I've had success against Burn by bringing in Firewalker. I've had Storm players whiff and fail to kill me because I had a Firewalker out. It negates their first Grapeshot completely and takes the edge off the second. It obviously isn't as great as Eidolon, but it's another 2 cards you can mull into.
Collective Brutality saw a lot of use for some amount of time when players thought it was this super powerful Burn hoser and it took a little time before they realized that "1B Discard 2: fail to kill Swiftspear, duress taking nothing, and get skullcracked" is a really bad outcome.
Collective Brutality isn't that big of a deal. You mitigate the Duress mode by emptying your hand as quickly as you can, and you can bait them into using it by having some lands/creatures in hand. Prioritize unloading sorceries and you can respond to CB with instants to mitigate the Duress as well.
...
Do you put out a Swiftspear and hold up Skullcrack? Or do you empty your hand completely of Guides and burn spells? I face T2 Brutality almost every match on MTGO...
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Also, consider that Liliana counts as occasional mana denial, and it starts to become a significant portion of our strategy.
I've had success against Burn by bringing in Firewalker. I've had Storm players whiff and fail to kill me because I had a Firewalker out. It negates their first Grapeshot completely and takes the edge off the second. It obviously isn't as great as Eidolon, but it's another 2 cards you can mull into.
Collective Brutality saw a lot of use for some amount of time when players thought it was this super powerful Burn hoser and it took a little time before they realized that "1B Discard 2: fail to kill Swiftspear, duress taking nothing, and get skullcracked" is a really bad outcome.
Collective Brutality isn't that big of a deal. You mitigate the Duress mode by emptying your hand as quickly as you can, and you can bait them into using it by having some lands/creatures in hand. Prioritize unloading sorceries and you can respond to CB with instants to mitigate the Duress as well.
...
Do you put out a Swiftspear and hold up Skullcrack? Or do you empty your hand completely of Guides and burn spells? I face T2 Brutality almost every match on MTGO...
I don't think KF is necessary for Storm. It's not hard to win. It also doesn't do much against Empty the Warrens.
If my options are Guide or Swift on T1, Guide every time because attacking for 2 on turn 1 is the best thing you can be doing. If my options on T2 are 2 Lava Spikes or Skullcrack/Boros Charm/Helix, I'm probably passing the turn with 2 mana open unless I think that's my shot to get a lot of damage with Swiftspear. You obviously can't empty your hand by T2. What you do need to do is to spend your mana optimally, and that will likely mean T2 2CMC spell, T3 3 1CMC or 1 of each if you hit your 3rd land, or you can consider 2 1CMC spells on T3 when you only have 2 lands. It depends on how you see your next turns playing out as far as optimally spending mana and cards. If you have a lot of 2s, play one of them. I would, however, keep Skullcrack up in that situation if I had it.
T2 Collective Brutality is not the end of the world. They just spent 3 cards on it and half your deck replaces the Duress mode, beats the gain mode, and creatures are expendable.
do you have updated your sideboard strategies on your google dock ?
If yes, could you please give us your link please ?
I have used your sideboard strategies for GP Modern Toronto and it went really well
But now with Jace and bloodbraid elf, even if those 2 cards doesn't change much for us, did your sideboard change (I'm talking about the RWg version) ?
I also have a question about the sideboard plan against Boggles. What are our "best" options (I'm talking about the RWg version again) ?
I have noted a couple of cards but none of them really excite me:
- Deflecing palm : Yes it doesn't target and goes under leyline, but it seems too "reactive". And lets say the oponent is at 12 and he attacks with a 8/8 lifelink (for example), that still doesn't kill him and you still won't be able to finish him if he has a leyline
- Ensnaring brige : Yes he will not be able to attack, but he can still block so we also can't attack into a big creature with lifelink. And he is playing seal of premordium main deck. So we are dead as soon as he disenchant our bridge.
- Aura barbs : Doesn't target, goes under leyline, can probably one shot kill, but is very narrow, only against boggles ...
or do we just close our eyes and try to dodge that matchup ?
I wasn't the one who had a google doc, and I can't for the life of me remember who it was. I do need to go back through and update the sideboard stuff on the front page, though.
As far as Bogles, that matchup is a lot tougher with them playing Leyline in the maindeck and you probably lose game 1 if they hit T0 Leyline. Palm is strong against them and also strong against Infect, but it's fighting an uphill battle if you've already lost game 1. I'd personally just hope to dodge it.
