1) Is SSG good in DnT? Was thinking t1 thalia or arbiter will lock most people out of the game
2) What instances do you play thalia over arbiter T2 and vice versa?
3) Is it profitable to play 2 Horizon canopy in place of 2 Plains in Eldrazi and taxes? (22 lands with 2 Canopy + 1 plains and 1 swamp)
1) Is SSG good in DnT? Was thinking t1 thalia or arbiter will lock most people out of the game
2) What instances do you play thalia over arbiter T2 and vice versa?
3) Is it profitable to play 2 Horizon canopy in place of 2 Plains in Eldrazi and taxes? (22 lands with 2 Canopy + 1 plains and 1 swamp)
Edit: added third question lol
3) no. I would never drop below 3 basics in the deck and 2 of them need to be plains to cast your crusaders, wisps, etc. You also need to have the option to GQ your own land get an on-color basic if you need to fix your own mana sometimes.
Yeah, I've been weighing up the idea of using more Shocks and the new Reveal lands (Port Town/Fortified Village), but I'm not sure.
I don't think Sprite is too tough on the mana base, but Clique might be.
Dryad Arbor pairs up so well with AEther Vial though. I've always wanted to play with that interaction. But maybe you're correct.
The reveal lands are fairly terrible for modern imo. The problem with arbor is that he is a mono green mana source and you definitely don't have enough white sources for reliable t2 arbiter and thalia. Also Coco gets worse as you start putting in reactive creatures, especially conditional ones like sprite.
There are a lot of spoilers coming from ixalan... This one is a huge spoiler for us, imo. Edit: attacking creatures... Not that good as I thought. Misread it
There are a lot of spoilers coming from ixalan... This one is a huge spoiler for us, imo. Edit: attacking creatures... Not that good as I thought. Misread it
Depends on if you want to race I suppose. You can maybe get a blowout? I'm not high on it though as it's too conditional for modern.
I've been playing this archetype for almost 4 years now and it's brought me a lot of success. This is a link to my spreadsheet which I've used to record all my leagues since switching to Eldrazi Taxes. The most important part of the spreadsheet is the probably the matchup win rates against each archetype. I'm not sure if putting it up is disadvantageous for me or not so I'm not sure how long I'll leave it up for.
I think that I have a pretty good grasp on the archetype and of each card in the deck and each potential card that could be in the deck as I've tried out almost anything that's worth trying.
That is some crazy stat work done there. Well done penips, both on your success with the archetype and the amazing amount of data you have kept track of.
I've been playing this archetype for almost 4 years now and it's brought me a lot of success. This is a link to my spreadsheet which I've used to record all my leagues since switching to Eldrazi Taxes. The most important part of the spreadsheet is the probably the matchup win rates against each archetype. I'm not sure if putting it up is disadvantageous for me or not so I'm not sure how long I'll leave it up for.
I think that I have a pretty good grasp on the archetype and of each card in the deck and each potential card that could be in the deck as I've tried out almost anything that's worth trying.
Enjoy.
Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet!
Sounds like you are reluctant to share more info that could hurt your performance which I totally understand but I'll ask anyway. Do you think you would ever stream? Would be cool to watch someone who has been so successful with this archetype.
I've been playing this archetype for almost 4 years now and it's brought me a lot of success. This is a link to my spreadsheet which I've used to record all my leagues since switching to Eldrazi Taxes. The most important part of the spreadsheet is the probably the matchup win rates against each archetype. I'm not sure if putting it up is disadvantageous for me or not so I'm not sure how long I'll leave it up for.
I think that I have a pretty good grasp on the archetype and of each card in the deck and each potential card that could be in the deck as I've tried out almost anything that's worth trying.
Enjoy.
Thanks a lot. This information is priceless for us.
@penips thanks for sharing your information. I think it's pretty important for those interested in Eldrazi and Taxes to see the full spectrum. As you are primarily the face of this variant, it helps clear up a big amount of questions that remained very elusive for many.
I'd love to have you take a look at the primer section for Eldrazi and Taxes and offer some updates. This information could be used for Leonin Library and would mitigate a ton of repetitive content in the forum! Please DM me if you are interested!
Mono-White at GP Vegas. There is a player, T. Meary, that is currently 12-0. I think he's pretty close to locked in for top 8. The Modern format has shaped up to be pretty good for Mono-White again. Thoughts on this???
It was shown for a brief moment in the stream. It looked like a pretty standard Mono-White list, with 2x Serra Avenger, 3-4x Restoration Angel and a Mirran Crusader in the main deck. I'm pretty sure he is running 4x Horizon Canopy, which makes it a no-go for me, at least until that land is reprinted.
At 12-0, I am certain he'll make the top 8 and we'll see his deck towards the end of the day.
It would be crazy for both Legacy and Modern at GP Las Vegas to be won by Death & Taxes!
