...So on T3 you would have about a 75-85% chance to hit with the standard mono white 14-18 hits (14 assumes you have a couple hits in hand when you cast it)...
Sure, an oldschool "Classic" Monowhite build might run something like 4xWisp 4xResto and 2xBigFlex (e.g. 3/X bodies like Brimaz, Serra, BigSisThalia) and would have about 10-in-28 bodies unfindable by Bugler... but you're not really going to slot Bugler into a list like that by trimming Thalias, Arbiters, etc.
If you trim about half the top-end to make room for Bugler, so that only 5-in-28 bodies whiff, then your T3 odds jump from 75-85% up to something more like 85-92% and it gets really hard to completely whiff with Bugler.
However, the most important thing about Bugler isn't that he simply replaces himself like a Matter Reshaper or something; the important thing is that he digs like a beast for what you want. If you're on a solid opener like T1 Vial T2 Thalia and your opponent kills Thalia because they really want to combo off later, then T3 Bugler is going to dig into a replacement Thalia for you to vial-in about 23% of the time. Yeah, it's not a sure thing, but it's definitely better than waiting on a topdeck. If you break it down into different outcomes it's 23% get the replacement Thalia we'd want, another 18% to get a retry with a second Bugler, then another 45% chance to card-replace with anything else, and only 14% chance to completely whiff. That distribution skews pretty nicely in our favor.
The other great thing about the card is how often it lets you see every part of your deck. Just landing one or two Buglers makes it really hard to "draw the wrong half of your deck" since you get to churn through so many more cards than usual, which really ups the consistency of the deck. In playtesting I've had 2x includes feel like 3x-4x includes I've been seeing them so often, which is just great for usually-decent-but-situationally-great maindeck cards (and phenomenal for sideboard tech). This actually opens up new deck-design considerations, as 2x includes of creatures like Vryn Wingmare or Aven Mindcensor (which can really put the screws to an opponent when we're ahead on a certain axis, but are quite lackluster when we're behind) can be more viable with Bugler there to filter to/through them.
However, the most important thing about Bugler isn't that he simply replaces himself like a Matter Reshaper or something; the important thing is that he digs like a beast for what you want. If you're on a solid opener like T1 Vial T2 Thalia and your opponent kills Thalia because they really want to combo off later, then T3 Bugler is going to dig into a replacement Thalia for you to vial-in about 23% of the time.
This is definitely the part that makes me think it won't be good enough but as you said it also makes playing smaller numbers of cards (1-2 copies) far more worth while. That might be what make Bugler good. Right now I don't play less then 3 copies of anything as it is way to inconsistent. I picked up my play set last night but wont be able to test it myself for a while. So am eager to here how testing goes for everyone else.
i really like what bugler brings to the table as far as a body that replaces itself and can find you hate pieces or value. been trying a few lists.
mono white with thraben inspectors and 2 copters has done better than rw with kikis and village bell ringer, but i'll admit the rw kiki taxes combo was wonky.
will try uw soon and maybe wb with gonti at some point.
overall i think bugler is good against midrange and control and combo if they're slow that game, but certainly not recruiter of the guard for modern and certainly not super powerful.
I've tried it ages ago (pre-AER), and retried it recently with Militia Bugler.
Initially, with nothing but once-per-turn topdeck draws it was very iffy getting the card in the games you needed it. So some games you drew Vial and Eidolon in that order and were golden, other games you got Eidolon without Vial and were screwed, and some games you're just wishing you'd draw the damn Eidolon. It was extremely high variance, but the goods never felt as great or as frequent as they needed to be.
With Bugler I found I was much more able to dig into Eidolons when I needed them, or filter past them when I couldn't play around them myself. This really reduced the variance and made them much more survivable. I'm not sure how truly viable it makes them, but it definitely feels much better than before. (It was also nice playing them with 2xCopter as Eidolons do about as much combat as the average Tidehollow Sculler.)
I don't have any sort of polished list, but will mention Scab-Clan Berserker works great as copies 5-X of Eidolon, and recommend heavily skewing the manabase toward red if you're considering this much double-red.
I've been researching about Death and Taxes for a while and noticed there is a lot of sub-archetypes within D&T.
My first idea was to build the mono-white version, without the eldrazi and stuff, but the variety eludes me.
What are the best sub-archetypes and which one should I try to build?
Thanks in advance!
A very basic run down would be...
Mono white - more blinking, more land destruction, usually more flyers and most consistent mana base. It can also be played as mono white E&T either with just eldrazi displacer or full on TKS and reality smasher. There is also the new mono white death and staxes builds with chalice of the void (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1189552#paper). Although the staxes builds are their own thread.
