The deck has room for adaptation according to the metagame we face. There won't be a stock list for more than a couple of months, it's going to change every new set, every new ban / unban announcement, and so on. For Humans to become solved as a deck, we need a stagnant format, which is not the case right now. And it's good news for many decks in the format, because when a format becomes stale, some decks happen to be unplayable, and others dominate.
what do you guys think of taking out vithian renegades completely in sb, to make room for better wider sb tech? its main use is against affinity, but i feel like we go a little taller and wider than them so we can overwhelm them. the other possible sb use for the renegades is etron variants, but i feel like 3 cmc is too slow against them. it does take out o stone...but im thinking we ccan just outrace them?
I wouldn't cut Renegades personnally, unless Affinity becomes unpopular, which never happens. This deck has always been Tier 1, and never suffered any banning. It's the last Grand archetype of Modern that's completely untouched. Ensnaring Bridge decks is another reason to have such tech in the SB. Artifact decks are overall close MUs for which we need some SB dedication. The Whir Lantern deck is somewhat getting more popular as pros / twitchers stream it.
That being said, every set can offer a card that's gonna help those MUs, without even being artifact hate. Patience is key. Now if your expected meta doesn't have Affi or Bridge, Renegades are indeed useless. What kind of card do you want to slot in your SB ?
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
If people are trialling new one drops, could sage of epityr be a consideration. Obviously doesn’t enable the draw like thraben inspector does, but stacking your deck could be really relevant in some matches. Anyone got any thoughts...?
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Cheeri0s is the breakfast of championsWRU Everyone loves an angry mobRWG Why so Bloo?RU
Kytheon looks like the next break out 1 drop from the Pro Tour as a 1 or 2 if. There were some decks that used Experiment One as a 4 of.
Both of the top 8 decks are aether vial based as well.
So I'm going to go with this and see how it does for me. I think I'm going to push Kessig Malcontents to the side as a one of in favor of having a little bit more explosive action with Kytheon, Hero of Akros. Playing a Vial turn 1 I can still flip him on turn 3 if I cast a mantis rider. It makes the deck a little more low to the ground and he is great late game as the planeswalker 4/4 Human. I have a feeling I might end up going down to 1 and 1 in the MB with him and Kessig but I want to try him as a two of for FNM this upcoming week and see how he does.
Dire Fleet Daredevil did not work out for me at all this week. I sided it in against Burn and a couple other matches, however even when I saw it in my hand I had other priorities that needed to be addressed so I'm going to stick in in my binder for now.
As a random aside, it's such a delight casting meddling mage naming their suspended rift bolt.
Gut Shot was a meta call for the pro tour. It's a great answer for Young Pyromancer and taking care of a Liliana that forced a creature sacrifice.
I have the Kytheon coming in the mail for this Friday FNM. From the pro tour those that played it on turn one usually had it flipped near the end of the game and it was instrumental for the finish.
Pro tip: flipped Kytheon gives you two activations a turn for Izzet Staticaster. Kill Pyromancer AND his tokens. 😁
So more than ever as Lantern takes a prominent place in the meta our Horizon Canopy is our best weapon in our deck. It can't be removed from the hand and one or two on board can help us draw our answer to the setup of a lock.
Hey all, I've been creepin for a while and thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents. Played this deck for a few months now and loving it. I've been playing it regularly at LGS's and out of the last 10 nights, I've only once NOT went either 4-0, 3-1, or 2-1. Here's the decklist I'm probably settling on for the upcoming Toronto GP.
-1 Ancient Ziggurat and +1 City of Brass because not being able to cast Aether Vial with Ziggurat happened a lot. Tested a lot and Im pretty sure this is correct.
I strongly feel that exactly 3x Aether Vial is correct. Saves you from topdecking one at a critical moment.
Phantasmal Image might be my fav card in the deck, and is even more insane when all of your SB cards are creatures.
My sideboard has some..*ahem*..personality... I'm noticeably NOT running Grafdigger's Cage as I don't expect many Counters Company decks, which is really all its for. Gaddock Teeg is awesome, I almost want to run 2. Fiendslayer Paladin might be a little ambitious - I wanted something I can bring in vs. both Burn and Jund/Junk/Mardu/Grixis decks, so this is my compromise between either another Auriok Champion or Mirran Crusader. Lastly, I'm considering making room for 1 more Izzet Staticaster since Im expecting a lot of Affinity, Young Pyromancer, and Lingering Souls.
