Anyone notice a big uptick in bad matchups on MTGO? Jeskai, UW Control, Affinity and Elves are tough and sometimes demoralizing matches. GBx can also be not very great depending on your sideboard.
Once we are topdecking vs opponents its almost game over since the threats we draw are so small and rarely pull double duty. No man-lands also hurts us there. Would be nice to figure out some sort of value engine like the Oketra's Monument + Whitemane Lion combo.
Anyone notice a big uptick in bad matchups on MTGO? Jeskai, UW Control, Affinity and Elves are tough and sometimes demoralizing matches. GBx can also be not very great depending on your sideboard.
Once we are topdecking vs opponents its almost game over since the threats we draw are so small and rarely pull double duty. No man-lands also hurts us there. Would be nice to figure out some sort of value engine like the Oketra's Monument + Whitemane Lion combo.
You can always adjust the 75 to account for such a meta shift.
Check it out: 3 Humans lists (all different to some degree) in the top 4 of the MTGO Modern PTQ this weekend, plus another list at 7th. Evidence that both Vial and Company shells are viable perhaps?
considering a 1-of renegade rallier in vial humans. seems like it could add some resilience as well as keeping up the pressure if you get back mayor or lieutenant (also its a 3/2). also works nicely at instant speed with vial. main downside is we obviously dont have many fetches to enable revolt. we kind of rely on opponents' removal in that regard
Rallier won't work in a Vial list. Witness for a slower similar effect, or CA engine like Recruiter or Bob.
Really surprised Humans was beat by Dredge in the finals, the MU is clearly favorable with a Coco list. Seems like Vial and fewer creature removal in the main has something to do with the defeat. I still don't understand only 3 Ref Mages in the main decks.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Took Humans to my RPTQ because it felt like the safest choice after my testing. The wheels fell off after some heartbreaking close losses but I do not regret bringing the deck and will definitely continue to play the archetype. There were quite a few humans in the room, and I think the deck will stay a modern contender. Tournament was not all bad though, my friend qualified so it was worth the trip. I'll write a small recap (more interesting were the match ups and losses than anything else).
Round 1/ Elves/ 2-0
I actually knew my opponent but did not know what he was on. Game 1 I kept Lieutenant, double rider and my 1 of main Mirrian crusader. "Luckily", he was on elves and I got to play a rider and a Mirran, then drew two mayors and beat down. Game 2 I interacted a bit more with reflectors, mages and a staticaster that struggled with his Pendlehaven but his draw wasnt the fastest and I found a Mirran early. Was surprised to get this hard MU and the main mirran did it for me.
Round 2/ Affinity/ 2-1
Back to back bad MUs was not how I wanted to start the event. I mull to five and literally die on turn 3 to the hyper nut not even infect draw lmao. I make a joke about him wasting his nut draw on my mulligan and then game 2 I have a very aggressive draw versus his slower one. Game 3 he mulls to 6, keep a turn 1 plating into play a pest he scryed on top. I got champion into dismember, mage one of his potential plays, reflector the next creature he draws and he gets stuck with multiple pest in hand because of reflector and I get there.
Round 3/ Affinity/ 1-2
Possibly the harshest start to my RPTQ possible and I'm glad I didnt play a less resilient deck to its bad match ups. I should have had this match and this is where the heartbreak begins. I dont actually remember the order of the games, but one game I have the soul read on mage targets and name correctly and aggro him. The other game he gets a lot of power online and throws counters on champion.
In game 3 I recheck my sideboard to think about some switches. I'm positive I sided out 3 thalia and presented 60/15 game 2 (I always pile and recount SB before I present) so after messing with my sideboard and then counting it, I notice 16. We were deck checked and even with the extension I felt a little pressed for time (I should not have). I can't figure out what got messed up so I throw I believe a freebooter back in, since I like them for hitting the few spells and blocking the lands anyway. I open with a hand of champion/thaliaGoT/dismmeber/vithian/3 lands and snap it off. I go champion, dismember on overseer, draw and play mage with the soul read on plating but he has whipflare. He then untaps and plays a ravager off the top. I am trying to draw to anafenza for ravager or a reflector or hostage taker to force the counters from ravager so I can renegades the skirge they end up on. I end up having the force the counters to be moved with renegades anyway, and sadly play my thalia. It's at this point I realize: why is thalia in my deck? I know I snapped out 3 in game 2 and I definitely did not put it back in my deck on purpose, my sideboard still has fifteen cards and after conceding there I check my sideboard and realize this thalia is supposed to be the anafenza still in my board. The anafenza that beats his ravager. I did not even clue in when looking at my SB before game 3 this was not supposed to be in my SB and to lose this way feels pretty bad but it's on me.
