Whats the general opinion on Lifecrafter's Bestiary? Does it get good value in this deck, or is it generally a dead draw/win-more type card? Does it sometimes win games?
As someone who initially jammed four copies of the card when it came out, I found it to be severely underwhelming. Taking a turn off to cast it instead of developing your board really hurts, and once in play, I found it did less to win me the game than a Chord of Calling or Collected Company would.
I have been following this thread for a year now and I would like to thank all of you to help me understand this beautiful deck and all of it´s varieties and choices. I have been playing a streight GB Version as it fits my playstyle perfectly. Anyways, I would like to get some help on my Sideboard as I sometimes struggle with boarding.
Here is my Decklist for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dark-elves-of-the-pack/
My meta consists of Abzan, Knightfall Company, Lantern Control, Multible Eldrazi decks, Tron, Scapeshift, Esper Control and some other brews that are mainly creature based. Overall the meta seems slow and light on boardwipes. I think the only bad matchups are Scapeshift which I don´t see very often and RG Tron. I am open for suggestions.
1. Any idea how to change the sideboard?
2. Lead the stampede is a great card bout playing 3 leads and 3 visionaries seems a lot. I can imagine going up to 19 lands or another mana dork in the main but it migth be just fine without Horizon Canopies.
3. How to board and use Thoughtseize and Phyrexian Revoker?
1. Any idea how to change the sideboard?
2. Lead the stampede is a great card bout playing 3 leads and 3 visionaries seems a lot. I can imagine going up to 19 lands or another mana dork in the main but it migth be just fine without Horizon Canopies.
3. How to board and use Thoughtseize and Phyrexian Revoker?
Hiya!
1) Thats entirely up to you. Typically people run the spell theyre not playing main (ie. Lead or Chord) in the sideboard.
2) If your meta is slow, why cut the best card for those matchups from your deck? If anything, I'd go up to 4 Visionary.
3) I'm actually writing this up right now in the guide in my signature, but I also wrote a post about it earlier in the old thread which I'll link to when I find it.
I have been following this thread for a year now and I would like to thank all of you to help me understand this beautiful deck and all of it´s varieties and choices. I have been playing a streight GB Version as it fits my playstyle perfectly. Anyways, I would like to get some help on my Sideboard as I sometimes struggle with boarding.
Here is my Decklist for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dark-elves-of-the-pack/
My meta consists of Abzan, Knightfall Company, Lantern Control, Multible Eldrazi decks, Tron, Scapeshift, Esper Control and some other brews that are mainly creature based. Overall the meta seems slow and light on boardwipes. I think the only bad matchups are Scapeshift which I don´t see very often and RG Tron. I am open for suggestions.
1. Any idea how to change the sideboard?
2. Lead the stampede is a great card bout playing 3 leads and 3 visionaries seems a lot. I can imagine going up to 19 lands or another mana dork in the main but it migth be just fine without Horizon Canopies.
3. How to board and use Thoughtseize and Phyrexian Revoker?
1. Sideboarding with this deck is entirely your preference, but my main word of advice would be to play a second copy of Chord of Calling so you can board up to three copies when you need speed/utility.
2. Lead the Stampede and Elvish Visionary are both great in the meta you have described. They also make the deck mulligan better in the blind, which is important. I don't think the 19th land is necessary in most lists, but yours is because you're playing two non-green mana sources. So either go up to a 19th green-source or either replace Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Westvale Abbey with a green source. I would also recommend Horizon Canopy and Cavern of Souls, but I understand if they are out of budget.
3. Syreal94 has already covered a lot about Thoughtseize and I no longer play that version, so I would look at the post he mentions above. As far as Phyrexian Revoker is concerned, I really only ever board it in against Tron and Abzan Company. Then there are some random decks it has utility against, but I would just pay attention in game to see any weird cards. It's interesting against Lantern, but probably not very good anyways.
You mentioned that Scapeshift is a bad matchup, but that has not been my experience with the versions that have Shaman of the Pack. The versions I have experienced no longer maindeck so many Anger of the Gods due to the lack of Dredge now. You should be a faster goldfish, and their interaction shouldn't slow you down enough. As a tip, you can often see if they have a sweeper by turn 4 as they would have used it. Then you cast Collected Company on your mainphase so they can't take it with Remand or Cryptic Command. If this is the Primeval Titan version, they tend to be a turn faster, but have less interaction and you still have a faster goldfish. Why exactly do you view this as a bad matchup? And if the community here agrees that it is a bad matchup, please, everybody enlighten me. That has not been my experience.