Quote from Phil
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Not sure I agree with only 3x Vial, you really want it as a T1 play. This deck in general seems to want to clean up opponents fast, and if the game goes long I think maybe Bob is potentially better than cutting the ramp. I'm no expert though.
Now that my disclaimer has been issued, I'm going to return to an idea I floated a month or so ago, which is running a Deft Duelist in the side. This is kind of a local-meta call--I see a lot of Jeskai Geist, and they have more Bolts, Helixes, Paths, and Snaps than you can shake a stick at. That matchup seems decidedly unfavorable to me, and Duelist would wall both Geist and Snap. With a Lieutenant trigger, it would also kill a blocking Spell Queller without trading.
If my LGS has any, I think I'll try it for a little while. Might run two, to increase the odds that I see it while I'm testing.
I noticed a couple of decks running gut shot.... am I missing something with this card?
I played humans at the PT with 2 Gut Shots on the sideboard. I had it for Noble Hierarch decks (including the mirror) and Affinity. Those matchups tend to be very play/draw dependent and having a Gut Shot on a key early play is a huge tempo swing that gives you a good chance to win games on the draw - this happened twice at the tournament. Note that it gets better if you are also running Izzet Staticaster, since they can "combo" to kill a x/2 creature.
I wouldn't bring Gut Shot against Liliana or Young Pyromancer decks.
I noticed a couple of decks running gut shot.... am I missing something with this card?
I played humans at the PT with 2 Gut Shots on the sideboard. I had it for Noble Hierarch decks (including the mirror) and Affinity. Those matchups tend to be very play/draw dependent and having a Gut Shot on a key early play is a huge tempo swing that gives you a good chance to win games on the draw - this happened twice at the tournament. Note that it gets better if you are also running Izzet Staticaster, since they can "combo" to kill a x/2 creature.
I wouldn't bring Gut Shot against Liliana or Young Pyromancer decks.
Hey Bertu, fellow brazilian here. Congrats on the PT!
Kinda sad you didn't make top8. That last match was hard.
Just wanted to ask you: Game 2 of that match you had 2 Malcontents in hand with him at 13. If I remember correctly, you already had 4 humans on the field, which would make playing the malcontents 11 damage total. You had a bunch of lands so you only needed to draw 1 more creature to go for lethal, but then you scooped after some turns. Since you didn't need a specific creature and your deck is stacked with them, wouldn't be better to keep playing and see if you got there? Match is already bad and you were 1-0, no harm in trying to get a sequence of humans in your top.
@deaddrift, wouldn't Invisible Stalker be better than Deft Duelist in that sense? It's also a way to get damage in without fear of chumpblockers
I didn't watch the replays, but if I remember right I conceded when he was in a position to use Codex Shreder to return a whir of invention and tutor Witchbane Orb, which I had no way to remove with my 75. A draw would favor him, so I just tried to save time.
I didn't watch the replays, but if I remember right I conceded when he was in a position to use Codex Shreder to return a whir of invention and tutor Witchbane Orb, which I had no way to remove with my 75. A draw would favor him, so I just tried to save time.
Oh, yeah. He probably keeps the Orb after sb for Malcontents. Missed the possibility.
Haven't played a ton against lantern control, but BOY does it look scary...anyone know how to play and sideboard against it? Apparently Noble Hierarch can still attack with ensnaring bridge out, but otherwise I don't know the right plays against his deck. I even considered Devout Chaplain as a sideboard card.
Lantern is though, but winnable. They also need good draws to completely lock you. Imho the best card to add from the sideboard is my long loved Harsh Mentor alongside Noble Hierarch, Dark Confidant and our disruption.
Drop the Thalia's Lieutenants.
Offcourse, you must be able to cast them, which can be a matter of luck.
I'm trying to figure out my sideboard for GP toronto. I'm a little worried about lantern and affinity but not sure how much i should devote to it. i am on the vial version and i'm concerned i won't reliably be able to cast Stony Silence. i am looking at other options and Harsh mentor seems like a solid choice over Kataki or trying to fit in stony.
Please convince me to use or not use harsh mentor!
so my concerns are:
I haven't seen anyone play harsh mentor in the board recently.