Round 4/ Burn/ 2-1
Some pretty close matches, not much to say really. Kitesail/meddling mage are very important to play at the correct times. Having an aggressive draw makes things much, much easier. Both thalias were heroes.
Round 5/ UR Breach/ 0-2
Heartbreak #2. Game 1 my opponent leads on visions and then bolts my champion on 1. Turn 2 I can play mage or thalia's lieu off a fetch. I tank and can't decide what I think he's on. I knew there was a jeskai player at the top tables and I decide the bolt likely means he's not storm so I decide instead of fetching planes or playing mage, I'm fetch a hallowed fountain and play lieutenant. He untaps and plays moon with me having a hand of championx2 thalia's lieutent, thaliaHC and meddling mage. I find the plains but too late.
Game 2 I open with mage and decide between bolt anger or moon. I have a second mage and an anafenza but 3 gold lands at this point. I decide to mage on bolt into mage on moon so I can get to play anafenza on four even if he angers my two guys. He has no moon and angers both my mages, I play anafenza and noble. He cast turn 4 madcap. I draw a land, play thaliaHC and reflector mage off the lands and noble, attack with anafenza get a counter on noble and hit him for five. I'm feeling good. He then pyroclasms me, casts staticaster and kills my reflector and I have an anafenza. I draw two x/1s I can't play and hit him a couple times, then draw rider and put him to 1. He draws snap, flashes back madcap and stabilizes at 1.
Round 6/ Burn/ 1-2
My third heartbreak of the day. I'm dead for top 8 but my breakers are decent and I can top 16 for some prizes. My hand is great and I lead on vial. My opponent casts Guide, attacks and I show freebooter. I then kind of do one shift motiion, awkwardly, as I was planning to play a freebooter from hand but now was gonna play this one in obvious fashion from the top, while putting my champion in off vial. So with my left hand, I'm tapping vial while drawing and playing both creature with my right. I realize I didnt actually set the counter on vial though as I'm tapping it. At this point I probably should have called a judge because this was honestly just sloppy on my part and it likely would have gone my way as my intention and understanding of what had happened was pretty clear but I'm also an idiot and not one for doing that crap, so I don't. I end up a turn behind the whole game and he topdecks the boros charm (already cast one) for exactly 7 damamge (only out in the deck) at 1 life with lethal on my side. Talk about punished.
The other two games were basically me taking a lot of damage from eidolon but dealing a ton of damage as well, so eidolon hurt him more. Game 3 was me taking too much damage from Eidolon and it hurting me more than him lol. Interesting note: he states "play my sacred foundry untapped" with a Thalia HC in play but the judge ruled he didnt have to pay the life even though he announced he was. Didn't actually matter, just an interesting ruling.
Round 7/ 5c Deathshadow/ 0-2
Not much point in this being here. I could still prize but my heart was 100% out of it at this point. He cast like 6 discard spells each game, a few removal spells, some shadows and goyfs and lilies. Nothing really interesting here, but this match felt bad largely because of disruption/aggro/souls combo.
For some reason I say I'm gonna do a short report and it still feels long. No one likely reads them anyway though Despite my finish, I felt very solidly in contention and had I managed to dodge a few unfortunate mistakes, I would have had a very solid finish. I really enjoyed the deck because I played some horrible match ups but still had game, which is not something a lot of modern decks can say about their bad match ups. Had I played storm and queued versus shadow shadow burn, I'd have cried at my 0-3 start lmao. Definitely got some good information reading the thread before the event, so thanks for that guys.
I almost played this no green brew I worked on before the event. I got cold feet and decided to stick with a more stock list but I liked the mana base much better in this deck and I liked the access to white haymaker SB cards like stony (taking out vial here) and RIP while also getting a selection of other white cards and humans in my board and getting to play two basics main.
There was a few things I toyed with (like Harsh Mentor and Eldrazi Displacer in the main) but since I didn't end up playing it, this was my last working list.
Rallier won't work in a Vial list. Witness for a slower similar effect, or CA engine like Recruiter or Bob.
