Hey guys, long time lurker here, been playing mono-white death and taxes for about a year and a half, sadly do not have many opportunities to play, and I have got two questions about card choices.
1) I have been thinking about running a playset of Flagstones of Trokair but I am little bit afraid of the nonbo with Leonin Arbiter. Have you got any experience with it, does it come up often that this punishes you?
2) Most mono-white death and taxes decks play playsets of Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge and maybe one or two Field of Ruin. Have you ever thought about switching the numbers of Tectonic Edge and Field of Ruin while also playing a playset of Aven Mindcensors (and of course Leonin Arbiters) to attack our opponents' manabases with greater pressure and even when they have less than four lands keeping them of casting even their cheaper spells, which are in majority in modern, while also getting basic lands out of our deck into play? Having more hate cards for searching library would also make it harder for our opponents to fetch while also hitting cards like Traverse the Ulvenwald, Gifts Ungiven, Expedition Map, Chord of Calling etc.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts and opinions
@Tornados 4 Flagstones + 4 leonin Arbiter is a trap, imo. I can see you running 2 at most, but 1 preferable.
I'll be honest with you about tec/field... you'll be running 4 GQ which is a lot against any deck and hoses even more with Leonin. when you play a playset of Aven Mindcensor is overkill, imo. I can see you playing 2 in your 75 to maximize your win rate against chord, valakut and other search-something.dec decks.
“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Been playing this for the last month trying to learn Modern(legacy player only) and its been fine. Tried the BW version and lost tons of games to the manabases inconsistenty and cards like Blood Moon.
General Non-detailed notes....
Cards that have overperformed:
Selfless Spirit - Started with 0 and 2 seems just right.
Displacer - Main reason to try the TKS version to play 4 of this bad boy
Oblivion Ring
Shefet Dunes - This has been amazing and I still want 1 and maybe will go up to 2 Canopy but this has won games that other wise I would of lost and not losing life is nice as well late game.
Gideion, AOZ - Won so many games on the back of this post-board
Cards that have been meh:
The Snow-Covered version overall
Kor FW/Burrenton
Field of Ruin
Dusk/Dawn
Settle the Wreckage
Revoker
Cards I have in deck right now that are still on the fence and need to earn the slots:
Thalia, HC
Blessed Alliance
I was already considering trying TKS over Angel since I like Dunes over Canopy and will be trying out that other version posted at top of this page as well(similar to a Legacy deck I played for a bit) and see if it runs cleaner or even look at putting some TKS in the board.
And Stony is to good at what it does not to play. I can see why people would try to remove but I think not playing it is wrong.
I've been hitting a lot of blood moons on BW Eldrazi Taxes and am going to be trying this out. In my current meta I feel like resilience against blood moon is a bit stronger than what black gives us aside from Bob, and it still has some of the more powerful interactions like displacer and flickerwisps or TKS.
This deck looks great, but can I ask some of you more experienced players for some tips on what to take out when sideboarding. Just some general tips for playing against particular archetypes maybe. What to sideboard in is usually obvious, but a noob like me has a lot of trouble understanding what to take out. It's pretty much the most difficult part of playing the game, for me at least.
Alright alright. Not super exciting, but ignoring Thalia's taxes, this guy can thoughtseize away one card from your opponent's hand. Does it make Red good enough?
Edit:
Abd this one deserves to be mentioned, imo: Slaughter the Strong 1WW Sorcery Each player chooses creatures with total power 4 or less, then sacrifices the rest.
Alright alright. Not super exciting, but ignoring Thalia's taxes, this guy can thoughtseize away one card from your opponent's hand. Does it make Red good enough?
Edit:
Abd this one deserves to be mentioned, imo: Slaughter the Strong 1WW Sorcery Each player chooses creatures with total power 4 or less, then sacrifices the rest.
The red card would be some what situational and with out fetches splashing is really hard to do. There will be a number of times there is nothing we want to cast.
As for Slaughter the Strong, it looks awesome. A close enough in most cases to wrath for 3 mana is a big deal for both DnT with Thalia and in modern in general. Being able to keep a Thalia + arbiter or what ever is huge. It might not be good enough but I am going to give it a fair amount of play testing time in my deck.
It's a good card, but with Thalia out, its real CMC is four or more. As good as it is, I'm not sure it would go in D&T. Humans may be the best shell for this card.
