Also, has anyone given any look at Grand Abolisher? With Aether Vial it seems like it can be a decent damper to opposing control and midrange decks.
I haven't seen Grand Abolisher since he fell out of Standard. He could be useful in some match-ups but it's not that big of a deal to make your opponent wait until their turn to cast Lightning Bolt or Fatal Push. The spells that really kick Humans where it hurts - sweepers - are mostly sorceries any way.
I don't think it would hurt to test him out of the side-board especially against disgusting crap like UW Control, but it's not that big of deal for them to hold their Path to Exile until their turn. Still, I think this is the match-up where I would most want to try out the little guy.
If you read back the last few pages Lavinia is a possibility as an easier to cast but less effective Gaddock Teeg. Judith and Hero are duds though. Judith's 2nd text isn't as relevant as people think and her first effect just makes her a worse Mayor or Marshal. Hero is another pass I think since he is a non-bo with Aether vial and we don't have that many multi-colored cards to start with.
Grand Abolisher was dismissed in the way back. It just doesn't looking good next to our current hate bears.
Hey,
tried Jim's list this friday with some small changes: Temple Garden over Breeding Pool to have a better rate on casting my SB cards. Damping Sphere for all those Titan players...
Finished 3-1. Winning 2-1 against a 4c reanimator deck, 2-0 vs Jund and 2-0 vs Un-Storm. My loss was against Twinless Twin - Splinter Twin[/card] should stay banned!!!
Deck felt good. The manabase is a scatchy sometimes and could be hard against aggresive decks. Path was HUGE! The lack of Kitesail Freebooter wasn't as bad as I thought. She's a good card but I think you can race combo decks and the disruption from Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Meddling Mage is enough. Speaking of Thalia - I was not a fan of the 4th copy but I feel like she's to good in the current meta.
Fortunately I dodged UR Phoenix but I think Path and RiP are huge additions to a rather bad matchup.
Today I tested the deck against Abzan, Dredge and Affinity and the SB was awesome!
Will play this configuration for the next weeks and keep you up to date!
#notwin
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Modern: 5c Humans//Devoted Company
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
I'm having a really hard time against MONO G TRON, during my testing, both with 5C and HOT BANT.
I know we are supposed to "race" them, first of all, but... :
- what cards do you usually cut against them and why?
- what cards do you board in?
- what is your approach to the game?
Vs tron I keep mayor in 100% since we really want to race them. Our best hands are where they can't land turn 3 tron (or only get out a karn)
I usually cut reflector mage for path, and meddling for stony. Tron is a hard deck to use mage against (without kitesail) because all of their cards do the same thing.
Damping is hard maybe for me. I slows tron down but you can't count on it without a good clock.
Ovverall tron is a fairly tough match up post board as we need one our faster draws and we still lose to O-stone.
I see people often advice to race tron and while i do admit a clock is important, i feel the disruptive part of the deck get's you further ahead.
Game 1: Naming Karn blind with Meddling Mage is actually always right. This stops their best T3 play to which we are almost certain to loose. Kitesail Freebooter can be used to strip their best pieces against us and i would advise not to cut Reflector Mage since it's our best way to deal with Wurmcoil Engine. Another big card we loose to.
An ideal curve for me would be T1 Champion of the Parish, T2 Meddling Mage naming Karn, T3 Mantis Rider and follow this up with more disruption if possible. Don't drop anything other than more disruptive pieces or Thalia's Lieutenant for the T4 kill. Keep the big beats in your hand for when they do get to clear the board with either All is Dust or Ugin, The Spirit Dragon. After T4 Oblivion Stone can become tough, so it's important not to overextend.
I am not a Humans player. Can't stand the deck - in the sense that the deck I play has a horrible matchup and I feel like most of the time I'm not playing to win but just trying to stay alive (kudos to the deck! It can be a true monster)
I propose an exercise - what is Humans afraid of? What ruins your day when you see it on the other side of the battlefield? I'm trying to look for anti-Human tech, but I was wondering if there are any specific effects in particular the deck doesn't like in case I'm looking at it completely the wrong way. Maybe it can help with self-awareness of your own weaknesses? I kinda figured the pilots themselves might be a source of help, but I am fully half-expecting to be flamed to oblivion.