Is it worth it to side Beast Within in a TRON heavy meta? I'm running G/B if that matters. I don't think I saw the card discussed in the primer
Which version of Tron? If it's R/G Tron, Elves is just a really poor choice for the meta. Obviously for budget reasons you may only have that as an option, and if that's the case I would maybe try and splash red for something like Crumble to Dust. If it is any other variant of Tron, I believe Elves is fast enough doing what it does best and not diluting that with a card like Beast Within. A copy of Phyrexian Revoker and Reclamation Sage should suffice.
If you're running the Thoughtseize version of B/G, it's probably good to bring those in for the R/G Tron matchup to take the Pyroclasm(this is my intuition. I don't play this version, so if I am wrong, please correct me on that one). It's probably fine against the other versions, but I'm not sure it would be necessary.
I have seen the new Nissa in few sideboards in recent decklists, how good is she? What deck do you side it in against?
Although I haven't played her much myself, she is an absolute house against any grindy deck as she provides a 5/5 threat that doesn't die to removal as well as threatens Ezuri, Renegade Leader if he was already dealt with. Would bring in against any control or Jund style deck. Although with the innovation of Death's Shadow Jund, this may no longer be a great idea, as that deck provides a much faster clock, making Nissa, Vital Force not as potent.
You mentioned that Scapeshift is a bad matchup, but that has not been my experience with the versions that have Shaman of the Pack. The versions I have experienced no longer maindeck so many Anger of the Gods due to the lack of Dredge now. You should be a faster goldfish, and their interaction shouldn't slow you down enough. As a tip, you can often see if they have a sweeper by turn 4 as they would have used it. Then you cast Collected Company on your mainphase so they can't take it with Remand or Cryptic Command. If this is the Primeval Titan version, they tend to be a turn faster, but have less interaction and you still have a faster goldfish. Why exactly do you view this as a bad matchup? And if the community here agrees that it is a bad matchup, please, everybody enlighten me. That has not been my experience.
Theoretically, and practically, playing GB actually gives you a slower goldfish as you load up on more 3s and less 2's. From a pragmatic point of view, that means less spells cast per turn on average which means a slower draw overall. Further, it's still an awful matchup as the RUG versions run one to two Anger main, and one to two more side depending on how many they have main, 4c BTLshift has a maindeck Supreme Verdict/Damnation that they can tutor on t4 as they technically have 5 copies of the card in the deck, and Titanshift should still be running two-three Angers as the only decks that beat it are the low to the ground aggro decks and the HARD control decks.
Titanshift in particular is borderline nightmarish as a decent hand will both facilitate a Titan on T4 (better of the two outcomes...) which can nuke our boardstate back into the stone age or a Scapeshift for 18 (and that's assuming they don't cast another ramp spell at turn 4 either to push to 8 lands.) It is awful. Absolutely awful. For the most part you need to just board in Thoughtseizes, and mull to great race hands. The problem for the most part is that our T3 kills are less consistent then their T4 kills. They can almost certainly present a T4 "lethal" every game barring incredibly bad luck.
I will definitely consider going back to 3 Chords in the 75 instead of 2 but with the inclusion of 3 Thoughtseize it's hard to find room. Card draw usually was more than enough with 3 Leads 3 Visionaries and 4 CoCo.
Syreal94s posts about thoughtseize helped and I believe this card gives GB Elves a reason to not splash white. LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR GUIDE!
In the Scapeshift matchup I hardly ever do 2 damage to myself unless I have thoughtseize but this card can destroy them. The problem was my opponent played 4cScapeshift with multible Supreme Verdicts and Angers and even bolts to slow me down. Seemed like a bad matchup.
Thursday Win a Box (MM3): 50 people <they had to stop adding people because the store ran out of space>
Skred 2-0 W
UW Control 2-0 W
4c BTLshift 2-1 W
8 Rack 2-0 W
T8 4c BTLshift (r3 opp) 0-2 L
Skipped FNM to jam Kiki-Chord instead as a mild shift
Today, a Sydney $200 (ish??) + MM3 pack per win event, 48 players sold out.
Burn 2-0 W
Abzan 2-0 W
Jund 0-2 L
8 Rack (same guy) 2-0 W
Abzan 2-0 W
ID w/ mate on Bant Eldrazi
T8 Abzan 2-0 W
T4 GB Elves mirror 1-2 L (he has my 74/75 [59/60 , 14/15] cards and we talk shop a fair bit, the deck discrepancy mostly due to me forgetting to tell him I moved the Skite back into the main)
Definitely feel like we're in a good position at the moment. Thursday I jammed with a Chameleon Colossus and found it underwhelming, so I moved to a Wilt-Leaf Liege and the card overperformed every time I drew it (4 times, 3 wins, once in the mirror). Still waiting on the Lili tick up/empty hand Thoughtseize/K Command blowout with it.
