Can't speak for him but I tried it myself and it's pretty horrible. Even against burn you can't block with it the turn it comes down and by the time you want to actually attack with it it's bolted or searing blazed. Ive gone back to Kazandu Blademaster. A 2/2 First Strike Vigilance creature that can accidentally grow itself in multiples is actually fairly solid in our bad matchups of Burn and Elves.
The past two Fridays I played in local, 12-16 people events against a reasonably competitive metagame where basically everyone is running a different list. It's a pretty handy gauntlet when you're wanting to tune a list for a bigger event and don't modo (we also do Monday nights, I just didn't make it this week). Each event is four rounds. I went a combined 7-1 with my list with wins against Eldrazi Tron, Grixis Death's Shadow (x2), Monowhite Death & Taxes, Naya midrange (every now and again a "true brew" shows up), Dredge, and Jund. The one loss was to (UGH) Merfolk. Stinkin' fish. The fish match was winnable, I just screwed it up. Here is what I will be running in a PPTQ tomorrow:
Engineered Explosives have made their way back into the board. I wanted more removal for the Merfolk match and something that could blow up a Chalice set to one. This covers both nicely, and is just a good all-around card. It is also a house against that "Counters Company" list where every important card they have is CMC 2 (Duskwatch Recruiter, Vizier of the Remedies, Devoted Druid, etc).
The main deck seems pretty spot-on, so far. This is a format where there is literally no way to beat everything every time (which is a great thing for diversity), but a good bet is to be aggressive with a smidgen of disruption and take advantage of people trying to do the "cool and flashy" things. This deck achieves that well. I'll post an update with how my tourney went, probably by Monday.
***Anecdote: I was in a game three against a burn opponent a couple of weeks back and it was looking grim - opponent had just bolted me down to 2-3 life (effectively the same in this scenario) and suspended a rift bolt that was sure to kill me during his next upkeep. I had a good start myself, t1 dork into t2 Crusader, holding CoCo up on t3 (I was on the draw). Opponent at 18 life, tapped out, no blockers. I also had two Thalia's Lieutenants in hand. I played CoCo, knowing my out was very slim - I needed to hit another Crusader AND another Lieutenant. KA-CHING! Untapped, played the two other Lieutenants, swung in for 25 damage, and left my opponents' jaw firmly on the floor. Stealing games from burn is fun.
Glad to hear your list is working well. How'd you get on at the PPTQ?
Looking at your list I have a few questions - mainly because I'm developing a list which is quite similar but mine is Abzan (dark confidant, grim flayer etc).
1) how are you getting on with Thalia, guardian of thraben in the board? Particularly with CoCo and path?
2) Without horizon canopy, dark confidant or duskwatch recruiter do you find you end up in top deck mode quite a bit?
3) have you found not having any board wipe protection an issue? Or, considered return to the ranks?
4) your sideboard runs a high number of non-creatures. Assuming you don't board out CoCos you had many 'whiffs'?
5) I see from your report that you've beaten Tron. How do you normally get on versus the big mana decks?
6) would you make any maindeck changes?
Look forward to your response
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Other possible considerations: knight of reliquary - really wanted to find a slot in the deck for this, but running grim flayer means I need to run graveyard recursion like renegade rallier. mirran crusader - having had success with this card in Naya Devoted Company I wanted to include it. But without the option of giving trample it doesn't have the same appeal or benefits as anafenza, the foremost. Probably a sideboard card for DS Jund. Thalia, guardian of thraben - the inclusion of collected company makes me loathe to include this card, even if it will help with some match ups. If I was playing aether vial then I would be more likely to include it. Again, maybe a sideboard option. Abzan falconer - this is such a situational card, but could close out games pretty rapidly. Anyone tested this card?
Anyone got some initial thoughts?
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I ended up going 3-2-1 at the PPTQ. In order of round played:
1: Death & Taxes - win. While their fliers can be a problem, my larger creatures and CoCos are normally a bigger problem for them.
2: Storm - win. Turn two Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in game one was enough. Game two he never drew into a bolt to remove my turn two Ethersworn Canonist.
3: TitanShift - Loss. This is a bad matchup. Took a quick game one on the strength of Knight of the Reliquary and a well-timed Ghost Quarter on Valakut. Lost game two after a turn four Primeval Titan (as one often will). I did not draw a keepable hand in game three. Mulled to four cards, still didn't find land, but I wouldn't mull to three. Had to pass on my first turn, missing my land drop. That game did not go well for me.
4: G/W Value Town - Unintentional draw. Long game one which I was finally able to break open with Kessig Wolf Run, a Mirran Crusader, and three active Knight of the Reliquary that he tried valiantly to keep in check with Scavenging Ooze. Tried. Game two he got his KotR active along with Ramunap Excavator to start recurring Ghost Quarter and Scavenging Ooze to control my graveyard. We started game three with about two minutes left. On turn three I had CoCo into two Mirran Crusader while holding a Thalia's Lieutenant in hand, but time had just been called. Two more minutes and that match is most likely mine, but that's how it goes.
5: 5-Color Humans - Win. His list was... different. He only had the four Nobles as acceleration, he had Metallic Mimic, and his three-drops largely seemed worse than mine (Hanweir Garrison and Abzan Falconer seem suspect, although Reflector Mage has its' moments). I ran him over in two fairly quick games, largely due to turn one acceleration into turn two KotR that he just couldn't race. He also had weaker-than-average draws, even for his somewhat suspect list.
6: G/R Ponza - Loss. Win-and-in for top 8. In game one, I did not fetch a Forest turn one when I was on the draw and his turn two Blood Moon slowed me down long enough that he was able to get Inferno Titan into play. If I fetch Forest turn one, I can unload my hand that included multiple KotR, likely growing them past the point of his removal. Game two I decide to play Avacyn's Pilgrim turn one instead of Champion of the Parish. I end up losing my board and the match to Anger of the Gods because of my poor sequencing a couple of turns later.
Updated list:
I imagine I will put the second Ghost Quarter back in as soon as I figure out if I like Horizon Canopy or Westvale Abbey more. Five colorless is the limit at 23 lands for me.
Q&A Time - from Wesste
1) how are you getting on with Thalia, guardian of thraben in the board? Particularly with CoCo and path?
2) Without horizon canopy, dark confidant or duskwatch recruiter do you find you end up in top deck mode quite a bit?
3) have you found not having any board wipe protection an issue? Or, considered return to the ranks?
4) your sideboard runs a high number of non-creatures. Assuming you don't board out CoCos you had many 'whiffs'?