Really surprised Humans was beat by Dredge in the finals, the MU is clearly favorable with a Coco list. Seems like Vial and fewer creature removal in the main has something to do with the defeat. I still don't understand only 3 Ref Mages in the main decks.
I ended up going with the 3 reflector too and I have no idea why TBH. The joke is when it's bad it's really bad but it's never bad so...? Haha, I mean there's some scenarios but it's honestly better in more places than people give it credit for I think.
Has anyone tried Selfless Spirit in the Board instead of Xathrid Necromancer?
Comparing the 2, Xathrid obviously is the human and selfless spirit isn't, giving him an edge both triggering other cards and being easier to cast.
He is also better against sacrifice effects like All is dust or living end.
However comparing their effects against a sweeper I often find myself to actually prefer my board over the zombie tokens, especially having meddling mages and kitesail freebooters in play. Also i do believe there will be an uptic in anger of the gods being played.
Aside from that Selfless spirit being a 2 drop fits better into the curve. Humans tends to board in a lot of high impact 3 drops which to my dislike tends to increase the curve post board.
And finally a Spirit can protect a key Meddlingmage/Kitesail.
For those reasons I want to give the spirit a shot. Does anyone have any contrary opinions or experiences with the Spirit?
I think it's worth a try. I've found Xanthrid necromancer to be super underwhelming as well. Gives the U/W opponent an opportunity to Path it before the boardwipe resolves, sometimes gets stuck in hand when you don't want to tick vial up to 3, oftentimes not attacking. The extra counters on creatures isn't worth the downsides IMO.
Ive been brewing with this deck for a few weeks and I thought I would share some of my experiences. I would really prefer the deck become a bit faster but without a 3rd lord the deck just cant get there.
I also tried to replace meddling mage with a few cards. Kari Zev, Skyship raider was good but it made me feel like I had too many legendary creatures and wasn't able to get in enough. Hamlet captain and Voltaic Brawler were good but the deck isn't fast enough to give up the disruption from meddling mage. I also tried experiment one instead of noble hierarch but it never became bigger than a 3/3 so it felt lack luster compared to t2 mantis rider.
One thing that did work well is Magus of the Moon in the SB. It may sound wierd but with the number of times that this deck can empty its hand by turn three playing a blood moon can be fairly one sided as we are out of spells to cast and who fetches basics vs a 5 color deck?
To continue the discussion about xathrid vs selfless: both have their positives and negatives but I think we actually want vial on 3 more than 2. Our 3 drops like reflector mage, big thalia and izzet staticaster have much bigger impact off aether than our 2 drops. for 2 drops vial just cheats on mana but for 3 drops it gets us value. Also getting 3 lands vs 2 is a real concern especially with canopy. (note I play with 19 lands)
I haven't been an active follower of this thread, but I've been playing a lot with this deck and wanted to share my thoughts with ya'll. Here's a few links to some posts and videos I've done: Primer, Sideboard Guide, video of me playing through a league.
I've had some good results with the deck, I won the SCG DC Classic, went 6-2 at my Regionals, and went 8-2 in this last weekend's MTGO PTQ, losing to Dredge in the quarters. I've also played about 30 leagues with the deck too.
Cheers!
edit: For what it's worth, Dredge got a bit lucky to beat me in the PTQ. I think it's somewhat close if you're not running Grafdigger's Cage, but my build (with 2 Anafenza, 2 Cage in the sideboard) is probably slightly favored.
Grafdigger's Cage is a very good call for the Vial lists ! Coco decks are indeed tough MUs, and it also works VS Storm.
I don't think Ana is needed for Dredge, which is a good MU anyway. I don't get how Dredge can reasonably beat Humans outside of goldfishes every game. Staticaster wrecks half of their creatures, Crusader or Auriok Champion are almost uneabtable no matter which you choose, Mantis & Freebooters beat Narcomoebas in the air, Ref Mage & Champs & Lieuts beat Amalgams, and finally Med Mage can stop Imps & Conflags, the only annoying spells in the MU.
GG for your perfs !
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I totally agree with you about Anafenza and Dredge. I actually think she's a touch too slow in that matchup, especially if you are on the draw and you don't have a turn 1 Noble Hierarch. But I think she's definitely worth bringing in anyways.
I really have her in my sideboard for the Lightning Bolt/Anger of the Gods matchups, such as UR Breach and Titanshift, though I have trimmed down to only 1.
