Would you really rather cast the Cradle card compared to Lead the Stampede. Cradle doesn't help Elves weakness to spot removal. It doesn't improve your velocity. We already typically only plays a max of 8 noncreature spells to not miss on Collected Company. It also doesn't flip until end step, meaning you have to wait at least 1 turn to do anything. The typical elf games play out too fast for this card to be relevant.
In short, its win more. More mana when you should already be winning.
i've preordered 2 copies and am going to test 2 as a starting point.
there's a lot of nice synergy with the version that plays pact instead of chord. you can 'storm' off and dump the enchantment towards the end of your chain, and in end step the land flips, allowing you to pay for any pact triggers with a single land. Also allows for craterhoof plays rather well, and helps you regain board presence after removal by snowballing after a coco or an elvish visionary.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
The problem I have with the card is that if you're casting it after you storm off, you've probably emptied out a lot of your hand as well as already had a critical mass of mana anyway. Then you have to hope to untap with your boardstate intact. I think the card is definitely worth a shot, I'm just skeptical. I feel like it's not giving us much more than a Shrine to Nykthos.
The problem I have with the card is that if you're casting it after you storm off, you've probably emptied out a lot of your hand as well as already had a critical mass of mana anyway. Then you have to hope to untap with your boardstate intact. I think the card is definitely worth a shot, I'm just skeptical. I feel like it's not giving us much more than a Shrine to Nykthos.
It's similar, of course.
So it finds you a creature, untaps your nettle sentinels and then ramps you. Ramp is always good because we don't always have the win after we elf-storm. We also need to be able to pump ezuri or (if applicable) drop craterhoof.
It helps very powerfully to rebuild after removal, acting like a force multiplier for each creature you drop.
Notably makes cantrip elves very nice.
I think it's another piece of the puzzle for the more legacy-style pact-based list, and I'm down with it. Preordered a couple and will test it out.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I keep looking at it and wondering if it actually fits more of a swarm style deck like a GB Lead the Stampede style of deck. It's possible to do some sort of mix of Lead the Stampede with the new cradle.
I think it actually has a lot of problems fitting into GW combo builds given the lack of room but a swarm build might be able to pull it off.
I think it's going to take some testing but it's something I see as a potential card for elves.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
How can it not be in this deck? Its a mini stampede anyway with archdruid mama. I thinks the right answer here is 2. I mean this is archdruid 5 and 6 with a tad of stampede. Test it and keep it.
How can it not be in this deck? Its a mini stampede anyway with archdruid mama. I thinks the right answer here is 2. I mean this is archdruid 5 and 6 with a tad of stampede. Test it and keep it.
I agree.
One line of play I can see being strong is having 4 Elves on the field, cast this and grab Ezuri. It flips on your EOT. On your next turn play a land, play ezuri and overrun with new cradle.
TL;DR This card has the potential to both grab Ezuri and give you the mana you need to overrun the following turn.
As a 2 i can see this working, but it is not good at game two when facing mass removal. I am thinking of adding joraga warcaller, it can work as an one mana elf and mana sink when we have the land online. Having only ezuri is not reliable.
I have had the same thoughts about Joraga and playtested him extensively. He feels really bad as the "one drop" that you're proposing. In theory you'd use him like that, but it always feels bad. I just found him lackluster when I played him. You mentioned that Ezuri is not enough, I tend to agree. You're either going to want to run the Druid/Vizier combo in GW, or Shaman/Ezuri in GB to give you alternate plans for either build. Westvale Abbey is great in both builds. I'm on the 4 Shaman/3 Ezuri/1 Westvale Abbey for wincon's plan, and it feels pretty darn good.
I'd been running Nykthos over Westvale Abbey, since I've switched to Westvale that card has consistently overperformed and won me games, even some I wouldn't or shouldn't have won otherwise.
After running the curio/evolutionary leap version for a while, last weekend i decided to give a try to the coco "aggro" version. it went pretty bad. I did not enjoyed playing the deck and it always felt too linear, too easy to be disrupted and too weak to sweepers.
so I'm back on the combo train.
talking with another elves player at the pptq, he told me he had quite a bit of success running 2 throne of the god-pharaoh
At the moment I run 3 curios and 4 evolutionary leap, I'm thinking of trying out how it goes with 4 curios and 2 thrones.