5) I see from your report that you've beaten Tron. How do you normally get on versus the big mana decks?
6) would you make any maindeck changes?
1. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is in the maindeck. She gives me a shot to win game one against some of the tougher matchups where Path to Exile is generally mediocre at best and can rot in our hand. I've found that in the fair matchups the land off PtE isn't as punishing, especially when you generally aren't going to cast one until turn four or five. She can also punish land-light keeps/mulligans more than most other two-drops in the history of the game. I will continue playing three copies MD so long as I am running the full set of eight mana dorks and 22-23 lands. It is, however, the creature that gets boarded out the most due to my spell-heavy sideboard and the desire to hit turn three Collected Company in some matchups.
2. More often I don't have time to deploy every card in hand, but occasionally that does happen. I think I am going to try to find room for one Horizon Canopy. Outside of infinite mana + Walking Ballista, I'm not a huge Duskwatch Recruiter fan. I'd rather run Tireless Tracker if I were after a card-advantage mana sink due to its' synergy with Knight of the Reliquary.
3. Yes. I have been punished heavily for not having sweeper protection. I would consider Return to the Ranks but it suffers two different problems: (a) the creatures I really want to return cost three. (b) Graveyard hate is already good (not great) against this version of the deck. I don't want my sideboard plan to be weak to what an opponent might be bringing in against me. Most of the sweepers I am losing to are in decks that Path to Exile is actively bad against. Since I am already splashing red, Boros Charm will be tried, and I imagine it will lead to some blowouts. A copy or two of Burrenton Forge-Tender might be necessary as well, but I really hope not.
4. I am at 29 creatures MD. I have run lists with as few as 24 and was happy with CoCo there, so there is some flexibility in the numbers. Most of the time CoCo whiffs there are lands involved, but CoCo just doesn't whiff often because it goes six deep. I will sideboard only what is necessary to minimize the chance of that happening. I will take out a CoCo or two if I have multiple really strong hosers to side into, but that is rare. I'm also fond of cutting a land on the draw.
5. Stony Silence + Ghost Quarter can give Tron lists fits, but if they ever get online I'm probably going to have a bad time. G/R big mana (Ponza, TitanShift) decks are much tougher. I think Blood Moon out of the board would help against Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and Tron with the added benefit of just cheesing other decks out. However, I don't think it's necessary, and it might actually hurt this deck's overall gameplan. I like my utility lands a lot. If I can maintain a board presence, the long game doesn't even matter. Boros Charm can help with this, while providing the option of much-needed reach.
6. I would cut one Ghost Quarter for a Horizon Canopy and one Forest for a Stomping Ground, and at that point it would make sense to cut the three Marsh Flats for three Arid Mesa. A utility land I am interested in trying out is Westvale Abbey. It does make human tokens and Ormendahl, Profane Prince can end some games quickly. I don't want to cut Gavony Township or Kessig Wolf Run, so it would be competing for a spot with either the second Ghost Quarter or Horizon Canopy. I like the MD otherwise. The sideboard, however, needed revision.
Hello Everyone, New to the forum and have registered to participate in this topic for the most part. I have recently started playing a Bant Humans deck in modern with a Black splash for some great sideboard cards. The deck is derived from a deck I played a standard tournament with. It has proven to be quite good in the modern midrange matchups. It does lack in the faster aggro/combo matches though. while sideboard options are fine, it's not quite enough to rely on alone. which is why i'm starting with some main deck finetuning.
I play this as a three of, curving nicely from a T2 Metallic Mimic for a massive house on turn 3. With Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant in the deck it's almost never a dead card. Mana costs can be a little awkward at times without Cavern of Souls in a >3 colour list.
Dropping the semi lord Metallic Mimic and Renegade Rallier for some main deck hate Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Thalia, Heretic Cathar. I have a feeling this will improve on early disruption of fast creature/spell/combo/GY decks, but taking away some of the midrange prowess I need vs. big eldrazi decks. Add a pair of Avacyn's Pilgrim to gain back some ramp. What do you think?
From your experience, does the red splash for Mantis Rider bring more in terms of other deck options over the black splash for Anafenza, the foremost?
Will Solemnity be a thing in modern? If so, what decks would run them and would you pack a good amount of Enchantment Hate in the board? Like Golgari Charm and War Priest of Thune. They do take important slots, but i have a feeling the card will mess with our gameplan pretty badly.
1. Maulfist Revolutionary isn't a bad card, it's just competing against a lot of other good cards for the 3 CMC slot. The trample is nice, though Maulfist is dependent upon having another card with a counter on it already to gain value from its ETB and on-death abilities. This is not unusual in a Humans deck, but it's not guaranteed, either. Mirran Crusader and Knight of the Reliquary can also have evasion (Crusader via protection, Knight via Kessig Wolf Run), a degree of resiliency, and the ability to punch for damage that exceeds their CMC.
2. Both Thalias and Avacyn's Pilgrim are all loosely part of a package. The Thalias together are effective against a huge swath of the format, though they both miss against hand-spewing creature-based aggro decks like Affinity. Running the Pilgrims is important to cast Big Thalia earlier, which is strongest T2 on the play, and it also helps you ease the tension between Thalia GoT & CoCo by hitting 5 mana if necessary. Because you have more dorks you can then shave some weaker 2 CMC humans and load on a few more good 3 CMC ones. If you aren't running 3+ Pilgrims you can get away with 2-3 Thalia GoT but I wouldn't bother with Big Thalia. Running CoCo, Path, and Reflector Mage already gives you some decent game against midrange decks. Rallier's value depends upon how many 2 CMC creatures you keep. If you move to the Pilgrim + 3-drop plan you'll end up shaving some 2-drops which weakens Rallier and makes Eternal Witness more attractive. Overall I'm not pushing you to adopt this package, I just want you make sure that you understand the downstream build decisions that come from it.
3. Mantis Rider is an excellent card, and perhaps equally important is Izzet Staticaster in the board. However, Avacyn's Pilgrim does not play well with Mantis Rider. Trading black for red and cutting Pilgrim (which admittedly is a weak card in and of itself) means cutting down 3 drops to 9-10, cutting Big Thalia / Kambal / Sin Collector, and adding more 2-drops. These 2-drops could be Meddling Mage (see Headminerve's lists), Metallic Mimic, Mayor, Baby Jace, etc.. the community hasn't really aligned on an optimal 2-drop yet. Most are usually OK, and even situationally decent, but none have been consistently incredible. I cut Mimic once I realized that it doesn't do anything off of CoCo.
