Where have you read such articles because I don't really think it's true. He doesn't do anything that really falls in line with our plan. I'd rather just play Ally of Zendikar if I'm going to play a Gideon. He "might" be a sideboard card against Lantern Control and Ad Nauseum.
Are we allowed to post list with spoiled cards in them or do we have to wait until they're released?
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Playing: Modern: BWEldrazi and TaxesBW Legacy: WEldraziW
There was an article a few weeks ago on Modern Nexus about a Death and Taxes list that the author was working on. For reference: http://modernnexus.com/somethings-missing-death-taxes/ The author stated that he thinks there is just something missing that can push this deck over.
I've read a few articles now by people that seem to think the new Gideon would work well in this deck. I'd like to hear your opinions on this?
Is something preventing you from going back literally one page (to page 143) and reading people's opinions on it from the day it was spoiled? There was a fair amount of back and forth there; it should be enough to help you make your own judgement.
I'm slowly becoming a fan of Smuggler's Copter as the "something" the deck is missing. A lot of times there just feels like there isn't enough card advantage or filtering and it combos well with Thraben Inspector and Blade Splicer.
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Playing: Modern: BWEldrazi and TaxesBW Legacy: WEldraziW
I agree. It depends on the speed of your meta, but if it is slow enough, copter puts in work. Its a consistent damage source and gets you to key cards in the matchup. I ofren find myself digging for path's for example in the death shadow matchup, or gq in tron matchup. It also lets you do something with extra legendaries, which can be a real problem for the 7x thalia versions. Its not as good after sideboard since your relevant card density goes up, but I rarely side all of them out. The biggest down side bt far is the akward nobo with original thalia, but if thalia is important enough to cast before copter, then usually she eats a push or bolt anyway.
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I think the biggest problem with harsh mentor, is that he does not actually stop opponents from using abilities, and jut damages them which won't stop them getting to wraths, and other important plays needed to stabilize. I'm optimistic that it will still be good enough, but when it comes to fetches, it's not anywhere close to arbiter. I think it shines the most against scooze and kiki combo, but also hits some relevant check marks against knight fall, affinity, and tron. I certainly think it could see play in the right meta.
It always depends on how to approach the matter. It's not necessarily an arbiter replacement, although it could be if you wanted it to. You can play the Mentor alongside Tunnel Ignus and then a fetchland of your opponent becomes a free Thunderous Wrath. Playing red also grants the good ol' Bolt AND Boros Charm, which is a Counterspell against wrath effects (and even 'counters' Verdict). Maybe you don't even want Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in your mainboard, or in the 75. Maybe you just tax in damage. So suddenly, them taking up to 8 damage to wrath (Fetch 1, Mentor +2, untapped Schokland +2, Tunnel Ignus +3) -although in a dream land- is not that bad of a trade as it can basically count as a free combat phase for you. Alternatively, it can cost les dmg but you get another attack step and more chances of playing preemptive answers to a wrath like Selfless Spirit. In this way you don't care them losing lands or not with arbiter, you have reach and can sneak early damage through combat + free damage from opponent's playing magic and finish off a burn spell. Although it's likely that it won't develop exactly like that in many games, I think I make my point. Maybe instead of Arbiter and little thalia you want Simian Spirit Guide and Big Thalia.
I'm not saying go play Harsh Mentor and Tunnel Ignus, and I would certainly never say they can replaces Arbiter or Thalia. Just saying it helps the archetype of WR taxes, and it's likely a key card to beat Tron, Griselbrand reanimator, affinity and coco, while punishing people for playing fetches. When your opponent's life total is 12/14 instead of 20, the amount of games you will lose 1 or 2 turns before winning will decrease significantly. It's just a matter of finding the right configuration and see if the archetype can approach the metagame correctly.
Harsh Mentor may be utter trash, but it doesn't look like that.
EDIT: Card also seems pretty good against Lantern Control.
I'm envisioning a variant of our deck that is tax damage. I'm seeing bolt and eidolon of the great revel alongside tunnel ignus, and harsh mentor. Essentially, your opponent takes a ton of damage for just playing the game. I'm not sure this is better than what we are trying to do now, but it's an avenue to pursue.