DH: Pyrostatic Pillar on a creature. Shrug. Placeholder?
KEN: We want to not make more triggers?
DH: Moved to three mana. Yes, another trigger, but at least at rare.
TML: Appealing. Lots of neat stuff going on.
DH: Is this too confusing with strive and bestow?
EVL: Future Future League requested 1RR 3/2 -> RR 2/1.
DH: This isn't seeing much play. Is it supposed to be a 2/2?
DH: 2/1 -> 2/2. List as full Top25 and it's not seeing much play.
This card has the top25full tag, which meant that it was anticipated to be one of the strongest cards in the set. When it wasn't hitting, the Future Future League, which handles Constructed playtesting, brought it back into line. It certainly ended up hitting hard!
I'm not sure about the talk of "another trigger" and "strive and bestow", but perhaps it was because of being in an environment with a lot of triggers to remember? Apparently it started out as 1RR 3/2, which I don't think would see play in Burn. The RR 2/1 would, but dying to a single Lingering Souls token would suck.
the other day I did 3 rounds 2-0, and I won the FNM tournament at my local shop having in my sideboard "Leyline of Sanctity".
The shop attnder told me that this card is ineffective against the current meta, but I doubt it. I am having pretty well results at home and at FNM using this card in my sideboard. Could somebody tell me his opinion about this fact?. I think it is useful in 90% of games and most of people do not expect!. I have a great hate against discarding effects and actually collective brutallity it is neglected!! (I consider that card as our NEMESIS).
I actually thought about Leyline for awhile. I don't think it's the worst card you could play. The main issue is that I used it primarily as discard hate, and the decks that use discard are typically good matchups for us anyways. But I do think there's decent potential.
the other day I did 3 rounds 2-0, and I won the FNM tournament at my local shop having in my sideboard "Leyline of Sanctity".
The shop attnder told me that this card is ineffective against the current meta, but I doubt it. I am having pretty well results at home and at FNM using this card in my sideboard. Could somebody tell me his opinion about this fact?. I think it is useful in 90% of games and most of people do not expect!. I have a great hate against discarding effects and actually collective brutallity it is neglected!! (I consider that card as our NEMESIS).
I wouldn't personally play Leyline because I don't think it's necessary, though it would certainly gain a huge advantage in the mirror via the "gotcha" factor in game 2.
We don't know enough to answer your question, though. What did he mean by "not good in the meta"? If you're only playing FNMs, then it might be that Leyline is quite bad in your meta and he might have been only talking about your local meta.
If you're playing leyline to avoid discard spells, each discard spell would ordinarily read "prevent 3 damage from target burn spell that hasn't been cast yet" but it gets shut off by leyline. Instead, leyline is a card that you drew that isn't burn, and therefore pseudo prevents 3 damage for your opponent. If course it could stack up by turning off multiple discard spells, but you can do that by casting things. In a sense, it's a wash, so I'd rather not play it.
What are your thoughts on Deflecting Palm? I’ve been having it in my side for months, boarding it in against Abzan/GDS/EldraziTron to hope to hit Goyf/Rhino/DS/Angler/TKS/Smasher. It usually ends up sitting in my hand doing nothing with me wishing I just had another burn spell or something I can just play rather than wait and do nothing. I can’t even remember when it actually did something.
Now I’m in doubt. Our current meta for the tournaments hosted in our store go all ways, from Tron to Jund, Jeskai, Dredge, Elves, Abzan, Burn, Affinity, Merfolk, Hatebears just literally every deck in the tier list.
I’ve been thinking about Kari Zev’s Expertise, but that’s too narrow and sorcery speed. Could be a lethal swing + free cast. Anger of the Gods I could see as a sweeper against ‘all’ creature decks. Or is Exquisite Firecraft the better way to go? In short; doubts!
My current main is:
4 Guide/Swiftspear/Eidolon
1 Lavaman
4 Spike/Rift/Bolt/Helix/Boros/Skullcrack/Blaze
19 land (RWg)
My side:
4 Revelry
2 Path/Relic of Progenitus/Palm/Searing Blood/Rampaging Ferocidon
1 Shattering Spree
Do you see anything I could swap Palm for? What would it be? Or would you suggest keeping it in for the potential? Don’t want to play Firewalker, also too narrow. Going nuts over this..