The overall choice of red vs black is largely a meta call IMO. I personally think black usually does a bit better against control and unfair decks while red does better against affinity / infect and a few other small aggro decks, but you can build both lists to try to minimize their respective weaknesses. For instance, I'm running 2x Ceremonious Rejection to try to shore up WGUB's matchup against Affinity (and help with E-Tron). Conversely you can build WGUR lists with more Mana leaks in the side to help against unfair matchups. Finally, you have some lists that try to stick as closely to WG(u) as possible (see EpicEmpiricism's list above) -- this gives you the most consistent and painless experience, which can be just as valuable as either Red or Black.
4. Don't worry about Solemnity for now. In terms of enchantments be prepared with a plan against Blood Moon. I prefer Reclamation Sage or Qasali Pridemage to War Priest as the ability to hit artifacts and do double duty against Affinity etc is more important than being a human.
Yes. I find with Sunscourge Champion a more reliable lifegain source and it also plays better in the midrange and control MUs.
GBI is still a very good aggro creature but doesn't help the Burn MU consistently enough. It helps in most other aggro MUs though.
A 2/2 First Strike Vigilance creature that can accidentally grow itself in multiples is actually fairly solid in our bad matchups of Burn and Elves.
I doubt this is quite true. Burn reaches us and Elves comboes us out. Both decks will block, chump, stop attacking if you have a good board at some point, and grounders like Blademasters are not particularly stellar on a stall board. It still eats both Searing B's and can't get past a pumpable Swiftspear. However I can see the times where it shines.
The only way to beat Burn is to gain life and cast Cocos (= life or disruption or good clock) in the same game. Elves looks more like an even MU but we can't beat a goldfish without something like Staticaster early. Very similar to Affinity in my experience.
As I saw a guy punish me with Delay in a Delver list, I tried it over Mana Leak in my SB. It's not the first time I talk about how counterspells can be good but also that they're all conditional. Leak is bad VS sweeper decks and ramp decks (they can pay 3), and also bad vs Vizier Company, which is an unfavorable MU because they can assemble the combo from too many angles. That's a fair amount of top decks in the format right now, right ?
I didn't realize that besides the fact my later lists run 4 Meddling Mages, the synergy is real. I've beaten Burn more than once thanks to a Mage stopping Rift Bolt. So what does the card say ? It says that I have three turns to beat my opponent from there, which is usually enough. For those who play Med Mage, I suggest you to try Delay in the SB, as probably the better counterspell available. Because even though you don't have a Mage ready, it's still unconditional.
About Meddling Mage, I'd like to have a discussion with players who prefer Thalia, Guardian of Thraben over it. For some of you , it makes sense because you run no blue (or SB only), but for the ones who run blue MD, what's the appeal ? I wish you enlighten me in what MUs Thalia is great (not just good) G1, becasue I feel like Mage plays in the exact same MUs and is overall better because opponents don't run (enough) removal spells to deal with either card G1.
The land-light openers are not an argument for this discussion, because Med Mage has also peripherical applications but all of these only compare in situations and not MUs, which is where I'd like to lead the discussion. For example I wouldn't use the Coco nonbo with Thalia to weigh in favour of Mage.
Good examples :
1/ Storm. If Thalia cancels Goblin Electromancer, is it better than Mage who forbids Grapeshot ?
2/ UWx Control. if Thalia delays Supreme Verdict, is it better than Mage who forbids Path to Exile ?
3/ Living End. If Thalia delays the Cascade by 2 land-drops, is it better than Mage that forbids LE ?
And so on.
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@headminerve: 1. It depends on whether or not they are running Empty the Warrens MD or not. If the answer is yes, Thalia is quite a bit better. Thalia is also marginally better against other removal because of that mana tax. In games two and three when they have almost certainly boarded into Lightning Bolt and Empty the Warrens, Mage loses even more value. Thalia taxes their entire deck games one, two, and three.
2. Yes. I want them to have to burn their PtEs and Verdicts early. Making it likely that a removal spell like PtE is in their hand after a Verdict is rarely a good line of play, and all the control decks have so much removal that MM is actively a bad card in those matchups historically. It is almost always just a harder-to cast Grizzly Bear in control and G/B/x matchups. Its' purpose is to be a combo hoser; it does not play well against a deck full of removal, card draw, and countermagic. Big edge to Thalia.
3. Meddling Mage can definitely be better in that spot, especially game 1. They normally run 2-3 (more often just 2) Beast Within MD as their only out to MM. After SB, they bring in Shriekmaw and potentially Dismember so neither is great. It's a matchup we don't win often because their deck specializes in beating decks like humans, almost no matter how they're built. Rest in Peace isn't even a guaranteed win in that matchup.
The main point, though, is that you know exactly what Thalia, Guardian of Thraben does every single time. Meddling Mage, a card I have won many a game with, just isn't great in game one scenarios unless you've seen your opponent's hand. Can there be situational times where it feels busted? Of course. More often, though, whatever you name with it the opponent will be fine with it and continue to play their game relatively unimpeded, whereas Thalia will always tax every single noncreature spell they play. The argument against MM becomes even stronger after decks know it's there. Almost every combo deck in modern has a plan B to go around MM games 2 & 3. Meddling Mage could very well cost you games at that point and be actively bad for your win percentage. I love the card, but I don't think it's quite "there" in modern currently.
This post is about a deck idea that is just for fun and is certainly not ready for competitive action. It's a different way to take the tribal theme that has some nifty interactions. This is just a prototype list, very phase one. I'm sure I have missed many potential inclusions that would significantly improve it. It's quite "Sam Black-ish", if you will. Lots of dies triggers and tokens. Investing much thought into a sideboard when I don't even know what the main deck will end up looking like seems kind of pointless, but not entirely without merit.
It's basically just an Aristocrats-style deck that wants to abuse the pretty awesome potential of Grim Haruspex, Xathrid Necromancer, Teysa, Orzhov Scion, and Liliana, Heretical Healer with fast mana, creatures that leave a board presence behind postmortem, and a land that has the potential to completely ruin peoples' days. The synergies in this deck are abundant and really cool if you like sacrificing creatures for value. Westvale Abbey is hilarious. Cartel Aristocrat in conjunction with Zulaport Cutthroat can provide some serious reach, and people will play differently if they're afraid of Westvale Abbey flipping into Ormendahl, Profane Prince. Collected Company is here yet again because of how well it supports this type of strategy. This deck will be weak to Rest In Peace, Leyline of the Void, and Anger of the Gods so I imagine something like Golgari Charm might be an all-star out of the board. Not sure what else would belong other than some Leyline of the Void of our own. Vault of the Archangel seems pretty legit in a list like this, too. I'm eager to see if Teysa, Orzhov Scion is worth anything or if it's "too cute". I chose Collected Company over something like Return to the Ranks because the strength of the three-drops in a list like this is too much to ignore. CoCo is also superior against graveyard hate. Anyways, just another brew.
