Hey all. Playing Naya burn this weekend at the Cincy Open. I recently bought a pair of Ensnaring Bridges, so I’ve decided to add them to my SB. Now I’m trying to decide what I should cut. Here’s what I’m thinking:
3x Path
3x Destructive Revelry
2x Grafdigger’s Cage
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Deflecting Palm
2x Stony Silence
1x Rest In Peace
As you can see, I cut 2x Kor Firewalkers. I feel like the meta has been shifting lately and burn is not as popular. Thoughts on this? Thought about cutting Stony Silence also.
FYI, my main board is pretty standard (12 creatures, 28 spells, 20 lands)
Round 1: Burn Mirror. Game 1, he came out of the gates with Goblin Guide, managed to searing blaze my Guide, and kept drawing gas.
Game 2: In: 2 Firewalker, 2 Path, 2 Lavamancer, 2 Searing Blood. Out: 2 Searing Blaze, 4 Boros Charm, 2 Rift Bolt. I dropped a turn 2 firewalker, and gained just enough life to keep off lethal.
Game 3: In: 2 Rift Bolt, 2 Boros Charm, Out: 4 Eidolon. Nothing to fancy, I killed a few of his guys, he killed a few of mine. Ultimately, he drew a few more lands than I did.
Round 2: Burn Mirror. Game 1: Swift spear into Eidolon gave me a nice start. We both got to 3 lands, and I had him at 6. I Cast a Lava spike to drop him to 3, and passed with his 3 lands up. He cast Helix at end of turn and I cast helix in response.
Game 2: Same sideboard plan as game 3 above. He deflecting Palms a Boros charm which made me panic, but runs out of gas.
Round 3: GDS
Game 1: Between he and I, his life total gets down to 10. I go end of turn Skullcrack, lightning Bolt, untap with a lava spike in hand and need any 1-2 mana burn spell--got another skullcrack.
Game 2: In: 2 Path, 2 Relic. Guide into Eidolon got me going nicely. He kills the Eidolon, but I play a 2nd. I drive him down to 2 and Stubborn Denial is effectively turned off. 1 more for the good guys!
Round 4: Elves.
Game 1. Bolted his Mystic, T2, T3 Eidolon--keep him off his combo plays. He still hits collected company to put me into a mess.
Game 2: In: 2 Lavamancer, 2 Searing Blood, 1 Grafdiggers cage, Out: 4 Boros Charm, 1 Lavaspike. Searing Blaze on his Mystic on my 2nd turn, Eidolon on the 3rd turn--he had a very slow and awkward draw and It just a lot of EOT burn spells.
Game 3: In: 4 Boros Charm, out: 4 Eidolon
Fast starts on both sides, but he wasn't getting any of the payoff cards. He's at 6, I had a skullcrack and a land that I had just drawn. I needed that land or my next draw to be any burn card. I cast the skullcrack EoT, untap and draw...STOMPING GROUND. I thought about scooping, but figured I'd give him a chance to mess it up.
He has A llanoward Elf, 4 lands, Ezuri, an Elvish Visionary, and nettle Sentinel. I have a Swift Spear. He's at 3, I guess you could argue he's wanting to collected company into a Finks in response, But I'm not sure what he's thinking I'm waiting for. He casts collected company--1 mana source available. He hits an Archdruid and something else small.
Unless I kill something, I can only block 1 and I'm dead. He taps the Llanowar Elf to play another mystic. Thinks long and hard about it attacking, says Deflecting Palm out loud--passes. Last chance, I draw a Boros charm.
He punted. Asked if I had it, I felt bad to tell him no.
Top 4: Mono white pan-harmonicon--budget deck that this kid plays that is actually super effective. The previous builds had maindeck lone missionary, main deck Finks--he told me after the fact he took out Lone Missionary's because burn hadn't been as prominent. There were 3 burn decks tonight haha. We had discussed splitting top 4, but another guy wanted to play. I had made it clear I wanted points during the splitting the top 4, and my top 4 opponent offered the concession.