This was the last big tournament’s meta. Perhaps Firecraft isn’t such a bad idea looking at the control percentage. The other matchups are already just fine also without Palm, don’t need Palm to win vs this list.
Jund 18%
Burn 8%
Affinity 5%
Grixis Control 4%
UW Control 4%
Tron 3%
Ponza 3%
Storm 3%
DS 3%
This was the last big tournament’s meta. Perhaps Firecraft isn’t such a bad idea looking at the control percentage. The other matchups are already just fine also without Palm, don’t need Palm to win vs this list.
Jund 18%
Burn 8%
Affinity 5%
Grixis Control 4%
UW Control 4%
Tron 3%
Ponza 3%
Storm 3%
DS 3%
Thanks for the update. Based on these results, this is what my sideboard would look like:
Path to Exile: Although other decks where this would be good against are falling off the map, Jund is at the top of the list. However, I would only bring 2 copies in the MU so as not to over sideboard. The 3rd copy doesn't seem necessary in my opinion.
Exquisite Firecraft: Control is more popular, so I believe this should also be more popular.
Grim Lavamancer: Small creature decks are less favored where control decks are more heavily favored (control decks being favored because of JTMS). This card is currently better than Searing Blood because it's also useful against other decks as well.
Destructive Revelry: Affinity is still very common (just under Burn). Tron is also still a thing too.
Rest in Peace: This slot might be better replaced with Relic of Progenitus for control. Often times the extra card will be worth more than the graveyard hate. I have still yet to decide what it should be.
Kor Firewalker: The mirror is very popular. I think we should be prepared.
Flex Slot: I honestly don't know what should replace what used to be the 3rd Path to Exile.
Feel free to tell me what you do and don't agree with.
Just tweaked a bit my list to have 20 lands instead of 19, adding a 3rd Mountain and cutting 1 Skullcrack, going down to 2. I had several games in which I couldn't fetch anything in the lategame due to Path from the opponent, so 3 basic feels good (4 could be the max in some meta I guess).
In regards of Leyline, it could be worth it against BG/x, but then again, we must jam the most damage in our deck as possible. If yourre going for Leyline, it's 4 or 0. You want them in your opener, not on turn 4. Damage will be done if they IoK turn 1 and then discard again on turn 2-3.
Leyline only turns off from jund: thoughtseize, IoK, bolt, Lily's sac effect, and some variations of K-command. Of those, the first hits them for 2 anyways, bolt for a creature isn't a bad trade if you hit once, Lily and K-command are arguably too slow to matter if they are trying to make you sac a guide or force through 2 extra damage for 3 mana. So really...yeah IoK kinda sucks, but that's it.
I'd argue the leyline SB space is better spent on either lavamancers or if you don't want to run lavamancers, RiP.
I can't imagine playing with 20 land. I run 19 and I would honestly like to run 18 because the number of games I lose because I see 6 lands is nearly all of them. That is the thing I hate most about this deck is that you just lose the games where you flood. If you were playing Jund, you'd be perfectly happy at 6 lands, but in burn it feels miserable. The worst part is it's not even because of your opponent, you basically lost to your own deck. 4 land hands are 100% unkeepable and 3 land hands are risky. It feels like 1 and 2 land hands are where you want to be.
I've been off of here for a few weeks now, wanted to give a few thoughts:
1. Dire fleet daredevil is what I think of as "cute."
Where does it shine for us? Against snapcaster decks--they can snap in response and blow you out. You've now got a 2/1 that they can kill before you evewr get a chance to attack.
Against Jund/Abzan--what do we want to cast vs them? Push a goyf? Lightning Bolt? Path? 3 mana for those don't seem like where we want to be.
The mirror? Kor Firewalker is just better.
2. The Flame of Keld
You have to play it late--so you don't discard your hand. Also bear in mind we often want to hold up Skullcrack. This has a negative synergy.
When we play it, it does nothing assuming we've emptied our hand
The appeal being the draw 2--each draw is 2/3 a burn spell. Whereas another burn spell is 1/1 a burn spell.
The 3rd mode/level isn't really something we'll utilize. We've emptied our hand to get the draw two. If both your drawn cards are burn--are you going to hold it up just to fire this off with the extra damage next turn? If you've emptied your hand and hit more burn spells off this--they're already dead.
Flame of Keld is really just Dangerous Wager with extra text. Dangerous Wager isn't good enough, and Dangerous Wager with some flavor text 2 turns from now is not good, either.
