1) Against control, would you always play a spell when they tap out? Suppose they are at 12 or 8 life and they tap out; you have only a Boros Charm in your hand. Is there any instance where you would not play it, because the information given is more important than ensuring the spell is not countered?
2) Against creature decks, I was trying to think through the "algorithms" we should go through to make the optimum plays. By default we should I imagine harass the opponent directly, unless we calculate that we are going to lose a damage race. However, once we see that things are not in our favor, how do we go about thinking through the adjustments? It becomes very complex, what with our options to play creatures and block, and then continue to fire spells at the opponent or support our creatures against larger adversaries. So my question is, how to arrange these complex thoughts into something we can analyze well?
3) Against larger creatures (toughness 4 or more), what is the usual approach? Make chump blocks and continue to assault the opponent? I am thinking of cards such as Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher here.
I do belive that the worst drawback of the Kettle that it's activation cost equal tree. So it has no synergy with the main deck forcing us to play with open nana. Moreover, wast amount of our games we play on 2 wich makes the Shrine irrelivant.
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DnT! And I'll win the fight
DnT! I'm a power-load
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This is my current deck list. I’ve played it in a couple FNMs (well one was a Wednesday) to 6-1 so far. The only change I’ve made was cutting a singleton of Young Pyromancer for main deck Molten rain. I was playing mardu pyromancer but decided I wanted a faster clock. I’ve opted for this over Boros as Kholaghan’s Command is just amazing in the meta and between it and Bedlam gives the deck reach it wouldn’t normally have. The deck’s manabase does make turn two slightly less consistant to have RR but keeps from getting locked out of green by Field of Ruin in sideboarded game.
The only thing I’ve lost to is Geist of Saint Traft turn three followed by Steel of the Godhead turn four in back to back games against Bant spirits. Granted I’ve only played a handful of matches and many were close, but I feel happy taking this to the SCG Open this weekend.
The only sideboard slot I’m unsure of is Collective Brutality. I had dreadbore in this slot, but most resolved planeswalkers are too late, with the exception of Karn. I like Brutality for the mirror and to kill Forge tenders and Kor Firewalkers.
The only games where Shrine can be worth it, are the games where it's better for us just to race and the opponent gets stronger every turn that passes. Shrine belongs in a WR Prison deck as a wincon, not in Burn.
I'm gonna be a bit critical here. Feel free to ignore my thoughts if you feel they're too harsh, but it's all out of love I swear
If what you really want is a faster clock, I'm not sure you want to keep Bedlam Reveler. In fact, I'm sceptical of the card being worth it in a burn deck. You can't cast him until 5 or 6 instants/sorceries passed by, which means even in a best case scenario he doesn't get out until turn 4. Every creature you cast will not help you in any way to cast the reveler and will leave him to clog your hand longer and sometime for the whole game. Furthermore, our opponent should already be at death's door by turn 4, which mean an additional burn spell could actually do a better job than him.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like it's a fantastic card. But it's too slow for burn. You can't be part burn/part Mardu Pyromancer. You have to commit to one or the other, and if you want to commit to burn, I feel like Bedlam reveler has to be cut.
The other one I don't feel like it should be here is lavaclaw reaches. Not only is this a land that enters tapped, but you need three other land just for it to be a 2/2 creature. It's too slow, and it slows your other plays, and speed is close to everything important in burn. In fact, you'll win/Lose most of your game before even reaching a fourth land.
Another thing is red mana is of upmost importance in burn. Basic nonmountains and shocks without Red (glaring at Overgrown tomb here) are usually a big no-no and I'd recomment just running more fetches/Stomping ground/Blood crypt instead.
As for the sideboard, I don't think collective brutality is that great in burn either. I went against the recommendations made to me and gave it a try in my rakdos burn, but it's not that great in burn. The primer actually puts it bluntly but truthfully, its usually a 2 damage Lightning helix, and that's not good. You rarely want to use the other modes without escalating (Aside from killing Kor Firewalker) and escalating means discarding cards, and aside from extra land (Which we don't have a lot, like 1 MAX), I don't want to discard anything. If what you really want is something to kill the Kor firewalker, look at Fatal push, Reality hemorrhage and Pyrite spellbomb instead.
Again, great card, just not the right deck for it. Then again, with Bedlam reveler it's pretty good, but now we'd be running two cards in a deck that don't really want either.