For what it's worth, Dredge also has Lightning Axe, Abrupt Decay, Vengeful Pharaoh, and Gnaw to the Bone as well. I think they should bring them all in, there can be situations where they cast Gnaw, go up to 40+ life, and have a Pharaoh in the graveyard. It's hard to kill them at that point, either you need to amass a monster army and kill them in one swing or you need to wait and deck them.
I had a game in one of those videos where I had a turn 1 or turn 2 Cage, and then a turn 2 or turn 3 Meddling Mage naming Abrupt Decay. My opponent had both Lightning Axe and Abrupt Decay in their hand and ended up beating me.
Yeah, it's true that they have various answers in their SBs and probably even up the MU post-board. I think the Coco version has a better Dredge MU too, because Coco can dig for SB cards more than attrition guys like Bob. I'm still learning the Vial differences with Coco, a card I'm much more used to with Humans. MUs ratios are definitely not all the same !
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Awesome guide Empy, you really are a saint to this sub forum
What are your thoughts on Hostage Taker? My local meta is filled with attrition matches a la Jund and Jeskai Geist, and I feel like he’s a house in the lategame when both players are top decking.
I like Dark Confidant a lot. I'm actually thinking about playing 4 in the 75, with 3 in the sideboard and 1 in the main over Mayor of Avabruck. Yes, he usually dies to everything, but that's why I want to have all 4! He becomes a must answer threat. I have found that versus the non-Snapcaster based attrition decks, you can tax their removal if you just go 1-for-1 with everything, and eventually you will stick a hard-to-remove threat like Mirran Crusader or a Dark Confidant. That said, you need to be really careful about not getting blown out by Damnation, Engineered Explosives, Maelstrom Pulse, Liliana, the Last Hope, Flaying Tendrils, etc.
Of course, sometimes it's just unavoidable and they topdeck one of these answers but that's Magic for you!
For what it's worth, I do like keeping Vial on 2 in these matchups because you can vial in Dark Confidant during their endstep or you can vial in Kitesail Freebooter during their draw step to try to hit their sorcery speed removal.
@Edelweiss
Hostage Taker is definitely a sweet card but I think 4 mana is just a bit too much. That said, I haven't tried it so go nuts! Another issue I have with Hostage Taker is that you have to be able to untap with him. So, yeah, you could vial him in, but your opponents will still have an opportunity to respond to the trigger before you can cast the creature that is being taken hostage. I think that Fiend Hunter might just be a cheaper, albeit less exciting option.
I won't sugarcoat it, attrition matchups are tough. These are decks that are designed to beat decks like ours. I'm running about 50% versus Junk/Jund, which I think is about right. Game 1, you just wanna jam all your creatures as fast as you can and hope you don't lose to a sweeper like Engineered Explosives and Maelstrom Pulse (I know Willy Edel posted a Junk list with THREE main deck Engineered Explosives!). Games 2 and 3 you have to be much more judicious about playing to the board. You need to thread the needle, so to speak: you need to be able to apply enough pressure to force your opponent into a situation where they have to respond, but you also need to avoid getting hit by too many 2-for-1s. I've found that Humans can usually endure maybe 1 or 2 2-for-1s, but not much more than that. (Also, if you are on the draw, be mindful that your turn 1 play might get Thoughtseized away! This means I am more likely to keep 3 land 4 creature spells with no 1-drops and less likely to keep 1 land, 1 Vial, 5 3-drop creature hands.)
Fortunately, we have something of a better plan versus UWR Control (no Spell Quellers, no Geist of Saint Traft): Grafdigger's Cage is very disruptive to their main plan, which is to use and re-use Snapcaster Mage against us. They tend to have less 2-for-1s than Junk, maybe like 1 Anger and 1 or 2 Supreme Verdict, and they don't force you to commit to the board as much because they don't have Tarmogoyfs or Grim Flayers or anything like that. Your smaller creatures are all threats to UWR: for example, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben gets stone-walled in the GBx attrition match-ups quickly because of Goyf, but she's basically always a threat versus UWR Control. Also, because UWR doesn't have access to Thoughtseize, they have to play countermagic, which can be really bad against us. Don't let them cash their Spell Snares and Mana Leaks against you in Game 1! Making those cards dead goes a long way to winning. I've found this matchup to be much more favorable than Jund/Junk.