By the way, at the round 12 rankings, we can see that Theau Mery (Mono-White Death & Taxes) is in first place and Craig Wescoe (WG Hatebears) is in 3rd place. A good day for White Weenie!
I got in another testing session with my playtest partner, this time with Eldrazi and Taxes vs. Counters Company. We played 7 games, 4 pre-board and 3 sideboarded matches alternative play/draw.
Overall pre-sideboard, the matches can feel very swingy. There's not much way for Taxes to interact with their combo outside of path and wasteland stranger, and if they get it online with a payoff card we've already lost. In most of my games that I played, thalia felt very underwhelming with all of their mana dorks that they run. Arbiter on the other hand felt incredible. If you catch them with only a dork in play or a turn 1 viscera seer, the play line of leonin arbiter into GQ can seal away an entire game. In addition to this, his tax for chord especially in multiples or combined with a displacer will be able to severely limit their ability to find the last piece of their combo. Tidehollow sculler also overperformed in the matchup pre-board. They run practically zero removal save for the lone fiend hunter, so getting them with sculler was often a permanent exile effect for whatever I decided to take. The deck is also very weak to getting the hard lock of flickerwisp, displacer, and strangler online. Most of the games I won in our session were due to locking my opponent out of the game by eating two of his permanents each turn, including processing a gavony township to kill a vizier of remedies.
Post sideboard notes. The matchup feels more in our favor after sideboarding. The majority of their creatures are X/1's so orzhov pontiff can often be a 2-for-1 or more. He can be combined with a flickerwisp and vial to give their team -2/-2 for the entire turn which is often enough to put a game away as well. Fatal push is there as additional ways to break up the combo. Grafdigger's cage is the ultimate hard lock on their game plan. It shuts off the finks combo, It makes the vizier/druid combo much harder to assemble, and it completely shuts off their payoff cards unless they're already in their hand by making company and chord dead draws. Finally Linvala will often put the final nail in the coffin. I was originally on revoker in the side for additional hate, but they often side into a more grindy deck and add in a few pieces of removal to the point that revoker isn't often necessary, and that linvala is where you want to be. Again most of the games ended when the lock with strangler, displacer, and wisp was assembled as you begin to just start eating their creatures with wisp and strangler clearing the way for wisp to close out of the game pretty quickly. As a side note, while tidehollow sculler is excellent game one, I sided one out in the following games as it does get slightly worse with them bringing in more removal.
Overall, before we began testing I believed the matchup to be unwinnable pre-side. However, while it doesn't seem like we're favored it is at least fairly even in my opinion. It can however also be very draw dependent. If your opponent is running hot and just jams the combo, that's often it if you don't have the immediate path for it. Post side however, I think it shifts well into our favor. Cage is a powerhouse against them, and the additional removal and utility of push and pontiff allow you to out-grind them in most games while also insuring you don't outright lose to the combo unless they catch you without removal.
side note, with 6 removal spells you will have approximately a 54% chance of seeing at least one in your opening seven on the play and 59% on the draw. These go up to 64% for each if you need to have the spell by turn 3 on the play or turn 2 on the draw. Finally if you include cage in these stats and consider it as impactful as a removal spell, then the probability of seeing a spell that matters by turn 3 goes up to 75% and if you're running a build with 3 removal spells then this percentage almost hits 80%. Use this to determine if you want to run a third removal spell, or settle for 2.
People who play with E&T list with 2 Dark Confidant in the MB - how is it? The higher curve in this deck feels discouraging. With all the 3 drops we play I feel like it would nearly be equivalent to bolting yourself each turn. I get it, I've played with dark confidant before, but it just doesn't feel right in this deck.
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Modern GW Death and Taxes WG
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1) Is SSG good in DnT? Was thinking t1 thalia or arbiter will lock most people out of the game
2) What instances do you play thalia over arbiter T2 and vice versa?
3) Is it profitable to play 2 Horizon canopy in place of 2 Plains in Eldrazi and taxes? (22 lands with 2 Canopy + 1 plains and 1 swamp)
Edit: added third question lol
WBC Eldrazi and Taxes
WCopter and Taxes
CVIAL is layf
3) no. I would never drop below 3 basics in the deck and 2 of them need to be plains to cast your crusaders, wisps, etc. You also need to have the option to GQ your own land get an on-color basic if you need to fix your own mana sometimes.
The reveal lands are fairly terrible for modern imo. The problem with arbor is that he is a mono green mana source and you definitely don't have enough white sources for reliable t2 arbiter and thalia. Also Coco gets worse as you start putting in reactive creatures, especially conditional ones like sprite.
Edit: attacking creatures... Not that good as I thought. Misread it
Depends on if you want to race I suppose. You can maybe get a blowout? I'm not high on it though as it's too conditional for modern.
Your a god. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet!
Sounds like you are reluctant to share more info that could hurt your performance which I totally understand but I'll ask anyway. Do you think you would ever stream? Would be cool to watch someone who has been so successful with this archetype.
Thanks a lot. This information is priceless for us.
I'd love to have you take a look at the primer section for Eldrazi and Taxes and offer some updates. This information could be used for Leonin Library and would mitigate a ton of repetitive content in the forum! Please DM me if you are interested!
Mono-White at GP Vegas. There is a player, T. Meary, that is currently 12-0. I think he's pretty close to locked in for top 8. The Modern format has shaped up to be pretty good for Mono-White again. Thoughts on this???
-Catmix
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
At 12-0, I am certain he'll make the top 8 and we'll see his deck towards the end of the day.
It would be crazy for both Legacy and Modern at GP Las Vegas to be won by Death & Taxes!
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
Interesting list.
Dusk//dawn in SB seems really good.
Also playing silence. What is this used against?
Storm or Ad Nauseum probably?
I put it on my deck lists to continue tilting opponents after the event.
Also he had 2 sunlance not silence.
Also also so close! I'd like to hear the thought process behind that game 2 keep.
I got in another testing session with my playtest partner, this time with Eldrazi and Taxes vs. Counters Company. We played 7 games, 4 pre-board and 3 sideboarded matches alternative play/draw.
Down to the testing notes.
High impact cards: Leonin arbiter, wasteland stranger, tidehollow sculler, eldrazi displacer, flickerwisp.
Low impact cards: Thalia, guardian of thraben
Overall pre-sideboard, the matches can feel very swingy. There's not much way for Taxes to interact with their combo outside of path and wasteland stranger, and if they get it online with a payoff card we've already lost. In most of my games that I played, thalia felt very underwhelming with all of their mana dorks that they run. Arbiter on the other hand felt incredible. If you catch them with only a dork in play or a turn 1 viscera seer, the play line of leonin arbiter into GQ can seal away an entire game. In addition to this, his tax for chord especially in multiples or combined with a displacer will be able to severely limit their ability to find the last piece of their combo. Tidehollow sculler also overperformed in the matchup pre-board. They run practically zero removal save for the lone fiend hunter, so getting them with sculler was often a permanent exile effect for whatever I decided to take. The deck is also very weak to getting the hard lock of flickerwisp, displacer, and strangler online. Most of the games I won in our session were due to locking my opponent out of the game by eating two of his permanents each turn, including processing a gavony township to kill a vizier of remedies.
Sideboarding
-4 thalia, -2 mirran crusader, -1 tidehollow sculler.
+2 fatal push, +2 grafdigger's cage, +2 orzhov pontiff, +1 linvla, keeper of silence.
Post sideboard notes. The matchup feels more in our favor after sideboarding. The majority of their creatures are X/1's so orzhov pontiff can often be a 2-for-1 or more. He can be combined with a flickerwisp and vial to give their team -2/-2 for the entire turn which is often enough to put a game away as well. Fatal push is there as additional ways to break up the combo. Grafdigger's cage is the ultimate hard lock on their game plan. It shuts off the finks combo, It makes the vizier/druid combo much harder to assemble, and it completely shuts off their payoff cards unless they're already in their hand by making company and chord dead draws. Finally Linvala will often put the final nail in the coffin. I was originally on revoker in the side for additional hate, but they often side into a more grindy deck and add in a few pieces of removal to the point that revoker isn't often necessary, and that linvala is where you want to be. Again most of the games ended when the lock with strangler, displacer, and wisp was assembled as you begin to just start eating their creatures with wisp and strangler clearing the way for wisp to close out of the game pretty quickly. As a side note, while tidehollow sculler is excellent game one, I sided one out in the following games as it does get slightly worse with them bringing in more removal.
Overall, before we began testing I believed the matchup to be unwinnable pre-side. However, while it doesn't seem like we're favored it is at least fairly even in my opinion. It can however also be very draw dependent. If your opponent is running hot and just jams the combo, that's often it if you don't have the immediate path for it. Post side however, I think it shifts well into our favor. Cage is a powerhouse against them, and the additional removal and utility of push and pontiff allow you to out-grind them in most games while also insuring you don't outright lose to the combo unless they catch you without removal.
side note, with 6 removal spells you will have approximately a 54% chance of seeing at least one in your opening seven on the play and 59% on the draw. These go up to 64% for each if you need to have the spell by turn 3 on the play or turn 2 on the draw. Finally if you include cage in these stats and consider it as impactful as a removal spell, then the probability of seeing a spell that matters by turn 3 goes up to 75% and if you're running a build with 3 removal spells then this percentage almost hits 80%. Use this to determine if you want to run a third removal spell, or settle for 2.
GW Death and Taxes WG