Just my two cents. Rest of the deck seem pretty solid. Really dig the Kolaghan's command & Blackcleave cliffs. Actually wish I got myself a couple of those before the price spike
I wouldn't ask for thoughts if I just wanted you to agree with me. I suppose I should have specified that I wanted a faster clock than Mardu pyromancer, not other burn decks. In the games I've played, bedlam does sometimes get stuck in you hand, but he enables you to refuel in match-ups where you've been made to discard a lot, which has come up multiple times with jund being more popular. I have lost one game where if he had been a burn spell I would have won, but I've won multiple games due to him drawing multiple ones. I definitely don't recommend playing more than two though.
I can see how brutality is iffy in the deck. As I don't run as many fetches, I tend to have excess land more often than most burn decks. That being said, I like the suggestion of pyrite spellbomb or reality hemorrhage as they both can deal damage and win the game if the intended target never turns up.
I may switch out Lavaclaw reaches for another basic Mountain. I originally wanted raging ravine in that spot (which is even higher to activate) but couldn't get any. In seven matches activating only mattered once and it likely wasn't needed. I want to go down to 19 lands, perhaps I'll cut it for a manamorphose. The overgrown will either become a fetch or basic I think.
Lucky for me I started building Pyromancer before the pro tour. I was only short 2 Bedlam's (which quadrupled in price) so not too wallet breaking.
Manamorphose could be the card justifying your Bedlam reveler actually. Cantrips alone don't usually make it into burn, but if it just so happen that one has added utility (Getting Bedlam Reveler out faster) it could work. Then again, it feels like those cards would go way better in the mardu pyromancer build then they would the burn build. If your goal is to make Mardu-pyromancer faster, I'm pretty sure you've already achieved that goal, but there's just so much speed you can bring to a somewhat midrange-y deck.
1) Against control, would you always play a spell when they tap out? Suppose they are at 12 or 8 life and they tap out; you have only a Boros Charm in your hand. Is there any instance where you would not play it, because the information given is more important than ensuring the spell is not countered?
2) Against creature decks, I was trying to think through the "algorithms" we should go through to make the optimum plays. By default we should I imagine harass the opponent directly, unless we calculate that we are going to lose a damage race. However, once we see that things are not in our favor, how do we go about thinking through the adjustments? It becomes very complex, what with our options to play creatures and block, and then continue to fire spells at the opponent or support our creatures against larger adversaries. So my question is, how to arrange these complex thoughts into something we can analyze well?
3) Against larger creatures (toughness 4 or more), what is the usual approach? Make chump blocks and continue to assault the opponent? I am thinking of cards such as Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher here.
1. I definitely cast as much as I can when they are tapped out. The only time I wouldn't is if I'm down to Skullcrack/AC only and need to protect against lifegain. It's just a matter of taking whatever they'll give you, and tapping out is giving you a lot.
2. I tend to evaluate what I think I can handle getting hit with repeatedly and what I can't and deal with things accordingly. That might lead to me letting things live too long sometimes, but there's also the second issue diverting Bolts to creatures too much is just gaining them 3 life at a time. Eventually, I just look at the board and my hand and decide that the only option for winning is to ignore the board and hope my next few draws get there.
3. I basically ignore Smasher unless I can get some kind of Blaze+Swift+discard land to kill it. If you can Path or creature+Blaze TKS, you're in good shape because of getting to draw a card. Otherwise, I'll just use my creatures as fogs on big creatures like that.
This is my current deck list. I’ve played it in a couple FNMs (well one was a Wednesday) to 6-1 so far. The only change I’ve made was cutting a singleton of Young Pyromancer for main deck Molten rain. I was playing mardu pyromancer but decided I wanted a faster clock. I’ve opted for this over Boros as Kholaghan’s Command is just amazing in the meta and between it and Bedlam gives the deck reach it wouldn’t normally have. The deck’s manabase does make turn two slightly less consistant to have RR but keeps from getting locked out of green by Field of Ruin in sideboarded game.
The only thing I’ve lost to is Geist of Saint Traft turn three followed by Steel of the Godhead turn four in back to back games against Bant spirits. Granted I’ve only played a handful of matches and many were close, but I feel happy taking this to the SCG Open this weekend.