With respect to UWR builds with Geist of Saint Traft and Spell Queller, this matchup is a lot easier. Geist really isn't very good versus us and our opponents don't really have many opportunities to attack us. These versions also tend to run less sweepers. Don't forget that Spell Queller doesn't actually counter your spell, it exiles it while it's on the stack (meaning, Cavern of Souls doesn't work!) Also be careful about attacking you 2/2s and 2/1s into open mana, since they might flash in Spell Queller as an Ambush Viper. I keep in some Reflector Mages post-board to bounce their Quellers.
Bringing this deck to the Baltimore Open for side events on Saturday and then the Philadelphia area RPTQ.
Real talk---do you really think 4x Horizon Canopy is the way to go or was this an experiment? Why wouldn't this be a universal choice? Why would it be bad?
4 Canopies is almost certainly suboptimal. It gives you more G/W mana combinations that you need, and offers clunky hands where you can't cast your U/R/B creatures. You don't have a Vial every game, and when you have one, it doesn't always stick. Same goes for the rainbow lands.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Played a few games last night with sin collector in the sideboard instead of xathrid necromancer.
Was a good call. By drawing a sin collector I was able to pressure my opponent's removal far more easily and play around/prevent anger of the gods from hitting the table in order to win. It felt like I had much more control over the games when I drew it.
Played against jeskai tempo in a best of five match. Didn't actually drop a game. Small sample size I know, but I feel like I learnt something.
Anyway not much else to report. Just liking sin collector.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
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Once we are topdecking vs opponents its almost game over since the threats we draw are so small and rarely pull double duty. No man-lands also hurts us there. Would be nice to figure out some sort of value engine like the Oketra's Monument + Whitemane Lion combo.
You can always adjust the 75 to account for such a meta shift.
Check it out: 3 Humans lists (all different to some degree) in the top 4 of the MTGO Modern PTQ this weekend, plus another list at 7th. Evidence that both Vial and Company shells are viable perhaps?
W Humans
Modern
G Stompy
EDH
GWU Rafiq
Really surprised Humans was beat by Dredge in the finals, the MU is clearly favorable with a Coco list. Seems like Vial and fewer creature removal in the main has something to do with the defeat. I still don't understand only 3 Ref Mages in the main decks.
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Meddling Mage
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mantis Rider
3 Reflector Mage
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Aether Vial
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Ancient Ziggurat
2 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Xathrid Necromancer
2 Dark Confidant
2 Vithian Renegades
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Dismember
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Reflector Mage
1 Hostage Taker
Round 1/ Elves/ 2-0
I actually knew my opponent but did not know what he was on. Game 1 I kept Lieutenant, double rider and my 1 of main Mirrian crusader. "Luckily", he was on elves and I got to play a rider and a Mirran, then drew two mayors and beat down. Game 2 I interacted a bit more with reflectors, mages and a staticaster that struggled with his Pendlehaven but his draw wasnt the fastest and I found a Mirran early. Was surprised to get this hard MU and the main mirran did it for me.
Round 2/ Affinity/ 2-1
Back to back bad MUs was not how I wanted to start the event. I mull to five and literally die on turn 3 to the hyper nut not even infect draw lmao. I make a joke about him wasting his nut draw on my mulligan and then game 2 I have a very aggressive draw versus his slower one. Game 3 he mulls to 6, keep a turn 1 plating into play a pest he scryed on top. I got champion into dismember, mage one of his potential plays, reflector the next creature he draws and he gets stuck with multiple pest in hand because of reflector and I get there.
Round 3/ Affinity/ 1-2
Possibly the harshest start to my RPTQ possible and I'm glad I didnt play a less resilient deck to its bad match ups. I should have had this match and this is where the heartbreak begins. I dont actually remember the order of the games, but one game I have the soul read on mage targets and name correctly and aggro him. The other game he gets a lot of power online and throws counters on champion.