As I saw a guy punish me with Delay in a Delver list, I tried it over Mana Leak in my SB. It's not the first time I talk about how counterspells can be good but also that they're all conditional. Leak is bad VS sweeper decks and ramp decks (they can pay 3), and also bad vs Vizier Company, which is an unfavorable MU because they can assemble the combo from too many angles. That's a fair amount of top decks in the format right now, right ?
I run 4 Negate in my Mantis Rider build and haven't looked back. It hits the stuff I need to hit, unconditionally. I've played against a few of the Abzan combo decks and it usually comes down to whether or not they can assemble the combo before I smack the crap outta them. Reflector Mage does a great job at disrupting.
I've been experimenting with this list ever since Shadows spoiled TL, but I never made an account until recently. As of recent, with the advent of GY strategies taking over the format, I've been running MB Anafenza, the Foremost. She can easily single handily win you the game against Dredge, and really pulls you ahead in the race against Death's Shadow or any sort of value Delirium strategy. She also has some neat little tricks with Mana dorks and dodges pain in the butts such as Anger of the Gods and Sweltering Suns.
A card I've run in the past is Grand Abolisher. What are thoughts and opinions on that in the metagame as it stands?
1. Maulfist Revolutionary isn't a bad card, it's just competing against a lot of other good cards for the 3 CMC slot. The trample is nice, though Maulfist is dependent upon having another card with a counter on it already to gain value from its ETB and on-death abilities. This is not unusual in a Humans deck, but it's not guaranteed, either. Mirran Crusader and Knight of the Reliquary can also have evasion (Crusader via protection, Knight via Kessig Wolf Run), a degree of resiliency, and the ability to punch for damage that exceeds their CMC.
2. Both Thalias and Avacyn's Pilgrim are all loosely part of a package. The Thalias together are effective against a huge swath of the format, though they both miss against hand-spewing creature-based aggro decks like Affinity. Running the Pilgrims is important to cast Big Thalia earlier, which is strongest T2 on the play, and it also helps you ease the tension between Thalia GoT & CoCo by hitting 5 mana if necessary. Because you have more dorks you can then shave some weaker 2 CMC humans and load on a few more good 3 CMC ones. If you aren't running 3+ Pilgrims you can get away with 2-3 Thalia GoT but I wouldn't bother with Big Thalia. Running CoCo, Path, and Reflector Mage already gives you some decent game against midrange decks. Rallier's value depends upon how many 2 CMC creatures you keep. If you move to the Pilgrim + 3-drop plan you'll end up shaving some 2-drops which weakens Rallier and makes Eternal Witness more attractive. Overall I'm not pushing you to adopt this package, I just want you make sure that you understand the downstream build decisions that come from it.
3. Mantis Rider is an excellent card, and perhaps equally important is Izzet Staticaster in the board. However, Avacyn's Pilgrim does not play well with Mantis Rider. Trading black for red and cutting Pilgrim (which admittedly is a weak card in and of itself) means cutting down 3 drops to 9-10, cutting Big Thalia / Kambal / Sin Collector, and adding more 2-drops. These 2-drops could be Meddling Mage (see Headminerve's lists), Metallic Mimic, Mayor, Baby Jace, etc.. the community hasn't really aligned on an optimal 2-drop yet. Most are usually OK, and even situationally decent, but none have been consistently incredible. I cut Mimic once I realized that it doesn't do anything off of CoCo.
The overall choice of red vs black is largely a meta call IMO. I personally think black usually does a bit better against control and unfair decks while red does better against affinity / infect and a few other small aggro decks, but you can build both lists to try to minimize their respective weaknesses. For instance, I'm running 2x Ceremonious Rejection to try to shore up WGUB's matchup against Affinity (and help with E-Tron). Conversely you can build WGUR lists with more Mana leaks in the side to help against unfair matchups. Finally, you have some lists that try to stick as closely to WG(u) as possible (see EpicEmpiricism's list above) -- this gives you the most consistent and painless experience, which can be just as valuable as either Red or Black.
4. Don't worry about Solemnity for now. In terms of enchantments be prepared with a plan against Blood Moon. I prefer Reclamation Sage or Qasali Pridemage to War Priest as the ability to hit artifacts and do double duty against Affinity etc is more important than being a human.
Thank you so much for this detailed reply and warm welcome.
I have a lot of eldrazi builds in my local group and izzet staticaster is a card which I would prefer to orzhov pontiff vs. Drowner of hope control shananigans, while it comveniently takes care of elves ands spirit tokens.
I've been experimenting with this list ever since Shadows spoiled TL, but I never made an account until recently. As of recent, with the advent of GY strategies taking over the format, I've been running MB Anafenza, the Foremost. She can easily single handily win you the game against Dredge, and really pulls you ahead in the race against Death's Shadow or any sort of value Delirium strategy. She also has some neat little tricks with Mana dorks and dodges pain in the butts such as Anger of the Gods and Sweltering Suns.
A card I've run in the past is Grand Abolisher. What are thoughts and opinions on that in the metagame as it stands?
Looks alot like what i had in mind for an Anafenza, the foremost Build. I have been goldfishing with a similar list and looks like it does stop/slow down most of the graveyard based decks on turn two. possibly with the backup from the board in the form of rest in peace
I doubt because Anafenza, the foremost and mantis rider on their own don't stop nor trade with the big guys of the format. i.e. Reality Smasher or one of the big delvers. I admid, with Maulfist revolutionary it's situational, but it has a pretty high ceiling at 3cmc and has won me the late game more often then not. Too bad it needs metallic mimic to be REALY good.
Edit: I guess they all need help from other cards to withstand the big guys.
I have access to the cards to switch between red and black splash and will definatly try both!
Yes, that is its ETB effect, AND dies effect.
The ceiling is when it enters the battlefield with Metallic Mimic in play, you can stack the triggers in such a way that it becomes a 5/5 trample on turn 3. It's a shame realy that Metallic Mimic doesn't work with Collected Company. It does however work with Thalia's Lieutenant when both are hit off of Collected Company
The floor is a 3/3 trample and in between you have a "lord for one". Not excactly shabby by my book.