I'm also VERY interested in the new cradle. I'd probably take out 1 visionary and 1 land for it.
Thoughts?
also, question for anyone running the curio combo, no point in playing coco there, right?
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Yeah, that's what I thought. Any opinion on throne?
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Huey, Dewey and Louie are always dressed in RUG. it is CLEARLY going to be the wedges block Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Veteran Elves players, based on your experience what are the common mistakes one usually does when playing this deck? It could be for the GB, GW or Abzan build. I'm pretty sure Elf newbies like me can gain a lot from what you can contribute. Could be a general play or something we might do in a certain match up. Thanks in advance to anyone who will share their thoughts
Veteran Elves players, based on your experience what are the common mistakes one usually does when playing this deck? It could be for the GB, GW or Abzan build. I'm pretty sure Elf newbies like me can gain a lot from what you can contribute. Could be a general play or something we might do in a certain match up. Thanks in advance to anyone who will share their thoughts
Sequencing, mulligans, and sideboarding are the three big ones I see new Elf players struggle with.
Veteran Elves players, based on your experience what are the common mistakes one usually does when playing this deck? It could be for the GB, GW or Abzan build. I'm pretty sure Elf newbies like me can gain a lot from what you can contribute. Could be a general play or something we might do in a certain match up. Thanks in advance to anyone who will share their thoughts
By no means a veteran but I still feel like adding a little to this. I started playing GB Elves in November 2015 and have been playing it in paper still to this day. I've also assembled the GW Devoted Druid/Vizier combo deck online just the other day. I would say 100% my biggest problem with the deck is sequencing. I don't play the deck with as much frequency as I'm sure many people here do, nor as much as I would like to play it. But I still notice issues somewhat often where I'll pass the turn and realize that my sequencing was off and I could have done more that turn. This has been especially true with the GW combo version I've been playing online. I know as I practice I'll get much better, as I haven't even been playing the deck for a week yet. For example, my third ever match with the GW deck was against Boros Burn. I was at 7, they were tapped out, and I untapped with a bunch of stuff in hand. I had a Devoted Druid on the field, cast nearly everything in my hand, including a Vizier of Remedies, and passed. I realized that had I tapped my lands and Elves differently I also could have cast the Ezuri, Renegade Leader sitting in my hand and won the game that turn. I of course lost on their turn after passing (as I should have, lol). I noticed it as soon as I passed my turn. Sequencing errors can be very easy to miss, but often will show themselves soon after once you have a minute to think back on your play or turn once you're not in the heat of the moment trying to figure out what to do. I hope this makes sense and can help a little!
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After running the curio/evolutionary leap version for a while, last weekend i decided to give a try to the coco "aggro" version. it went pretty bad. I did not enjoyed playing the deck and it always felt too linear, too easy to be disrupted and too weak to sweepers.
so I'm back on the combo train.
talking with another elves player at the pptq, he told me he had quite a bit of success running 2 throne of the god-pharaoh
At the moment I run 3 curios and 4 evolutionary leap, I'm thinking of trying out how it goes with 4 curios and 2 thrones.
I'm also VERY interested in the new cradle. I'd probably take out 1 visionary and 1 land for it.
Thoughts?
also, question for anyone running the curio combo, no point in playing coco there, right?
I'm also in Curio train, Playing coco next to curio still worth it. Yes your chances of hitting in coco will be less with the addition of curio but having access to it is worth it than not.
And having curio on board and casting coco is still big and can end the game on that spot. And coco is also Big in an aggro plan if curio is nowhere to be found.
tl;dr:New to elves but like them very much. Please help me with choosing/prioritizing upgrades on a budget.
Greetings to all the elvish pilots in here :D.
