Not good enough for Tier 1, but you may surprise the field the first few games. I did a couple 3-0 with a 4 colors CoCo/Vial Ally deck, so a Mono White Humans Soldiers deck may net you a lot of fun!
Correct me if I’m wrong. Mono white is more taxing and aggro where 5C is more disruption and control.
Actually MonoW is mainly aggro, taxing less than the 4 Med Mages in 5C. By playing white you get Brave the Elements for a massive evasion plan, but it's weaker than Merfolk or Elves in that regard. With Mantis Rider as a good stand-alone aggro threat, 5C covers more angles and is better than MonoW on most of these.
I don’t really see much in a Dominaria that would be an upgrade imo.
1-2 vs Hollow One : I had two Vials in opening hand game 1, and top decked third one a few turns later. I won game 2 with 3 Reflector Mage and Phantasmal Image. Lost game 3 with 2 Vials (again), vs a turn 1 Grim Lavamancer. With all the discard spells, he had ample ammo to kill all my creatures as they entered the battlefield.
2-0 vs UR Breach : Diruption package did the job very well.
2-0 vs Temur Scapeshift : Again, disruption package won me both games.
What should be our strategy vs Hollow One? I have Anafenza in the sideboard, and I think she's good for graveyard hate. Also, Notion Thief can be very interesting, giving me cards while forcing opponent to discard. What else? Auriok Champion? Heron's Grace Champion? I removed the latest from the SB just before the tournament, and I don't yet have Auriok in my collection (but if it's very good for us, I can have it quite fast). Any other ideas? Maybe I should not worry too much... after all, I flooded on Vials the two games I've lost.
Maybe I should not worry too much... after all, I flooded on Vials the two games I've lost.
^This is probably the lesson I most need to learn, over and over. A bad night at FNM doesn't mean my deck or my list has suddenly gotten worse. I've been bouncing around decks and lists within decks too often to actually know when a loss is just due to variance and not misplay or showing up with the wrong 75. This is why tournament deck lists are so valuable. Not so you can copy one, but look at ten that did well through 15 rounds and see what they have in common. If your list is close --even if it's a card or two off-- chances our we aren't losing games due to our lists but to our understanding of matchups, mulliganing, misplays, and the inherent variance of MTG and broad deck viability of Modern.
Maybe the first move is to test the MU (5 to 10 matches in a row) to see how it goes. I personally have very little experience against this deck, is it close to Dredge or what ?
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Not at all. It uses discard spell to cast Hollow One at a big discount (often 1 or 2 creatures 4/4 on turn 2 for zero mana), or to power up Flameblade Adept. They'll discard Bloodghast and Phoenix to cast them from the graveyard, and will use the rest to pay the Delve cost of Tasigur or Gurmag Angler. Quite nasty when things go right for them...
Ok. Yeah I'm testing the MU tonight, the 2 Cages are a necessity post-SB. Ref Mage seems to be the MVP preboard for me. The Adept is particularly annoying when it attacks for 4 with Menace.
I feel like we're unfavored G1, and we have very little to bring in post-SB. If I take into account Mardu, Burn and Dredge, well Auriok Champion is great in all of these MUs. It's also a card I always like VS Merfolk and Elves (those decks will rise in popularity with Dominaria), so I'll keep this card in mind from now on.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Hey guys- I'm taking Humans to an IQ this weekend. I'm running a pretty standard mainboard, with one bob and then the normal cast of characters, but maybe with big thalia in the flex three drop slot, haven't decided on that or Kessig malcontents yet.
My questions is- what sideboard cards are best in your guys' experience vs an open meta game? I own all the cards i've seen run including dire fleet and hostage taker, along with the stallwarts in cage, dismember, izzet stat, mirran crusader, kataki, auriok, teeg, necromancer, etc
What are the SB cards you wouldn't leave home without? I'm pretty open to whatever and have no attachment to any cards. Thanks!
1) 2-1 Against Amulet Titan... Nothing particularly spicy here... Lost g3 to Sum pact Hornet Queen army of blockers. I am running a main board Heretic Cathar... I laughed when the Opponent played Amulet in game one... Well that's one dead card in the matchup!
2) 2-1 Against Naya-Blue Zoo.. Weird but powerful deck with Nacatls and Goyfs, BBE, Snaps +Path+Bolt+Helix. and Glittering wish!
I won this round on the back of Dire Fleet Daredevil playing opponent's Atarka's Command out of the yard.