Finals: Burn player from round 1.
Game 1: I start out with a 1 lander, a Guide, a Bolt, a Lava Spike, an Eidolon, a Searing Blaze and a Skullcrack, on the play. All pretty good cards in the matchup, things to do the first 3 turns if I don't hit lands--and the hope that he plays his own goblin guide to help me find 'em. I didn't draw a land for several turns. I bolted his Goblin Guide to keep myself ahead in the race. He let my Goblin guide get in for 6 or 8 damage before dealing with it. He cast an Eidolon, but was a bit behind. He manages to do enough to get himself down to 2 life, and me at 8. I top deck a land and kill him.
Game 2: Same Sideboard plan as game 3 from round 1. He mulligans to 6. He plays a turn 2 Firewalker, I attack with my Goblin Guide with a skullcrack in hand--he takes the damage. I dropped some swift spears, multiple bolts--I probably dealt 23-24 damage--he just gained too much life.
Game 3: He kept a 1 lander and never saw a 2nd. #Magic.
Thoughts:
I've been back and forth on Eidolon on the play. I think he's fine as long as you make a good effort to get ahead.
I played a total of 8 games vs Burn today--Firewalker won 2 of those games. I can justify keeping it, but I also don't think it's necessary, and it's narrow.
Searing Blood is fine, Lavamancer is fine, this is close to what I'll be running going forward.
I recently tested with Shattering spree for a few days--overall I don't like it. Affinity has enough man-lands and arcbound Ravager that it's not the board wipe we want vs them. Eldrazi Tron--Getting rid of a Chalice is nice, but if they've gotten a Chalice in 1 and 2, we're probably already taking a beating from their creatures, and top decking it isn't what we need.
The card I'm most unsure about is Firecraft. We're already so bad against UW control that it feels like a wasted space, but then again UW and UWR are both Tier 1/2 right now, and other decks like Storm and Bant Eldrazi also run counter spells. Thoughts?
@Arkaedrian - I run 1 Grim Lavamancer mainboard and 19 land. That may save you 2 additional SB slots...
I wouldn't worry about Exquisite Firecraft and instead add something like Grafdigger's Cage or a 3rd Path.
Against UW Control, get out of the gates quickly with creatures then hold burn spells for a flurry so they can't counter them all. Our biggest worries are Spreading Seas + Ghost Quarter on our non-red sources, and Gideon of the Trials...
Wednesday night, after nationals. Everyone was tired, so we only had 6 players. I reset my naya/boros burn back to mardu as I wanted to do more serious testing. I was on the draw starting all rounds.
R1: 2-0 UR gifts storm
G1: he didn't have anything to go off with (kept digging) so I raced faster
- 2 lava spike
+ 2 rakdos charm
G2: Had 2 eidolons on the board versus raise the alarm. In the end we had 2 life each (he had 2 1/1's I had 2 eidolons) but I had bigger threats.
R2: infect. Helix provided an option to point down; atarka's command gave me reach options. Mardu had 4 more point to face with 2 shards MB so that's 2 less so I'll blame my hand for this.
G1: I had nothing to point to the ground, so he T3'd me.
- 3 gonti's M
+ 3 path to exile
G2: I had one threat to point to the ground, so he T4'd me
R3: Jund Death's Shadow.
G1: pure race here. T3 3 mana 2 energy spike+charm+gonti's for last 10 points across a DS + goyf
- 4 rift bolt, 1 gonti's
+ 3 path to exile, 2 rakdos charm
G2: Pathed a DS, but in the end it was one goyf him on 3 life, my eidolon on the board, his hands full of 1-2 drops. Drew land; drew charm, then finally a bolt.