The only sideboard slot I’m unsure of is Collective Brutality. I had dreadbore in this slot, but most resolved planeswalkers are too late, with the exception of Karn. I like Brutality for the mirror and to kill Forge tenders and Kor Firewalkers.
Thoughts?
I don't think that Bedlam Reveler is what Burn wants, because it's a late game card at a time when Burn just needs to draw another spell. Lavaclaw Reaches should definitely not have a spot here, because Burn can't afford ETB tapped on T1 and T2.
MisterMuffin I want to share you that I thought about last days of playtesting Rakdos. This is the current list I run. Keep in mind that this Saturday I have an Open 140 players and I want to bring Rakdos list this time, because I fck the meta.
(I'm very sorry I'm on my phone so I give you the link instead) http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck?ref=569919&decklanglocal=eng
So. I tested for many hours your version land hate. I really think that is funny however I do not find that competitive due to the potential of cont ground to be pretty a deaf card later in game. By not playing Sulfurous springs I guess it is the version I would go however because it just combines the strengths of Rakdos.
So talking about my list. I am certain that Rakdos is faster than Boros and may be better and under the radar. The deck has 30 drop-1. That is insane ! 18 is the most that Rakdos can afford to play and this is an upside over Boros.
Gonti's machinations (gm) is a card that everybody say is bad and I am quite agree with that because we need some support to works it as a helix. Sulfurous springs fix that ! It is a budget version of Black leave cliffs and for days I'm testing now it is a very good replacement because it allows to enable at wish energy faster that cause next Gm drawer to be a helix for one mana consistently. The downside is less important for two reason: we have fetches to catch Blood crypt to take no damage or less damages from land, then deck is faster.
This deck is basically the same as Boros, just for one mana less. There are 2 flexibles slots. I do not know what should use those slots honestly.
Grim lavamancer is not good in the current meta because he eats every removals while doing anything. This is typically the card that is win by itself if unchecked but this is not the case actually so I would not see any copy over the 75 because it is a bad topdeck.
Shard volley may be an issue. With 18 lands I am worried that this deck can afford only one copy, not two.
Thunderous wrath has 13% chance to be a deaf card. It is the definition of "high risk, high awards". However in this deck I would believe that its downside is less relevant because half of the deck costs one mana ! Mull to 6 you will have the same explosive hand even at one mana. That is 13%. If you draw it, it becomes, more in Rakdos than Boros, one of the best blast in the whole game. It really steals every games when you miracle this. This is why I would give a shot here, in Rakdos. However if you are not agree please tell me what would be your suggestion.
Sideboard.
Dragons claw against burn and storm
Exquisite firecraft ad it shows be very strong against blue decks.
Terminate over Go for the throat or Fatal push. I often want to remove some artifact creature and GftT do not do that. Terminate has an upside printed on it event it do not work unfortunately against Finks. Fatal push can not find every targets I want and requires fetches that Searing blaze are already bored me about. Dreadbore is fantastic but, man that is a sorcery it can not answer to creature land etc. I guess terminate is the best.
Searing blood is like an upgrade to Self-inflicted wound.
Tainted remedy. I saw Atarka's command deck running 2 other antu-lifefain card in side. I pick that idea with the upside of Black: deal back damage from his regain life. Bad position for opponent. This card is really strong. Why I do not choose Rain of Gore is thank to elconquistador1985's anaalysics that relates Wurmcoil's engine and Kalitas to be the most life link creatures played. I see last Open and I suspect on this one to see those creatures heavily played in the sideboard of Tron and BG decks so I think that taking the risk is 3 mana spell may be rewarded this time.
Swamp. Ponza was very popular last Open 140 players and now with BBE, blood moon are more popular. Get me wrong but I honestly think to put main deck a swamp. At less I can put in in the sideboard. Last open I just died on turn 2 blood moon. This time it would not happens.
I want to win and on my test I continue to see positive ratio of a lot of hours spent on Rakdos version. Please give me your opinion about what I would miss, what I have wrong or any upgrade U can do.
I feel always ashamed to play a meta list on big event. Let's shape those guys that play a meta list on Open.
Be sure I would add my report of that event, in Quebec City. 2 weeks ago I finished 51th on 140 players. I lost to mull 4 with 0 lands opened against burn mirror, and 9 lands on turn 5 while fetching 4 turns in a row. Lost two times against ponza because Utopia+trinisphere+lifegain and Utopia+blood moon+ lifegain. Then lost affinity with God start.