Sorry it took me awhile to get back to responses. I like Each of the 1 drops in different metas, but when it is an unkown or very diverse meta I usually run no 1 drops or militant; It is aggressive, blocks decently enough to buy time to make it to our beefier creatures, hates on goyfs, snapcaster, storm etc... and just decent all around creature. next most used in that slot would be judge's familiar, and I usually don't run multiples of Gideon, unless i am in a meta where i am likely to usually be the aggressor. and as mentioned before inspector really just doesn't fit my play-style. in infect and affinity dominated metas I will run 4 Icatian Javelineers.
I'm slowly becoming a fan of Smuggler's Copter as the "something" the deck is missing. A lot of times there just feels like there isn't enough card advantage or filtering and it combos well with Thraben Inspector and Blade Splicer.
I don't have more cards than a playsets of cards like Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Temple so when I build my Eldrazi Tron I had to takes those cards from my WB DnT deck. But since I really like the archetype and my meta is full of Tron and Blood Moon decks I just want to try building Mono W DnT with Thraben Inspector, Smugglers Copter and Bladesplicers.
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
@fink: I have run very similar in the past. I would run the crusader in the side and 23 lands to be able to cast eldrazi without temple, I also liked elspeth main, the evasion that it gives to cards like thought-knot and reality smasher is very useful, elspeth also beats control and midrange on its own, so unless your meta is mostly aggro i would throw it in the main.
@Finkllestein: I'm playing something similar also. Going off the results posted on MTG Goldfish, it's not as powerful as the BW E&T variant - but it's certainly a lot smoother (and IMO funner) to play.
I agree with what HugeElfBoy is saying. I'd also recommend Blade Splicer with all the blinkers in your deck; Smuggler's Copter as an evasive and resilient looter and threat e.g. copter into Selfless Spirit is nice when disruption matters less; and Sunlance in the sideboard, though this is obviously meta dependent. I don't know if it's better than Ghostly Prison, but with 4 Selfless Spirit in the main, I'm running 2 Wrath of God in the side for creature match ups.
Here would be my starting point for going to harsh mentor rw taxes, although it's definitely a more hate bear build and if archetype type becomes popular may gets its own sexton.
New 4 cmc runed halo spoiled. I was actually wondering yesterday if a combo of runed halo/ nevermore, or some kind of reflector mage enchantment would be playable and they apparently decided to give us the card today.
Is the never more half worth paying the extra two mana? I'll probably try one for a bit.
What do you guys think about the new spoiled uncomming Vizier of Deferment?
2W
Creature - Human Cleric
Flash
When Vizier of Deferment enters the battlefield, you may exile target creature if it attacked or blocked this turn. Return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control at the beginning of the next end step.
I think it might be worth a try, doesn't look too good, but not too bad either.
An attacking or blocking creature has attacked or blocked, this wording makes the card actually better because you can flash it after combat too.
I just saw that. Definitely a candidate for the deck, but I wouldn't say it replaces wisp. Being a 3/1 flier is important as is being able to hit lands, enchantments, walkers, etc. The timing restriction also means it is worse with edrazi displacer. Maybe it could replace resto in lists that want to ghost quarter more aggressively. The big thing I noticed about it is actually that it is a human. I've been playing around with the Idea of Humans and taxes, and I think the cards are there now. If you go Wr you get Magus of the Moon and now Harsh Mentor. While you lose some of the power of the deck, the clock speeds up tremendously. This seems like a viable alternative to flicker wisp in a build like that because it triggers Thalia's Lieutenant and Champion of the Parish. Also to address one of your concerns I'm pretty sure that you can use this during combat.
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It's body leaves much to be desired, and it targets only creatures which is a huge knock against it. Most removal gets used in the combat phase, so it can still save your creatures, so I'm not sure.
LOVE the artwork on Vizier of Deferment. Also like the idea of a R/W Humans and Taxes deck as suggested by @knto.