Never had problems matching up against UR gifts storm even in more competitive settings (using a more painful 4x atarka's command no helix naya list) in the past. Will keep you posted. Any criticisms appreciated
ill start to play naya burn and theres one deck in my local meta that keeps me thinking about how to beat it and it is merfolk, so id like to see some advices how to sideboard and how to procede against their spell pierce, dispell etc
Merfolk used to be a really tough matchup. I actually think the deck has gotten a bit clunkier than previous Versions. A lot of people are on Smuggler's copter, which is a very slow/do nothing olay in a lot of cases.
Come out of the gate as the beat down. If they play A silvergill, keep swinging. The silvergill grows later, our creatures don't. If they trade,
You're better off. If they don't, that's more damage.
The other thing that helps burn immensely is being RW instead of RWG. You're going to see Aether Vial and Spreading seas and decide to yourself that you would benefit from blowing those things up with destructive Revelry. That's reasonable logic.
The problem is, you make your mana base 3 colors. Spreading Seas hurts us that much more when our deck is 3 colors. If they soend their 2nd turn casting spreading seas, then they've gained no board position. Keep attacking yheir life total. Playing a game of "get them dead." Is a better plan for us than hoping yo catch their spreading seas or aether vial. Also, most burn lists run 1 stolping ground--if you get that in your opener, soreading seas on it will ruin you if you're boarding in green cards.
Lastly--try to save your white spells til the end. Fetch mountains when you can. Save fetching Sacred Foundry until ypu have to or you're goung for the win.
Played a ton of games against UW control and Jeskai Tempo yesterday. Lost every single one. Is it just me or does Burn suck against control decks? I can never win against them, it's infuriating.
I don't have much trouble against most control decks and only have a little trouble against Jeskai, but it's maybe 50:50 for me. I think Burn is strong against control decks in general.
It's all about sequencing, bottlenecking them, and punishing them when they try to do things for their own gameplan.
Jeskai is harder, IMO because they run multiple copies of helix and snapcaster
Elconquistador is right, you've gotta unload when they go to do their own thing, and bottleneck their mana. They have their own threads--go analyze their decks. They seem to have the following countrspell suite:
4 mana leak, 2-4 cryptic command,0-1 negate.
Mana Leak is soft. Meaning you can pay the tax. Keep in mind, your now blue sources can pay the tax. Also, don't wait always u til the end of their turn; if they've got 2 lands untapped--and 1 is a fetch--and they fetch at the end of your turn--they might have spell snare, but it looks like mosts lists are off of it for right now--'eaning you're most likely clear.
Imagine end of their turn, they're at 9
Goblin Guide got in for 2 before Wall of Omens blanked it.
Eidolon dealt 2 when they cast a path on it.
You caught then with their pants down At the end of your turn for a boros charm.
They fetched 3x.
You've got 4 lands to their 5.
Your hand: Skullcrack, Bolt, Helix, Lava Spike.
They pass and you draw. It's a land, you play it and pass, they play their 6th and pass. They could have cryptic and mana leak. You take a draw and see a Boros Charm. Pass.
They draw, and just for the helluv it they see a 7th land. They play it and pass, you offer up your boros Charm, they cryptic command it.
You cast helix. They take it. You untap, with 3 burnspells in hand, your opponent at 6 and able to cast 1 counterpsell.
Sometimes it won't work, you'll draw 2-3 lands in a row. But playing 1 card into mana leak at a time won't work.
Fantastic explanation of a sequence against control. That's the kind of situation I want to get into because it's hard to lose at that point. We play more burn than they have counters and we can dictate how the game ends by casting instants on their turn and finishing them off on ours. It's excellent if they play Cryptic Command to counter something, because they spent at least half of their mana to blank something that cost 2 at most.
A play that I like making is that if they play Snap and target a counter in their graveyard, I'll respond with burn spells because it possibly means they don't have counters in hand and that spell doesn't get flashback until you let the ability resolve.
I don't think Shrine of Burning Rage belongs in the deck, period. Our control matchup is fine and is just a matter of learning how to play the matchup correctly. If you buy into the "Eidolon vs Shrine" paradigm, Eidolon is vastly superior to Shrine in that matchup.