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xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
I am not a Humans player. Can't stand the deck - in the sense that the deck I play has a horrible matchup and I feel like most of the time I'm not playing to win but just trying to stay alive (kudos to the deck! It can be a true monster)
I propose an exercise - what is Humans afraid of? What ruins your day when you see it on the other side of the battlefield? I'm trying to look for anti-Human tech, but I was wondering if there are any specific effects in particular the deck doesn't like in case I'm looking at it completely the wrong way. Maybe it can help with self-awareness of your own weaknesses? I kinda figured the pilots themselves might be a source of help, but I am fully half-expecting to be flamed to oblivion.
I may be way out of line here, but Torpor Orb effects seem to be tough on Humans. I beat a Humans player largely on the back of Hushwing Gryff one game. The other game I won with a turn-two Loxodon Smiter. Exalted 4/4's swinging turn-three can give many decks problems.
Timely sweepers are another way of handling Humans; they don't seem to do well when they are Hellbent with an empty board-state. Languish can be a back-breaker - especially if one has a 4/5 or bigger Tarmogoyf in play.
The bad matchups for Humans as far as I can tell from my experience piloting the deck seem to be GX Tron (you can win this, but you need them to stumble or have the right mix of disruption + clock), Dredge (find hate or die, basically), and UWX Control (picks the synergies apart, and Humans doesn't have much in the way of reload mechanisms). Many other matchups are close, so it's hard to tell who's favored one way or the other, which is one of the deck's selling points - you have game against most things, it's up to you to make the most of it.
I've Always felt Jeskai control to be the worst. Their removal just lines up with what we try to do, and once in the late game they go 2 for 1 against us.
Currently, Thing in the Ice decks tend to be difficult if we don't manage to bounce it in time.
Timely sweepers are another way of handling Humans; they don't seem to do well when they are Hellbent with an empty board-state. Languish can be a back-breaker - especially if one has a 4/5 or bigger Tarmogoyf in play.
To be fair, Any deck would struggle against GBx midrange under these circumstances.
I've Always felt Jeskai control to be the worst. Their removal just lines up with what we try to do, and once in the late game they go 2 for 1 against us.
Currently, Thing in the Ice decks tend to be difficult if we don't manage to bounce it in time.
Timely sweepers are another way of handling Humans; they don't seem to do well when they are Hellbent with an empty board-state. Languish can be a back-breaker - especially if one has a 4/5 or bigger Tarmogoyf in play.
To be fair, Any deck would struggle against GBx midrange under these circumstances.
Languish is nearly useless against Eldrazi Tron, or Tron, for that matter. Or UW control. Or anything with Titan in the description. Actually only go-wide aggro strategies are severely affected.
Not too long ago, Languish saw virtually zero play in any Modern GBx deck. It was considered unplayable. It probably wouldn't see much play now if it weren't for Spirit decks or Selfless Spirit in particular.
Hi all, I was an active part of discussion in the early days of this thread but when the website got overhauled I kinda lost interest.
I know the best human deck is the 5C variant but that never intersted me. Is anyone running a Boros aggro version? I've been out for a while so am wondering if I've missed any really good cards?
My biggest concerns are whether I'm now running too many red creatures for Brave the Elements to be worth while? In it's place I'm wondering about Boros Charm, obviously still offers the protection but the reason I cut it a year or so ago was because it cost that one more mana that I wasn't able to spare early game. Now with Dauntless Bodyguard that doesn't worry me so much and Charms flexibility make sit quite appealing.
I also don't have a clue if my Side Deck is any good. What are the good decks I'm likely to face and what would you recommend for dealing with them?
Brave only works in a heavy white list. I'd drop them entirely if I were you.
I'd love to see a blue splash for Mantis Rider, because it's the best 3-drop without a doubt. Or a green splash for Burning-Tree Emissary so you can get those explosive starts. In black you have a ton of funsies to try too (Fireblade Artist and Judith being the latest additions).
But if you wanna stick to Boros (I don't understand why since you already invested in the Caverns), I'd suggest you to find a way to get evasion. Options are thin and underwhelming, but it may be a necessary evil. Also Thraben Inspector and Tajic, Legion's Edge may be worth testing.
I'll be honest, at this point you're playing a worse Zoo deck. We miss a synergistic way to make either Celebrant or Garrison devastating. I've tried both these cards (Boros and Naya variants) and it was more explosive but was too easy to disrupt or to block. Maybe in the future, a card will help those red 3-drops be even stronger !
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Brave only works in a heavy white list. I'd drop them entirely if I were you.
Sadly there is nothing else quite like Brave! The protection from board wipes is easier to replace but the evasion it provides to white creatures is almost unqiue. Despite that I do agree with you, my deck no longer contains a red splash, more like a red stream. Looks like I need to dig out my Boros Charms.
I'd suggest you to find a way to get evasion. Options are thin and underwhelming, but it may be a necessary evil. Also Thraben Inspector and Tajic, Legion's Edge may be worth testing.
Brave the Elements was my primary form of evasion but with that no longer fitting the mold perhaps I do need a re-think. Archetype of Aggression is the most obvious way of getting damage through that comes to mind. As you say, it's not a great option but does give another option.
I've used Thraben Inspector before and I might yet revert to it but Dauntless Bodyguard is a card I'm very excited to trial. I read back in the thread and saw that it was discounted for many of the other builds but think it has potential in mine. A 2/1 body is helpful on it's own and if I can use it to protect a Hanweir Garrison or Champion then happy days. What I like about it, especially in comparison to Mother of Runes, is that you can still attack with it, keeping pressure on whilst still having the option to sac it to save your bigger card. Not saying it is better that Mother, I know that it's not, but that is an advantage to it that I don't think should be over looked!
Definitely willing to try Tajic, Legion's Edge, the original Tajic was my finisher in the original standard version of this deck! I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy or two.
I'll be honest, at this point you're playing a worse Zoo deck. We miss a synergistic way to make either Celebrant or Garrison devastating. I've tried both these cards (Boros and Naya variants) and it was more explosive but was too easy to disrupt or to block. Maybe in the future, a card will help those red 3-drops be even stronger !
All of this is true, I guess when it comes down to it I'm not playing Boros Human because it's the best deck but because it's the only I enjoy playing the most, that said I'm still looking to improve, just within those perimeters.
Indeed! There is also Cavalry Pegasus that would give all my creatures flying! Certainly all three of the mentioned cards do give the deck an element of evasion. None are great, however.
Back to the 5C vs 4C conversation, I feel that without KCI in the mix and the rise of phoenix decks we want to go back to running freebooter and don't need the sideboard threats from white as much. What does everyone else think? Thalia is also likely to remain an all star.
I feel the decks we need to prep for post board are:
Phoenix (its a bad match up)
Hardened Scales
GBx midrange
To me that means that we want something like
2 Damping Sphere
2 knight of autumn
2 bugler
2 sin collector
For someone who has been out of the game for a while and doesn't know the meta could you unpack what kind of deck you would move bugler in against and what is it that makes it so effective?
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Boros Human Modern
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I haven't seen Grand Abolisher since he fell out of Standard. He could be useful in some match-ups but it's not that big of a deal to make your opponent wait until their turn to cast Lightning Bolt or Fatal Push. The spells that really kick Humans where it hurts - sweepers - are mostly sorceries any way.
I don't think it would hurt to test him out of the side-board especially against disgusting crap like UW Control, but it's not that big of deal for them to hold their Path to Exile until their turn. Still, I think this is the match-up where I would most want to try out the little guy.
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BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Grand Abolisher was dismissed in the way back. It just doesn't looking good next to our current hate bears.
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Meddling Mage
4x Phantasmal Image
3x Mayor of Avabruck
4x Reflector Mage
4x Mantis Rider
2x Militia Bugler
Lands:
2x Unclaimed Territory
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Horizon Canopy
4x Flooded Strand
1x Temple Garden
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Plains
1x Island
2x Stony Silence
2x Rest in Peace
2x Damping Sphere
2x Knight of Autumn
2x Auriok Champion
3x Path to Exile
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Izzet Staticaster
Hey,
tried Jim's list this friday with some small changes:
Temple Garden over Breeding Pool to have a better rate on casting my SB cards. Damping Sphere for all those Titan players...
Finished 3-1. Winning 2-1 against a 4c reanimator deck, 2-0 vs Jund and 2-0 vs Un-Storm. My loss was against Twinless Twin - Splinter Twin[/card] should stay banned!!!
Deck felt good. The manabase is a scatchy sometimes and could be hard against aggresive decks. Path was HUGE! The lack of Kitesail Freebooter wasn't as bad as I thought. She's a good card but I think you can race combo decks and the disruption from Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Meddling Mage is enough. Speaking of Thalia - I was not a fan of the 4th copy but I feel like she's to good in the current meta.