Hi Syreal,
Could you please post your current decklist? i would like to compare my current decklist with yours, especially the sideboard as i'm a little lost to what I should use in the current metagame
Hi Syreal,
Could you please post your current decklist? i would like to compare my current decklist with yours, especially the sideboard as i'm a little lost to what I should use in the current metagame
The only slots I'm really looking at is the Wilt-Leaf Liege, as it constantly floats between Dismember and Chameleon Colossus, and might experiment with a Brain Maggot in that slot in future.
How are you feeling about the spellskite in the mainboard? has it been helping against the current field?
i'm also considering putting either a burrento-forge tender or a selfless spirit on the Wilt-Leaf spot because my meta has a lot of wrath effects :/.
Hi Syreal,
Could you please post your current decklist? i would like to compare my current decklist with yours, especially the sideboard as i'm a little lost to what I should use in the current metagame
The only slots I'm really looking at is the Wilt-Leaf Liege, as it constantly floats between Dismember and Chameleon Colossus, and might experiment with a Brain Maggot in that slot in future.
Is the reason for 0 Horizon Canopy budget? I feel like the card is so good that I want at least one copy (probably 2-3 in GB and 3-4 if there're any white spells) in every version of elves regardless of G,GB,GW,GBw.
Hi Syreal,
Could you please post your current decklist? i would like to compare my current decklist with yours, especially the sideboard as i'm a little lost to what I should use in the current metagame
The only slots I'm really looking at is the Wilt-Leaf Liege, as it constantly floats between Dismember and Chameleon Colossus, and might experiment with a Brain Maggot in that slot in future.
Is the reason for 0 Horizon Canopy budget? I feel like the card is so good that I want at least one copy (probably 2-3 in GB and 3-4 if there're any white spells) in every version of elves regardless of G,GB,GW,GBw.
Entirely deliberate, I even sold my expedition Canopy. I value the Overgrown Tomb as an additional black source to cast Thoughtseize reliably (just enough under Karsten's math to cast a T3 Thoughtseize which is typically when we want to cast it). Deck's mana has been like this for a year now barring the GP where I opted for more black sources to cast Thoughtseize T1-2.
For the most part it's a concession to multiple things:
a) if running 18 lands, they all need to be an untapped green source to reduce mulligans
b) thoughtseize in the board needs 9 black sources to reliably cast post board
b.i) thoughtseize's flexibility and sheer power is enough to want to "distort" your mana base
c) no painfree option means you occasionally just lose to burn with it
It's my go to 19th land, but in an 18 land configuration this is what has worked best for me over the past 12 months.
How are you feeling about the spellskite in the mainboard? has it been helping against the current field?
i'm also considering putting either a burrento-forge tender or a selfless spirit on the Wilt-Leaf spot because my meta has a lot of wrath effects :/.
Sorta undecided on the Spellskite in the main. For the most part it was a decision to free up a sideboard slot by preboarding the Skite. Also the game one getchas are always nic3.
Selfless Spirit is very easy to signal and a good player may just wait to wrath. Also think its a crutch for the most part, and that learning to stagger your dudes is much more significant comparatively.
Random question. I have played live with Elves twice now and both times I have got a few weird comments like "there is always someone who plays elves". Is there any history to Elves that people don't like?
Random question. I have played live with Elves twice now and both times I have got a few weird comments like "there is always someone who plays elves". Is there any history to Elves that people don't like?
I wasn't sure if they were having a dig or not.
They are probably just butthurt from the last time they got destroyed by them
Similar thing happened to me last week when I went 3-0-1 at fnm (first fnm with elves). Couple of salty players about the deck's speed/linearity/"this is a bad matchup for my deck". I just ignore it, but I did find the degree of saltiness a bit odd
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As someone who initially jammed four copies of the card when it came out, I found it to be severely underwhelming. Taking a turn off to cast it instead of developing your board really hurts, and once in play, I found it did less to win me the game than a Chord of Calling or Collected Company would.
UBRGrixis DelverUBR
WGElvesWG
WBG Elves WBG
Cheeri0s
EDH:
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage RG || GWUB Atraxa, Praetors' Voice GWUB
R Zo-Zu the Punisher R || WU Brago, King Eternal WU
UB Gisa and Geralf UB || BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW
I have been following this thread for a year now and I would like to thank all of you to help me understand this beautiful deck and all of it´s varieties and choices. I have been playing a streight GB Version as it fits my playstyle perfectly. Anyways, I would like to get some help on my Sideboard as I sometimes struggle with boarding.