Let's talk about Shrine. What do you see as the beneft? That it deals a lot of damage?
What's it's average damage dealt? I don't play it, so I don't know. I'm guessing closer to 5? 2-3 turbs, 2-3 spells.
What do you pay to get that damage? 2 to cast it, 3 to blow it up. 5 mana for 5 damage? Say you're getting crazy and doing 10. That's how often? What's the Return on investment. What cards are you unable to cast because you soent those 5 mana?
Also, it's vulnerable. If UW is the nain control deck, and they have Cryptic command, do we not worry about them bouncing it? Sure, they can bounce Eidolon. But Eidolon is more likely to deal at least 2 damage.
Detention Sphere also hits it. Eidolon gets you 2 damage in this case.
Abrupt Decay gets it.
K command gets it.
Eidolon at least locks me in for 2 damage. Even when he's bad, you can find ways to get use out of him. But when he's good, he takes over a game.
-Steep mana cost (2 to cast, 3 to activate, potentially gobbling the biggest part of two turns to properly resolve)
-Damage is delayed (It's clearly a card that want to sit on the field for 2-3 turns at least)
-It's Slow (I hardly see this card really paying off before turn 5)
-Horrible top-deck (I cannot see myself being happy drawing my first copy on turn 4)
-Vulnerable to removal/Artifact hate
-Damage is not even garanteed
Anything I'm missing? I actually wanted to try the card in a mono-red or boros list, but now that I see it being repeatedly bashed in this thread with actual reasons/claim to back-up the bashing, I'm gonna assume it's not that good and ignore it.
If your meta is a lot of decks where you take it out regardless of play/draw: affinity, Eldrazi Tron, Bant Eldrazi--then maybe go without Eidolon--I still think you have better options than Shrine.
I'm running a mardu burn and got some interesting games in yesterday.
Scapeshift 1-2. Only chance I had was to out burn him. I tried to keep my life total as high as possible but never was good enough. Would loveither some advice against it.
Jeska harbringer deck 0-2. Once he was able to get lightning helix under the lens he kept out of my lethal range for spells by 1-4 health usually. Both matches were close. In the past matches I've had with him I've beat him everytime, but he seemed to hit all his bolts and helixs.
Merfolk mono blue 2-0. She was able to go wide around turn 4 but by then it was too late and I had plenty of burn spells in my hand.
Purely anecdotal, but I have a much improved win percentage after switching from Eidolon to Shrine. I also went full boros ditching my lone Stomping Ground for a third Foundry. I don't have numbers backing it up, and I could have just gotten particularly lucky match ups, but I'm having much more success after the switch.
Purely anecdotal, but I have a much improved win percentage after switching from Eidolon to Shrine. I also went full boros ditching my lone Stomping Ground for a third Foundry. I don't have numbers backing it up, and I could have just gotten particularly lucky match ups, but I'm having much more success after the switch.
What specific matchups has Shrine improved when compared to Eidolon? Shrine can win particular games that would have been lost (ie. you're way behind and need 8 damage to win), but that doesn't mean that Shrine is better. Shrine can also lead you down play lines that are designed to make Shrine win the game, when a different line of play (and including Eidolon) would have won the game as well. If your meta is a bunch of slow decks that take 15 turns to win the game, play Shrine, but that's not what the actual Modern meta looks like.
My meta(quantity order):
A Lot of bw Tokens
Jund and junk
Storm
Eldrazi color less and bant
Tron
Company
I use 7 "skullcrack" to combat auriok Champion and Sorin.
I have no ideia If eidolon is better than shrine
Tokens: You need to race them. Your favorite of Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods, and Volcanic Fallout is strong. They have a lot of lifegain, so hold Skullcracks. Consider siding out Swift/Guide because they'll get blanked by blockers quickly.