Why fetches? You'll need only red sources to actually cast the pirate and enough any colored mana to cast the free spell. It has first strike too
I think that's not the best we could get of red, but I think it's really nice to have it, even if you have thalia, out. You'll be with two creatures 2/1 first strike with better upsides. It can vialed in too
It's a good card, but with Thalia out, its real CMC is four or more. As good as it is, I'm not sure it would go in D&T. Humans may be the best shell for this card.
Absolutely - Thalia could be a bit of a nonbo but people already run 4 cmc wraths in DnT. Even with Thalia making it 4 cmc, at least you get to keep the Thalia on the board if you want to first strike down what every the opponent kept. As you said it might very well not be for DnT and looks great in humans or vizier druid combo, but I love the idea and will test it.
Why fetches? You'll need only red sources to actually cast the pirate and enough any colored mana to cast the free spell. It has first strike too
I think that's not the best we could get of red, but I think it's really nice to have it, even if you have thalia, out. You'll be with two creatures 2/1 first strike with better upsides. It can vialed in too
Having the red sources consistently is my concern. Other decks can micro splash very easily due to fetches and dual lands, usually only need 1-2 sources of the splashed color. Of course vial gets around that but we don't always have vial and should not be relied on so heavily. We don't generate much card advantage at all so moderately risking a dead card in hand doesn't seem worth it to me.
The other concern would be in what match ups would you want it and are those also the match ups where you want to use your LD aggressively? That would limit your mana to cast the spell off of it. I don't think those match ups would line up two often but worth thinking about.
For a mono-white list are there any solid sideboard cards out there against 5c Humans? Sunlance only hits a couple of creatures in their deck, and otherwise I think they have enough to run us over. Is Settle The Wreckage the only popular option lately?
Slaughter the strong seems good against traditionally difficult matchups for non black Taxes. Being able to narrow the opponents board down and then have a splicer and golem in play is going to make it hard for whatever is left to attack through profitably, and from there our creatures are just better once we're down to individual top decks compared to Humans or Elves or Merfolk. I'm optimistic that it will be good in testing
For a mono-white list are there any solid sideboard cards out there against 5c Humans? Sunlance only hits a couple of creatures in their deck, and otherwise I think they have enough to run us over. Is Settle The Wreckage the only popular option lately?
What do you guys think of Thraben Inspector vs Dryad Militant against grindier decks like Jeskai Control UW control? It's been getting popular at my lgs. I've found the inspector's clues are sort of helpful in the late game, but I don't usually want the game to go that long because they start to gain the advantage there. I haven't been having any major issues against the decks, but just wondering if my build is optimized to beat the decks I'm facing. I remember Dryad Militant being sooo good against snapcaster decks, as well as it adds a slightly more aggressive approach. Would it be a mistake if I swapped out the 1/2 for the 2/1?
I personally think having the Thraben Inspector is better. You always have RiP in the SB and the card draw from the clues is unmatched for a 1 drop IMO. Another reason I like Thraben more is because when I play with my friend he always tells me how much he hates seeing that card because he doesn't want to "waste" his removal on a 1/2, yet getting pinged for 1 every time with the threat of bouncing it for more card advantage is nothing to scoff at.
In a nutshell: It has done it's part as soon as it hits the battlefield (clue), your opponent will have to use some sort of semi-premium or premium removal to kill it (2 health), and if it isn't taken care of, you can bounce it/get in for 1/block a 1 power dude every turn.
I should have also phrased it differently. I mean that it requires us to take a fairly solid and consistent mana base (mono white with colorless sources)and throw in a lot sources of the splash color - eg the BW DnT mana base. I don't think it would be worth it for just the one card and I don't think there are enough other red cards for it to matter or make it worth it. Even still I don't personally find the BW mana base consistent. As compared to the ease and consistency as say GB rock can splash a single temple garden or godless shrine for lingering souls due to fetches and still be super consistent.
So I am not saying we should play fetches, I am just saying that since we can't play fetches that splashing has a real cost to the deck.
What do you guys think of Thraben Inspector vs Dryad Militant against grindier decks like Jeskai Control UW control? It's been getting popular at my lgs. I've found the inspector's clues are sort of helpful in the late game, but I don't usually want the game to go that long because they start to gain the advantage there. I haven't been having any major issues against the decks, but just wondering if my build is optimized to beat the decks I'm facing. I remember Dryad Militant being sooo good against snapcaster decks, as well as it adds a slightly more aggressive approach. Would it be a mistake if I swapped out the 1/2 for the 2/1?
Just as ParkerDrake said, but there was also some good discussion on it maybe 5 pages back. Just search this thread if you want to see it.
@ppkitty So it'll end up like other splash colors but green. All splashes [except green] from dnt has its issues and upsides. I guess I was planning to ask if it is one of the cards that makes red finally good enough. It wouldn't be just because of one card, but others, like P&K Nalaar, Magus of the Moon, Harsh Mentor and etc
@ppkitty So it'll end up like other splash colors but green. All splashes [except green] from dnt has its issues and upsides. I guess I was planning to ask if it is one of the cards that makes red finally good enough. It wouldn't be just because of one card, but others, like P&K Nalaar, Magus of the Moon, Harsh Mentor and etc
I do like those cards but I don't think they are worth it. For instance 4 Magus of the Moon are just worse for us then 8-10 LD lands. Harsh Mentor would be great against affinity and devoted druid combo but not sure it would be more effective then big Thalia or wasteland strangler. The Nalaars are also just worse then lingering souls in most cases so would be better in my opinion to just run Catmix's lingering taxes list.
Not trying to be harsh or put down your idea, these are just the thoughts that would prevent me going that way. In all the cases I can think of BW is the only viable splash these days.
Hey guys, what do you think of the new 1B pirate, 2/2, flash, deathtouch and (ignored pirate ability)? Wondering if he can be useful at BW version, as we can tick vial to 3 and still be able to do some block tricks with him. Also, he is a good attacker, with deathtouch, and could be even better if you play freebooters instead of Tidehollows.
I do like those cards but I don't think they are worth it. For instance 4 Magus of the Moon are just worse for us then 8-10 LD lands. Harsh Mentor would be great against affinity and devoted druid combo but not sure it would be more effective then big Thalia or wasteland strangler. The Nalaars are also just worse then lingering souls in most cases so would be better in my opinion to just run Catmix's lingering taxes list.
Not trying to be harsh or put down your idea, these are just the thoughts that would prevent me going that way. In all the cases I can think of BW is the only viable splash these days.
I don't want to sound harsh too, but WG and WU are really good and personally, I find WG the best splash dnt can have. But I tried to explore at red a long time ago. P&K is what makes the deck even to lingering souls itself. If you ever want to test WR someday, I'm sure you'll end up loving it and wishing red to be better any time soon. But it's really hard to build something to make red really good enough. I've mentioned the "piratecaster" as a reason to finally go test red. I've also tried Magus of the Moon, Simian Spirit Guide, Lightning Bolt and those are just ok to meh. But I see your point in WBc as consistent. I'd like to play a version with two colors instead of going back to WB Eldrazi and Taxes. But I appreciate your opinion about WR. I'd like if it would be a bit more resilient and perhaps I so desperately want WR to be better that I might've overrated the pirate
1) I have been thinking about running a playset of Flagstones of Trokair but I am little bit afraid of the nonbo with Leonin Arbiter. Have you got any experience with it, does it come up often that this punishes you?
2) Most mono-white death and taxes decks play playsets of Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge and maybe one or two Field of Ruin. Have you ever thought about switching the numbers of Tectonic Edge and Field of Ruin while also playing a playset of Aven Mindcensors (and of course Leonin Arbiters) to attack our opponents' manabases with greater pressure and even when they have less than four lands keeping them of casting even their cheaper spells, which are in majority in modern, while also getting basic lands out of our deck into play? Having more hate cards for searching library would also make it harder for our opponents to fetch while also hitting cards like Traverse the Ulvenwald, Gifts Ungiven, Expedition Map, Chord of Calling etc.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts and opinions
I'll be honest with you about tec/field... you'll be running 4 GQ which is a lot against any deck and hoses even more with Leonin. when you play a playset of Aven Mindcensor is overkill, imo. I can see you playing 2 in your 75 to maximize your win rate against chord, valakut and other search-something.dec decks.
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Restoration Angel
Spells:10
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Mutavault
9 Plains
3 Shefet Dunes
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Auriok Champion
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Sunlance
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
1 Settle the Wreckage
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
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Introduction to Tempo
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3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Selfless Spirit
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Blade Splicer
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Flickerwisp
4 Restoration Angel
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
9 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Shefet Dunes
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Stony Silence
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Mirran Crusader
Been playing this for the last month trying to learn Modern(legacy player only) and its been fine. Tried the BW version and lost tons of games to the manabases inconsistenty and cards like Blood Moon.
General Non-detailed notes....
Cards that have overperformed:
Selfless Spirit - Started with 0 and 2 seems just right.
Displacer - Main reason to try the TKS version to play 4 of this bad boy
Oblivion Ring
Shefet Dunes - This has been amazing and I still want 1 and maybe will go up to 2 Canopy but this has won games that other wise I would of lost and not losing life is nice as well late game.
Gideion, AOZ - Won so many games on the back of this post-board
Cards that have been meh:
The Snow-Covered version overall
Kor FW/Burrenton
Field of Ruin
Dusk/Dawn
Settle the Wreckage
Revoker
Cards I have in deck right now that are still on the fence and need to earn the slots:
Thalia, HC
Blessed Alliance
I was already considering trying TKS over Angel since I like Dunes over Canopy and will be trying out that other version posted at top of this page as well(similar to a Legacy deck I played for a bit) and see if it runs cleaner or even look at putting some TKS in the board.
And Stony is to good at what it does not to play. I can see why people would try to remove but I think not playing it is wrong.
This deck looks great, but can I ask some of you more experienced players for some tips on what to take out when sideboarding. Just some general tips for playing against particular archetypes maybe. What to sideboard in is usually obvious, but a noob like me has a lot of trouble understanding what to take out. It's pretty much the most difficult part of playing the game, for me at least.
Edit:
Abd this one deserves to be mentioned, imo:
Slaughter the Strong 1WW Sorcery Each player chooses creatures with total power 4 or less, then sacrifices the rest.
The red card would be some what situational and with out fetches splashing is really hard to do. There will be a number of times there is nothing we want to cast.
As for Slaughter the Strong, it looks awesome. A close enough in most cases to wrath for 3 mana is a big deal for both DnT with Thalia and in modern in general. Being able to keep a Thalia + arbiter or what ever is huge. It might not be good enough but I am going to give it a fair amount of play testing time in my deck.
I think that's not the best we could get of red, but I think it's really nice to have it, even if you have thalia, out. You'll be with two creatures 2/1 first strike with better upsides. It can vialed in too
Absolutely - Thalia could be a bit of a nonbo but people already run 4 cmc wraths in DnT. Even with Thalia making it 4 cmc, at least you get to keep the Thalia on the board if you want to first strike down what every the opponent kept. As you said it might very well not be for DnT and looks great in humans or vizier druid combo, but I love the idea and will test it.
Having the red sources consistently is my concern. Other decks can micro splash very easily due to fetches and dual lands, usually only need 1-2 sources of the splashed color. Of course vial gets around that but we don't always have vial and should not be relied on so heavily. We don't generate much card advantage at all so moderately risking a dead card in hand doesn't seem worth it to me.
The other concern would be in what match ups would you want it and are those also the match ups where you want to use your LD aggressively? That would limit your mana to cast the spell off of it. I don't think those match ups would line up two often but worth thinking about.
Wrath of God and Dusk // Dawn are way better than settle the wreckage, imo
GW Death and Taxes WG
In a nutshell: It has done it's part as soon as it hits the battlefield (clue), your opponent will have to use some sort of semi-premium or premium removal to kill it (2 health), and if it isn't taken care of, you can bounce it/get in for 1/block a 1 power dude every turn.
I should have also phrased it differently. I mean that it requires us to take a fairly solid and consistent mana base (mono white with colorless sources)and throw in a lot sources of the splash color - eg the BW DnT mana base. I don't think it would be worth it for just the one card and I don't think there are enough other red cards for it to matter or make it worth it. Even still I don't personally find the BW mana base consistent. As compared to the ease and consistency as say GB rock can splash a single temple garden or godless shrine for lingering souls due to fetches and still be super consistent.
So I am not saying we should play fetches, I am just saying that since we can't play fetches that splashing has a real cost to the deck.
Just as ParkerDrake said, but there was also some good discussion on it maybe 5 pages back. Just search this thread if you want to see it.
I do like those cards but I don't think they are worth it. For instance 4 Magus of the Moon are just worse for us then 8-10 LD lands. Harsh Mentor would be great against affinity and devoted druid combo but not sure it would be more effective then big Thalia or wasteland strangler. The Nalaars are also just worse then lingering souls in most cases so would be better in my opinion to just run Catmix's lingering taxes list.
Not trying to be harsh or put down your idea, these are just the thoughts that would prevent me going that way. In all the cases I can think of BW is the only viable splash these days.