I just left the kitchen table a few month ago and started playing a decent meta deck in standard at FNMs and showdowns. I always wanted to build a (semi/budget)competitive elves deck but since even my extremely tuned down version was destroying everything at the kitchen table level there wasn't really any fun to it. I bought a few elves here and there and probably have a decent (budget) shell already but it just wasn't fun at a casual level. People didn't want to play it, I had no fun destroying everything and taking the good cards out just felt wrong. Since I am having a blast playing standard I was thinking about building some modern elves deck and attend modern events at my lgs. I'm not expecting to be competitive from the start but it would be nice to at least have a deck that can pull something of every now and then.
I read the primer and the last 20 pages and tried to learn from it. So far I build a Mono G Budget version inspired by the Elvish Champion/Nylea's Presence combo from SaffronOlive (Modern Beatdown Elves).
I don't know much about my local meta besides that there are no elf players so far. This is my deck list so far:
It would be awesome to get some input about the deck list from experienced elves pilots.
A few additional questions I have:
Does Elvish Champion + Nylea's Presence make sense or should I cut it? Since there probably aren't any mirror matchups I thought the downside of elvish champion probably won't matter and the combo might catch people off guard when they might concentrating on the other lords.
What do you guys think about going GB or GW in combination with a budget mana base? I'm talking about something like 4x Llanowar Wastes + 4x Unclaimed Territory + 2x Gilt-Leaf Palace.
Is Eldritch Evolution a budget option to consider? Or does the sorcery speed and the missing Caverns just make it too inefficient? I thought it might be helpful to function as a toolbox or combo enabler when Chord of Calling is out of reach for the moment. But I guess people might just counter it and laugh about you sacking a creature and wasting mana in your main phase.
What would be the most cost efficient way to improve the deck when you're taking small steps?
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Modern UR Blue Moon UBR Grixis Shadow GWU Amulet Titan BRW Mardu Pyromancer
After running the curio/evolutionary leap version for a while, last weekend i decided to give a try to the coco "aggro" version. it went pretty bad. I did not enjoyed playing the deck and it always felt too linear, too easy to be disrupted and too weak to sweepers.
so I'm back on the combo train.
talking with another elves player at the pptq, he told me he had quite a bit of success running 2 throne of the god-pharaoh
At the moment I run 3 curios and 4 evolutionary leap, I'm thinking of trying out how it goes with 4 curios and 2 thrones.
I'm also VERY interested in the new cradle. I'd probably take out 1 visionary and 1 land for it.
Thoughts?
also, question for anyone running the curio combo, no point in playing coco there, right?
I enjoy throne a lot. Tried cloudstone but felt inconstantct and unnecessary with shaman and throne your burn spikes to a decent amount
This is my current. It's fun and have been doing well against random decks
I think we only really want one. Chord is a better spell in the GW lists and you probably don't want 10 spells in the deck. In GB you play less Ezuri anyway.
I think the Elvish Champion combo makes sense, but I think it's too cute. Over running with Ezuri seems better than trying to get a very specific two card combo. I'd rather have 4 Ezuri and 4 Lead the Stampede and a couple more visionary over the combo. Why? It's easier to find the creatures you need via CoCo or Lead than it is to draw into the enchantment.
As far as budget Mana base, in the new Ixalan set they are making a light version of Cavern (can't think of the name) that you could run. Along with the Fast lands Blooming Marsh or Razorverge Thicket which are budgetish. And then obviously the pain lands are another budget option.
Quite honestly which ever deck you choose to build they cost pretty much the same... It's just the Mana base that's expensive...
Also I guess I should add, ended up 10th at a 127 man PPTQ that happened at Australian Nationals. VIPOwl ended up 9th after being bamboozled into ID'ing which I'm sure he might still be a bit annoyed about.
I was playing my very signature generic GB list with the 60th card being a MD Relic of Progenitus. VIPOwl on GW Vizier.
R1: Win vs GW Tron
R2: Win vs U Tron (I remembered the next 2 rounds, finally)
R3: Win vs Grixis DS
R4: Loss vs UW Control (definitely gonna bring in 1 Rec Sage from now on, D Sphere definitely looking juicy)
R5: Win vs Mirror (Abzan Elves)
R6: Loss vs Affinity
R7: Win vs Affinity
I am definitely gonna be playing 1 of the new Cradle. But any more than one seems like a downside simply because:
a) Its 3 mana to draw a card. That's likely not good enough considering we pay 3 mana to draw 2-3 cards in Lead the Stampede.
b) It flips on end step which means we can't abuse the mana instantly.
c) The intervening 'if' clause. In response to the trigger they can kill a dude and no flip if I recall correctly.
In short, its win more. More mana when you should already be winning.
there's a lot of nice synergy with the version that plays pact instead of chord. you can 'storm' off and dump the enchantment towards the end of your chain, and in end step the land flips, allowing you to pay for any pact triggers with a single land. Also allows for craterhoof plays rather well, and helps you regain board presence after removal by snowballing after a coco or an elvish visionary.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
It's similar, of course.
So it finds you a creature, untaps your nettle sentinels and then ramps you. Ramp is always good because we don't always have the win after we elf-storm. We also need to be able to pump ezuri or (if applicable) drop craterhoof.
It helps very powerfully to rebuild after removal, acting like a force multiplier for each creature you drop.
Notably makes cantrip elves very nice.
I think it's another piece of the puzzle for the more legacy-style pact-based list, and I'm down with it. Preordered a couple and will test it out.
I think it actually has a lot of problems fitting into GW combo builds given the lack of room but a swarm build might be able to pull it off.
I think it's going to take some testing but it's something I see as a potential card for elves.
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I agree.
One line of play I can see being strong is having 4 Elves on the field, cast this and grab Ezuri. It flips on your EOT. On your next turn play a land, play ezuri and overrun with new cradle.
TL;DR This card has the potential to both grab Ezuri and give you the mana you need to overrun the following turn.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
I have had the same thoughts about Joraga and playtested him extensively. He feels really bad as the "one drop" that you're proposing. In theory you'd use him like that, but it always feels bad. I just found him lackluster when I played him. You mentioned that Ezuri is not enough, I tend to agree. You're either going to want to run the Druid/Vizier combo in GW, or Shaman/Ezuri in GB to give you alternate plans for either build. Westvale Abbey is great in both builds. I'm on the 4 Shaman/3 Ezuri/1 Westvale Abbey for wincon's plan, and it feels pretty darn good.
I'd been running Nykthos over Westvale Abbey, since I've switched to Westvale that card has consistently overperformed and won me games, even some I wouldn't or shouldn't have won otherwise.
so I'm back on the combo train.
talking with another elves player at the pptq, he told me he had quite a bit of success running 2 throne of the god-pharaoh
At the moment I run 3 curios and 4 evolutionary leap, I'm thinking of trying out how it goes with 4 curios and 2 thrones.
I'm also VERY interested in the new cradle. I'd probably take out 1 visionary and 1 land for it.
Thoughts?
also, question for anyone running the curio combo, no point in playing coco there, right?
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Pioneer: WURFaerie fires BRGDragons
ModernBGElves WRBurn UR Fires Turns URGift Storm UG Twiddle Storm
Sequencing, mulligans, and sideboarding are the three big ones I see new Elf players struggle with.
GBRJund Elves
GWDevoted Elves
WDeath & Taxes
GWUBRHumans
EDH:
GTitania, Protector of Argoth
By no means a veteran but I still feel like adding a little to this. I started playing GB Elves in November 2015 and have been playing it in paper still to this day. I've also assembled the GW Devoted Druid/Vizier combo deck online just the other day. I would say 100% my biggest problem with the deck is sequencing. I don't play the deck with as much frequency as I'm sure many people here do, nor as much as I would like to play it. But I still notice issues somewhat often where I'll pass the turn and realize that my sequencing was off and I could have done more that turn. This has been especially true with the GW combo version I've been playing online. I know as I practice I'll get much better, as I haven't even been playing the deck for a week yet. For example, my third ever match with the GW deck was against Boros Burn. I was at 7, they were tapped out, and I untapped with a bunch of stuff in hand. I had a Devoted Druid on the field, cast nearly everything in my hand, including a Vizier of Remedies, and passed. I realized that had I tapped my lands and Elves differently I also could have cast the Ezuri, Renegade Leader sitting in my hand and won the game that turn. I of course lost on their turn after passing (as I should have, lol). I noticed it as soon as I passed my turn. Sequencing errors can be very easy to miss, but often will show themselves soon after once you have a minute to think back on your play or turn once you're not in the heat of the moment trying to figure out what to do. I hope this makes sense and can help a little!
STANDARD:
RRRMono RedRRR
MODERN:
BGBeatdown ElvesBG
GWDevoted Druid ComboGW
EDH:
URGMaelstrom WandererURG
BBBSheoldred, Whispering OneBBB
BGNath of the Gilt-LeafBG
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I'm also in Curio train, Playing coco next to curio still worth it. Yes your chances of hitting in coco will be less with the addition of curio but having access to it is worth it than not.
And having curio on board and casting coco is still big and can end the game on that spot. And coco is also Big in an aggro plan if curio is nowhere to be found.
Greetings to all the elvish pilots in here :D.
I just left the kitchen table a few month ago and started playing a decent meta deck in standard at FNMs and showdowns. I always wanted to build a (semi/budget)competitive elves deck but since even my extremely tuned down version was destroying everything at the kitchen table level there wasn't really any fun to it. I bought a few elves here and there and probably have a decent (budget) shell already but it just wasn't fun at a casual level. People didn't want to play it, I had no fun destroying everything and taking the good cards out just felt wrong. Since I am having a blast playing standard I was thinking about building some modern elves deck and attend modern events at my lgs. I'm not expecting to be competitive from the start but it would be nice to at least have a deck that can pull something of every now and then.
I read the primer and the last 20 pages and tried to learn from it. So far I build a Mono G Budget version inspired by the Elvish Champion/Nylea's Presence combo from SaffronOlive (Modern Beatdown Elves).
I don't know much about my local meta besides that there are no elf players so far. This is my deck list so far:
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
1 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Champion
1 Eternal Witness
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2 Lead the Stampede
4 Collected Company
3 Nylea's Presence
1 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
16 Forest
2 Westvale Abbey
SB:
1 Chameleon Colossus
2 Choke
2 Dismember
1 Eternal Witness
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Wrap in Vigor
It would be awesome to get some input about the deck list from experienced elves pilots.
A few additional questions I have:
UR Blue Moon
UBR Grixis Shadow
GWU Amulet Titan
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
I enjoy throne a lot. Tried cloudstone but felt inconstantct and unnecessary with shaman and throne your burn spikes to a decent amount
This is my current. It's fun and have been doing well against random decks
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Shaman of the Pack
2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
2 Chord of Calling
2 Lead the Stampede
4 Collected Company
Lands:18
3 Blooming Marsh
4 Cavern of Souls
5 Forest
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Westvale Abbey
2 Essence Warden
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Elvish Champion
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Chameleon Colossus
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Creeping Corrosion
3 Stain the Mind
As far as budget Mana base, in the new Ixalan set they are making a light version of Cavern (can't think of the name) that you could run. Along with the Fast lands Blooming Marsh or Razorverge Thicket which are budgetish. And then obviously the pain lands are another budget option.
Quite honestly which ever deck you choose to build they cost pretty much the same... It's just the Mana base that's expensive...
I was playing my very signature generic GB list with the 60th card being a MD Relic of Progenitus. VIPOwl on GW Vizier.
R1: Win vs GW Tron
R2: Win vs U Tron (I remembered the next 2 rounds, finally)
R3: Win vs Grixis DS
R4: Loss vs UW Control (definitely gonna bring in 1 Rec Sage from now on, D Sphere definitely looking juicy)
R5: Win vs Mirror (Abzan Elves)
R6: Loss vs Affinity
R7: Win vs Affinity
I am definitely gonna be playing 1 of the new Cradle. But any more than one seems like a downside simply because:
a) Its 3 mana to draw a card. That's likely not good enough considering we pay 3 mana to draw 2-3 cards in Lead the Stampede.
b) It flips on end step which means we can't abuse the mana instantly.
c) The intervening 'if' clause. In response to the trigger they can kill a dude and no flip if I recall correctly.