Jund/Junk: Bring in Path and Palm, *maybe* Relic. Side out Blazes and then some Lava Spikes.
Storm: Bring Path and Relic. Kill Baral/Goblin Electromancer on sight, but be aware that they might play Apostle's Blessing for "free" with the discount. This is a really strong matchup for Burn.
Eldrazi: Bring artifact hate, path, palm, and Ensnaring Bridge if you have them. It's a tough matchup.
Gx Tron: Path and Palm, I like DRev on the play since blowing up a map on T2 is worth it. Side out Blazes and then Eidolons. Just be aggressive and hold Skullcracks. This should be a good matchup.
Company decks: Path and Blazes. Consider Grafdigger's Cage. Kill Vizier on sight. If they cast CoCo and have one piece of the combo in play, kill it in response. Side out Lava Spikes to make room. This matchup comes down to being patient and carefully controlling their board to keep them off of the combo.
3x Path
3x Destructive Revelry
2x Grafdigger’s Cage
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Deflecting Palm
2x Stony Silence
1x Rest In Peace
As you can see, I cut 2x Kor Firewalkers. I feel like the meta has been shifting lately and burn is not as popular. Thoughts on this? Thought about cutting Stony Silence also.
FYI, my main board is pretty standard (12 creatures, 28 spells, 20 lands)
Round 1: Burn Mirror. Game 1, he came out of the gates with Goblin Guide, managed to searing blaze my Guide, and kept drawing gas.
Game 2: In: 2 Firewalker, 2 Path, 2 Lavamancer, 2 Searing Blood. Out: 2 Searing Blaze, 4 Boros Charm, 2 Rift Bolt. I dropped a turn 2 firewalker, and gained just enough life to keep off lethal.
Game 3: In: 2 Rift Bolt, 2 Boros Charm, Out: 4 Eidolon. Nothing to fancy, I killed a few of his guys, he killed a few of mine. Ultimately, he drew a few more lands than I did.
Round 2: Burn Mirror. Game 1: Swift spear into Eidolon gave me a nice start. We both got to 3 lands, and I had him at 6. I Cast a Lava spike to drop him to 3, and passed with his 3 lands up. He cast Helix at end of turn and I cast helix in response.
Game 2: Same sideboard plan as game 3 above. He deflecting Palms a Boros charm which made me panic, but runs out of gas.
Round 3: GDS
Game 1: Between he and I, his life total gets down to 10. I go end of turn Skullcrack, lightning Bolt, untap with a lava spike in hand and need any 1-2 mana burn spell--got another skullcrack.
Game 2: In: 2 Path, 2 Relic. Guide into Eidolon got me going nicely. He kills the Eidolon, but I play a 2nd. I drive him down to 2 and Stubborn Denial is effectively turned off. 1 more for the good guys!
Round 4: Elves.
Game 1. Bolted his Mystic, T2, T3 Eidolon--keep him off his combo plays. He still hits collected company to put me into a mess.
Game 2: In: 2 Lavamancer, 2 Searing Blood, 1 Grafdiggers cage, Out: 4 Boros Charm, 1 Lavaspike. Searing Blaze on his Mystic on my 2nd turn, Eidolon on the 3rd turn--he had a very slow and awkward draw and It just a lot of EOT burn spells.
Game 3: In: 4 Boros Charm, out: 4 Eidolon
Fast starts on both sides, but he wasn't getting any of the payoff cards. He's at 6, I had a skullcrack and a land that I had just drawn. I needed that land or my next draw to be any burn card. I cast the skullcrack EoT, untap and draw...STOMPING GROUND. I thought about scooping, but figured I'd give him a chance to mess it up.
He has A llanoward Elf, 4 lands, Ezuri, an Elvish Visionary, and nettle Sentinel. I have a Swift Spear. He's at 3, I guess you could argue he's wanting to collected company into a Finks in response, But I'm not sure what he's thinking I'm waiting for. He casts collected company--1 mana source available. He hits an Archdruid and something else small.