It's a permission effect, if affinity kill me or lantern can mill something important and survive they will and the mentor did next to nothing.
lantern can still sit behind a bridge and use their mill rocks sparingly until they get an abrupt decay
affinity has lifelinkers to negate the damage from mentor if they get a cranial in play.
but the benefits are:
Also hates out counters company, knightfall, elves (g/w version and not even that well). Only elves is really a bad matchup for this deck that i'm aware of.
it does seriously harm ravager and man-land heavy draws from affinity
if lantern does not find an answer to it it can end the game through bridge
I'm trying to figure out my sideboard for GP toronto. I'm a little worried about lantern and affinity but not sure how much i should devote to it. i am on the vial version and i'm concerned i won't reliably be able to cast Stony Silence. i am looking at other options and Harsh mentor seems like a solid choice over Kataki or trying to fit in stony.
Please convince me to use or not use harsh mentor!
so my concerns are:
I haven't seen anyone play harsh mentor in the board recently.
It's a permission effect, if affinity kill me or lantern can mill something important and survive they will and the mentor did next to nothing.
lantern can still sit behind a bridge and use their mill rocks sparingly until they get an abrupt decay
affinity has lifelinkers to negate the damage from mentor if they get a cranial in play.
but the benefits are:
Also hates out counters company, knightfall, elves (g/w version and not even that well). Only elves is really a bad matchup for this deck that i'm aware of.
it does seriously harm ravager and man-land heavy draws from affinity
if lantern does not find an answer to it it can end the game through bridge
it's a creature and most importantly a human
Personally I think you're overthinking the Lantern MU. I doubt there'll be many ppl on Lantern, and some percentage of those are gonna be ppl who just picked up the deck in the past week because it won the Pro Tour, so it must be good. But its a super difficult deck to play, so the joke's on them.
Affinity, however, is a real MU and one I expect to play against at least once. Harsh Mentor is only OK against Affinity though. Your best weapons are Izzet Staticaster and Dismember. Ofc Kataki, War's Wage and Vithian Renegades as well, if you have them in your SB. Incidentally, these are also good vs Lantern, if you can draw and cast them.
Quote from Phil
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Hi Humans players. Control player here graciously asking for help beating your deck.
Im currently running both verdict and settle main as well as a full set of paths, but Meddling mage is really meddling with me.
What are the cards you are afraid of most from control players?
My first meddle tends to get set on path or bolt. A follow-up mage will name the big sweepers like anger and verdict. I'd care about staring down some sort of Gideon or elspeth backed up by removal. Conversely I don't care in the slightest about counterspells. Snapcaster mage has been an occasional meddling mage target when it presents a clear 'out' to my opponent and they've got a sweeper in the yard.
I tend to try to save threats in my hand instead of over extend into sweepers. Other players I've seen going more all-in. Depends on the player.
I'll tend to favour hands with freeloader and will pick out the cheapest forms of interaction leaving expensive stuff (made more expensive by thalia of course).
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
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I wouldn't cut Renegades personnally, unless Affinity becomes unpopular, which never happens. This deck has always been Tier 1, and never suffered any banning. It's the last Grand archetype of Modern that's completely untouched.
Ensnaring Bridge decks is another reason to have such tech in the SB. Artifact decks are overall close MUs for which we need some SB dedication. The Whir Lantern deck is somewhat getting more popular as pros / twitchers stream it.
That being said, every set can offer a card that's gonna help those MUs, without even being artifact hate. Patience is key. Now if your expected meta doesn't have Affi or Bridge, Renegades are indeed useless. What kind of card do you want to slot in your SB ?
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
Both of the top 8 decks are aether vial based as well.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Basilisk Collar? $5.00
Shooting down a baneslayer angel? Priceless
Not that I've seen sadly.
So I'm going to go with this and see how it does for me. I think I'm going to push Kessig Malcontents to the side as a one of in favor of having a little bit more explosive action with Kytheon, Hero of Akros. Playing a Vial turn 1 I can still flip him on turn 3 if I cast a mantis rider. It makes the deck a little more low to the ground and he is great late game as the planeswalker 4/4 Human. I have a feeling I might end up going down to 1 and 1 in the MB with him and Kessig but I want to try him as a two of for FNM this upcoming week and see how he does.
Dire Fleet Daredevil did not work out for me at all this week. I sided it in against Burn and a couple other matches, however even when I saw it in my hand I had other priorities that needed to be addressed so I'm going to stick in in my binder for now.
As a random aside, it's such a delight casting meddling mage naming their suspended rift bolt.