I run 4 Negate in my Mantis Rider build and haven't looked back. It hits the stuff I need to hit, unconditionally. I've played against a few of the Abzan combo decks and it usually comes down to whether or not they can assemble the combo before I smack the crap outta them. Reflector Mage does a great job at disrupting
I used to play Negate as well but switched to Leak because PrimeTime and Eldrazis were very interesting to counter in thos rampy MUs. lately, it hits hardcast creatures in Coco mirrors as well, which is relevant.
Now the problem being those decks can have enough mana to pay for Leak, Delay becomes more attractive to me.
I love the card, but I don't think it's quite "there" in modern currently.
I tend to disagree with you on this, but i like your input on Thalia too. I'll play with a 2/2 split from now on and see how it goes. Since I'm currently running 8 dorks for a slightly higer curve (11 3-drops), and I'm enjoying the Channeler-SSC package, the whole thing should work out.
A card I've run in the past is Grand Abolisher. What are thoughts and opinions on that in the metagame as it stands?
It's an interesting card I always have in mind but never find room for. The format has more draw-go decks right now, but it seems still a bit narrow for now. It might be a great tool for lists that don't splash a 3rd/4th colour, I don't know.
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A card I've run in the past is Grand Abolisher. What are thoughts and opinions on that in the metagame as it stands?
I'm not a huge fan of it. It's double white, which in a bit harsh/painful when both your black and your blue shock are whiteless, additionally, most decks don't absolutely need to cast much other than counterspells (when you're already running 4 Cavern of Souls') since we're a pretty fair deck with little haste or "I win if I'm not disrupted at instant speed" plays.
It has merits against control decks, combos that can go off at instant speed (Chord decks, Ad Naus), decks with instant speed tempo cards (Vapor Snag, Cryptic Command, Angel's Grace, Aether Vial, Oblivion Stone, etc...). It's a card noone expects, so the surprise effect is very punishing against players who want to get the biggest tempo boost possible in tight games.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
A thing you all are forgetting is that Abolisher makes the removal decks (Jund, Abzan, etc) play at our speed. It also ensures main phase Companies when there's a question on if they will resolve, but I understand the criticism. It's drifted in and out of the deck (be it MB or SB) with me for a while.
Really glad I found this forum and this thread in particular, it has been great reading through so many decklists and ideas for Humans.
I started Modern a few months ago with a budget mono White Humans list, as I had a good chunk of it from playing Humans in Origins and current standard. It is fun but lacking in staying power and closers. I decided to make the investment in Humans Company and am currently running the following list;
As I'm new to the deck and format I had a couple of questions I was hoping someone could answer;
1. Mana base - Green White duals.
I've just switched from 2 Sunpetal Grove to 2 Razorverge Thicket. I switched from Sunpetal Groves to avoid problematic opening hands with a Grove and a Cavern of Souls alongside a mana dork and a 3 drop, but Thicket is worse off the top as land number 4, particularly when you want to Collected Company. Is it just a case of picking your drawback, and that an untapped land early is better than the turn 4 CoCo?
1b. Mana Base - Shocks.
Am I running too many? I know most other lists are running Mana Confluence when they move towards 4 colours, but I feel that the 1 Anafenza main and 2 Kambal in the side are manageable with a single black source and the 4 Caverns. The only obvious missing land is a Gavony Township, which I haven't gone for as I was concerned about a colourless land in such a colour intensive deck, particularly on a mulligan. Should one or two of the Temple Gardens be non-shock duals, with the drawbacks I listed above?
2. Sideboard
This is the biggest stumbling block for me due to my lack of experience in Modern. I feel fine playing against 'fair' decks, but I'm finding certain matchups very difficult. What do Humans have access to to help us versus;
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Heirarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mirran Crusader
Spells
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
3 Forest
2 Plains
3 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Gavony Township
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Auriok Champion
2 Ethersworn Canonist
Engineered Explosives have made their way back into the board. I wanted more removal for the Merfolk match and something that could blow up a Chalice set to one. This covers both nicely, and is just a good all-around card. It is also a house against that "Counters Company" list where every important card they have is CMC 2 (Duskwatch Recruiter, Vizier of the Remedies, Devoted Druid, etc).
The main deck seems pretty spot-on, so far. This is a format where there is literally no way to beat everything every time (which is a great thing for diversity), but a good bet is to be aggressive with a smidgen of disruption and take advantage of people trying to do the "cool and flashy" things. This deck achieves that well. I'll post an update with how my tourney went, probably by Monday.
***Anecdote: I was in a game three against a burn opponent a couple of weeks back and it was looking grim - opponent had just bolted me down to 2-3 life (effectively the same in this scenario) and suspended a rift bolt that was sure to kill me during his next upkeep. I had a good start myself, t1 dork into t2 Crusader, holding CoCo up on t3 (I was on the draw). Opponent at 18 life, tapped out, no blockers. I also had two Thalia's Lieutenants in hand. I played CoCo, knowing my out was very slim - I needed to hit another Crusader AND another Lieutenant. KA-CHING! Untapped, played the two other Lieutenants, swung in for 25 damage, and left my opponents' jaw firmly on the floor. Stealing games from burn is fun.
Looking at your list I have a few questions - mainly because I'm developing a list which is quite similar but mine is Abzan (dark confidant, grim flayer etc).
1) how are you getting on with Thalia, guardian of thraben in the board? Particularly with CoCo and path?
2) Without horizon canopy, dark confidant or duskwatch recruiter do you find you end up in top deck mode quite a bit?
3) have you found not having any board wipe protection an issue? Or, considered return to the ranks?
4) your sideboard runs a high number of non-creatures. Assuming you don't board out CoCos you had many 'whiffs'?
5) I see from your report that you've beaten Tron. How do you normally get on versus the big mana decks?
6) would you make any maindeck changes?
Look forward to your response
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
2 avacyn pilgrim
4 champion of the parish
3 noble hierarch
2 duskwatch recruiter
3 dark confidant
4 grim flayer
3 mayor of avabruck
4 Thalia's lieutenant
1 Anafenza, the foremost
3 eternal witness
3 renegade rallier
1 xathrid necromancer
2 path to exile
3 inquisition of kozilek
4 collected company
Land
4 windswept Heath
3 marsh flats
2 horizon canopy
2 Gavony township
2 temple garden
1 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 forest
1 plains
1 swamp
Other possible considerations:
knight of reliquary - really wanted to find a slot in the deck for this, but running grim flayer means I need to run graveyard recursion like renegade rallier.
mirran crusader - having had success with this card in Naya Devoted Company I wanted to include it. But without the option of giving trample it doesn't have the same appeal or benefits as anafenza, the foremost. Probably a sideboard card for DS Jund.