Unless I kill something, I can only block 1 and I'm dead. He taps the Llanowar Elf to play another mystic. Thinks long and hard about it attacking, says Deflecting Palm out loud--passes. Last chance, I draw a Boros charm.
He punted. Asked if I had it, I felt bad to tell him no.
Top 4: Mono white pan-harmonicon--budget deck that this kid plays that is actually super effective. The previous builds had maindeck lone missionary, main deck Finks--he told me after the fact he took out Lone Missionary's because burn hadn't been as prominent. There were 3 burn decks tonight haha. We had discussed splitting top 4, but another guy wanted to play. I had made it clear I wanted points during the splitting the top 4, and my top 4 opponent offered the concession.
Finals: Burn player from round 1.
Game 1: I start out with a 1 lander, a Guide, a Bolt, a Lava Spike, an Eidolon, a Searing Blaze and a Skullcrack, on the play. All pretty good cards in the matchup, things to do the first 3 turns if I don't hit lands--and the hope that he plays his own goblin guide to help me find 'em. I didn't draw a land for several turns. I bolted his Goblin Guide to keep myself ahead in the race. He let my Goblin guide get in for 6 or 8 damage before dealing with it. He cast an Eidolon, but was a bit behind. He manages to do enough to get himself down to 2 life, and me at 8. I top deck a land and kill him.
Game 2: Same Sideboard plan as game 3 from round 1. He mulligans to 6. He plays a turn 2 Firewalker, I attack with my Goblin Guide with a skullcrack in hand--he takes the damage. I dropped some swift spears, multiple bolts--I probably dealt 23-24 damage--he just gained too much life.
Game 3: He kept a 1 lander and never saw a 2nd. #Magic.
Thoughts:
I've been back and forth on Eidolon on the play. I think he's fine as long as you make a good effort to get ahead.
I played a total of 8 games vs Burn today--Firewalker won 2 of those games. I can justify keeping it, but I also don't think it's necessary, and it's narrow.
Searing Blood is fine, Lavamancer is fine, this is close to what I'll be running going forward.
I recently tested with Shattering spree for a few days--overall I don't like it. Affinity has enough man-lands and arcbound Ravager that it's not the board wipe we want vs them. Eldrazi Tron--Getting rid of a Chalice is nice, but if they've gotten a Chalice in 1 and 2, we're probably already taking a beating from their creatures, and top decking it isn't what we need.
Cards like Ensnaring Bridge, Shattering spree, Volcanic fallout, Molten Rain ect. Are these flex choices to be made depending on a specific meta, or should some of these just be played regardless of meta?
For reference, here's my SB:
2x Deflecting Palm
4x Destructive Revelry
1x Exquisite Firecraft
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Path to Exile
2x Relic of Progenitus
The card I'm most unsure about is Firecraft. We're already so bad against UW control that it feels like a wasted space, but then again UW and UWR are both Tier 1/2 right now, and other decks like Storm and Bant Eldrazi also run counter spells. Thoughts?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
I wouldn't worry about Exquisite Firecraft and instead add something like Grafdigger's Cage or a 3rd Path.
Against UW Control, get out of the gates quickly with creatures then hold burn spells for a flurry so they can't counter them all. Our biggest worries are Spreading Seas + Ghost Quarter on our non-red sources, and Gideon of the Trials...
R1: 2-0 UR gifts storm
G1: he didn't have anything to go off with (kept digging) so I raced faster
- 2 lava spike
+ 2 rakdos charm
G2: Had 2 eidolons on the board versus raise the alarm. In the end we had 2 life each (he had 2 1/1's I had 2 eidolons) but I had bigger threats.
R2: infect. Helix provided an option to point down; atarka's command gave me reach options. Mardu had 4 more point to face with 2 shards MB so that's 2 less so I'll blame my hand for this.
G1: I had nothing to point to the ground, so he T3'd me.