BW - more disruption (tidehollow sculler), more removal, more card advantage (bob) and worse mana. Also BW E&T with TKS, strangler and smahser.
GW - more creatures + greens hate creatuers (hierarch, voice of resurgence, gaddock and knight of the reliquary) and collected company and worse mana (but second best I think due to hierarch)
UW - add in spirits to make a tempo deck or trophy mage to abuse crucible of worlds and use swords more consistently but all with worse mana
And of course we are all testing militia bugler in a wide verity of these as well. (I just tested it in a standard mono white list, not even changing around for fiend hunters or anything and was really impressed)
Mono white is the easiest to get started with and learn the lines of play. It is also the most consistent mana. Since we don't play any fetch lands sometimes in the splashes you just get screwed by your colors. then you can either go to the one that suits you or your meta best. BW E&T usually posts the best results lately since there is so much Humans and combo around.
I think I will start with the Mono-W list like you said.
EDIT: BTW, who are the best streamers/youtubers to watch in order to learn more about the deck?
Our own fellow posters deathandcatmix and spiderspace are the only ones I know that stream a lot of DnT (linked below). You can also find some good articles (and older videos) as well if you do some searches on tcgplayer, star city games and channel fireball.
Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
Wow 60-80 players is quite good IMHO. Btw can u share what your localgame meta when u play RW DnT. I Tried in cockatrice and i got so much fun especially against Dragon deck that is on rising because of the new Sarkhan PW card (Sarkhan FireBlood). I got really pressed because of early storm breath dragon buat Restoration Angel and Kiki Jiki save the day haha
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Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
I've been playing BW Eldrazi and Taxes at the FNM level for a while now, and I noticed that Bridgevine is the hot new thing after the pro tour. RIP seems to be way too slow to really hate out the deck, and I am way too poor to afford a set of Leyline of the Void after the spike. My question is, would cards like Relic of Progenitus and Ravenous trap be effective (if not as powerful) substitutes for Leyline until it gets reprinted or goes down?
I've been playing BW Eldrazi and Taxes at the FNM level for a while now, and I noticed that Bridgevine is the hot new thing after the pro tour. RIP seems to be way too slow to really hate out the deck, and I am way too poor to afford a set of Leyline of the Void after the spike. My question is, would cards like Relic of Progenitus and Ravenous trap be effective (if not as powerful) substitutes for Leyline until it gets reprinted or goes down?
If RiP is not fast enough, Relic won't do the trick. Ravenous Trap or Faerie Macabre could be better, I think? Problem with those is they just stop the problem once, but they're probably dredging more on the following turns, and your hate is gone.
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Modern RBWMardu Pyromancer R.I.P. BG The Rock
Commander W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Endless sands. In France people love to play controls deck, like grixis or Jeskai. And thoses matchup are a bit rought. And a card like endless sand is close to impossible to deal with, so you just hold your mana, and wait for their removal. they often end up in set up where they have to crytic bounce the land in order to not die. It'll give you a lot of windows to get some advantage.
It could be a Field of ruind instead if ppl goes into big mana even more.
Dusk//dawn. The card is a bit too clunky, and shadows decks aren't played that much anymore. I could see myself playing a one off seetle the wreackage, but not sure it's good against good players cause you can play around pretty easily if you're far ahead.
Gelid Shackle. It's good against shadows, any company deck, any deck playing mana creature (ponza, kikichord etc...) It's also an extra removal for m/u like Jund/abzan. It's worth to trade your plains for Snow covered ones.
Smuggler's copter. When the card came out i've played up to 3 copies in the main deck. The biggest problem is the Nombo with Thalia. It's also a bad blink target for angel and flicker. And it's really bad if you're opponent gets some stony silence, like UW does sometimes in the M/U. Also, if you board in your stonys you need to get those out with the Thraben inspector (cause clue =Artifact).
With all of thoses things consider i'm not a big fan of it, but the card is fine in the deck. More like a personal choice
And thanks guys for the support!
Hi Merry long time no see
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Modern
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Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
I guess its auto lose then if we play DnT against Bridgevine
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Modern
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierach not active Jund Tarmoless not active
DnT White
Living End Jund Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpost not active U/W Titan Control not active Mardu Nahiri/Control not active
You can stop it with a combination of Mistcaller and Ravenous Trap. Keep in mind that they also have some serious consistency issues with the draws, so even though the bridgevine deck build is strong, it's still possible just to win from them having the worst initial hand in centuries. Also, I like Mistcaller because it forces them to have to either kill it or play around it, which often is enough to slow them down and put them within RIP range. You can sort of do something similar with Ravenous Trap, but it isn't quite as effective.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been tinkering with a more stompy version of BW Eldrazi & Taxes dropping Tidehollow Sculler and Flickerwisp for Eldrazi Mimic, the 23rd land, and 3 Reality Smashers. I've found things much easier to cast, often my clock is much faster, but the tradeoff is less disruption. Did anyone try a similar take on the archetype?
Here's what I'm testing. A flaw I'm trying to address is having sideboard answers to permanents that flickerwisp would normally be able to handle like Ensnaring Bridge or Gideon Planeswalkers. Maybe Anguished Unmaking may fit the bill?
Sure, an oldschool "Classic" Monowhite build might run something like 4xWisp 4xResto and 2xBigFlex (e.g. 3/X bodies like Brimaz, Serra, BigSisThalia) and would have about 10-in-28 bodies unfindable by Bugler... but you're not really going to slot Bugler into a list like that by trimming Thalias, Arbiters, etc.
If you trim about half the top-end to make room for Bugler, so that only 5-in-28 bodies whiff, then your T3 odds jump from 75-85% up to something more like 85-92% and it gets really hard to completely whiff with Bugler.
However, the most important thing about Bugler isn't that he simply replaces himself like a Matter Reshaper or something; the important thing is that he digs like a beast for what you want. If you're on a solid opener like T1 Vial T2 Thalia and your opponent kills Thalia because they really want to combo off later, then T3 Bugler is going to dig into a replacement Thalia for you to vial-in about 23% of the time. Yeah, it's not a sure thing, but it's definitely better than waiting on a topdeck. If you break it down into different outcomes it's 23% get the replacement Thalia we'd want, another 18% to get a retry with a second Bugler, then another 45% chance to card-replace with anything else, and only 14% chance to completely whiff. That distribution skews pretty nicely in our favor.
The other great thing about the card is how often it lets you see every part of your deck. Just landing one or two Buglers makes it really hard to "draw the wrong half of your deck" since you get to churn through so many more cards than usual, which really ups the consistency of the deck. In playtesting I've had 2x includes feel like 3x-4x includes I've been seeing them so often, which is just great for usually-decent-but-situationally-great maindeck cards (and phenomenal for sideboard tech). This actually opens up new deck-design considerations, as 2x includes of creatures like Vryn Wingmare or Aven Mindcensor (which can really put the screws to an opponent when we're ahead on a certain axis, but are quite lackluster when we're behind) can be more viable with Bugler there to filter to/through them.
This is definitely the part that makes me think it won't be good enough but as you said it also makes playing smaller numbers of cards (1-2 copies) far more worth while. That might be what make Bugler good. Right now I don't play less then 3 copies of anything as it is way to inconsistent. I picked up my play set last night but wont be able to test it myself for a while. So am eager to here how testing goes for everyone else.
i really like what bugler brings to the table as far as a body that replaces itself and can find you hate pieces or value. been trying a few lists.
mono white with thraben inspectors and 2 copters has done better than rw with kikis and village bell ringer, but i'll admit the rw kiki taxes combo was wonky.
will try uw soon and maybe wb with gonti at some point.
overall i think bugler is good against midrange and control and combo if they're slow that game, but certainly not recruiter of the guard for modern and certainly not super powerful.
<3
Yup! https://discord.gg/up4B83
The invite is invalid; probably expired or something. :/
Initially, with nothing but once-per-turn topdeck draws it was very iffy getting the card in the games you needed it. So some games you drew Vial and Eidolon in that order and were golden, other games you got Eidolon without Vial and were screwed, and some games you're just wishing you'd draw the damn Eidolon. It was extremely high variance, but the goods never felt as great or as frequent as they needed to be.
With Bugler I found I was much more able to dig into Eidolons when I needed them, or filter past them when I couldn't play around them myself. This really reduced the variance and made them much more survivable. I'm not sure how truly viable it makes them, but it definitely feels much better than before. (It was also nice playing them with 2xCopter as Eidolons do about as much combat as the average Tidehollow Sculler.)
I don't have any sort of polished list, but will mention Scab-Clan Berserker works great as copies 5-X of Eidolon, and recommend heavily skewing the manabase toward red if you're considering this much double-red.
I've been researching about Death and Taxes for a while and noticed there is a lot of sub-archetypes within D&T.
My first idea was to build the mono-white version, without the eldrazi and stuff, but the variety eludes me.
What are the best sub-archetypes and which one should I try to build?
Thanks in advance!
A very basic run down would be...
Mono white - more blinking, more land destruction, usually more flyers and most consistent mana base. It can also be played as mono white E&T either with just eldrazi displacer or full on TKS and reality smasher. There is also the new mono white death and staxes builds with chalice of the void (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1189552#paper). Although the staxes builds are their own thread.
BW - more disruption (tidehollow sculler), more removal, more card advantage (bob) and worse mana. Also BW E&T with TKS, strangler and smahser.
GW - more creatures + greens hate creatuers (hierarch, voice of resurgence, gaddock and knight of the reliquary) and collected company and worse mana (but second best I think due to hierarch)
UW - add in spirits to make a tempo deck or trophy mage to abuse crucible of worlds and use swords more consistently but all with worse mana
RW - more betters, lightning bolt and reds hate creatures (harsh mentor, dire fleet daredevil, pia and kiran and most of all magus of the moon). and also worse mana.
And of course we are all testing militia bugler in a wide verity of these as well. (I just tested it in a standard mono white list, not even changing around for fiend hunters or anything and was really impressed)
Mono white is the easiest to get started with and learn the lines of play. It is also the most consistent mana. Since we don't play any fetch lands sometimes in the splashes you just get screwed by your colors. then you can either go to the one that suits you or your meta best. BW E&T usually posts the best results lately since there is so much Humans and combo around.
I think I will start with the Mono-W list like you said.
EDIT: BTW, who are the best streamers/youtubers to watch in order to learn more about the deck?
Our own fellow posters deathandcatmix and spiderspace are the only ones I know that stream a lot of DnT (linked below). You can also find some good articles (and older videos) as well if you do some searches on tcgplayer, star city games and channel fireball.
https://www.twitch.tv/deathandcatmix
https://www.twitch.tv/sspiderspace
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Field of Ruin
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Inspiring Vantage
1 Mountain
3 Needle Spires
4 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Tectonic Edge
26 CREATURES
4 Blade Splicer
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
4 Flickerwisp
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Leonin Arbiter
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thraben Inspector
6 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Path to Exile
6 ARTIFACTS
4 Aether Vial
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
1 Settle the Wreckage
3 Stony Silence
1 Wear // Tear
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeWow 60-80 players is quite good IMHO. Btw can u share what your localgame meta when u play RW DnT. I Tried in cockatrice and i got so much fun especially against Dragon deck that is on rising because of the new Sarkhan PW card (Sarkhan FireBlood). I got really pressed because of early storm breath dragon buat Restoration Angel and Kiki Jiki save the day haha
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot activeI've been playing BW Eldrazi and Taxes at the FNM level for a while now, and I noticed that Bridgevine is the hot new thing after the pro tour. RIP seems to be way too slow to really hate out the deck, and I am way too poor to afford a set of Leyline of the Void after the spike. My question is, would cards like Relic of Progenitus and Ravenous trap be effective (if not as powerful) substitutes for Leyline until it gets reprinted or goes down?
If RiP is not fast enough, Relic won't do the trick. Ravenous Trap or Faerie Macabre could be better, I think? Problem with those is they just stop the problem once, but they're probably dredging more on the following turns, and your hate is gone.
RBW
Mardu PyromancerR.I.P.BG The Rock
Commander
W Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Hi Merry long time no see
------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot active------
Boros/Naya/Mardu Burn
Abzan Rhino non Noble Hierachnot activeJund Tarmolessnot activeDnT White
Living End Jund
Restore Balance Non Borderpost/ Borderpostnot activeU/W Titan Controlnot activeMardu Nahiri/Controlnot active1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've been tinkering with a more stompy version of BW Eldrazi & Taxes dropping Tidehollow Sculler and Flickerwisp for Eldrazi Mimic, the 23rd land, and 3 Reality Smashers. I've found things much easier to cast, often my clock is much faster, but the tradeoff is less disruption. Did anyone try a similar take on the archetype?
Here's what I'm testing. A flaw I'm trying to address is having sideboard answers to permanents that flickerwisp would normally be able to handle like Ensnaring Bridge or Gideon Planeswalkers. Maybe Anguished Unmaking may fit the bill?
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vents
2 Plains
1 Swamp
Noncreature (8)
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Eldrazi Mimic
2 Selfless Spirit
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Strangler
2 Blade Splicer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smashers
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Auriok Champion
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Fatal Push
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Stony Silence
3 Rest in Peace
Any advice is very welcome!
BUR Grixis Death's Shadow/Control BUR & WBC Eldrazi & Taxes WBC
EDH:
UG Edric, Spymaster of Goodstuff UG