In game 3 I recheck my sideboard to think about some switches. I'm positive I sided out 3 thalia and presented 60/15 game 2 (I always pile and recount SB before I present) so after messing with my sideboard and then counting it, I notice 16. We were deck checked and even with the extension I felt a little pressed for time (I should not have). I can't figure out what got messed up so I throw I believe a freebooter back in, since I like them for hitting the few spells and blocking the lands anyway. I open with a hand of champion/thaliaGoT/dismmeber/vithian/3 lands and snap it off. I go champion, dismember on overseer, draw and play mage with the soul read on plating but he has whipflare. He then untaps and plays a ravager off the top. I am trying to draw to anafenza for ravager or a reflector or hostage taker to force the counters from ravager so I can renegades the skirge they end up on. I end up having the force the counters to be moved with renegades anyway, and sadly play my thalia. It's at this point I realize: why is thalia in my deck? I know I snapped out 3 in game 2 and I definitely did not put it back in my deck on purpose, my sideboard still has fifteen cards and after conceding there I check my sideboard and realize this thalia is supposed to be the anafenza still in my board. The anafenza that beats his ravager. I did not even clue in when looking at my SB before game 3 this was not supposed to be in my SB and to lose this way feels pretty bad but it's on me.
Round 4/ Burn/ 2-1
Some pretty close matches, not much to say really. Kitesail/meddling mage are very important to play at the correct times. Having an aggressive draw makes things much, much easier. Both thalias were heroes.
Round 5/ UR Breach/ 0-2
Heartbreak #2. Game 1 my opponent leads on visions and then bolts my champion on 1. Turn 2 I can play mage or thalia's lieu off a fetch. I tank and can't decide what I think he's on. I knew there was a jeskai player at the top tables and I decide the bolt likely means he's not storm so I decide instead of fetching planes or playing mage, I'm fetch a hallowed fountain and play lieutenant. He untaps and plays moon with me having a hand of championx2 thalia's lieutent, thaliaHC and meddling mage. I find the plains but too late.
Game 2 I open with mage and decide between bolt anger or moon. I have a second mage and an anafenza but 3 gold lands at this point. I decide to mage on bolt into mage on moon so I can get to play anafenza on four even if he angers my two guys. He has no moon and angers both my mages, I play anafenza and noble. He cast turn 4 madcap. I draw a land, play thaliaHC and reflector mage off the lands and noble, attack with anafenza get a counter on noble and hit him for five. I'm feeling good. He then pyroclasms me, casts staticaster and kills my reflector and I have an anafenza. I draw two x/1s I can't play and hit him a couple times, then draw rider and put him to 1. He draws snap, flashes back madcap and stabilizes at 1.
Round 6/ Burn/ 1-2
My third heartbreak of the day. I'm dead for top 8 but my breakers are decent and I can top 16 for some prizes. My hand is great and I lead on vial. My opponent casts Guide, attacks and I show freebooter. I then kind of do one shift motiion, awkwardly, as I was planning to play a freebooter from hand but now was gonna play this one in obvious fashion from the top, while putting my champion in off vial. So with my left hand, I'm tapping vial while drawing and playing both creature with my right. I realize I didnt actually set the counter on vial though as I'm tapping it. At this point I probably should have called a judge because this was honestly just sloppy on my part and it likely would have gone my way as my intention and understanding of what had happened was pretty clear but I'm also an idiot and not one for doing that crap, so I don't. I end up a turn behind the whole game and he topdecks the boros charm (already cast one) for exactly 7 damamge (only out in the deck) at 1 life with lethal on my side. Talk about punished.
The other two games were basically me taking a lot of damage from eidolon but dealing a ton of damage as well, so eidolon hurt him more. Game 3 was me taking too much damage from Eidolon and it hurting me more than him lol. Interesting note: he states "play my sacred foundry untapped" with a Thalia HC in play but the judge ruled he didnt have to pay the life even though he announced he was. Didn't actually matter, just an interesting ruling.
Round 7/ 5c Deathshadow/ 0-2
Not much point in this being here. I could still prize but my heart was 100% out of it at this point. He cast like 6 discard spells each game, a few removal spells, some shadows and goyfs and lilies. Nothing really interesting here, but this match felt bad largely because of disruption/aggro/souls combo.
For some reason I say I'm gonna do a short report and it still feels long. No one likely reads them anyway though Despite my finish, I felt very solidly in contention and had I managed to dodge a few unfortunate mistakes, I would have had a very solid finish. I really enjoyed the deck because I played some horrible match ups but still had game, which is not something a lot of modern decks can say about their bad match ups. Had I played storm and queued versus shadow shadow burn, I'd have cried at my 0-3 start lmao. Definitely got some good information reading the thread before the event, so thanks for that guys.