Edit : I tested athemancer there. For 3 mana you deal most time between 2 to 4 damages and have a 2/2. I guess that is not a good solution.
Thank you in advance for your attention guys. You are the best
It's nice to see that people are playing around with Rakdos, but in my opinion, it's not as good as Boros. Clearly you know this and you are probably playing this for fun or to surprise people. I'll just go over your card choices and what I think about them.
You say Thunderous Wrath is a high risk high rewards kind of card. However, the odds are against you in this case. Your ideal game will last about 4-5 turns, so you will draw that many cards in a given game. That means that Thunderous Wrath has to be one of those cards. I guess you can see why these odds are stacked against you, because you start with 7 cards in hand, so you are more likely to start with it in hand than to draw it for its miracle cost. It will hurt you more often than you want. It gives you 2 extra damage when it works, but 3 less damage when it's a dead card in your hand and it could have been a burn spell. I thought about it, but when you look at the odds, it's pretty obvious that it's a trash card in the deck.
Dragon's Claw is sweet. It so good against Burn, and it doesn't get removed the same way Kor Firewalker get removed. But I think the latter is a better option, but because of your color constraints, go for it. Don't play it against storm though. The deck can just go overboard and storm way off. I'm not one hundred percent sure on how this works in the matchup though, I could be wrong about this particular point.
Exquisite Firecraft is fine. Bring it against Eldrazi Tron for Chalice of the Void as well and bring it against Death's Shadow too. There was a discussion about this further back on the forum.
If Rakdos is really is fast as you think, removal might not be entirely necessary. Unfortunately, you don't really have any good removal options in these colors. Terminate is your best option. Dreadbore is just too spicy though.
I don't know about Tainted Remedy. I can't really speak my mind on this subject though, I really have no experience with cards like this.
I hope my advice was of use to you. I'm really interested in seeing how competitively viable rakdos can be, so keep posting your results!
( Cool, MisterMuffin and you are from Quebec. I'm from Montreal myself.)
Now that Jund is running Bloodbraid Elf do you think it’s worthwhile for us to re-consider our sideboarding options?
Specifically, I’m starting to wonder if Searing effects have a lot more use now that they’re running 4 more solid targets for them. I’m not sure it’s worthwhile to go all the way towards running more than 4 but bringing in Searing Blood to replace the Searing Blaze (running a 2:2 or 1:3 split of Blazes to Bloods) might be more useful than dropping down to 0 or 1 Blaze. Their main targets are all 2 health so having an easier to cast spell seems better, although I guess there are some occasions you could catch a 3 health Goyf with a Blaze as well.
Man oh man, Do I disagree hard with the idea that Boris is the better Burn deck. It's the more popular for sure, but that's all.just based off of confirmation biases. They are both great for different reasons, But after 6 years running both decks I have found Rakdos to have better MUs overall, than Boros, but Boros to have better targeted MUs. For instance if you're expecting heavy burn environments Rakdos is a pretty bad choice, as it's just a total dog in that match (mind you I have some spicy tech for it, but I get that it's not for everyone) But in a wide open field, you want the least splash damage and you want the fastest clock and Rakdos has that in spades. Also, Rakdos Charm is just such a hugely versatile tool; that White just doesn't have anything close to offer, that can make some nearly unwinable MUs almost favorable.
I full on expect the grief over the position, but like I said, this comes from 6 years exclusively playing burn in modern in every iteration.
Imagine you play bolt, they play a counter, and you play Dash Hopes. They will never take 5 to avoid taking 3, so you counter their counter and you get 3 damage through. There's no difference between that and bolt-counter-bolt.
Imagine you're playing against some combo deck with a key card, you play Dash Hopes, they take 5, beat you anyway, and it's as if you did nothing.
Th goal to this spell is not to counterspell. It is to deal 5 damages for 2 manas. Do not be wrong on that.
2 downsides of this spell is its BB, then the ideal moment to use it to proprely deal 5 damages. Targetting a key-card is the best scenario, or punish him to play on curve because both modes are really punishing for him: see his turn anhilitaed meaning that he will take more burn without interaction possible, or deal 5 damages. This last point is tricky though because we use 2 manas for that. That is an outplay move.
But the goal of this spell is still to deal 5 damages for 2 manas, this is a full Tribal flames. You can not say this is a bad spell.