Thalia, guardian of thraben - the inclusion of collected company makes me loathe to include this card, even if it will help with some match ups. If I was playing aether vial then I would be more likely to include it. Again, maybe a sideboard option.
Abzan falconer - this is such a situational card, but could close out games pretty rapidly. Anyone tested this card?
Anyone got some initial thoughts?
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
1: Death & Taxes - win. While their fliers can be a problem, my larger creatures and CoCos are normally a bigger problem for them.
2: Storm - win. Turn two Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in game one was enough. Game two he never drew into a bolt to remove my turn two Ethersworn Canonist.
3: TitanShift - Loss. This is a bad matchup. Took a quick game one on the strength of Knight of the Reliquary and a well-timed Ghost Quarter on Valakut. Lost game two after a turn four Primeval Titan (as one often will). I did not draw a keepable hand in game three. Mulled to four cards, still didn't find land, but I wouldn't mull to three. Had to pass on my first turn, missing my land drop. That game did not go well for me.
4: G/W Value Town - Unintentional draw. Long game one which I was finally able to break open with Kessig Wolf Run, a Mirran Crusader, and three active Knight of the Reliquary that he tried valiantly to keep in check with Scavenging Ooze. Tried. Game two he got his KotR active along with Ramunap Excavator to start recurring Ghost Quarter and Scavenging Ooze to control my graveyard. We started game three with about two minutes left. On turn three I had CoCo into two Mirran Crusader while holding a Thalia's Lieutenant in hand, but time had just been called. Two more minutes and that match is most likely mine, but that's how it goes.
5: 5-Color Humans - Win. His list was... different. He only had the four Nobles as acceleration, he had Metallic Mimic, and his three-drops largely seemed worse than mine (Hanweir Garrison and Abzan Falconer seem suspect, although Reflector Mage has its' moments). I ran him over in two fairly quick games, largely due to turn one acceleration into turn two KotR that he just couldn't race. He also had weaker-than-average draws, even for his somewhat suspect list.
6: G/R Ponza - Loss. Win-and-in for top 8. In game one, I did not fetch a Forest turn one when I was on the draw and his turn two Blood Moon slowed me down long enough that he was able to get Inferno Titan into play. If I fetch Forest turn one, I can unload my hand that included multiple KotR, likely growing them past the point of his removal. Game two I decide to play Avacyn's Pilgrim turn one instead of Champion of the Parish. I end up losing my board and the match to Anger of the Gods because of my poor sequencing a couple of turns later.
Updated list:
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Heirarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Eternal Witness
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mirran Crusader
Spells
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
Lands
2 Forest
2 Plains
3 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Westvale Abbey
2 Blessed Alliance
3 Boros Charm
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Auriok Champion
2 Ethersworn Canonist
I imagine I will put the second Ghost Quarter back in as soon as I figure out if I like Horizon Canopy or Westvale Abbey more. Five colorless is the limit at 23 lands for me.
Q&A Time - from Wesste
1. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is in the maindeck. She gives me a shot to win game one against some of the tougher matchups where Path to Exile is generally mediocre at best and can rot in our hand. I've found that in the fair matchups the land off PtE isn't as punishing, especially when you generally aren't going to cast one until turn four or five. She can also punish land-light keeps/mulligans more than most other two-drops in the history of the game. I will continue playing three copies MD so long as I am running the full set of eight mana dorks and 22-23 lands. It is, however, the creature that gets boarded out the most due to my spell-heavy sideboard and the desire to hit turn three Collected Company in some matchups.
2. More often I don't have time to deploy every card in hand, but occasionally that does happen. I think I am going to try to find room for one Horizon Canopy. Outside of infinite mana + Walking Ballista, I'm not a huge Duskwatch Recruiter fan. I'd rather run Tireless Tracker if I were after a card-advantage mana sink due to its' synergy with Knight of the Reliquary.
3. Yes. I have been punished heavily for not having sweeper protection. I would consider Return to the Ranks but it suffers two different problems: (a) the creatures I really want to return cost three. (b) Graveyard hate is already good (not great) against this version of the deck. I don't want my sideboard plan to be weak to what an opponent might be bringing in against me. Most of the sweepers I am losing to are in decks that Path to Exile is actively bad against. Since I am already splashing red, Boros Charm will be tried, and I imagine it will lead to some blowouts. A copy or two of Burrenton Forge-Tender might be necessary as well, but I really hope not.
4. I am at 29 creatures MD. I have run lists with as few as 24 and was happy with CoCo there, so there is some flexibility in the numbers. Most of the time CoCo whiffs there are lands involved, but CoCo just doesn't whiff often because it goes six deep. I will sideboard only what is necessary to minimize the chance of that happening. I will take out a CoCo or two if I have multiple really strong hosers to side into, but that is rare. I'm also fond of cutting a land on the draw.
5. Stony Silence + Ghost Quarter can give Tron lists fits, but if they ever get online I'm probably going to have a bad time. G/R big mana (Ponza, TitanShift) decks are much tougher. I think Blood Moon out of the board would help against Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and Tron with the added benefit of just cheesing other decks out. However, I don't think it's necessary, and it might actually hurt this deck's overall gameplan. I like my utility lands a lot. If I can maintain a board presence, the long game doesn't even matter. Boros Charm can help with this, while providing the option of much-needed reach.
6. I would cut one Ghost Quarter for a Horizon Canopy and one Forest for a Stomping Ground, and at that point it would make sense to cut the three Marsh Flats for three Arid Mesa. A utility land I am interested in trying out is Westvale Abbey. It does make human tokens and Ormendahl, Profane Prince can end some games quickly. I don't want to cut Gavony Township or Kessig Wolf Run, so it would be competing for a spot with either the second Ghost Quarter or Horizon Canopy. I like the MD otherwise. The sideboard, however, needed revision.
I have a few questions after reading this topic:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Metallic Mimic
1 Phantasmal Image
3 Maulfist Revolutionary
3 Renegade Rallier
4 Reflector Mage
4 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Temple Garden
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Forest
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
2 Meddling Mage
1 War Priest of Thune
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
Looking forward to your reactions!
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
1. Maulfist Revolutionary isn't a bad card, it's just competing against a lot of other good cards for the 3 CMC slot. The trample is nice, though Maulfist is dependent upon having another card with a counter on it already to gain value from its ETB and on-death abilities. This is not unusual in a Humans deck, but it's not guaranteed, either. Mirran Crusader and Knight of the Reliquary can also have evasion (Crusader via protection, Knight via Kessig Wolf Run), a degree of resiliency, and the ability to punch for damage that exceeds their CMC.