Looks solid to me, if you're sold on Firewalker. If it were me, I'd probably play another Path and another Relic instead of the Firewalker. I've liked having Firecraft over Palm. I generally used Palm when I felt like it would had a chance to be Boros Charm or better, and Firecraft matches Charm in damage per card but isn't an out of place reactive card in a proactive deck.
Do you put out a Swiftspear and hold up Skullcrack? Or do you empty your hand completely of Guides and burn spells? I face T2 Brutality almost every match on MTGO...
-MTG Salvation.
I don't think KF is necessary for Storm. It's not hard to win. It also doesn't do much against Empty the Warrens.
If my options are Guide or Swift on T1, Guide every time because attacking for 2 on turn 1 is the best thing you can be doing. If my options on T2 are 2 Lava Spikes or Skullcrack/Boros Charm/Helix, I'm probably passing the turn with 2 mana open unless I think that's my shot to get a lot of damage with Swiftspear. You obviously can't empty your hand by T2. What you do need to do is to spend your mana optimally, and that will likely mean T2 2CMC spell, T3 3 1CMC or 1 of each if you hit your 3rd land, or you can consider 2 1CMC spells on T3 when you only have 2 lands. It depends on how you see your next turns playing out as far as optimally spending mana and cards. If you have a lot of 2s, play one of them. I would, however, keep Skullcrack up in that situation if I had it.
T2 Collective Brutality is not the end of the world. They just spent 3 cards on it and half your deck replaces the Duress mode, beats the gain mode, and creatures are expendable.
What's Guerrilla Tactics for?
do you have updated your sideboard strategies on your google dock ?
If yes, could you please give us your link please ?
I have used your sideboard strategies for GP Modern Toronto and it went really well
But now with Jace and bloodbraid elf, even if those 2 cards doesn't change much for us, did your sideboard change (I'm talking about the RWg version) ?
I also have a question about the sideboard plan against Boggles. What are our "best" options (I'm talking about the RWg version again) ?
I have noted a couple of cards but none of them really excite me:
- Deflecing palm : Yes it doesn't target and goes under leyline, but it seems too "reactive". And lets say the oponent is at 12 and he attacks with a 8/8 lifelink (for example), that still doesn't kill him and you still won't be able to finish him if he has a leyline
- Ensnaring brige : Yes he will not be able to attack, but he can still block so we also can't attack into a big creature with lifelink. And he is playing seal of premordium main deck. So we are dead as soon as he disenchant our bridge.
- Aura barbs : Doesn't target, goes under leyline, can probably one shot kill, but is very narrow, only against boggles ...
or do we just close our eyes and try to dodge that matchup ?
As far as my sideboard, I like Exquisite Firecraft over Deflecting Palm. I've also been playing a 5th Searing effect.
As far as Bogles, that matchup is a lot tougher with them playing Leyline in the maindeck and you probably lose game 1 if they hit T0 Leyline. Palm is strong against them and also strong against Infect, but it's fighting an uphill battle if you've already lost game 1. I'd personally just hope to dodge it.
I'm not sure about the talk of "another trigger" and "strive and bestow", but perhaps it was because of being in an environment with a lot of triggers to remember? Apparently it started out as 1RR 3/2, which I don't think would see play in Burn. The RR 2/1 would, but dying to a single Lingering Souls token would suck.
I actually thought about Leyline for awhile. I don't think it's the worst card you could play. The main issue is that I used it primarily as discard hate, and the decks that use discard are typically good matchups for us anyways. But I do think there's decent potential.
I wouldn't personally play Leyline because I don't think it's necessary, though it would certainly gain a huge advantage in the mirror via the "gotcha" factor in game 2.
We don't know enough to answer your question, though. What did he mean by "not good in the meta"? If you're only playing FNMs, then it might be that Leyline is quite bad in your meta and he might have been only talking about your local meta.
If you're playing leyline to avoid discard spells, each discard spell would ordinarily read "prevent 3 damage from target burn spell that hasn't been cast yet" but it gets shut off by leyline. Instead, leyline is a card that you drew that isn't burn, and therefore pseudo prevents 3 damage for your opponent. If course it could stack up by turning off multiple discard spells, but you can do that by casting things. In a sense, it's a wash, so I'd rather not play it.