Every spells that deals huge damages have their downside: Thunderous wrath is its 13% to be a dead card, Tribal flames is to build arround it and take lot of self-damages, and this new Dash hopes that to have BB and be cleaver on its utilisation.
I am searching a way to fight infect and Bogles, like Deflecting palm. Because creature removal are bad against this kind of decks. Have you any idea ?
So you're worried about bogles and infect, and I take it you don't run White?
Ok, so infect shouldn't be something you worry about too much, they can be a turn faster, but on average are slower than burn (especially Rakdos) by a turn. The key to beating it consistently is to play the control until you have them exhausted, then take them out. Obviously this is null if you have the stone nuts; just go ham and hope they don't have the turn 2 or decide to block.
As for bogles, I'm gonna hand over a piece of my old tech, since I hate that deck and it's relevant again. Aura Barbs Is about as narrow as it gets and on top of that is the stone nuts against Bogles. I've killed many a bogles player through a leyline and facing down a 20+ powered lifelinker with them at over 12 life with this. It's horrible unless there are a ton of boggles decks roaming around (like there is right now) but when it's good (like right now ) it's sinfully good. I think I've done over 14 damage with it before. Happy hunting.
The problem with punisher effects is that it always ends up being whatever is worse for you. If you can maneuver them into a position where both options are bad, you're probably winning anyway, and would rather have a proactive card to end the game than a reactive card.
A few observations based on recent games I played...
1) Against lifelink creatures such as Wurmcoil Engine...even if you do not have a Skullcrack or Atarkas Command, you can chump block with a creature and then kill it with a burn spell to avoid your opponent from gaining any life. I won a game in this manner- opponent at 5 life with Wurmcoil Engine, facing double Goblin Guide. I have Lightning Bolt and a land in hand. He attacks, I chump and Bolt my Goblin Guide. Next turn I draw a Lava Spike and hit him for 5 and the win.
2) I am finding Atarka's Command to be a very good spell, as recommended by others. It functions like Skullcrack but also leads to blazing fast wins in conjunction with creatures (I won on turn 3 due to this recently).
3) Considering why I lose matches, the main reasons (in order) are: life gain, creature beat downs and enchantments. Therefore, I changed my sideboard accordingly to include 2x Skullcrack (to support the 4x Atarka's Command in the main deck), 2x Deflecting Palm [take that Reality Smasher/Wurmcoil Engine!] and the usual 4x Destructive Revelry. I removed graveyard hate as I concur that those decks are usually slower than we are to begin with.
Th goal to this spell is not to counterspell. It is to deal 5 damages for 2 manas. Do not be wrong on that.
2 downsides of this spell is its BB, then the ideal moment to use it to proprely deal 5 damages. Targetting a key-card is the best scenario, or punish him to play on curve because both modes are really punishing for him: see his turn anhilitaed meaning that he will take more burn without interaction possible, or deal 5 damages. This last point is tricky though because we use 2 manas for that. That is an outplay move.
But the goal of this spell is still to deal 5 damages for 2 manas, this is a full Tribal flames. You can not say this is a bad spell.
Every spells that deals huge damages have their downside: Thunderous wrath is its 13% to be a dead card, Tribal flames is to build arround it and take lot of self-damages, and this new Dash hopes that to have BB and be cleaver on its utilisation.
But I want to ask you a question: what about Mana clash ?
I am searching a way to fight infect and Bogles, like Deflecting palm. Because creature removal are bad against this kind of decks. Have you any idea ?
Dash Hopes won't be dealing 5, either. You are overvaluing the part of the spell that you like and ignoring the fact that the most likely result is that it counters a spell and does nothing to further your game plan. I can very easily say that Dash Hopes is a bad card. Tribal Flames requires a very painful setup to get it going, and I'd prefer Lightning Helix, personally.
Thunderous Wrath is a lot more than 13% to be a dead card. It's more like 50% or more to be a dead card. That card is also bad.
Infect should be a cakewalk. Creature removal is VERY good against Infect. Play control, kill creatures, and it's an easy matchup.
So, no thoughts on Searing effects against Jund I take it?
Since there’s been a lot of discussion regarding various mixes of green and black in Burn (a lot of it local meta driven it seems as well), I’m curious if it may make sense for us to determine some general high level heuristics for the types of metas that each archetype of burn is strongest. If we can come to a general consensus on that, it could be really useful for the top post to help give players a sense of what type of build to run in their own local meta.