I almost played this no green brew I worked on before the event. I got cold feet and decided to stick with a more stock list but I liked the mana base much better in this deck and I liked the access to white haymaker SB cards like stony (taking out vial here) and RIP while also getting a selection of other white cards and humans in my board and getting to play two basics main.
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Meddling Mage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Kitesail Freebooter
3 Reflector Mage
4 Mantis Rider
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Aether Vial
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Flooded Strange
2 Arid Mesa
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Horizon Canopy
There was a few things I toyed with (like Harsh Mentor and Eldrazi Displacer in the main) but since I didn't end up playing it, this was my last working list.
I ended up going with the 3 reflector too and I have no idea why TBH. The joke is when it's bad it's really bad but it's never bad so...? Haha, I mean there's some scenarios but it's honestly better in more places than people give it credit for I think.
I think it's worth a try. I've found Xanthrid necromancer to be super underwhelming as well. Gives the U/W opponent an opportunity to Path it before the boardwipe resolves, sometimes gets stuck in hand when you don't want to tick vial up to 3, oftentimes not attacking. The extra counters on creatures isn't worth the downsides IMO.
I also tried to replace meddling mage with a few cards. Kari Zev, Skyship raider was good but it made me feel like I had too many legendary creatures and wasn't able to get in enough. Hamlet captain and Voltaic Brawler were good but the deck isn't fast enough to give up the disruption from meddling mage. I also tried experiment one instead of noble hierarch but it never became bigger than a 3/3 so it felt lack luster compared to t2 mantis rider.
One thing that did work well is Magus of the Moon in the SB. It may sound wierd but with the number of times that this deck can empty its hand by turn three playing a blood moon can be fairly one sided as we are out of spells to cast and who fetches basics vs a 5 color deck?
To continue the discussion about xathrid vs selfless: both have their positives and negatives but I think we actually want vial on 3 more than 2. Our 3 drops like reflector mage, big thalia and izzet staticaster have much bigger impact off aether than our 2 drops. for 2 drops vial just cheats on mana but for 3 drops it gets us value. Also getting 3 lands vs 2 is a real concern especially with canopy. (note I play with 19 lands)
I haven't been an active follower of this thread, but I've been playing a lot with this deck and wanted to share my thoughts with ya'll. Here's a few links to some posts and videos I've done: Primer, Sideboard Guide, video of me playing through a league.
I've had some good results with the deck, I won the SCG DC Classic, went 6-2 at my Regionals, and went 8-2 in this last weekend's MTGO PTQ, losing to Dredge in the quarters. I've also played about 30 leagues with the deck too.
Cheers!
edit: For what it's worth, Dredge got a bit lucky to beat me in the PTQ. I think it's somewhat close if you're not running Grafdigger's Cage, but my build (with 2 Anafenza, 2 Cage in the sideboard) is probably slightly favored.
I don't think Ana is needed for Dredge, which is a good MU anyway. I don't get how Dredge can reasonably beat Humans outside of goldfishes every game. Staticaster wrecks half of their creatures, Crusader or Auriok Champion are almost uneabtable no matter which you choose, Mantis & Freebooters beat Narcomoebas in the air, Ref Mage & Champs & Lieuts beat Amalgams, and finally Med Mage can stop Imps & Conflags, the only annoying spells in the MU.
GG for your perfs !
I totally agree with you about Anafenza and Dredge. I actually think she's a touch too slow in that matchup, especially if you are on the draw and you don't have a turn 1 Noble Hierarch. But I think she's definitely worth bringing in anyways.
I really have her in my sideboard for the Lightning Bolt/Anger of the Gods matchups, such as UR Breach and Titanshift, though I have trimmed down to only 1.
For what it's worth, Dredge also has Lightning Axe, Abrupt Decay, Vengeful Pharaoh, and Gnaw to the Bone as well. I think they should bring them all in, there can be situations where they cast Gnaw, go up to 40+ life, and have a Pharaoh in the graveyard. It's hard to kill them at that point, either you need to amass a monster army and kill them in one swing or you need to wait and deck them.
I had a game in one of those videos where I had a turn 1 or turn 2 Cage, and then a turn 2 or turn 3 Meddling Mage naming Abrupt Decay. My opponent had both Lightning Axe and Abrupt Decay in their hand and ended up beating me.
I had been thinking about Dark Confidant, and how much better he seems, I really agree with you here.
Really excited to soak this all in.