2. Both Thalias and Avacyn's Pilgrim are all loosely part of a package. The Thalias together are effective against a huge swath of the format, though they both miss against hand-spewing creature-based aggro decks like Affinity. Running the Pilgrims is important to cast Big Thalia earlier, which is strongest T2 on the play, and it also helps you ease the tension between Thalia GoT & CoCo by hitting 5 mana if necessary. Because you have more dorks you can then shave some weaker 2 CMC humans and load on a few more good 3 CMC ones. If you aren't running 3+ Pilgrims you can get away with 2-3 Thalia GoT but I wouldn't bother with Big Thalia. Running CoCo, Path, and Reflector Mage already gives you some decent game against midrange decks. Rallier's value depends upon how many 2 CMC creatures you keep. If you move to the Pilgrim + 3-drop plan you'll end up shaving some 2-drops which weakens Rallier and makes Eternal Witness more attractive. Overall I'm not pushing you to adopt this package, I just want you make sure that you understand the downstream build decisions that come from it.
3. Mantis Rider is an excellent card, and perhaps equally important is Izzet Staticaster in the board. However, Avacyn's Pilgrim does not play well with Mantis Rider. Trading black for red and cutting Pilgrim (which admittedly is a weak card in and of itself) means cutting down 3 drops to 9-10, cutting Big Thalia / Kambal / Sin Collector, and adding more 2-drops. These 2-drops could be Meddling Mage (see Headminerve's lists), Metallic Mimic, Mayor, Baby Jace, etc.. the community hasn't really aligned on an optimal 2-drop yet. Most are usually OK, and even situationally decent, but none have been consistently incredible. I cut Mimic once I realized that it doesn't do anything off of CoCo.
The overall choice of red vs black is largely a meta call IMO. I personally think black usually does a bit better against control and unfair decks while red does better against affinity / infect and a few other small aggro decks, but you can build both lists to try to minimize their respective weaknesses. For instance, I'm running 2x Ceremonious Rejection to try to shore up WGUB's matchup against Affinity (and help with E-Tron). Conversely you can build WGUR lists with more Mana leaks in the side to help against unfair matchups. Finally, you have some lists that try to stick as closely to WG(u) as possible (see EpicEmpiricism's list above) -- this gives you the most consistent and painless experience, which can be just as valuable as either Red or Black.
4. Don't worry about Solemnity for now. In terms of enchantments be prepared with a plan against Blood Moon. I prefer Reclamation Sage or Qasali Pridemage to War Priest as the ability to hit artifacts and do double duty against Affinity etc is more important than being a human.
Yes. I find with Sunscourge Champion a more reliable lifegain source and it also plays better in the midrange and control MUs.
GBI is still a very good aggro creature but doesn't help the Burn MU consistently enough. It helps in most other aggro MUs though.
I doubt this is quite true. Burn reaches us and Elves comboes us out. Both decks will block, chump, stop attacking if you have a good board at some point, and grounders like Blademasters are not particularly stellar on a stall board. It still eats both Searing B's and can't get past a pumpable Swiftspear. However I can see the times where it shines.
The only way to beat Burn is to gain life and cast Cocos (= life or disruption or good clock) in the same game. Elves looks more like an even MU but we can't beat a goldfish without something like Staticaster early. Very similar to Affinity in my experience.
As I saw a guy punish me with Delay in a Delver list, I tried it over Mana Leak in my SB. It's not the first time I talk about how counterspells can be good but also that they're all conditional. Leak is bad VS sweeper decks and ramp decks (they can pay 3), and also bad vs Vizier Company, which is an unfavorable MU because they can assemble the combo from too many angles. That's a fair amount of top decks in the format right now, right ?
I didn't realize that besides the fact my later lists run 4 Meddling Mages, the synergy is real. I've beaten Burn more than once thanks to a Mage stopping Rift Bolt. So what does the card say ? It says that I have three turns to beat my opponent from there, which is usually enough. For those who play Med Mage, I suggest you to try Delay in the SB, as probably the better counterspell available. Because even though you don't have a Mage ready, it's still unconditional.
About Meddling Mage, I'd like to have a discussion with players who prefer Thalia, Guardian of Thraben over it. For some of you , it makes sense because you run no blue (or SB only), but for the ones who run blue MD, what's the appeal ? I wish you enlighten me in what MUs Thalia is great (not just good) G1, becasue I feel like Mage plays in the exact same MUs and is overall better because opponents don't run (enough) removal spells to deal with either card G1.
The land-light openers are not an argument for this discussion, because Med Mage has also peripherical applications but all of these only compare in situations and not MUs, which is where I'd like to lead the discussion. For example I wouldn't use the Coco nonbo with Thalia to weigh in favour of Mage.
Good examples :
1/ Storm. If Thalia cancels Goblin Electromancer, is it better than Mage who forbids Grapeshot ?
2/ UWx Control. if Thalia delays Supreme Verdict, is it better than Mage who forbids Path to Exile ?
3/ Living End. If Thalia delays the Cascade by 2 land-drops, is it better than Mage that forbids LE ?
And so on.
2. Yes. I want them to have to burn their PtEs and Verdicts early. Making it likely that a removal spell like PtE is in their hand after a Verdict is rarely a good line of play, and all the control decks have so much removal that MM is actively a bad card in those matchups historically. It is almost always just a harder-to cast Grizzly Bear in control and G/B/x matchups. Its' purpose is to be a combo hoser; it does not play well against a deck full of removal, card draw, and countermagic. Big edge to Thalia.
3. Meddling Mage can definitely be better in that spot, especially game 1. They normally run 2-3 (more often just 2) Beast Within MD as their only out to MM. After SB, they bring in Shriekmaw and potentially Dismember so neither is great. It's a matchup we don't win often because their deck specializes in beating decks like humans, almost no matter how they're built. Rest in Peace isn't even a guaranteed win in that matchup.
The main point, though, is that you know exactly what Thalia, Guardian of Thraben does every single time. Meddling Mage, a card I have won many a game with, just isn't great in game one scenarios unless you've seen your opponent's hand. Can there be situational times where it feels busted? Of course. More often, though, whatever you name with it the opponent will be fine with it and continue to play their game relatively unimpeded, whereas Thalia will always tax every single noncreature spell they play. The argument against MM becomes even stronger after decks know it's there. Almost every combo deck in modern has a plan B to go around MM games 2 & 3. Meddling Mage could very well cost you games at that point and be actively bad for your win percentage. I love the card, but I don't think it's quite "there" in modern currently.