I've went 3-1 yesterday with the deck and was very satisfied with how Boros is resilient. A couple of years ago, I was bouncing between Mardu and Boros and felt that Bump in the Night was great, but nowadays, it isn't as good as back then. I feel Mardu has taken a step back : my incentive to play the deck was Rain of Gore and Rakdos Charm against Twin and to hose some decks. Now, White has better sideboard options especially for my meta : Stony Silence for Affinity, Rest in Peace for Storm, etc.
On Dash Hope, I don't think it's great as ElConquistador said : combo will take 5 and some other decks will accept the counterspell and claw their way through it. On the Bogles subject, Favor of the Mighty is the best tech (and not that rough on mana). Just food for thought because I ran it a couple of years ago and it was fantastic!
1) Against control, would you always play a spell when they tap out? Suppose they are at 12 or 8 life and they tap out; you have only a Boros Charm in your hand. Is there any instance where you would not play it, because the information given is more important than ensuring the spell is not countered?
2) Against creature decks, I was trying to think through the "algorithms" we should go through to make the optimum plays. By default we should I imagine harass the opponent directly, unless we calculate that we are going to lose a damage race. However, once we see that things are not in our favor, how do we go about thinking through the adjustments? It becomes very complex, what with our options to play creatures and block, and then continue to fire spells at the opponent or support our creatures against larger adversaries. So my question is, how to arrange these complex thoughts into something we can analyze well?
3) Against larger creatures (toughness 4 or more), what is the usual approach? Make chump blocks and continue to assault the opponent? I am thinking of cards such as Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher here.
I'm adamant that Shrine of Burning Rage is unplayably awful.
Before bbe I think it had possibilities. But with the number of answers to shrine increasing so much this is absolutely true.
DnT! I'm a power-load
DnT! Watch me Explode
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Bedlam Reveler
Spells
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Searing Blaze
4 Skullcrack
4 Rift Bolt
3 Kolaghan’s Command
1 Molten Rain
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
3 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Collective Brutality
1 Molten Rain
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Destructive Revelery
1 Shattering Spree
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Rampaging Ferocidon
This is my current deck list. I’ve played it in a couple FNMs (well one was a Wednesday) to 6-1 so far. The only change I’ve made was cutting a singleton of Young Pyromancer for main deck Molten rain. I was playing mardu pyromancer but decided I wanted a faster clock. I’ve opted for this over Boros as Kholaghan’s Command is just amazing in the meta and between it and Bedlam gives the deck reach it wouldn’t normally have. The deck’s manabase does make turn two slightly less consistant to have RR but keeps from getting locked out of green by Field of Ruin in sideboarded game.
The only thing I’ve lost to is Geist of Saint Traft turn three followed by Steel of the Godhead turn four in back to back games against Bant spirits. Granted I’ve only played a handful of matches and many were close, but I feel happy taking this to the SCG Open this weekend.
The only sideboard slot I’m unsure of is Collective Brutality. I had dreadbore in this slot, but most resolved planeswalkers are too late, with the exception of Karn. I like Brutality for the mirror and to kill Forge tenders and Kor Firewalkers.
Thoughts?
If what you really want is a faster clock, I'm not sure you want to keep Bedlam Reveler. In fact, I'm sceptical of the card being worth it in a burn deck. You can't cast him until 5 or 6 instants/sorceries passed by, which means even in a best case scenario he doesn't get out until turn 4. Every creature you cast will not help you in any way to cast the reveler and will leave him to clog your hand longer and sometime for the whole game. Furthermore, our opponent should already be at death's door by turn 4, which mean an additional burn spell could actually do a better job than him.
Don't get me wrong, I feel like it's a fantastic card. But it's too slow for burn. You can't be part burn/part Mardu Pyromancer. You have to commit to one or the other, and if you want to commit to burn, I feel like Bedlam reveler has to be cut.
The other one I don't feel like it should be here is lavaclaw reaches. Not only is this a land that enters tapped, but you need three other land just for it to be a 2/2 creature. It's too slow, and it slows your other plays, and speed is close to everything important in burn. In fact, you'll win/Lose most of your game before even reaching a fourth land.
Another thing is red mana is of upmost importance in burn. Basic nonmountains and shocks without Red (glaring at Overgrown tomb here) are usually a big no-no and I'd recomment just running more fetches/Stomping ground/Blood crypt instead.
As for the sideboard, I don't think collective brutality is that great in burn either. I went against the recommendations made to me and gave it a try in my rakdos burn, but it's not that great in burn. The primer actually puts it bluntly but truthfully, its usually a 2 damage Lightning helix, and that's not good. You rarely want to use the other modes without escalating (Aside from killing Kor Firewalker) and escalating means discarding cards, and aside from extra land (Which we don't have a lot, like 1 MAX), I don't want to discard anything. If what you really want is something to kill the Kor firewalker, look at Fatal push, Reality hemorrhage and Pyrite spellbomb instead.
Again, great card, just not the right deck for it. Then again, with Bedlam reveler it's pretty good, but now we'd be running two cards in a deck that don't really want either.
Just my two cents. Rest of the deck seem pretty solid. Really dig the Kolaghan's command & Blackcleave cliffs. Actually wish I got myself a couple of those before the price spike
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
I can see how brutality is iffy in the deck. As I don't run as many fetches, I tend to have excess land more often than most burn decks. That being said, I like the suggestion of pyrite spellbomb or reality hemorrhage as they both can deal damage and win the game if the intended target never turns up.
I may switch out Lavaclaw reaches for another basic Mountain. I originally wanted raging ravine in that spot (which is even higher to activate) but couldn't get any. In seven matches activating only mattered once and it likely wasn't needed. I want to go down to 19 lands, perhaps I'll cut it for a manamorphose. The overgrown will either become a fetch or basic I think.
Lucky for me I started building Pyromancer before the pro tour. I was only short 2 Bedlam's (which quadrupled in price) so not too wallet breaking.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
1. I definitely cast as much as I can when they are tapped out. The only time I wouldn't is if I'm down to Skullcrack/AC only and need to protect against lifegain. It's just a matter of taking whatever they'll give you, and tapping out is giving you a lot.
2. I tend to evaluate what I think I can handle getting hit with repeatedly and what I can't and deal with things accordingly. That might lead to me letting things live too long sometimes, but there's also the second issue diverting Bolts to creatures too much is just gaining them 3 life at a time. Eventually, I just look at the board and my hand and decide that the only option for winning is to ignore the board and hope my next few draws get there.
3. I basically ignore Smasher unless I can get some kind of Blaze+Swift+discard land to kill it. If you can Path or creature+Blaze TKS, you're in good shape because of getting to draw a card. Otherwise, I'll just use my creatures as fogs on big creatures like that.
I don't think that Bedlam Reveler is what Burn wants, because it's a late game card at a time when Burn just needs to draw another spell. Lavaclaw Reaches should definitely not have a spot here, because Burn can't afford ETB tapped on T1 and T2.
It's nice to see that people are playing around with Rakdos, but in my opinion, it's not as good as Boros. Clearly you know this and you are probably playing this for fun or to surprise people. I'll just go over your card choices and what I think about them.
You say Thunderous Wrath is a high risk high rewards kind of card. However, the odds are against you in this case. Your ideal game will last about 4-5 turns, so you will draw that many cards in a given game. That means that Thunderous Wrath has to be one of those cards. I guess you can see why these odds are stacked against you, because you start with 7 cards in hand, so you are more likely to start with it in hand than to draw it for its miracle cost. It will hurt you more often than you want. It gives you 2 extra damage when it works, but 3 less damage when it's a dead card in your hand and it could have been a burn spell. I thought about it, but when you look at the odds, it's pretty obvious that it's a trash card in the deck.
Dragon's Claw is sweet. It so good against Burn, and it doesn't get removed the same way Kor Firewalker get removed. But I think the latter is a better option, but because of your color constraints, go for it. Don't play it against storm though. The deck can just go overboard and storm way off. I'm not one hundred percent sure on how this works in the matchup though, I could be wrong about this particular point.
Exquisite Firecraft is fine. Bring it against Eldrazi Tron for Chalice of the Void as well and bring it against Death's Shadow too. There was a discussion about this further back on the forum.
If Rakdos is really is fast as you think, removal might not be entirely necessary. Unfortunately, you don't really have any good removal options in these colors. Terminate is your best option. Dreadbore is just too spicy though.
I don't know about Tainted Remedy. I can't really speak my mind on this subject though, I really have no experience with cards like this.