4 Aether Vial
// 37 Creature
2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Meddling Mage
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Mantis Rider
3 Reflector Mage
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Ziggurat
1 Plains
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Sin Collector
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Auriok Champion
2 Vithian Renegades
2 Izzet Staticaster
1 Xathrid Necromancer
1 Kessig Malcontents
1 War Priest of Thune
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Everyone loves an angry mob RWG
Why so Bloo? RU
I have the Kytheon coming in the mail for this Friday FNM. From the pro tour those that played it on turn one usually had it flipped near the end of the game and it was instrumental for the finish.
Pro tip: flipped Kytheon gives you two activations a turn for Izzet Staticaster. Kill Pyromancer AND his tokens. 😁
So more than ever as Lantern takes a prominent place in the meta our Horizon Canopy is our best weapon in our deck. It can't be removed from the hand and one or two on board can help us draw our answer to the setup of a lock.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Notes:
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Ancient Ziggurat
1 City of Brass
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Razorverge Thicket
Spells
3 Aether Vial
4 Champion of the Parish
2 Kessig Malcontents
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Mantis Rider
4 Meddling Mage
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Reflector Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Auriok Champion
2 Dismember
1 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Izzet Staticaster
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Renegade Rallier
2 Sin Collector
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Vithian Renegades
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Now that my disclaimer has been issued, I'm going to return to an idea I floated a month or so ago, which is running a Deft Duelist in the side. This is kind of a local-meta call--I see a lot of Jeskai Geist, and they have more Bolts, Helixes, Paths, and Snaps than you can shake a stick at. That matchup seems decidedly unfavorable to me, and Duelist would wall both Geist and Snap. With a Lieutenant trigger, it would also kill a blocking Spell Queller without trading.
If my LGS has any, I think I'll try it for a little while. Might run two, to increase the odds that I see it while I'm testing.
I played humans at the PT with 2 Gut Shots on the sideboard. I had it for Noble Hierarch decks (including the mirror) and Affinity. Those matchups tend to be very play/draw dependent and having a Gut Shot on a key early play is a huge tempo swing that gives you a good chance to win games on the draw - this happened twice at the tournament. Note that it gets better if you are also running Izzet Staticaster, since they can "combo" to kill a x/2 creature.
I wouldn't bring Gut Shot against Liliana or Young Pyromancer decks.
Hey Bertu, fellow brazilian here. Congrats on the PT!
Kinda sad you didn't make top8. That last match was hard.
Just wanted to ask you: Game 2 of that match you had 2 Malcontents in hand with him at 13. If I remember correctly, you already had 4 humans on the field, which would make playing the malcontents 11 damage total. You had a bunch of lands so you only needed to draw 1 more creature to go for lethal, but then you scooped after some turns. Since you didn't need a specific creature and your deck is stacked with them, wouldn't be better to keep playing and see if you got there? Match is already bad and you were 1-0, no harm in trying to get a sequence of humans in your top.
@deaddrift, wouldn't Invisible Stalker be better than Deft Duelist in that sense? It's also a way to get damage in without fear of chumpblockers
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Oh, yeah. He probably keeps the Orb after sb for Malcontents. Missed the possibility.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
—Radha, Keldon warlord
Drop the Thalia's Lieutenants.
Offcourse, you must be able to cast them, which can be a matter of luck.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Please convince me to use or not use harsh mentor!
so my concerns are:
but the benefits are:
Anyways, heres my SB guide I've been working on it, its a rough draft, and yes, I'm probably going to put 2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar in the maindeck again because I want them in so many MU's. I used Matt Ling's original SB guide as a basis, although the deck and meta has evolved since then. You cant edit but you can comment:
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LQGwEOCeqngQZybXObwyt6wBhMulLvzIPEVegnGwcxI/edit#gid=0&sa=D&ust=1518172180770000&usg=AFQjCNHxQWZe8j78FmTFuDrxuYLIPRM_aQ
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Im currently running both verdict and settle main as well as a full set of paths, but Meddling mage is really meddling with me.
What are the cards you are afraid of most from control players?
My first meddle tends to get set on path or bolt. A follow-up mage will name the big sweepers like anger and verdict. I'd care about staring down some sort of Gideon or elspeth backed up by removal. Conversely I don't care in the slightest about counterspells. Snapcaster mage has been an occasional meddling mage target when it presents a clear 'out' to my opponent and they've got a sweeper in the yard.
I tend to try to save threats in my hand instead of over extend into sweepers. Other players I've seen going more all-in. Depends on the player.
I'll tend to favour hands with freeloader and will pick out the cheapest forms of interaction leaving expensive stuff (made more expensive by thalia of course).