Fortunately I dodged UR Phoenix but I think Path and RiP are huge additions to a rather bad matchup.
Today I tested the deck against Abzan, Dredge and Affinity and the SB was awesome!
Will play this configuration for the next weeks and keep you up to date!
#notwin
Legacy: Maverick
Pauper: UB Delver
I'm having a really hard time against MONO G TRON, during my testing, both with 5C and HOT BANT.
I know we are supposed to "race" them, first of all, but... :
- what cards do you usually cut against them and why?
- what cards do you board in?
- what is your approach to the game?
My current HOT BANT list is:
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
2x Militia Bugler
4x Phantasmal Image
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Mayor of Avabruck
4x Meddling Mage
4x Reflector Mage
4x Mantis Rider
Lands:
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Breeding Pool
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Hallowed Fountain
4x Flooded Strand
2x Unclaimed Territory
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Horizon Canopy
2x Auriok Champion
3x Stony Silence
2x Rest in Peace
2x Path to Exile
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Knight of Autumn
2x Damping Sphere
- Is it worth to keep Mayor of Avabruck post-game 1?
- Do you keep Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or do you feel she loses use post-game 1? What about Meddling Mage and Reflector Mage?
- How do you value Stony Silence in this matchup? Is it better an artifact spot removal like Knight of Autumn? Or both together?
- Is Path to Exile too much in addition to Reflector Mage trying to deal with their creatures?
- Is Damping Sphere really that good as it seems, beside being useful against other decks (titan, storm, ... )?
Now I understand a little more the pair of Venser, Shaper Savant in Jim and David list, but I still not quite like the card (that damn 4 mana cost!).
Thank you all for the help
I usually cut reflector mage for path, and meddling for stony. Tron is a hard deck to use mage against (without kitesail) because all of their cards do the same thing.
Damping is hard maybe for me. I slows tron down but you can't count on it without a good clock.
Ovverall tron is a fairly tough match up post board as we need one our faster draws and we still lose to O-stone.
Game 1: Naming Karn blind with Meddling Mage is actually always right. This stops their best T3 play to which we are almost certain to loose.
Kitesail Freebooter can be used to strip their best pieces against us and i would advise not to cut Reflector Mage since it's our best way to deal with Wurmcoil Engine. Another big card we loose to.
An ideal curve for me would be T1 Champion of the Parish, T2 Meddling Mage naming Karn, T3 Mantis Rider and follow this up with more disruption if possible. Don't drop anything other than more disruptive pieces or Thalia's Lieutenant for the T4 kill. Keep the big beats in your hand for when they do get to clear the board with either All is Dust or Ugin, The Spirit Dragon. After T4 Oblivion Stone can become tough, so it's important not to overextend.
The best sideboard options are Gaddock Teeg and the new Lavinia, Azorius Renegade and when it's possible, Stony Silence. I would cut Aether Vial and always open with Noble/Champion to put some preassure on them.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I am not a Humans player. Can't stand the deck - in the sense that the deck I play has a horrible matchup and I feel like most of the time I'm not playing to win but just trying to stay alive (kudos to the deck! It can be a true monster)
I propose an exercise - what is Humans afraid of? What ruins your day when you see it on the other side of the battlefield? I'm trying to look for anti-Human tech, but I was wondering if there are any specific effects in particular the deck doesn't like in case I'm looking at it completely the wrong way. Maybe it can help with self-awareness of your own weaknesses? I kinda figured the pilots themselves might be a source of help, but I am fully half-expecting to be flamed to oblivion.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
I may be way out of line here, but Torpor Orb effects seem to be tough on Humans. I beat a Humans player largely on the back of Hushwing Gryff one game. The other game I won with a turn-two Loxodon Smiter. Exalted 4/4's swinging turn-three can give many decks problems.
Timely sweepers are another way of handling Humans; they don't seem to do well when they are Hellbent with an empty board-state. Languish can be a back-breaker - especially if one has a 4/5 or bigger Tarmogoyf in play.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
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Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Currently, Thing in the Ice decks tend to be difficult if we don't manage to bounce it in time.
To be fair, Any deck would struggle against GBx midrange under these circumstances.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Languish is nearly useless against Eldrazi Tron, or Tron, for that matter. Or UW control. Or anything with Titan in the description. Actually only go-wide aggro strategies are severely affected.
