I have some matchup questions for matchups like gb tron, mono green tron and titan shift with a list similiar to mike flores does his list have a good matchup against those decks since his list is meant for creature decks like humans and affinity?
I'm not exactly sure if giving the opponent a choice is the best way forward for burn. Giving them no choice forces unanswered threats (e.g. Eidolon) to snowball into bigger problems 1 turn onwards. Takes some life and a trade, usually, to deal with no-choice threats. Ranked in decreasing order:
- Eidolon. Punishment mechanic: low cost fast decks. Nearly everything including big mana.
- Harsh mentor. Punishment mechanic: activated abilities. Counters company, lantern control (getting really popular, nearly tier 1), tron, affinity. Good for burn decks that go light on white (e.g. Rakdos, or mono red)
- Ash Zealot. Punishment mechanic: flashback. Storm (let's get that past-in-flames going), BR hollow one (yeah I have choice words for that deck), snapcaster mage based decks
There must be others, but we have a few options available as answers to the general tier-1 meta, depending on the season which obviously gives the opponent no choice. We've even unsuccessfully, of all things, tried mana tithe before.... (yuck)
I think you're confusing "punisher mechanic" with "mechanic that is punishing in nature". Eidolon, Mentor, and Zealot punish you for doing something, but they aren't "punisher" cards. The punisher mechanic is what Browbeat, Vexing Devil, etc. have where the text is basically "Unless a player/your opponent does X, do Y". Eidolon is not in the same class of cards, even though you could argue that it says "Unless a player kills this, they get rekt". If Eidolon is analogous to anything, it's original Thalia or maybe Trinisphere, where Eidolon is a life tax rather than a mana tax.
In general, the punisher mechanic is not something you want. It's always what your opponent wants for you rather than what you want or need. For a punisher card to be playable, the choices would have to be ridiculously good for you such that you don't actually care what they pick or that always forces the same outcome, for instance "R: Unless target player has ~ deal 4 to them, ~ deals 3 to them.", which would be functionally another Lava Spike even though it has the punisher mechanic. Such a card doesn't exist.
Thank you. My english can be clumsy at times (not my first language); apologies if I used words in the wrong context
should be an easy matchup, thay have a painful manabase and a not particularly fast clock. collective brutality can be problematic but we are favored. good cards to bring in can be searing blood and helix, cutting some creatures because they have all the removal
I've seen several recent lists on MTGTop8 running 3 or 4 SB Molten Rain - I've always thought it was too slow; what might the reason be for it being included now? Is it useful in the current meta?
Also, I've seen several lists dropping Kor Firewalker entirely - has Burn dropped that much in the meta that having 2 or 3 extra SB slots might be more beneficial? EG More space for Searing Blood?
Although im new to this deck I find this sideboard to be adequate. It is an all around sideboard that ive tried to make but any advice is great.
I consider my deck boros bc i only have DRev as my only green as many others have. I believe the ability to hit enchantments is a must at this time as the as foretold deck will be seen more and more as it is on the rise and price spikes as well as videos of iterations of the deck have been on the rise. Not to mention it helps vs leyline as we know.
I have found molten rain is pretty useful IF you do draw it.
The card that is least useful is rest in peace simply bc it does 0 damage but it shuts down dredge and any goyfs/delve/flashback you may see so thats my reasoning on that.
1x Chained to the Rocks
2x Deflecting Palm
3x Destructive Revelry
2x searing blood
1x Kor Firewalker
2x Molten Rain
2x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
Any advice is great. Again this is just an all around sideboard for the current meta not just my local meta
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Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
As i mentionded in my post just above i think molten rain is pretty good only if you draw it early enough and are able to cast it. But in the current meta it is good bc tron is everywhere and we need anything we can that fits into thia deck to fight it but thats my opinion. I have found when playing against tron that there are times that we cannot race and they come online turn 3-4. Thats where i believe molten rain helps us greatly.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Thank you. My english can be clumsy at times (not my first language); apologies if I used words in the wrong context
I genuinely had no idea that english wasn't your first language, so your english is solid. People being confused about what "punisher mechanic" means isn't unusual, so I was just trying to set the record straight on it.
Although im new to this deck I find this sideboard to be adequate. It is an all around sideboard that ive tried to make but any advice is great.
I consider my deck boros bc i only have DRev as my only green as many others have. I believe the ability to hit enchantments is a must at this time as the as foretold deck will be seen more and more as it is on the rise and price spikes as well as videos of iterations of the deck have been on the rise. Not to mention it helps vs leyline as we know.
I have found molten rain is pretty useful IF you do draw it.
The card that is least useful is rest in peace simply bc it does 0 damage but it shuts down dredge and any goyfs/delve/flashback you may see so thats my reasoning on that.
1x Chained to the Rocks
2x Deflecting Palm
3x Destructive Revelry
2x searing blood
1x Kor Firewalker
2x Molten Rain
2x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
I've decided to give Chained to the Rocks a shot before deciding if I'm playing it at SCG Columbus. I don't think I like it very much, but that's probably because I tried bringing it in against D&T and had dead cards in hand because of Ghost Quarter. I like 3-4 W removal spells, and I think there should at least 2 Paths in there, so this is also reasonable.
I think 2 Palm is reasonable. I'm personally playing 2 Searing Blood because small creature decks are big. 3 artifact/enchantment removal is reasonable as well, though I'm on the Smashes + 1 Spree plan personally. I'm not sure 1 Kor Firewalker is the right number, and I think you should probably play either zero or 2. 2 RiP is fine if that's the graveyard hate you like best, since I think the argument between Relic and RiP comes down to personal preference anyway.
I'm not sold on Molten Rain. I'd be higher on it if Jund/Junk were big portions of the meta and you could use it there to lock them out of a color while incidentally picking on Tron decks. Instead, I think you're better off just racing Gx Tron (which is relatively easy to do) and Eldrazi Tron is just a bad matchup for us. I'd play something else in this spot, personally.
I'd cut Molten Rain if you want an extra Firewalker, not Searing Blood. I think Searing effects are very important right now because of small creature decks.
ETron is a bad matchup, but blowing up a land on t3 at the earliest after they are already ahead on board isn't actually that helpful. In situations where molten rain shuts them down, they probably had a slow hand that you could have raced with regular burn spells (which is really the only kind of ETron game burn is going to win).
If they have a chalice you're up a creek without a paddle, regardless of what molten rain does because it doesn't matter if they can't play anything again until t5 if you can't play anything ever.
They might have never sided it in even though they played it. A list having a card in it doesn't mean they even used the card much less mean that the card was essential to their success.
I would only want it against things like Jund/Junk and Tron decks. I'd never bring it in against blue decks because tapping out for it to have it countered is really bad. Jund/Junk aren't big like they used to be and you can just race GX Tron and win most of the time. It's not enough to swing the tide against Eldrazi Tron.
I often found when playing against regular tron that molten rain is insufficient, i honestly rather just try to race with burn spells and goblin guide/swiftspear against them. I would probably also bring in path to clear a wurm coil engine so i can at least attack with guide/eidolon for at least one more turn which is often huge. As for eldrazi tron just going to bring in deflecting palms, paths, artifact hate(chalice and collar) and then hope that they have a slow start every time.
I hadn't gotten to play much paper magic in a while, and it turns out I either need to play Wear//Tear or play green locally because Leyline is everywhere.
I've played with this list this week at small events.
Mono-W Eldrazi Taxes (1-2): Game 1 was a reasonable game but I couldn't draw a Boros Charm and lost with my opponent at 4. Game 2 starts with a T0 Leyline but my opponent wasn't hitting land drops and got there with Goblin Guides, even though I had no business winning that game. Game 3 starts with a Leyline and it ended the way the second game should have.
Mono-G Primal Command (2-0): The idea of the deck is to tap Nykthos for a lot, yadda yadda yadda Craterhoof Behemoth. After his opening turn of G1 was an Elvish Mystic, I decided to play Grim Lavamancer on T1 instead of Goblin Guide. A T2 Scooze ate a card but got Blazed on my turn, and Grim just ran away with it. Game 2 was similar, and I had the Skullcrack to answer the Thragtusk I knew was coming because of Goblin Guide triggers. I was able to use a Chained to the Rocks on an Arbor Elf, which felt great.