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Noble Heirarch
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Doomed Dissenter
4 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Zulaport Cutthroat
2 Grim Haruspex
4 Xathrid Necromancer
2 Liliana, Heretical Healer
2 Teysa, Orzhov Scion
4 Collected Company
Lands
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Razorverge Thicket
3 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Westvale Abbey
1 Vault of the Archangel
It's basically just an Aristocrats-style deck that wants to abuse the pretty awesome potential of Grim Haruspex, Xathrid Necromancer, Teysa, Orzhov Scion, and Liliana, Heretical Healer with fast mana, creatures that leave a board presence behind postmortem, and a land that has the potential to completely ruin peoples' days. The synergies in this deck are abundant and really cool if you like sacrificing creatures for value. Westvale Abbey is hilarious. Cartel Aristocrat in conjunction with Zulaport Cutthroat can provide some serious reach, and people will play differently if they're afraid of Westvale Abbey flipping into Ormendahl, Profane Prince. Collected Company is here yet again because of how well it supports this type of strategy. This deck will be weak to Rest In Peace, Leyline of the Void, and Anger of the Gods so I imagine something like Golgari Charm might be an all-star out of the board. Not sure what else would belong other than some Leyline of the Void of our own. Vault of the Archangel seems pretty legit in a list like this, too. I'm eager to see if Teysa, Orzhov Scion is worth anything or if it's "too cute". I chose Collected Company over something like Return to the Ranks because the strength of the three-drops in a list like this is too much to ignore. CoCo is also superior against graveyard hate. Anyways, just another brew.
I run 4 Negate in my Mantis Rider build and haven't looked back. It hits the stuff I need to hit, unconditionally. I've played against a few of the Abzan combo decks and it usually comes down to whether or not they can assemble the combo before I smack the crap outta them. Reflector Mage does a great job at disrupting.
// 32 Creature
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Reflector Mage
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Sin Collector
2 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Collected Company
3 Path to Exile
// 21 Land
2 Plains
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
1 Gavony Township
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Mana Confluence
I've been experimenting with this list ever since Shadows spoiled TL, but I never made an account until recently. As of recent, with the advent of GY strategies taking over the format, I've been running MB Anafenza, the Foremost. She can easily single handily win you the game against Dredge, and really pulls you ahead in the race against Death's Shadow or any sort of value Delirium strategy. She also has some neat little tricks with Mana dorks and dodges pain in the butts such as Anger of the Gods and Sweltering Suns.
A card I've run in the past is Grand Abolisher. What are thoughts and opinions on that in the metagame as it stands?
Thank you so much for this detailed reply and warm welcome.
I have a lot of eldrazi builds in my local group and izzet staticaster is a card which I would prefer to orzhov pontiff vs. Drowner of hope control shananigans, while it comveniently takes care of elves ands spirit tokens.
Looks alot like what i had in mind for an Anafenza, the foremost Build. I have been goldfishing with a similar list and looks like it does stop/slow down most of the graveyard based decks on turn two. possibly with the backup from the board in the form of rest in peace
I doubt because Anafenza, the foremost and mantis rider on their own don't stop nor trade with the big guys of the format. i.e. Reality Smasher or one of the big delvers. I admid, with Maulfist revolutionary it's situational, but it has a pretty high ceiling at 3cmc and has won me the late game more often then not. Too bad it needs metallic mimic to be REALY good.
Edit: I guess they all need help from other cards to withstand the big guys.
I have access to the cards to switch between red and black splash and will definatly try both!
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
The ceiling is when it enters the battlefield with Metallic Mimic in play, you can stack the triggers in such a way that it becomes a 5/5 trample on turn 3. It's a shame realy that Metallic Mimic doesn't work with Collected Company. It does however work with Thalia's Lieutenant when both are hit off of Collected Company
The floor is a 3/3 trample and in between you have a "lord for one". Not excactly shabby by my book.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I used to play Negate as well but switched to Leak because PrimeTime and Eldrazis were very interesting to counter in thos rampy MUs. lately, it hits hardcast creatures in Coco mirrors as well, which is relevant.
Now the problem being those decks can have enough mana to pay for Leak, Delay becomes more attractive to me.
I tend to disagree with you on this, but i like your input on Thalia too. I'll play with a 2/2 split from now on and see how it goes. Since I'm currently running 8 dorks for a slightly higer curve (11 3-drops), and I'm enjoying the Channeler-SSC package, the whole thing should work out.
It's an interesting card I always have in mind but never find room for. The format has more draw-go decks right now, but it seems still a bit narrow for now. It might be a great tool for lists that don't splash a 3rd/4th colour, I don't know.
I'm not a huge fan of it. It's double white, which in a bit harsh/painful when both your black and your blue shock are whiteless, additionally, most decks don't absolutely need to cast much other than counterspells (when you're already running 4 Cavern of Souls') since we're a pretty fair deck with little haste or "I win if I'm not disrupted at instant speed" plays.
Really glad I found this forum and this thread in particular, it has been great reading through so many decklists and ideas for Humans.
I started Modern a few months ago with a budget mono White Humans list, as I had a good chunk of it from playing Humans in Origins and current standard. It is fun but lacking in staying power and closers. I decided to make the investment in Humans Company and am currently running the following list;
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
1 Abzan Falconer
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Eternal Witness
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Reflector Mage
4 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
Lands (21)
1 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Stony Silence
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Leyline of Sanctity
As I'm new to the deck and format I had a couple of questions I was hoping someone could answer;
1. Mana base - Green White duals.
I've just switched from 2 Sunpetal Grove to 2 Razorverge Thicket. I switched from Sunpetal Groves to avoid problematic opening hands with a Grove and a Cavern of Souls alongside a mana dork and a 3 drop, but Thicket is worse off the top as land number 4, particularly when you want to Collected Company. Is it just a case of picking your drawback, and that an untapped land early is better than the turn 4 CoCo?
1b. Mana Base - Shocks.
Am I running too many? I know most other lists are running Mana Confluence when they move towards 4 colours, but I feel that the 1 Anafenza main and 2 Kambal in the side are manageable with a single black source and the 4 Caverns. The only obvious missing land is a Gavony Township, which I haven't gone for as I was concerned about a colourless land in such a colour intensive deck, particularly on a mulligan. Should one or two of the Temple Gardens be non-shock duals, with the drawbacks I listed above?
2. Sideboard
This is the biggest stumbling block for me due to my lack of experience in Modern. I feel fine playing against 'fair' decks, but I'm finding certain matchups very difficult. What do Humans have access to to help us versus;
Thanks and sorry for the long post!