Here is my Decklist for reference: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dark-elves-of-the-pack/
My meta consists of Abzan, Knightfall Company, Lantern Control, Multible Eldrazi decks, Tron, Scapeshift, Esper Control and some other brews that are mainly creature based. Overall the meta seems slow and light on boardwipes. I think the only bad matchups are Scapeshift which I don´t see very often and RG Tron. I am open for suggestions.
1. Any idea how to change the sideboard?
2. Lead the stampede is a great card bout playing 3 leads and 3 visionaries seems a lot. I can imagine going up to 19 lands or another mana dork in the main but it migth be just fine without Horizon Canopies.
3. How to board and use Thoughtseize and Phyrexian Revoker?
Hiya!
1) Thats entirely up to you. Typically people run the spell theyre not playing main (ie. Lead or Chord) in the sideboard.
2) If your meta is slow, why cut the best card for those matchups from your deck? If anything, I'd go up to 4 Visionary.
3) I'm actually writing this up right now in the guide in my signature, but I also wrote a post about it earlier in the old thread which I'll link to when I find it.
1. Sideboarding with this deck is entirely your preference, but my main word of advice would be to play a second copy of Chord of Calling so you can board up to three copies when you need speed/utility.
2. Lead the Stampede and Elvish Visionary are both great in the meta you have described. They also make the deck mulligan better in the blind, which is important. I don't think the 19th land is necessary in most lists, but yours is because you're playing two non-green mana sources. So either go up to a 19th green-source or either replace Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx or Westvale Abbey with a green source. I would also recommend Horizon Canopy and Cavern of Souls, but I understand if they are out of budget.
3. Syreal94 has already covered a lot about Thoughtseize and I no longer play that version, so I would look at the post he mentions above. As far as Phyrexian Revoker is concerned, I really only ever board it in against Tron and Abzan Company. Then there are some random decks it has utility against, but I would just pay attention in game to see any weird cards. It's interesting against Lantern, but probably not very good anyways.
You mentioned that Scapeshift is a bad matchup, but that has not been my experience with the versions that have Shaman of the Pack. The versions I have experienced no longer maindeck so many Anger of the Gods due to the lack of Dredge now. You should be a faster goldfish, and their interaction shouldn't slow you down enough. As a tip, you can often see if they have a sweeper by turn 4 as they would have used it. Then you cast Collected Company on your mainphase so they can't take it with Remand or Cryptic Command. If this is the Primeval Titan version, they tend to be a turn faster, but have less interaction and you still have a faster goldfish. Why exactly do you view this as a bad matchup? And if the community here agrees that it is a bad matchup, please, everybody enlighten me. That has not been my experience.
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Which version of Tron? If it's R/G Tron, Elves is just a really poor choice for the meta. Obviously for budget reasons you may only have that as an option, and if that's the case I would maybe try and splash red for something like Crumble to Dust. If it is any other variant of Tron, I believe Elves is fast enough doing what it does best and not diluting that with a card like Beast Within. A copy of Phyrexian Revoker and Reclamation Sage should suffice.
If you're running the Thoughtseize version of B/G, it's probably good to bring those in for the R/G Tron matchup to take the Pyroclasm(this is my intuition. I don't play this version, so if I am wrong, please correct me on that one). It's probably fine against the other versions, but I'm not sure it would be necessary.
Let me know if you have any more questions
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Although I haven't played her much myself, she is an absolute house against any grindy deck as she provides a 5/5 threat that doesn't die to removal as well as threatens Ezuri, Renegade Leader if he was already dealt with. Would bring in against any control or Jund style deck. Although with the innovation of Death's Shadow Jund, this may no longer be a great idea, as that deck provides a much faster clock, making Nissa, Vital Force not as potent.
Social Media: Twitter, Twitch
MTG Articles: 200+ Articles on StarCityGames.com, MTG Draft AI Article
MTG AI Code: Limited Draft Bot, CubeCobra Recommender System
Theoretically, and practically, playing GB actually gives you a slower goldfish as you load up on more 3s and less 2's. From a pragmatic point of view, that means less spells cast per turn on average which means a slower draw overall. Further, it's still an awful matchup as the RUG versions run one to two Anger main, and one to two more side depending on how many they have main, 4c BTLshift has a maindeck Supreme Verdict/Damnation that they can tutor on t4 as they technically have 5 copies of the card in the deck, and Titanshift should still be running two-three Angers as the only decks that beat it are the low to the ground aggro decks and the HARD control decks.