What are your thoughts on Hostage Taker? My local meta is filled with attrition matches a la Jund and Jeskai Geist, and I feel like he’s a house in the lategame when both players are top decking.
I like Dark Confidant a lot. I'm actually thinking about playing 4 in the 75, with 3 in the sideboard and 1 in the main over Mayor of Avabruck. Yes, he usually dies to everything, but that's why I want to have all 4! He becomes a must answer threat. I have found that versus the non-Snapcaster based attrition decks, you can tax their removal if you just go 1-for-1 with everything, and eventually you will stick a hard-to-remove threat like Mirran Crusader or a Dark Confidant. That said, you need to be really careful about not getting blown out by Damnation, Engineered Explosives, Maelstrom Pulse, Liliana, the Last Hope, Flaying Tendrils, etc.
Of course, sometimes it's just unavoidable and they topdeck one of these answers but that's Magic for you!
For what it's worth, I do like keeping Vial on 2 in these matchups because you can vial in Dark Confidant during their endstep or you can vial in Kitesail Freebooter during their draw step to try to hit their sorcery speed removal.
@Edelweiss
Hostage Taker is definitely a sweet card but I think 4 mana is just a bit too much. That said, I haven't tried it so go nuts! Another issue I have with Hostage Taker is that you have to be able to untap with him. So, yeah, you could vial him in, but your opponents will still have an opportunity to respond to the trigger before you can cast the creature that is being taken hostage. I think that Fiend Hunter might just be a cheaper, albeit less exciting option.
I won't sugarcoat it, attrition matchups are tough. These are decks that are designed to beat decks like ours. I'm running about 50% versus Junk/Jund, which I think is about right. Game 1, you just wanna jam all your creatures as fast as you can and hope you don't lose to a sweeper like Engineered Explosives and Maelstrom Pulse (I know Willy Edel posted a Junk list with THREE main deck Engineered Explosives!). Games 2 and 3 you have to be much more judicious about playing to the board. You need to thread the needle, so to speak: you need to be able to apply enough pressure to force your opponent into a situation where they have to respond, but you also need to avoid getting hit by too many 2-for-1s. I've found that Humans can usually endure maybe 1 or 2 2-for-1s, but not much more than that. (Also, if you are on the draw, be mindful that your turn 1 play might get Thoughtseized away! This means I am more likely to keep 3 land 4 creature spells with no 1-drops and less likely to keep 1 land, 1 Vial, 5 3-drop creature hands.)
Fortunately, we have something of a better plan versus UWR Control (no Spell Quellers, no Geist of Saint Traft): Grafdigger's Cage is very disruptive to their main plan, which is to use and re-use Snapcaster Mage against us. They tend to have less 2-for-1s than Junk, maybe like 1 Anger and 1 or 2 Supreme Verdict, and they don't force you to commit to the board as much because they don't have Tarmogoyfs or Grim Flayers or anything like that. Your smaller creatures are all threats to UWR: for example, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben gets stone-walled in the GBx attrition match-ups quickly because of Goyf, but she's basically always a threat versus UWR Control. Also, because UWR doesn't have access to Thoughtseize, they have to play countermagic, which can be really bad against us. Don't let them cash their Spell Snares and Mana Leaks against you in Game 1! Making those cards dead goes a long way to winning. I've found this matchup to be much more favorable than Jund/Junk.
With respect to UWR builds with Geist of Saint Traft and Spell Queller, this matchup is a lot easier. Geist really isn't very good versus us and our opponents don't really have many opportunities to attack us. These versions also tend to run less sweepers. Don't forget that Spell Queller doesn't actually counter your spell, it exiles it while it's on the stack (meaning, Cavern of Souls doesn't work!) Also be careful about attacking you 2/2s and 2/1s into open mana, since they might flash in Spell Queller as an Ambush Viper. I keep in some Reflector Mages post-board to bounce their Quellers.
Bringing this deck to the Baltimore Open for side events on Saturday and then the Philadelphia area RPTQ.
Cheers!
Was a good call. By drawing a sin collector I was able to pressure my opponent's removal far more easily and play around/prevent anger of the gods from hitting the table in order to win. It felt like I had much more control over the games when I drew it.
Played against jeskai tempo in a best of five match. Didn't actually drop a game. Small sample size I know, but I feel like I learnt something.
Anyway not much else to report. Just liking sin collector.