Flashing it in to bounce an attacker seems reasonable, especially if the opponent's on an aggressive deck. It isn't as strong a Flickerwisp + Vial since Flickerwisp is evasive and can typically have the option to attack on the next turn, but it has the benefit of providing a similar functionality in one card.
I'm more excited about bouncing a blocker with an ETB ability - it saves the creature, prevents damage (assuming no trample), and allows the ETB ability to be triggered at the start of the end step - particularly relevant if said blocker is a Flickerwisp, but also good good to untap with an extra Golem token in play etc.
I'll be trying out this card in my Mono W Eldrazi & Taxes deck - definitely in the side, maybe in the main. Don't think it replaces Flickerwisp though.
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Are we allowed to post list with spoiled cards in them or do we have to wait until they're released?
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
The second article by the same author has just a little exert on Gideon of the Trials but this is the first deck that I thought of when I saw him spoiled. As mentioned in the first article, it seems like it could be the missing piece for the deck. http://modernnexus.com/foretelling-future-amonkhet-spoilers/
Is something preventing you from going back literally one page (to page 143) and reading people's opinions on it from the day it was spoiled? There was a fair amount of back and forth there; it should be enough to help you make your own judgement.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
I'm envisioning a variant of our deck that is tax damage. I'm seeing bolt and eidolon of the great revel alongside tunnel ignus, and harsh mentor. Essentially, your opponent takes a ton of damage for just playing the game. I'm not sure this is better than what we are trying to do now, but it's an avenue to pursue.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
I don't have more cards than a playsets of cards like Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Temple so when I build my Eldrazi Tron I had to takes those cards from my WB DnT deck. But since I really like the archetype and my meta is full of Tron and Blood Moon decks I just want to try building Mono W DnT with Thraben Inspector, Smugglers Copter and Bladesplicers.
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
8 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Battlefield Forge
1 Wastes
1 Flagstones of Trokair
Noncreture spells (8)
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Reality Smasher
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Declaration in Stone
Anyone playing something similar? Any inputs would be appreciated!
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
I agree with what HugeElfBoy is saying. I'd also recommend Blade Splicer with all the blinkers in your deck; Smuggler's Copter as an evasive and resilient looter and threat e.g. copter into Selfless Spirit is nice when disruption matters less; and Sunlance in the sideboard, though this is obviously meta dependent. I don't know if it's better than Ghostly Prison, but with 4 Selfless Spirit in the main, I'm running 2 Wrath of God in the side for creature match ups.
4x thalia, guardian of thraben
4x Harsh Mentor
3x Zo-Zu the Punisher
4x Tunnel Ignus
3x Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
4x leonin arbiter
4x fulminator mage
4x Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 aether vial
4 Lightning helix
Lands 23
4x ghost quarter
2x tectonic edge
4x needle spores
4x Inspiring Vantage
4x sacred foundry
2x Mountain
3x plains
4x path to exile
4x magus of the moon
2x Fragmentize
1x deflecting palm
2x Rest in peace
2x stony silence
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Quite the opposite, Harsh Mentor is very good against this deck.
Most likely home for it is in Burn's sideboard.
Is the never more half worth paying the extra two mana? I'll probably try one for a bit.
An attacking or blocking creature has attacked or blocked, this wording makes the card actually better because you can flash it after combat too.
In terms of effect, it directly competes with:
Stonecloaker
Restoration Angel
of which I think both are better cards.
Flashing it in to bounce an attacker seems reasonable, especially if the opponent's on an aggressive deck. It isn't as strong a Flickerwisp + Vial since Flickerwisp is evasive and can typically have the option to attack on the next turn, but it has the benefit of providing a similar functionality in one card.
I'm more excited about bouncing a blocker with an ETB ability - it saves the creature, prevents damage (assuming no trample), and allows the ETB ability to be triggered at the start of the end step - particularly relevant if said blocker is a Flickerwisp, but also good good to untap with an extra Golem token in play etc.
I'll be trying out this card in my Mono W Eldrazi & Taxes deck - definitely in the side, maybe in the main. Don't think it replaces Flickerwisp though.