3) 1-2 Esper Control I only won game two by having a great t1 Noble t2 Mantis t3 Mantis t4 Xathrid+Image on Mantis. Other than that he just killed Everything. Push Path and wraths.
4) 2-1 Merfolk, not much to say... I had turn two Mantis in the air for 4 on both games I won...
Ok. Yeah I'm testing the MU tonight, the 2 Cages are a necessity post-SB. Ref Mage seems to be the MVP preboard for me. The Adept is particularly annoying when it attacks for 4 with Menace.
I feel like we're unfavored G1, and we have very little to bring in post-SB. If I take into account Mardu, Burn and Dredge, well Auriok Champion is great in all of these MUs. It's also a card I always like VS Merfolk and Elves (those decks will rise in popularity with Dominaria), so I'll keep this card in mind from now on.
Personnaly, I prefer Anafenza, the Foremost over Grafdigger’s Cage for this matchup. She won’t help preventing Bloodghast and Flamewake Phoenix from entering from the graveyard if they’ve already been discarded, but she's Human that can survive a Bolt and trade with Hollow One (add Lieutenant, and she's 5/5). Plus, she'll make Tasigur and Gurmag Angler harder to cast.
Anafenza is probably also a better option against Dredge, and her 4/4 body is usually something you want to board in against anything deck that burns.
Grafdigger’s Cage is usually considered a better SB card, because it's also useful vs Collected Company and Flashback (Snapcaster, Storm, etc.). But for these, we already have our main deck disruption package (Thalia, Freebooter and Meddling Mage), plus SB Gaddock Teeg and Dire Fleet Daredevil. Teeg prevents CoCo, Wrath, Damnation and Supreme Verdict, incidently Jace and Cryptic Command in the Snapcaster's MU, and many of Tron's win conditions and all of UW's Miracles. Daredevil is good vs Snapcaster and Storm, but good too vs Jund (any discard spell or removal will do), Zoo (Bolt, Path, Boros Charm and Atarka's Command) and Burn (best targets and Lightning Helix and Searing Blaze). Teeg is not a Human, but it's still disruption on 2/2, and that's what our deck wants, no?
Steeve Locke won GP Phoenix with 2 Grafdigger’s Cage in the SB, no Anafenza and no Teeg. So maybe he's right and I'm wrong...
2 Grafdigger's Cage: I wouldn't leave home without these. Obviously great against the dedicated graveyard decks, but I also board in 1 copy against Snapcaster control decks and BR Hollow One. Also has good utility against Storm and CoCo/Chord decks. A seemingly narrow card that has broad applications.
Removal spells: I am down to 2 Dismember/0 Gut shot. They're fine, but also dilute our gameplan and lose us tempo - we don't want too many non-threats after boarding. It's mostly a nice luxury to have against comboish creatures like Devoted Druid, Merfolk lords or Storm enablers, or stuff like Dark Confidant.
2-drops: Currently have 2x Auriok Champion and 1x Kataki, both narrow but powerful in the right matchups. Kor Firewalker is probably a little better against Burn specifically, but not by much, and is even more narrow. I did play with 2x Dire Fleet Daredevil earlier (though it's usually not a 2-drop). It's a good card against Jund for sure, but not a necessity.
3-drops: I am running 2x Staticaster (Affinity, Elves, CoCo decks, Dredge, Lingering Souls and Empty the Warrens/Young Pyromancer tokens), 2x Sin Collector (Control, spellbased combo and Jund), 2x Vithian Renegades (Affinity, against ensnaring bridge, not embarrassing against Aether Vial or other random artifacts) and 2x Xathrid Necromancer (Anti-sweeper and very good against heavy spot removal decks like Jund or Jeskai). Mirran Crusader is an option for sure, but there are a lot of bolts out there. I love Kessig Malcontents, but have 2 mainboard. Kembal is fine, but I'd rather be playing a WW 2-drop against Burn and our game against spellbased combo is already great with Meddling Mage, Sin Collector and Thalia.
Colored nonhumans/spells: I really dislike playing Selfless Spirit, but especially Gaddock Teeg seems atrocious. They're powerful cards, but very constraining on the manabase. I have no idea how people put Stony Silence or Rest in Peace in their decks, that don't even interact with vial. I just don't want the risk of uncastable sideboard bullets, or naming Kithkin on 2 and not being able to play Mantis Rider on 3.
Remember that it's OK to board out a land in grindy, long matchups to minimize flood risk. I usually shave a Seachrome coast when that's the case.