Probably not a must have, but it's a good card that will help you in a lot of match ups
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Now I’m in doubt. Our current meta for the tournaments hosted in our store go all ways, from Tron to Jund, Jeskai, Dredge, Elves, Abzan, Burn, Affinity, Merfolk, Hatebears just literally every deck in the tier list.
I’ve been thinking about Kari Zev’s Expertise, but that’s too narrow and sorcery speed. Could be a lethal swing + free cast. Anger of the Gods I could see as a sweeper against ‘all’ creature decks. Or is Exquisite Firecraft the better way to go? In short; doubts!
My current main is:
4 Guide/Swiftspear/Eidolon
1 Lavaman
4 Spike/Rift/Bolt/Helix/Boros/Skullcrack/Blaze
19 land (RWg)
My side:
4 Revelry
2 Path/Relic of Progenitus/Palm/Searing Blood/Rampaging Ferocidon
1 Shattering Spree
Do you see anything I could swap Palm for? What would it be? Or would you suggest keeping it in for the potential? Don’t want to play Firewalker, also too narrow. Going nuts over this..
Cheers guys
Jund 18%
Burn 8%
Affinity 5%
Grixis Control 4%
UW Control 4%
Tron 3%
Ponza 3%
Storm 3%
DS 3%
Thanks for the update. Based on these results, this is what my sideboard would look like:
My choices and my opinion.
Path to Exile: Although other decks where this would be good against are falling off the map, Jund is at the top of the list. However, I would only bring 2 copies in the MU so as not to over sideboard. The 3rd copy doesn't seem necessary in my opinion.
Exquisite Firecraft: Control is more popular, so I believe this should also be more popular.
Grim Lavamancer: Small creature decks are less favored where control decks are more heavily favored (control decks being favored because of JTMS). This card is currently better than Searing Blood because it's also useful against other decks as well.
Destructive Revelry: Affinity is still very common (just under Burn). Tron is also still a thing too.
Rest in Peace: This slot might be better replaced with Relic of Progenitus for control. Often times the extra card will be worth more than the graveyard hate. I have still yet to decide what it should be.
Kor Firewalker: The mirror is very popular. I think we should be prepared.
Flex Slot: I honestly don't know what should replace what used to be the 3rd Path to Exile.
Feel free to tell me what you do and don't agree with.
In regards of Leyline, it could be worth it against BG/x, but then again, we must jam the most damage in our deck as possible. If yourre going for Leyline, it's 4 or 0. You want them in your opener, not on turn 4. Damage will be done if they IoK turn 1 and then discard again on turn 2-3.
Aggro: Naya Burn RWG
Combo: Scapeshift RG
Control: Jeskai Control UWR
Legacy
Control: Miracles UW
Aggro: Burn R
I'd argue the leyline SB space is better spent on either lavamancers or if you don't want to run lavamancers, RiP.
1. Dire fleet daredevil is what I think of as "cute."
Where does it shine for us? Against snapcaster decks--they can snap in response and blow you out. You've now got a 2/1 that they can kill before you evewr get a chance to attack.
Against Jund/Abzan--what do we want to cast vs them? Push a goyf? Lightning Bolt? Path? 3 mana for those don't seem like where we want to be.
The mirror? Kor Firewalker is just better.
2. The Flame of Keld
You have to play it late--so you don't discard your hand. Also bear in mind we often want to hold up Skullcrack. This has a negative synergy.
When we play it, it does nothing assuming we've emptied our hand
The appeal being the draw 2--each draw is 2/3 a burn spell. Whereas another burn spell is 1/1 a burn spell.
The 3rd mode/level isn't really something we'll utilize. We've emptied our hand to get the draw two. If both your drawn cards are burn--are you going to hold it up just to fire this off with the extra damage next turn? If you've emptied your hand and hit more burn spells off this--they're already dead.
1 Shattering Spree
2 Path to Exile
2 Exquisite Firecraft (instead of my usual 2 Deflecting Palm)
2 Kor Firewalker (instead of my usual 2 Rampaging Ferocidon)
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Searing Blood
4 Destructive Revelry
Looks solid to me, if you're sold on Firewalker. If it were me, I'd probably play another Path and another Relic instead of the Firewalker. I've liked having Firecraft over Palm. I generally used Palm when I felt like it would had a chance to be Boros Charm or better, and Firecraft matches Charm in damage per card but isn't an out of place reactive card in a proactive deck.