Titanshift in particular is borderline nightmarish as a decent hand will both facilitate a Titan on T4 (better of the two outcomes...) which can nuke our boardstate back into the stone age or a Scapeshift for 18 (and that's assuming they don't cast another ramp spell at turn 4 either to push to 8 lands.) It is awful. Absolutely awful. For the most part you need to just board in Thoughtseizes, and mull to great race hands. The problem for the most part is that our T3 kills are less consistent then their T4 kills. They can almost certainly present a T4 "lethal" every game barring incredibly bad luck.
Syreal94s posts about thoughtseize helped and I believe this card gives GB Elves a reason to not splash white. LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR GUIDE!
In the Scapeshift matchup I hardly ever do 2 damage to myself unless I have thoughtseize but this card can destroy them. The problem was my opponent played 4cScapeshift with multible Supreme Verdicts and Angers and even bolts to slow me down. Seemed like a bad matchup.
Thursday Win a Box (MM3): 50 people <they had to stop adding people because the store ran out of space>
Skred 2-0 W
UW Control 2-0 W
4c BTLshift 2-1 W
8 Rack 2-0 W
T8 4c BTLshift (r3 opp) 0-2 L
Skipped FNM to jam Kiki-Chord instead as a mild shift
Today, a Sydney $200 (ish??) + MM3 pack per win event, 48 players sold out.
Burn 2-0 W
Abzan 2-0 W
Jund 0-2 L
8 Rack (same guy) 2-0 W
Abzan 2-0 W
ID w/ mate on Bant Eldrazi
T8 Abzan 2-0 W
T4 GB Elves mirror 1-2 L (he has my 74/75 [59/60 , 14/15] cards and we talk shop a fair bit, the deck discrepancy mostly due to me forgetting to tell him I moved the Skite back into the main)
Definitely feel like we're in a good position at the moment. Thursday I jammed with a Chameleon Colossus and found it underwhelming, so I moved to a Wilt-Leaf Liege and the card overperformed every time I drew it (4 times, 3 wins, once in the mirror). Still waiting on the Lili tick up/empty hand Thoughtseize/K Command blowout with it.
Could you please post your current decklist? i would like to compare my current decklist with yours, especially the sideboard as i'm a little lost to what I should use in the current metagame
4 Forest
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Pendelhaven
//creatures: 35
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Spellskite
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Shaman of the Pack
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Eternal Witness
4 Collected Company
3 Chord of Calling
3 Thoughtseize
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Lead the Stampede
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Nissa, Vital Force
The only slots I'm really looking at is the Wilt-Leaf Liege, as it constantly floats between Dismember and Chameleon Colossus, and might experiment with a Brain Maggot in that slot in future.
How are you feeling about the spellskite in the mainboard? has it been helping against the current field?
i'm also considering putting either a burrento-forge tender or a selfless spirit on the Wilt-Leaf spot because my meta has a lot of wrath effects :/.
Is the reason for 0 Horizon Canopy budget? I feel like the card is so good that I want at least one copy (probably 2-3 in GB and 3-4 if there're any white spells) in every version of elves regardless of G,GB,GW,GBw.
Social Media: Twitter, Twitch
MTG Articles: 200+ Articles on StarCityGames.com, MTG Draft AI Article
MTG AI Code: Limited Draft Bot, CubeCobra Recommender System
Entirely deliberate, I even sold my expedition Canopy. I value the Overgrown Tomb as an additional black source to cast Thoughtseize reliably (just enough under Karsten's math to cast a T3 Thoughtseize which is typically when we want to cast it). Deck's mana has been like this for a year now barring the GP where I opted for more black sources to cast Thoughtseize T1-2.
For the most part it's a concession to multiple things:
a) if running 18 lands, they all need to be an untapped green source to reduce mulligans
b) thoughtseize in the board needs 9 black sources to reliably cast post board
b.i) thoughtseize's flexibility and sheer power is enough to want to "distort" your mana base
c) no painfree option means you occasionally just lose to burn with it
It's my go to 19th land, but in an 18 land configuration this is what has worked best for me over the past 12 months.
Sorta undecided on the Spellskite in the main. For the most part it was a decision to free up a sideboard slot by preboarding the Skite. Also the game one getchas are always nic3.
Selfless Spirit is very easy to signal and a good player may just wait to wrath. Also think its a crutch for the most part, and that learning to stagger your dudes is much more significant comparatively.
Random question. I have played live with Elves twice now and both times I have got a few weird comments like "there is always someone who plays elves". Is there any history to Elves that people don't like?
I wasn't sure if they were having a dig or not.
They are probably just butthurt from the last time they got destroyed by them