Gaddock Teeg isn't too hard to cast, because of Ziggurat and Vial. We have 8 G and 11 W with Ancient Ziggurat, Horizon Canopy, Plains and Seachrome Coast. Add Noble Hierarch for some extra colored mana, and Aether Vial, and usually you don't have to name Kithkin on Cavern or Territories.
The same is not true for non-creatures colored spells, like Stony Silence and Rest In Peace (Ziggurat and Vial don't help them). So we agree there.
I'm also with you on Dismember. I had Gut Shot at some point, mostly as a metagame call to remove something without losing Tempo (good in the mirror, vs mana dorks, Pyromancer, etc.). But disrupting creature based Combo and killing fat Goyf has become more important lately.
See my previous post for my opinion on Grafdigger’s Cage.
Vithian Renegades is my card choice vs artifacts. But I prefer Hostage Taker over Kataki as an extra way to deal with them. It's a Human, and good too in other matchups (mainly Midrange when they've exhausted their removals in the late game). Sin Collector always seemed to me overkill, considering our main deck disruption package. Against Control, I much prefer Notion Thief. Flash is super good to dodge their counterspells when they tap out EOT to draw cards or cantrips, and this incidently puts the extra cards in our hand rather than theirs (and that's better than a counterspell, and it comes with a 3/1 body).
Steeve Locke won GP Phoenix with 2 Grafdigger’s Cage in the SB, no Anafenza and no Teeg. So maybe he's right and I'm wrong... Smile
No, reality is that no SB configuration is optimal. Imho, it's impossible to figure out which SB is best because it has to do with the decks we encounter in a given tournament (not talking about FNMs here). It's a gamble everytime and you may be right to have Anafenza and Gaddock.
If you want some examples, yes Gaddock has wider applications for some tricky MUs like Tron and control, but if you don't expect or encounter them, it's better to have Cage VS Coco decks and Dredge, because they're tough MUs as well and have fewer ways to deal with artifacts than creatures.
Yes Thief is nice VS control but is worse than Sin Col vs Burn.
To me we're at a point where it makes no sense to talk about what are the better cards, we know discussed them all. It's more interesting to talk about what is expected most at a given tournament / time, and adapt the SB in consequence.
That being said, there might be a real discussion about Kataki VS Hostage Taker in a vacuum. It's a third slot dedicated for Affi, KCI and Lantern to begin with, negating a slot for some other MUs.
Since the bannings of Pod, I have never played with Kataki again, but I have some reps with Taker. I must say I dislike 4-drops, because their effect is not always winning the game. Venser, Shaper Savant is also a great card but isn't played, while it has super wide applications. The #1 reason is the cmc. Even though I stole a few Platings and Bridges for the win, Taker always felt too expensive and slow, and sometimes not enough. I don't want a 4-drop to be sometimes "not enough" to win me the game on the spot. I'd rather have a 3rd Vithian Renegades, or a 2cmc Kataki that wins the game at least as often as something else.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
What do you guys think are the worst matchups for Humans? I've been noticing a LOT of 50/50 matchups across the board and some that are much easier. My guess would be Jeskai Control and Grixis Control?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Any deck that doesn't have a single wincon and packs a buch of different removalspells are 50/50 at best. Amongst them are indeed Jeskai an Grixis, but also Jund. I love those odds though. Piloting humans requires a good feel of what the opponent is doing. In that way it's more skill intensitive and more rewarding than one might think.
I guess my worst matchup is Burn. I have yet to beat it (online) but haven't played againt it in paper.
Hey guys. How do you approach the GB Tron matchup?
Try disrupt enough to keep them of Karn. Next is All is dust (post board).
Ugin and Oblivion Stone are usually a turn to late, but if possible those are the other cards to lock out.
I Allways keep Reflector Mages in for Wurmcoil Engine. A resolved one can be very troublesome.
I don't think the matchup is perticulary hard, but like every other deck, T3 tron is chalanging. I've had the best success with the more disruptive part of the deck.
Well, If you have read trough the 66 pages of this thread, you got all the info you want from the very beginning with GWxx COCO to the latest and most competitive Vial version. Most, if not all, have been part of the Humans journey from early on.
I guess if you want to absorb more, there is always the Humans subrebdit (I don't know if linking is alowed, google is your friend)
Jeskai is hardest for me for sure. Too much removal.
Vs. Tron you want to go for disruption/tempo play. Both Thalias are very good, and Meddling Mage can be extremely relevant. Reflector Mage is amazing vs. Wurmcoil and Eldrazi critters, and Kitesail can give information while taking a key top end threat. Image can copy their creatures--try this with Ulamog for good fun. Tron is totally winnable.
I was 4-1 on Friday out of 60+ and 3-1 with 50 players tonight, losing to GW Elves and beating 8 Rack, Colorless Eldrazi Stompy, and RB Hollow One.
How did you board in the Elves match-up? I've been struggling there and the conventional, mull to t2 Mantis, doesn't seem reasonable.
Also, did your Hollow One player brick? I have been trounced by that deck in testing and at a 4 round event last night. Burning inquiry's variance always hurt me more than them. Their sideboard Grim Lavamancer+removal.dec was soul crushing.
I've been struggling there and the conventional, mull to t2 Mantis, doesn't seem reasonable.
The conventional T2 Mirran Crusader / Izzet Staticaster is great though. ^^
Any disruptive element on T2 is good actually. We have many cards to side in, at least.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
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1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
Actually MonoW is mainly aggro, taxing less than the 4 Med Mages in 5C. By playing white you get Brave the Elements for a massive evasion plan, but it's weaker than Merfolk or Elves in that regard. With Mantis Rider as a good stand-alone aggro threat, 5C covers more angles and is better than MonoW on most of these.
For Knights, you have Benalish Marshal and Dauntless Bodyguard. One could even wanna try Steel Leaf Champion (lol). There's a chance more playable Knights will be revealed. Nothing for Humans however.
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
^This is probably the lesson I most need to learn, over and over. A bad night at FNM doesn't mean my deck or my list has suddenly gotten worse. I've been bouncing around decks and lists within decks too often to actually know when a loss is just due to variance and not misplay or showing up with the wrong 75. This is why tournament deck lists are so valuable. Not so you can copy one, but look at ten that did well through 15 rounds and see what they have in common. If your list is close --even if it's a card or two off-- chances our we aren't losing games due to our lists but to our understanding of matchups, mulliganing, misplays, and the inherent variance of MTG and broad deck viability of Modern.
Maybe the first move is to test the MU (5 to 10 matches in a row) to see how it goes. I personally have very little experience against this deck, is it close to Dredge or what ?
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
I feel like we're unfavored G1, and we have very little to bring in post-SB. If I take into account Mardu, Burn and Dredge, well Auriok Champion is great in all of these MUs. It's also a card I always like VS Merfolk and Elves (those decks will rise in popularity with Dominaria), so I'll keep this card in mind from now on.
My questions is- what sideboard cards are best in your guys' experience vs an open meta game? I own all the cards i've seen run including dire fleet and hostage taker, along with the stallwarts in cage, dismember, izzet stat, mirran crusader, kataki, auriok, teeg, necromancer, etc
What are the SB cards you wouldn't leave home without? I'm pretty open to whatever and have no attachment to any cards. Thanks!
1) 2-1 Against Amulet Titan... Nothing particularly spicy here... Lost g3 to Sum pact Hornet Queen army of blockers. I am running a main board Heretic Cathar... I laughed when the Opponent played Amulet in game one... Well that's one dead card in the matchup!
2) 2-1 Against Naya-Blue Zoo.. Weird but powerful deck with Nacatls and Goyfs, BBE, Snaps +Path+Bolt+Helix. and Glittering wish!
I won this round on the back of Dire Fleet Daredevil playing opponent's Atarka's Command out of the yard.
3) 1-2 Esper Control I only won game two by having a great t1 Noble t2 Mantis t3 Mantis t4 Xathrid+Image on Mantis. Other than that he just killed Everything. Push Path and wraths.
4) 2-1 Merfolk, not much to say... I had turn two Mantis in the air for 4 on both games I won...
Anafenza is probably also a better option against Dredge, and her 4/4 body is usually something you want to board in against anything deck that burns.
Grafdigger’s Cage is usually considered a better SB card, because it's also useful vs Collected Company and Flashback (Snapcaster, Storm, etc.). But for these, we already have our main deck disruption package (Thalia, Freebooter and Meddling Mage), plus SB Gaddock Teeg and Dire Fleet Daredevil. Teeg prevents CoCo, Wrath, Damnation and Supreme Verdict, incidently Jace and Cryptic Command in the Snapcaster's MU, and many of Tron's win conditions and all of UW's Miracles. Daredevil is good vs Snapcaster and Storm, but good too vs Jund (any discard spell or removal will do), Zoo (Bolt, Path, Boros Charm and Atarka's Command) and Burn (best targets and Lightning Helix and Searing Blaze). Teeg is not a Human, but it's still disruption on 2/2, and that's what our deck wants, no?
Steeve Locke won GP Phoenix with 2 Grafdigger’s Cage in the SB, no Anafenza and no Teeg. So maybe he's right and I'm wrong...
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
The same is not true for non-creatures colored spells, like Stony Silence and Rest In Peace (Ziggurat and Vial don't help them). So we agree there.
I'm also with you on Dismember. I had Gut Shot at some point, mostly as a metagame call to remove something without losing Tempo (good in the mirror, vs mana dorks, Pyromancer, etc.). But disrupting creature based Combo and killing fat Goyf has become more important lately.
See my previous post for my opinion on Grafdigger’s Cage.
Vithian Renegades is my card choice vs artifacts. But I prefer Hostage Taker over Kataki as an extra way to deal with them. It's a Human, and good too in other matchups (mainly Midrange when they've exhausted their removals in the late game). Sin Collector always seemed to me overkill, considering our main deck disruption package. Against Control, I much prefer Notion Thief. Flash is super good to dodge their counterspells when they tap out EOT to draw cards or cantrips, and this incidently puts the extra cards in our hand rather than theirs (and that's better than a counterspell, and it comes with a 3/1 body).
1st, GP Toronto Sunday Super Series 2016 : Ally Company RWBG
Top 8, PPTQ Shadows over Innistrad : Boros Humans WR.
Use a hypergeometric calculator for your deckbuilding maths,
and use TopDecked to manage your decks and collection on your Apple or Android device.
No, reality is that no SB configuration is optimal. Imho, it's impossible to figure out which SB is best because it has to do with the decks we encounter in a given tournament (not talking about FNMs here). It's a gamble everytime and you may be right to have Anafenza and Gaddock.
If you want some examples, yes Gaddock has wider applications for some tricky MUs like Tron and control, but if you don't expect or encounter them, it's better to have Cage VS Coco decks and Dredge, because they're tough MUs as well and have fewer ways to deal with artifacts than creatures.
Yes Thief is nice VS control but is worse than Sin Col vs Burn.
To me we're at a point where it makes no sense to talk about what are the better cards, we know discussed them all. It's more interesting to talk about what is expected most at a given tournament / time, and adapt the SB in consequence.
That being said, there might be a real discussion about Kataki VS Hostage Taker in a vacuum. It's a third slot dedicated for Affi, KCI and Lantern to begin with, negating a slot for some other MUs.
Since the bannings of Pod, I have never played with Kataki again, but I have some reps with Taker. I must say I dislike 4-drops, because their effect is not always winning the game. Venser, Shaper Savant is also a great card but isn't played, while it has super wide applications. The #1 reason is the cmc. Even though I stole a few Platings and Bridges for the win, Taker always felt too expensive and slow, and sometimes not enough. I don't want a 4-drop to be sometimes "not enough" to win me the game on the spot. I'd rather have a 3rd Vithian Renegades, or a 2cmc Kataki that wins the game at least as often as something else.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I guess my worst matchup is Burn. I have yet to beat it (online) but haven't played againt it in paper.
Try disrupt enough to keep them of Karn. Next is All is dust (post board).
Ugin and Oblivion Stone are usually a turn to late, but if possible those are the other cards to lock out.
I Allways keep Reflector Mages in for Wurmcoil Engine. A resolved one can be very troublesome.
I don't think the matchup is perticulary hard, but like every other deck, T3 tron is chalanging. I've had the best success with the more disruptive part of the deck.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I guess if you want to absorb more, there is always the Humans subrebdit (I don't know if linking is alowed, google is your friend)
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Vs. Tron you want to go for disruption/tempo play. Both Thalias are very good, and Meddling Mage can be extremely relevant. Reflector Mage is amazing vs. Wurmcoil and Eldrazi critters, and Kitesail can give information while taking a key top end threat. Image can copy their creatures--try this with Ulamog for good fun. Tron is totally winnable.
I was 4-1 on Friday out of 60+ and 3-1 with 50 players tonight, losing to GW Elves and beating 8 Rack, Colorless Eldrazi Stompy, and RB Hollow One.
Also, did your Hollow One player brick? I have been trounced by that deck in testing and at a 4 round event last night. Burning inquiry's variance always hurt me more than them. Their sideboard Grim Lavamancer+removal.dec was soul crushing.
The conventional T2 Mirran Crusader / Izzet Staticaster is great though. ^^
Any disruptive element on T2 is good actually. We have many cards to side in, at least.