Not too long ago, Languish saw virtually zero play in any Modern GBx deck. It was considered unplayable. It probably wouldn't see much play now if it weren't for Spirit decks or Selfless Spirit in particular.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I know the best human deck is the 5C variant but that never intersted me. Is anyone running a Boros aggro version? I've been out for a while so am wondering if I've missed any really good cards?
The list I'm planning on running is:
4x Champion of the Parish
3x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3x Dauntless Bodyguard
1x Grim Lavamancer
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Metallic Mimic
4x Lightning Mauler
4x Hanweir Garrison
2x Silverblade Paladin
1x Combat Celebrant
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Path to Exile
2x Brave the Elements
Land:
4x Cavern of Souls
4x Arid Mesa
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Inspiring Vantage
1x Westvale Abbey
1x Slayers' Stronghold
4x Plains
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Auriok Champion
2x Magus of the Moon
1x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Repel the Abominable
2x Stony Silence
2x Rest in Peace
What do people think?
My biggest concerns are whether I'm now running too many red creatures for Brave the Elements to be worth while? In it's place I'm wondering about Boros Charm, obviously still offers the protection but the reason I cut it a year or so ago was because it cost that one more mana that I wasn't able to spare early game. Now with Dauntless Bodyguard that doesn't worry me so much and Charms flexibility make sit quite appealing.
I also don't have a clue if my Side Deck is any good. What are the good decks I'm likely to face and what would you recommend for dealing with them?
I'd love to see a blue splash for Mantis Rider, because it's the best 3-drop without a doubt. Or a green splash for Burning-Tree Emissary so you can get those explosive starts. In black you have a ton of funsies to try too (Fireblade Artist and Judith being the latest additions).
But if you wanna stick to Boros (I don't understand why since you already invested in the Caverns), I'd suggest you to find a way to get evasion. Options are thin and underwhelming, but it may be a necessary evil. Also Thraben Inspector and Tajic, Legion's Edge may be worth testing.
I'll be honest, at this point you're playing a worse Zoo deck. We miss a synergistic way to make either Celebrant or Garrison devastating. I've tried both these cards (Boros and Naya variants) and it was more explosive but was too easy to disrupt or to block. Maybe in the future, a card will help those red 3-drops be even stronger !
Ah, that's fair. I didn't parse it that way.
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BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
Sadly there is nothing else quite like Brave! The protection from board wipes is easier to replace but the evasion it provides to white creatures is almost unqiue. Despite that I do agree with you, my deck no longer contains a red splash, more like a red stream. Looks like I need to dig out my Boros Charms.
I do understand I'm being absurd, I just enjoy playing Boros colours and am committed to building the best deck I can within those limitations.
Brave the Elements was my primary form of evasion but with that no longer fitting the mold perhaps I do need a re-think. Archetype of Aggression is the most obvious way of getting damage through that comes to mind. As you say, it's not a great option but does give another option.
I've used Thraben Inspector before and I might yet revert to it but Dauntless Bodyguard is a card I'm very excited to trial. I read back in the thread and saw that it was discounted for many of the other builds but think it has potential in mine. A 2/1 body is helpful on it's own and if I can use it to protect a Hanweir Garrison or Champion then happy days. What I like about it, especially in comparison to Mother of Runes, is that you can still attack with it, keeping pressure on whilst still having the option to sac it to save your bigger card. Not saying it is better that Mother, I know that it's not, but that is an advantage to it that I don't think should be over looked!
Definitely willing to try Tajic, Legion's Edge, the original Tajic was my finisher in the original standard version of this deck! I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy or two.
All of this is true, I guess when it comes down to it I'm not playing Boros Human because it's the best deck but because it's the only I enjoy playing the most, that said I'm still looking to improve, just within those perimeters.
Any must haves you'd recommend for SD?
It was fun in Standard before and I see it's back for it's third stint there, but it's tough to see it work in Modern.
I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.
Frenzy-Affinity-Ghost Quarter-Rock-Tokens- RGWPhyrexian Zoo- WVial KnightsStandard:
BW Knights(Rotated)Pioneer: RW Knights - BW Rally Zombies - UW Heroes
Commander:WUG
Jenara, Asura of War- WGSigarda, Host of HeronsCasualties of economicsLegacy: Good-night, sweet prince. Mono-R Burn
I feel the decks we need to prep for post board are:
Phoenix (its a bad match up)
Hardened Scales
GBx midrange
To me that means that we want something like
2 Damping Sphere
2 knight of autumn
2 bugler
2 sin collector