- 3 gonti's M
+ 3 path to exile
G2: I had one threat to point to the ground, so he T4'd me
R3: Jund Death's Shadow.
G1: pure race here. T3 3 mana 2 energy spike+charm+gonti's for last 10 points across a DS + goyf
- 4 rift bolt, 1 gonti's
+ 3 path to exile, 2 rakdos charm
G2: Pathed a DS, but in the end it was one goyf him on 3 life, my eidolon on the board, his hands full of 1-2 drops. Drew land; drew charm, then finally a bolt.
Never had problems matching up against UR gifts storm even in more competitive settings (using a more painful 4x atarka's command no helix naya list) in the past. Will keep you posted. Any criticisms appreciated
Merfolk used to be a really tough matchup. I actually think the deck has gotten a bit clunkier than previous Versions. A lot of people are on Smuggler's copter, which is a very slow/do nothing olay in a lot of cases.
Come out of the gate as the beat down. If they play A silvergill, keep swinging. The silvergill grows later, our creatures don't. If they trade,
You're better off. If they don't, that's more damage.
The other thing that helps burn immensely is being RW instead of RWG. You're going to see Aether Vial and Spreading seas and decide to yourself that you would benefit from blowing those things up with destructive Revelry. That's reasonable logic.
The problem is, you make your mana base 3 colors. Spreading Seas hurts us that much more when our deck is 3 colors. If they soend their 2nd turn casting spreading seas, then they've gained no board position. Keep attacking yheir life total. Playing a game of "get them dead." Is a better plan for us than hoping yo catch their spreading seas or aether vial. Also, most burn lists run 1 stolping ground--if you get that in your opener, soreading seas on it will ruin you if you're boarding in green cards.
Lastly--try to save your white spells til the end. Fetch mountains when you can. Save fetching Sacred Foundry until ypu have to or you're goung for the win.
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
It's all about sequencing, bottlenecking them, and punishing them when they try to do things for their own gameplan.
Elconquistador is right, you've gotta unload when they go to do their own thing, and bottleneck their mana. They have their own threads--go analyze their decks. They seem to have the following countrspell suite:
4 mana leak, 2-4 cryptic command,0-1 negate.
Mana Leak is soft. Meaning you can pay the tax. Keep in mind, your now blue sources can pay the tax. Also, don't wait always u til the end of their turn; if they've got 2 lands untapped--and 1 is a fetch--and they fetch at the end of your turn--they might have spell snare, but it looks like mosts lists are off of it for right now--'eaning you're most likely clear.
Imagine end of their turn, they're at 9
Goblin Guide got in for 2 before Wall of Omens blanked it.
Eidolon dealt 2 when they cast a path on it.
You caught then with their pants down At the end of your turn for a boros charm.
They fetched 3x.
You've got 4 lands to their 5.
Your hand: Skullcrack, Bolt, Helix, Lava Spike.
They pass and you draw. It's a land, you play it and pass, they play their 6th and pass. They could have cryptic and mana leak. You take a draw and see a Boros Charm. Pass.
They draw, and just for the helluv it they see a 7th land. They play it and pass, you offer up your boros Charm, they cryptic command it.
You cast helix. They take it. You untap, with 3 burnspells in hand, your opponent at 6 and able to cast 1 counterpsell.
Sometimes it won't work, you'll draw 2-3 lands in a row. But playing 1 card into mana leak at a time won't work.
A play that I like making is that if they play Snap and target a counter in their graveyard, I'll respond with burn spells because it possibly means they don't have counters in hand and that spell doesn't get flashback until you let the ability resolve.
What's it's average damage dealt? I don't play it, so I don't know. I'm guessing closer to 5? 2-3 turbs, 2-3 spells.
What do you pay to get that damage? 2 to cast it, 3 to blow it up. 5 mana for 5 damage? Say you're getting crazy and doing 10. That's how often? What's the Return on investment. What cards are you unable to cast because you soent those 5 mana?
Also, it's vulnerable. If UW is the nain control deck, and they have Cryptic command, do we not worry about them bouncing it? Sure, they can bounce Eidolon. But Eidolon is more likely to deal at least 2 damage.
Detention Sphere also hits it. Eidolon gets you 2 damage in this case.
Abrupt Decay gets it.
K command gets it.
Eidolon at least locks me in for 2 damage. Even when he's bad, you can find ways to get use out of him. But when he's good, he takes over a game.
-Steep mana cost (2 to cast, 3 to activate, potentially gobbling the biggest part of two turns to properly resolve)
-Damage is delayed (It's clearly a card that want to sit on the field for 2-3 turns at least)
-It's Slow (I hardly see this card really paying off before turn 5)
-Horrible top-deck (I cannot see myself being happy drawing my first copy on turn 4)
-Vulnerable to removal/Artifact hate
-Damage is not even garanteed
Anything I'm missing? I actually wanted to try the card in a mono-red or boros list, but now that I see it being repeatedly bashed in this thread with actual reasons/claim to back-up the bashing, I'm gonna assume it's not that good and ignore it.
(W/B)BW Tokens(W/B) | (B/R)Rakdos Burn(B/R) | (U/R)Gift Storm(U/R)
If your meta is a lot of decks where you take it out regardless of play/draw: affinity, Eldrazi Tron, Bant Eldrazi--then maybe go without Eidolon--I still think you have better options than Shrine.
Scapeshift 1-2. Only chance I had was to out burn him. I tried to keep my life total as high as possible but never was good enough. Would loveither some advice against it.
Jeska harbringer deck 0-2. Once he was able to get lightning helix under the lens he kept out of my lethal range for spells by 1-4 health usually. Both matches were close. In the past matches I've had with him I've beat him everytime, but he seemed to hit all his bolts and helixs.
Merfolk mono blue 2-0. She was able to go wide around turn 4 but by then it was too late and I had plenty of burn spells in my hand.
Please, help me with my list and specially SB.
https://deckstats.net/decks/74507/766748-naya-burn
My meta(quantity order):
A Lot of bw Tokens
Jund and junk
Storm
Eldrazi color less and bant
Tron
Company
I use 7 "skullcrack" to combat auriok Champion and Sorin.
I have no ideia If eidolon is better than shrine
What specific matchups has Shrine improved when compared to Eidolon? Shrine can win particular games that would have been lost (ie. you're way behind and need 8 damage to win), but that doesn't mean that Shrine is better. Shrine can also lead you down play lines that are designed to make Shrine win the game, when a different line of play (and including Eidolon) would have won the game as well. If your meta is a bunch of slow decks that take 15 turns to win the game, play Shrine, but that's not what the actual Modern meta looks like.
Tokens: You need to race them. Your favorite of Pyroclasm, Anger of the Gods, and Volcanic Fallout is strong. They have a lot of lifegain, so hold Skullcracks. Consider siding out Swift/Guide because they'll get blanked by blockers quickly.
Jund/Junk: Bring in Path and Palm, *maybe* Relic. Side out Blazes and then some Lava Spikes.
Storm: Bring Path and Relic. Kill Baral/Goblin Electromancer on sight, but be aware that they might play Apostle's Blessing for "free" with the discount. This is a really strong matchup for Burn.
Eldrazi: Bring artifact hate, path, palm, and Ensnaring Bridge if you have them. It's a tough matchup.
Gx Tron: Path and Palm, I like DRev on the play since blowing up a map on T2 is worth it. Side out Blazes and then Eidolons. Just be aggressive and hold Skullcracks. This should be a good matchup.
Company decks: Path and Blazes. Consider Grafdigger's Cage. Kill Vizier on sight. If they cast CoCo and have one piece of the combo in play, kill it in response. Side out Lava Spikes to make room. This matchup comes down to being patient and carefully controlling their board to keep them off of the combo.