I hope my advice was of use to you. I'm really interested in seeing how competitively viable rakdos can be, so keep posting your results!
( Cool, MisterMuffin and you are from Quebec. I'm from Montreal myself.)
Specifically, I’m starting to wonder if Searing effects have a lot more use now that they’re running 4 more solid targets for them. I’m not sure it’s worthwhile to go all the way towards running more than 4 but bringing in Searing Blood to replace the Searing Blaze (running a 2:2 or 1:3 split of Blazes to Bloods) might be more useful than dropping down to 0 or 1 Blaze. Their main targets are all 2 health so having an easier to cast spell seems better, although I guess there are some occasions you could catch a 3 health Goyf with a Blaze as well.
I full on expect the grief over the position, but like I said, this comes from 6 years exclusively playing burn in modern in every iteration.
The only punisher card I ever like is Vexing devil, and even with that it's only ever good enough turn 1 imo. I wouldn't run it.
Imagine you play bolt, they play a counter, and you play Dash Hopes. They will never take 5 to avoid taking 3, so you counter their counter and you get 3 damage through. There's no difference between that and bolt-counter-bolt.
Imagine you're playing against some combo deck with a key card, you play Dash Hopes, they take 5, beat you anyway, and it's as if you did nothing.
So you're worried about bogles and infect, and I take it you don't run White?
Ok, so infect shouldn't be something you worry about too much, they can be a turn faster, but on average are slower than burn (especially Rakdos) by a turn. The key to beating it consistently is to play the control until you have them exhausted, then take them out. Obviously this is null if you have the stone nuts; just go ham and hope they don't have the turn 2 or decide to block.
As for bogles, I'm gonna hand over a piece of my old tech, since I hate that deck and it's relevant again. Aura Barbs Is about as narrow as it gets and on top of that is the stone nuts against Bogles. I've killed many a bogles player through a leyline and facing down a 20+ powered lifelinker with them at over 12 life with this. It's horrible unless there are a ton of boggles decks roaming around (like there is right now) but when it's good (like right now
1) Against lifelink creatures such as Wurmcoil Engine...even if you do not have a Skullcrack or Atarkas Command, you can chump block with a creature and then kill it with a burn spell to avoid your opponent from gaining any life. I won a game in this manner- opponent at 5 life with Wurmcoil Engine, facing double Goblin Guide. I have Lightning Bolt and a land in hand. He attacks, I chump and Bolt my Goblin Guide. Next turn I draw a Lava Spike and hit him for 5 and the win.
2) I am finding Atarka's Command to be a very good spell, as recommended by others. It functions like Skullcrack but also leads to blazing fast wins in conjunction with creatures (I won on turn 3 due to this recently).
3) Considering why I lose matches, the main reasons (in order) are: life gain, creature beat downs and enchantments. Therefore, I changed my sideboard accordingly to include 2x Skullcrack (to support the 4x Atarka's Command in the main deck), 2x Deflecting Palm [take that Reality Smasher/Wurmcoil Engine!] and the usual 4x Destructive Revelry. I removed graveyard hate as I concur that those decks are usually slower than we are to begin with.
Dash Hopes won't be dealing 5, either. You are overvaluing the part of the spell that you like and ignoring the fact that the most likely result is that it counters a spell and does nothing to further your game plan. I can very easily say that Dash Hopes is a bad card. Tribal Flames requires a very painful setup to get it going, and I'd prefer Lightning Helix, personally.
Thunderous Wrath is a lot more than 13% to be a dead card. It's more like 50% or more to be a dead card. That card is also bad.
Infect should be a cakewalk. Creature removal is VERY good against Infect. Play control, kill creatures, and it's an easy matchup.
Since there’s been a lot of discussion regarding various mixes of green and black in Burn (a lot of it local meta driven it seems as well), I’m curious if it may make sense for us to determine some general high level heuristics for the types of metas that each archetype of burn is strongest. If we can come to a general consensus on that, it could be really useful for the top post to help give players a sense of what type of build to run in their own local meta.
On Dash Hope, I don't think it's great as ElConquistador said : combo will take 5 and some other decks will accept the counterspell and claw their way through it. On the Bogles subject, Favor of the Mighty is the best tech (and not that rough on mana). Just food for thought because I ran it a couple of years ago and it was fantastic!
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R