Titanshift (2-1): Enchantment hate would have been helpful because he was on Prismatic Omen. I took minimal damage from my lands and was at 18 when he played Hour of Promise for 2 Valakuts and 4 triggers, he killed an Eidolon and sent 3 triggers upstairs. I won with Bolt-Charm because he was at 7. Game 2, I got down to 16 and he was at 13. I had a Guide and Swiftspear in play and decided to play double Bolt to take him to 2 with Guide+2 Prowess on Swiftspear, and that was a mistake. I should have waited a turn for that and used Deflecting Palm on a Valakut trigger, because Hour of Promise sent 4 triggers my way and then he played a Mountain for 2 more triggers to kill me. Game 3, I was at 19 and had a Swiftspear in play and he was at 10. He would have been able to do some shenanigans on his next turn, but Bolt-Charm-Swiftspear for the win.
RUG Midrange (2-0): Game 1 was a non-game, with my opponent sitting on one land and taking constant damage from Grim Lavamancer that he couldn't kill. Game 2 we both had land problems initially, but I was able to ride out Goblin Guide for a while. He cast a Blood Moon while I was loaded with white spells, but it didn't matter. Guide triggers had fed me information on Spell Snares, so I was trying to bait those with Lightning Helix and Boros Charm ahead of casting Eidolon. I got Eidolon to resolve when he was low on life, and he ended up dying to the Eidolon trigger for the Mana Leak he cast to counter a Skullcrack.
I'm going to the SCG Open next weekend, and I'm playing on playing RW without enchantment destruction. I haven't gotten to play it much, and I'm unsure of it. It feels great against T1 dorks, but it's horrendous in Ghost Quarter matchups where you want a creature exile effect. This part of my sideboard is locked in for next week. I'm still thinking about the other 3 slots, but it will probably be 2 Searing Blood and 1 Path or 1 CttR.
I feel going without enchantment hate is going to be tough I believe as foretold will be a thing in any upcoming events as well as more leylines but who knows Im just going off of hints like price spikes, deck building videos and stuff like that.
Good luck!!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Thank you. My english can be clumsy at times (not my first language); apologies if I used words in the wrong context
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Also, I've seen several lists dropping Kor Firewalker entirely - has Burn dropped that much in the meta that having 2 or 3 extra SB slots might be more beneficial? EG More space for Searing Blood?
I consider my deck boros bc i only have DRev as my only green as many others have. I believe the ability to hit enchantments is a must at this time as the as foretold deck will be seen more and more as it is on the rise and price spikes as well as videos of iterations of the deck have been on the rise. Not to mention it helps vs leyline as we know.
I have found molten rain is pretty useful IF you do draw it.
The card that is least useful is rest in peace simply bc it does 0 damage but it shuts down dredge and any goyfs/delve/flashback you may see so thats my reasoning on that.
1x Chained to the Rocks
2x Deflecting Palm
3x Destructive Revelry
2x searing blood
1x Kor Firewalker
2x Molten Rain
2x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
Any advice is great. Again this is just an all around sideboard for the current meta not just my local meta
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
I genuinely had no idea that english wasn't your first language, so your english is solid. People being confused about what "punisher mechanic" means isn't unusual, so I was just trying to set the record straight on it.
I've decided to give Chained to the Rocks a shot before deciding if I'm playing it at SCG Columbus. I don't think I like it very much, but that's probably because I tried bringing it in against D&T and had dead cards in hand because of Ghost Quarter. I like 3-4 W removal spells, and I think there should at least 2 Paths in there, so this is also reasonable.
I think 2 Palm is reasonable. I'm personally playing 2 Searing Blood because small creature decks are big. 3 artifact/enchantment removal is reasonable as well, though I'm on the Smashes + 1 Spree plan personally. I'm not sure 1 Kor Firewalker is the right number, and I think you should probably play either zero or 2. 2 RiP is fine if that's the graveyard hate you like best, since I think the argument between Relic and RiP comes down to personal preference anyway.
I'm not sold on Molten Rain. I'd be higher on it if Jund/Junk were big portions of the meta and you could use it there to lock them out of a color while incidentally picking on Tron decks. Instead, I think you're better off just racing Gx Tron (which is relatively easy to do) and Eldrazi Tron is just a bad matchup for us. I'd play something else in this spot, personally.
I can see what youre saying about the kor firewalkers i was actually running 2 and only one searing blood what do you think of that?
Instead of 2 searing blood and 1 firewalker I switch to 1 searing blood and 2 kor firewalker?
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
But perhaps youre right i may cut the firewalkers all together and go 3 searing blood
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
If they have a chalice you're up a creek without a paddle, regardless of what molten rain does because it doesn't matter if they can't play anything again until t5 if you can't play anything ever.
But then how do you explain these lists with 3-4 in side board doing so well? What other decks would it be good against?
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
I would only want it against things like Jund/Junk and Tron decks. I'd never bring it in against blue decks because tapping out for it to have it countered is really bad. Jund/Junk aren't big like they used to be and you can just race GX Tron and win most of the time. It's not enough to swing the tide against Eldrazi Tron.
Well i may take them iut and put in searing blood then thanks for the advice
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
I've played with this list this week at small events.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Boros Charm
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Mountain
4 Rift Bolt
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Searing Blaze
2 Skullcrack
4 Wooded Foothills
I played this sideboard one day:
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Searing Blood
1 Shattering Spree
2 Skullcrack
2 Smash to Smithereens
Went 1-2, losing 1-2 to an RW Burn list that played Leylines and 1-2 to a Troll Worship deck. I beat someone named "BYE".
And this sideboard another (knew Burn would be there in force, so put in Firewalkers).
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Shattering Spree
2 Skullcrack
3 Smash to Smithereens
Mono-W Eldrazi Taxes (1-2): Game 1 was a reasonable game but I couldn't draw a Boros Charm and lost with my opponent at 4. Game 2 starts with a T0 Leyline but my opponent wasn't hitting land drops and got there with Goblin Guides, even though I had no business winning that game. Game 3 starts with a Leyline and it ended the way the second game should have.
Mono-G Primal Command (2-0): The idea of the deck is to tap Nykthos for a lot, yadda yadda yadda Craterhoof Behemoth. After his opening turn of G1 was an Elvish Mystic, I decided to play Grim Lavamancer on T1 instead of Goblin Guide. A T2 Scooze ate a card but got Blazed on my turn, and Grim just ran away with it. Game 2 was similar, and I had the Skullcrack to answer the Thragtusk I knew was coming because of Goblin Guide triggers. I was able to use a Chained to the Rocks on an Arbor Elf, which felt great.
Titanshift (2-1): Enchantment hate would have been helpful because he was on Prismatic Omen. I took minimal damage from my lands and was at 18 when he played Hour of Promise for 2 Valakuts and 4 triggers, he killed an Eidolon and sent 3 triggers upstairs. I won with Bolt-Charm because he was at 7. Game 2, I got down to 16 and he was at 13. I had a Guide and Swiftspear in play and decided to play double Bolt to take him to 2 with Guide+2 Prowess on Swiftspear, and that was a mistake. I should have waited a turn for that and used Deflecting Palm on a Valakut trigger, because Hour of Promise sent 4 triggers my way and then he played a Mountain for 2 more triggers to kill me. Game 3, I was at 19 and had a Swiftspear in play and he was at 10. He would have been able to do some shenanigans on his next turn, but Bolt-Charm-Swiftspear for the win.
RUG Midrange (2-0): Game 1 was a non-game, with my opponent sitting on one land and taking constant damage from Grim Lavamancer that he couldn't kill. Game 2 we both had land problems initially, but I was able to ride out Goblin Guide for a while. He cast a Blood Moon while I was loaded with white spells, but it didn't matter. Guide triggers had fed me information on Spell Snares, so I was trying to bait those with Lightning Helix and Boros Charm ahead of casting Eidolon. I got Eidolon to resolve when he was low on life, and he ended up dying to the Eidolon trigger for the Mana Leak he cast to counter a Skullcrack.
I'm going to the SCG Open next weekend, and I'm playing on playing RW without enchantment destruction. I haven't gotten to play it much, and I'm unsure of it. It feels great against T1 dorks, but it's horrendous in Ghost Quarter matchups where you want a creature exile effect. This part of my sideboard is locked in for next week. I'm still thinking about the other 3 slots, but it will probably be 2 Searing Blood and 1 Path or 1 CttR.
2 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Shattering Spree
2 Skullcrack
3 Smash to Smithereens
Good luck!!
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB