I think its probably just better to play Aven Mindcensor or stone cloaker if you want a 3cmc flash creature. Flickerwisp is nice because some times all you need is a sorcery speed way to remove a blocker and swing for lethal, this new creature can't do that. If you want to get rid of the attacker for a turn you are going to have to take a hit and flash this in on end step, otherwise its not going to get to swing in for any damage after it fogs an attack.
Hi guys, Im thinking about changing some things on my E&T list, can you give me your thoughts? Has anyone tested 5 removals instead of 4, like in this build?
Anyone else think Cast Out (from Amonkhet) will make a strong sideboard card? It's Oblivion Ring with Flash and Cycling for one extra mana. Seems decent to me.
Did anyone tested 5 removal spells on the MB? Im trying to test it too (4 PtE + 1 Fatal Push), but I dont know if a single Restoration Angel is better in the place of fatal push. Playing a WB E&T list with 4 TKS.
@mightbenno Honestly I found this list from states and kind of liked it. I just changed the 2 Aven Mincensor's to Smuggler's Copter. A lot of Burn and Skred in my area, hence the 3 Kor Firewalkers, also actually pretty decent for Storm too. I played one and my opponent was trying to go off and realized he couldn't. I love Thalia, Heretic Cathar but she's not better than other 3 drops. I've been considering Hero of Bladehold as a finisher. I went with Aegis because you can just vial it in and fizzle them and it's not dead if it isn't in your opening hand.
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Playing: Modern: BWEldrazi and TaxesBW Legacy: WEldraziW
@mightbenno Honestly I found this list from states and kind of liked it. I just changed the 2 Aven Mincensor's to Smuggler's Copter. A lot of Burn and Skred in my area, hence the 3 Kor Firewalkers, also actually pretty decent for Storm too. I played one and my opponent was trying to go off and realized he couldn't. I love Thalia, Heretic Cathar but she's not better than other 3 drops. I've been considering Hero of Bladehold as a finisher. I went with Aegis because you can just vial it in and fizzle them and it's not dead if it isn't in your opening hand.
I played Skred a lot. Mark of Asylum insta-win against skred 99%.
I run 4 path + 1 push main, and I'm rarely unhappy seing it. It always depend on meta but in a random meta I like having 1 more removal to deal with Tarmo/Death's shadow. Never tried a resto but I feel fine with 4x 4CMC creatures.
Did anyone tested 5 removal spells on the MB? Im trying to test it too (4 PtE + 1 Fatal Push), but I dont know if a single Restoration Angel is better in the place of fatal push. Playing a WB E&T list with 4 TKS.
I run 1 Fatal Push main. I like it. There is lots of targets for it right now. It can be suspect againts Death's Shadow due to the delver beaters though. Their discard package makes the extra removal helpful.
Hey @mightybenno, can you tell me your results with the GW Taxes?
I'd tested the monowhite Eldrazi version and i have some dificult against Bant Eldrazi and Affinity ( against the bant was unlucky draws ), Affinyt i was done in a few turns even using the sideboard
Then i decided to run the GW version, so if you can tell me i'll appreciate
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Modern W Death & Taxes W WB Eldrazi & Taxes WB BW BW Eldrazi BW G Green Devotion G RW Norin Sisters RW GB Delirium Emrakul's end GB
Duel CmD W Thalia, Guardian of Thraben W BW Karlov BW
We are about to have another season of Magic upon us and the pickings for cards is as questionable as ever! We almost always get some cards that are interesting in theory but never auto slots into our archetype. I do find it interesting the way perceptions change over periods of time. I suggested previously that Smuggler's Copter was a playable card and that ended up being true (fringe but true). Anyway, lets dive in and see what cards possibly make the cut this time around...
Gideon of the Trials:
This is non-creature spell but it is the closest to a playable planeswalker I think we are ever going to see printed. Its obviously a high power card and the applications are very controlling (which is a DNT trait). The biggest question I have for this card is, "How many should be ran if built into a dedicated list?" I personally am sold based on minimal play testing. I have seen great utilization against Lilian of the Veil and Tarmogoyfs. Doesn't take much more to tip me into 3-4 copies after that.
Harsh Mentor:
I think this is a step in the right direction for RW DNT. I am not sure alone this changes the power level enough to move a metric (Tier regards). I have gone back and revisited my Ajani & Taxes list and found some success with a newer build but I still feel the deck is in a tougher spot than other variations. I am actually more concerned about Burn accessing this card than anything we are thinking of doing with it. I would suggest if Burn is in your meta in the next month, re-align your life (gain) sb options to deal with this card.
Vizier of Deferment:
Barely on the list for me. I think the saving grace is the fact the card has flash inherently. 3 drops are already a crowded option and this does not feel better or on par with most of those options. If this sees play though, it has some fantastic interactions with ETB cards obviously.
There are a ton of fringe-level cards that CMC either got in the way or we have access to cards inherently more powerful. In efforts to streamline the conversation and promote Tiered conversation I will digress on this topic. But what are your thoughts on the cards listed above?
I hate Death's Shadow! And yet that is a good thing! The meta has started to vilify the deck and as per usual, this allows us to pray on a developed (consistent) meta. Over the last month or so, I have bene playing a reasonable amount of MTGO and paper Magic. I have observed a ton of the "best" and most represented strategies. I have been collecting data for my blue, black and mono-white variants of the deck. Below is a list of cards that have been well-positioned or above par recently!
Mirran Crusader:
I think we all knew this was happening. An easy answer to Death's Shadow, Goyf, Tasigur and can live to tell the tale of Fatal Push. Welcome back, my friend!
Smuggler's Copter:
If WOTC can't ban it, play it! I do not think this card is that powerful in Modern but for our deck it helps plug the wholes that do not port from bigger sibling Eternal formats. The evasion, the aggressive casting cost, "free" equipping an looter scooter applications have been beyond impressive. I have been able to survive more sweepers and beat "Opps" in the blind because of this card. Unless we see insane power levels hit in Hour of Devastation or a SFM unban (lol sike) I am probably going to be on this card for quite a bit.
Reflector Mage:
Another card that caught a ban in Standard. This card has also been pretty good at time walking the Opps. If you have any interest in adding a huge tempo shift in your DNT plan, try splashing blue!
Spellstutter Sprite:
SpiderSpace recommended testing this card gain and he was correct about this one. Countering 1 mana spells is great. Having access to auto counter Lotus Blooms & Ancestrals is even better. This card has been better than I ever imagined against so many cards in Modern.
That's the cream of that crop! What do you think and do you have any hidden sleepers to address?
I still am a bit hesitant to go too deep into where we should focus on with builds because Monday still feels so far away. I am actually not hoping for much to change with the Ban announcement. If they do, I wish it would come in the form of a final resolve in a sense. Ban all the "need to be banned" and unban the "meh" stuff. I will be undergoing surgery in about two weeks and probably will have a ton of time to play MTG and type about it! Hit me up!
We've seen some DnT decks sideboard Wraths before, do you think that Dusk could see play in sideboards? It's a grindy card that leaves some of our board state in tact, and in the late game gives us some recursion.
I know @CharonsObol has a spot for that card in his 75 reserved. I have played wrath in board before and while its a great a tool, I tend to not have a strategy that supplements it very well. I usually am trying to play more creatures that are above that 3 (or more) power curve. But as you point out, this leaves us with something and offers a snap caster vibe from the 'yard. I will leave the task of discovery this cards potential to @CharonsObol.
I've try the Mono and BW versions, but i always like the GW combination, maybe because now i can use Voice ( okay, isn't a card to that build i know ). Last time i've trainning with my friend i run a list similar to yours CoCo list. At the moment I am using Birds of Paradise instead of the Noble ($$$ speaking) and the EWit interaction with CoCo is so amazing that i can't change for the Eldrazi power. I will adapt my list and include the Renegade...
Again, thank you so much for the tips. Promisse that i'll report you the results.
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Modern W Death & Taxes W WB Eldrazi & Taxes WB BW BW Eldrazi BW G Green Devotion G RW Norin Sisters RW GB Delirium Emrakul's end GB
Duel CmD W Thalia, Guardian of Thraben W BW Karlov BW
Hello people
Has anyone thought about mainboarding fulminator mage in any of the bw eldrazi taxes lists? Having land hate that can be vialed in might be good. I haven't played that version so I am unfamiliar with how tight on 3 drop flex slots the deck is.
We've seen some DnT decks sideboard Wraths before, do you think that Dusk could see play in sideboards? It's a grindy card that leaves some of our board state in tact, and in the late game gives us some recursion.
I know @CharonsObol has a spot for that card in his 75 reserved. I have played wrath in board before and while its a great a tool, I tend to not have a strategy that supplements it very well. I usually am trying to play more creatures that are above that 3 (or more) power curve. But as you point out, this leaves us with something and offers a snap caster vibe from the 'yard. I will leave the task of discovery this cards potential to @CharonsObol.
Sorry I'm so late to the party! It's been a busy few days.
I actually like Dusk, because it's a conditional Wrath that leaves us with a lot of our taxes. It also gets better with maindeck Selfless Spirit, which is pretty good to have anyway.
The problem with Dusk is that I'm not sure which matchups I would use it for. It's good against decks that put a lot of sizable creatures on the battlefield, and there just aren't many of those. I like Dusk against Merfolk and maybe Zoo, but Affinity, Elves, and Abzan combo dodge the effect just like we do. Maybe it's still worth 2-for-1'ing Jund or Abzan aggro, but it's not typically the blowout that we want it to be. I think Dusk actually gets a lot of its value from the Dawn side, because when BGx makes you discard it and then makes you sacrifice your creatures, you still get back a lot of your board state.
I'm definitely going to test Dusk to Dawn in my sideboard. I think it's typically competing against things in the EE slot (because that's currently the card in my board doing the most work against Merfolk and Zoo), but it does have potential upside in attrition-based matchups.
On another subject, I think with the addition of Harsh Mentor to the red suite, I'm finally going to move over to testing WR D&T. I'll try to have a mini-primer for it sometime this coming summer.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Aether Vial
Creatures (28)
3 Thraben Inspector
2 Harsh Mentor
3 Selfless Spirit
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
3 Magus of the Moon
2 Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
4 Path to Exile
Lands (22)
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Ghost Quarter
8 Plains
Something like this for a start. Probably some Vryn Wingmare's in there to tax harder.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
Here is a R/W list proposed by C.Wescoe - http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13902
Current list:
2 Godless Shrine
2 Concealed Courtyard
2 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 Fatal Push
Creatures
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Flickerwisp
3 Wasteland Strangler
2 Blade Splicer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
If I do this changes:
-4 Thought Knot Seer, -1 Fatal Push, +3 Restoration Angel, +2 Smuggler's Copter
2 Godless Shrine
2 Concealed Courtyard
2 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Smuggler's Copter
Creatures
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Flickerwisp
3 Wasteland Strangler
2 Blade Splicer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Restoration Angel
What do you think?
Also, -1 Tidehollow Sculler +1 Restoration Angel could be good on the first build, too.
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Aether Vial
Creatures (28)
2 Judge's Familiar
3 Selfless Spirit
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Vryn Wingmare
2 Restoration Angel
4 Path to Exile
Lands (21)
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
2 Tectionic Edge
4 Ghost Quarter
14 Plains
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Aegis of the Gods
I'm thinking mono white maybe the way to go. Thraben Inspector has been meh. Going to try Judge's Familiar to protect Thalia's better. Thalia is by far the best card so I'm hoping Vryn Wingmare can be Thalia's 5 and 6. Seems to be an abundance of Fatal Push and Abrupt Decay and hoping to capitalize on that with Mirran Crusader.
With Stony Silence in the SB, Smuggler's Copter may not be the way to go. A third Judge's Familiar and a 3rd Vryn Wingmare might be worth testing.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
I played Skred a lot. Mark of Asylum insta-win against skred 99%.
Here's my list:
3 concealed courtyard
2 godless shrine
2 shambling vent
2 plains
1 swamp
1 mutavault
4 ghost quarter
4 eldrazi temple
4 aether vial
1 fatal push
4 path to exile
4 leonin arbiter
1 thalia, heretic cathar
4 flickerwisp
3 eldrazi displacer
4 thought-knot seer
4 tidehollow sculler
3 wasteland strangler
1 elspeth, knight-errant
3 rest in peace
3 stony silence
2 collective brutality
1 zealous persecution
1 mirran crusader
1 shriekmaw
1 kambal, consul of allocation
1 burrenton-forge tender
1 celestial purge
1 engineered explosives
I lost against Blood Moon sometimes, other times i had horrible topdecks.
My Openers are regularly shipped away, mulligan down to 5 a lot of times.
Sideboarding is difficult too.
Do i want to side out vial if im boarding Stony silence?
What do we board against Control (UW, WR, UWr)?
Green @ it's best
I run 1 Fatal Push main. I like it. There is lots of targets for it right now. It can be suspect againts Death's Shadow due to the delver beaters though. Their discard package makes the extra removal helpful.
I'd tested the monowhite Eldrazi version and i have some dificult against Bant Eldrazi and Affinity ( against the bant was unlucky draws ), Affinyt i was done in a few turns even using the sideboard
Then i decided to run the GW version, so if you can tell me i'll appreciate
W Death & Taxes W
WB Eldrazi & Taxes WB
BW BW Eldrazi BW
G Green Devotion G
RW Norin Sisters RW
GB Delirium Emrakul's end GB
Duel CmD
W Thalia, Guardian of Thraben W
BW Karlov BW
Amonkhet in Death & Taxes
We are about to have another season of Magic upon us and the pickings for cards is as questionable as ever! We almost always get some cards that are interesting in theory but never auto slots into our archetype. I do find it interesting the way perceptions change over periods of time. I suggested previously that Smuggler's Copter was a playable card and that ended up being true (fringe but true). Anyway, lets dive in and see what cards possibly make the cut this time around...
Gideon of the Trials:
This is non-creature spell but it is the closest to a playable planeswalker I think we are ever going to see printed. Its obviously a high power card and the applications are very controlling (which is a DNT trait). The biggest question I have for this card is, "How many should be ran if built into a dedicated list?" I personally am sold based on minimal play testing. I have seen great utilization against Lilian of the Veil and Tarmogoyfs. Doesn't take much more to tip me into 3-4 copies after that.
Harsh Mentor:
I think this is a step in the right direction for RW DNT. I am not sure alone this changes the power level enough to move a metric (Tier regards). I have gone back and revisited my Ajani & Taxes list and found some success with a newer build but I still feel the deck is in a tougher spot than other variations. I am actually more concerned about Burn accessing this card than anything we are thinking of doing with it. I would suggest if Burn is in your meta in the next month, re-align your life (gain) sb options to deal with this card.
Vizier of Deferment:
Barely on the list for me. I think the saving grace is the fact the card has flash inherently. 3 drops are already a crowded option and this does not feel better or on par with most of those options. If this sees play though, it has some fantastic interactions with ETB cards obviously.
There are a ton of fringe-level cards that CMC either got in the way or we have access to cards inherently more powerful. In efforts to streamline the conversation and promote Tiered conversation I will digress on this topic. But what are your thoughts on the cards listed above?
Existing Tools that got way better
I hate Death's Shadow! And yet that is a good thing! The meta has started to vilify the deck and as per usual, this allows us to pray on a developed (consistent) meta. Over the last month or so, I have bene playing a reasonable amount of MTGO and paper Magic. I have observed a ton of the "best" and most represented strategies. I have been collecting data for my blue, black and mono-white variants of the deck. Below is a list of cards that have been well-positioned or above par recently!
Mirran Crusader:
I think we all knew this was happening. An easy answer to Death's Shadow, Goyf, Tasigur and can live to tell the tale of Fatal Push. Welcome back, my friend!
Smuggler's Copter:
If WOTC can't ban it, play it! I do not think this card is that powerful in Modern but for our deck it helps plug the wholes that do not port from bigger sibling Eternal formats. The evasion, the aggressive casting cost, "free" equipping an looter scooter applications have been beyond impressive. I have been able to survive more sweepers and beat "Opps" in the blind because of this card. Unless we see insane power levels hit in Hour of Devastation or a SFM unban (lol sike) I am probably going to be on this card for quite a bit.
Reflector Mage:
Another card that caught a ban in Standard. This card has also been pretty good at time walking the Opps. If you have any interest in adding a huge tempo shift in your DNT plan, try splashing blue!
Spellstutter Sprite:
SpiderSpace recommended testing this card gain and he was correct about this one. Countering 1 mana spells is great. Having access to auto counter Lotus Blooms & Ancestrals is even better. This card has been better than I ever imagined against so many cards in Modern.
That's the cream of that crop! What do you think and do you have any hidden sleepers to address?
Amonkhet in Death & Taxes
I still am a bit hesitant to go too deep into where we should focus on with builds because Monday still feels so far away. I am actually not hoping for much to change with the Ban announcement. If they do, I wish it would come in the form of a final resolve in a sense. Ban all the "need to be banned" and unban the "meh" stuff. I will be undergoing surgery in about two weeks and probably will have a ton of time to play MTG and type about it! Hit me up!
-Catmix
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
I know @CharonsObol has a spot for that card in his 75 reserved. I have played wrath in board before and while its a great a tool, I tend to not have a strategy that supplements it very well. I usually am trying to play more creatures that are above that 3 (or more) power curve. But as you point out, this leaves us with something and offers a snap caster vibe from the 'yard. I will leave the task of discovery this cards potential to @CharonsObol.
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
Really! Thank you very much!
I've try the Mono and BW versions, but i always like the GW combination, maybe because now i can use Voice ( okay, isn't a card to that build i know ). Last time i've trainning with my friend i run a list similar to yours CoCo list. At the moment I am using Birds of Paradise instead of the Noble ($$$ speaking) and the EWit interaction with CoCo is so amazing that i can't change for the Eldrazi power. I will adapt my list and include the Renegade...
Again, thank you so much for the tips. Promisse that i'll report you the results.
W Death & Taxes W
WB Eldrazi & Taxes WB
BW BW Eldrazi BW
G Green Devotion G
RW Norin Sisters RW
GB Delirium Emrakul's end GB
Duel CmD
W Thalia, Guardian of Thraben W
BW Karlov BW
Has anyone thought about mainboarding fulminator mage in any of the bw eldrazi taxes lists? Having land hate that can be vialed in might be good. I haven't played that version so I am unfamiliar with how tight on 3 drop flex slots the deck is.
I actually like Dusk, because it's a conditional Wrath that leaves us with a lot of our taxes. It also gets better with maindeck Selfless Spirit, which is pretty good to have anyway.
The problem with Dusk is that I'm not sure which matchups I would use it for. It's good against decks that put a lot of sizable creatures on the battlefield, and there just aren't many of those. I like Dusk against Merfolk and maybe Zoo, but Affinity, Elves, and Abzan combo dodge the effect just like we do. Maybe it's still worth 2-for-1'ing Jund or Abzan aggro, but it's not typically the blowout that we want it to be. I think Dusk actually gets a lot of its value from the Dawn side, because when BGx makes you discard it and then makes you sacrifice your creatures, you still get back a lot of your board state.
I'm definitely going to test Dusk to Dawn in my sideboard. I think it's typically competing against things in the EE slot (because that's currently the card in my board doing the most work against Merfolk and Zoo), but it does have potential upside in attrition-based matchups.
On another subject, I think with the addition of Harsh Mentor to the red suite, I'm finally going to move over to testing WR D&T. I'll try to have a mini-primer for it sometime this coming summer.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps