I love Kambal in my E+T list. It is so good turn three against a lot of decks. I have actually won a couple games just from this hitting the field. (Storm, Cheerios, and even burn when they controlled an Eidolon.) Ive felt this has done me a lot more than leyline or firewalker has done against those lists.
In the spoiler below I am going to list my personal core for white death and taxes variants. I am posting this to possibly help the newer players, this is not an end all be all core that should be in primer or anything, nor does is apply to all splashes since many times when adding a color some things may need to be cut. This is only my starting point for every white taxes list I make. Some of the cards may be controversial, but toys core has done me very well over the last couple years.
You'll see from a previous post, I've just started playing B/W Eldrazi and Taxes (indeed, just started playing Modern). The first time with the deck I went 3-1 which I'm putting down to beginner's luck, especially since I have gone 0-4 and 1-3 since. From my perspective (i.e. that of a novice), the deck seems pretty clunky and I'm wondering how much the black colour actually brings (not a rhetorical question, please answer)? When the colour is ditched in favour of mono-white, it appears from inspection of decks posted online that the compatible Eldrazi are always ditched too. Does anyone play 'mono'-white lists including Eldrazi Displacer and Thought-Knot Seer? Why/why not?
@mullefa- I posted a list a page or two back, of the mono white eldrazi list I was playing, it was a bit clunky currently I would run same list except -4 plains +4 caves of koilos, not for black but for a decent land that produces colorless and white.
What a coincidence!
Last week I created a MTGO account and played my first (friendly) league ever last weekend. I went straight 5-0 in matches, 10-1 in games, losing only 1 game in the final match against jund due to mana screw.
I also happened to call the deck Sprit & Taxes^^
...
Hey, awesome. Seems like you're a natural. I like how you found room for flickerwisp. I could be convinced to drop the rattlechains, but they have been playing really well with the drogskol captains, which you're also not playing in favor of reflector mage, it seems. I do think flicker and reflector are higher power level than rattle and captain, but the synergies are really nice.
I'll definitely tool around with that, though. Let us know how your future endeavors fair.
Also - do you like the Gideon that much? I tried him a bit and found it really underwhelming. Like, I know it's good against jund, but i found him rotting in my hand with Thalia in play and would usually just want Mirran Crusader, it seemed.
D&T is down in tier 3 at .6% of the Metagame, but if you combine that with Eldrazi and Taxes listed separately (for some reason...) we're at a combine total of 2.4% of the modern Metagame. Solidly in tier 2. Well done everyone keep on taxing.
Got Destroyed by infect, critiques welcome. I might have made a mistake I am not aware of. Sorry for the quietness, shop is still working on setting up commentary
Round 1: 2-0 against Bant Eldrazi, That one-of Wall of Resurgence saved the day. Blocks eldrazi all day and came back from 1 life through a shambling vents with 3 counters.
Round 2: 2-1 mono black Infect, Crusader is a menace but thankfully having Wasteland strangler and Displacer blinks held them back. Got a free win game 1 from him missing one land drop then getting Ghost Quarter + Arbitered
Round 3: Video Link
Round 4: Lost to Lantern Control, I really need help on this one, I almost never win against this annoying deck
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard UWUW Spirit FlashUW Modern BWEldrazi and TaxesBW UMono Blue ControlU WURGRestore BalanceWURG Legacy WDeath and TaxesW
I won't take up too much space here, but I came up with a budget death and taxes build without vial for those that ask (much different deck but plays similar. ) please keep discussion of these last on links given and not here since this is the competitive forum. I just made the list since I get asked about it quite a bit.
@ChiisaiRamen You boarded out all leonin arbiters against a deck with only 2 basics. Also, Wisp can be really great against inkmoth and to speed up the game in your favor. Eldrazi displacer is better than TKS, imo. I wouldn't ever board displacer out against any creature decks (except bogles for obvious reasons).
That's my point, but I'm not saying you were wrong with your decisions, but I'd do differently than you did.
Got Destroyed by infect, critiques welcome. I might have made a mistake I am not aware of. Sorry for the quietness, shop is still working on setting up commentary
Round 1: 2-0 against Bant Eldrazi, That one-of Wall of Resurgence saved the day. Blocks eldrazi all day and came back from 1 life through a shambling vents with 3 counters.
Round 2: 2-1 mono black Infect, Crusader is a menace but thankfully having Wasteland strangler and Displacer blinks held them back. Got a free win game 1 from him missing one land drop then getting Ghost Quarter + Arbitered
Round 3: Video Link
Round 4: Lost to Lantern Control, I really need help on this one, I almost never win against this annoying deck
Harsh games!
I'm not an expert in D&T, so i'll just give you my 2 cents! Since infect runs only 20~ lands and 8~ fetches, i don't usually side out arbiters against them on the play. If we can choke them on mana, we usually have enough time to seal the deal. On that last game, i'm pretty sure you could have easily won if that spirit was a cat, as your opponent didn't play around it and would be locked out of the game by a path on the dork. That second game, however, i don't really know what to say other than it was pretty bad luck to get one shotted after a TKS... Good luck!
Where can I find the list of Catmix? Thanks[/quote]
Hey, I don't know what catmix is runnin with these days. but the list I 5-0'd with is above that post in the image.
Been jamming competitive leagues last night and today and went 4-1, 3-2, and 3-2 with most of my losses to eldrazi tron surprisingly. I think the match up isn't bad on paper, but walking ballista is a beating. Especially with a basilisk collar on it :(.
Here's my new list for spirits and taxes. Really high on having a nice curve and this one is super consistent.
@ChiisaiRamen You boarded out all leonin arbiters against a deck with only 2 basics. Also, Wisp can be really great against inkmoth and to speed up the game in your favor. Eldrazi displacer is better than TKS, imo. I wouldn't ever board displacer out against any creature decks (except bogles for obvious reasons).
That's my point, but I'm not saying you were wrong with your decisions, but I'd do differently than you did.
I'm not an expert in D&T, so i'll just give you my 2 cents! Since infect runs only 20~ lands and 8~ fetches, i don't usually side out arbiters against them on the play. If we can choke them on mana, we usually have enough time to seal the deal. On that last game, i'm pretty sure you could have easily won if that spirit was a cat, as your opponent didn't play around it and would be locked out of the game by a path on the dork. That second game, however, i don't really know what to say other than it was pretty bad luck to get one shotted after a TKS... Good luck!
Will do next time, seems to be leonin arbiter cut was wrong. Probably need to find a different cut since i like the Selfless Spirits still as air blockers. I think i changed my mind in the end and kept the displacers since they can tap down creatures. Cut would probably be a combination of TKS and displacers then? My line of thought was to cut the most mana taxing creatures
Appreciate the replies from both of you btw
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard UWUW Spirit FlashUW Modern BWEldrazi and TaxesBW UMono Blue ControlU WURGRestore BalanceWURG Legacy WDeath and TaxesW
@ChiisaiRamen You boarded out all leonin arbiters against a deck with only 2 basics. Also, Wisp can be really great against inkmoth and to speed up the game in your favor. Eldrazi displacer is better than TKS, imo. I wouldn't ever board displacer out against any creature decks (except bogles for obvious reasons).
That's my point, but I'm not saying you were wrong with your decisions, but I'd do differently than you did.
I'm not an expert in D&T, so i'll just give you my 2 cents! Since infect runs only 20~ lands and 8~ fetches, i don't usually side out arbiters against them on the play. If we can choke them on mana, we usually have enough time to seal the deal. On that last game, i'm pretty sure you could have easily won if that spirit was a cat, as your opponent didn't play around it and would be locked out of the game by a path on the dork. That second game, however, i don't really know what to say other than it was pretty bad luck to get one shotted after a TKS... Good luck!
Will do next time, seems to be leonin arbiter cut was wrong. Probably need to find a different cut since i like the Selfless Spirits still as air blockers. I think i changed my mind in the end and kept the displacers since they can tap down creatures. Cut would probably be a combination of TKS and displacers then? My line of thought was to cut the most mana taxing creatures
Appreciate the replies from both of you btw
Cutting TKS is fine because he is too slow in this matchup.
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
I'm just taking notes while watching the video. notes are in chronological order.
Wow, thanks for watching it thoroughly.
G1: do never attempt to destroy anything when they have mana up. infect lists have so much protection, it's not worth giving a try. your T2 GQ was wasted way too easily. even if you had an additional path, they could've (and had as you saw later) another piece of protection. you're playing against a fast deck, if they don't do anything until T3, you're in very good condition and can afford to wait.
The way he played already signaled to me that he does indeed have protection. I've found that its useless to play around this as they will never commit and always leave that protection up. With the many times I play infect it was always best to kill things on your turn or after their combat so you don't walk into protection with pump during combat, if they have it then they have it.
Its not just a fast deck, its burst too so waiting doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna be in good shape.
Boarding: never board out arbiters. they play 8-10 fetches. if you screw their mana, you win easily. board out slow creatures like TKS, Wall.
selfless spirit is a blocker, yes, but other than that it is useless. you still have GQ against Nexus with 4 path and another couple of stranglers. strange to me that you decided to put spirit in for blocking and board out wisp, which is also a blocker but much stronger due to the etb.
That seems to be the general consensus and I agree, boarding out Arbiters are definitely a mistake. Choking them on mana would have allowed me to push him into having to go for it without leaving mana for his protection spells and more comfortably resolve a removal spell.
Wall is a good suggestion, ill board that out next time
Spirit for Wisp is a curve cut. Because I might need a blocker earlier for air Id rather have spirits than wisps. Yes they both fly but getting them out a turn earlier helps, if what i want is to have a blocker more importantly than having access to a flicker.
G2: i'd probably rather play displacer instead of tks. that way GQ is still open and at least representing a path to exile which the infect player may want to play around. if you survive the turn and he just attacks for 3 unblockable, leaving mana up, you won an active displacer and a turn.
other than that the games were over too quickly to really comment the infect player had strong hands after all
if you're struggeling with infect that hard, you may want to add spellskite to your sb
Yeah, TKS seems to be the cut in this match up. Not struggling with infect though, I wanted critique to tighten up play in case they drew strong hands like that the next time i face it. I used to have spellskites but I have cut them for selfless spirits because of fatal push. Local meta has a lot of them and a lot less lightning bolt. I've been liking the selfless spirits a ton now, they're very similar to spellskites with regard to the type of removal people run nowadays and it has added benefit of putting a clock and stopping board sweeps.
can't really say i have experience with E&T, but against lantern i usually try to get thalia out as early as possible and get as much damage in as possible before bridge comes down. i sandbag all my wisps for it to get a lethal attack later on. i play gw, which is easier to win with in that matchup. eternal witness can get important cards that got milled and noble hierarch gets under the bridge. lantern is one of the few decks i find kataki better than stony silence, as they have very little mana to operate with. engineered explosives out of the board is also pretty good.
I think it is easier with GW as well, I just went and made room for 4 leylines of sanctity in my sb. I feel like even stony silence isn't easy to get going, they either mill it or discard it unless you're lucky enough to draw it in an opportune moment. Same goes with flickerwisp, they get discarded or milled away. With the Leylines i hope i can prevent them from ripping my hate cards off my hands and reduce their ability to control my draws
Thanks again for the input
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard UWUW Spirit FlashUW Modern BWEldrazi and TaxesBW UMono Blue ControlU WURGRestore BalanceWURG Legacy WDeath and TaxesW
I guess that the point is that GQ'ing early also taxes you with less mana. You're right about timing of removal spell, after combat to prevento pump/protec, but in some cases, you may get a hit from nexus for a single turn just to acomplish your own gameplan, putting your threats on the board. That's not mandatory, but I thought it'd be my line of thought in that scenario.
I know someone on here was playing bant taxes for a while. Was it charons? I have a friend looking to get into D&T and that's the directions he was looking too so i was hoping to find a list to refer him too. If someone has a list they've played to some success I'd love to grab it form you
Also if you want to help me attempt to get modern nexus to group all the D&T variants together feel free to comment on their most recent metagame update article. I've been trying but if more people were vocal it'd probably help the cause.
I know someone on here was playing bant taxes for a while. Was it charons? I have a friend looking to get into D&T and that's the directions he was looking too so i was hoping to find a list to refer him too. If someone has a list they've played to some success I'd love to grab it form you
It was me. Spider even tested one of my Bant lists on one of his streams. As I recall, we ended up going 3-2, losing to a few nut draws.
I'm currently playing Abzan D&T, although I have Bant lists ready to go. The problem with Bant was that I never quite tuned it properly; if I rebuilt it today from scratch, I would probably build it differently than the way my old lists looked. I've actually been much more successful with Abzan. Shoutout to @Catmix for being on the Lingering Souls hype train; that card is much better than I ever imagined.
Anyway, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to answer whatever questions you have.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
I love Kambal in my E+T list. It is so good turn three against a lot of decks. I have actually won a couple games just from this hitting the field. (Storm, Cheerios, and even burn when they controlled an Eidolon.) Ive felt this has done me a lot more than leyline or firewalker has done against those lists.
3-4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4leonin arbiter
2 main/3 in 75 selfless spirit
4 flickerwisp
2 (in75) aven mindcensor
4 blade splicer
2 thalia, heretic cathar
3+ restoration angel or eldrazi displacer
4 vial
4 path
4 ghost quarter
2+ tectonic edge
2+ mutavault
1 eiganjo castle
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Hey, awesome. Seems like you're a natural. I like how you found room for flickerwisp. I could be convinced to drop the rattlechains, but they have been playing really well with the drogskol captains, which you're also not playing in favor of reflector mage, it seems. I do think flicker and reflector are higher power level than rattle and captain, but the synergies are really nice.
I'll definitely tool around with that, though. Let us know how your future endeavors fair.
Also - do you like the Gideon that much? I tried him a bit and found it really underwhelming. Like, I know it's good against jund, but i found him rotting in my hand with Thalia in play and would usually just want Mirran Crusader, it seemed.
So far I've gone up against Tron, Brain in a Jar reanimator, Ad Nauseam, and some sort of R/G burn deck that never got off its feet. So far so good
It has singleton copies of Glen Elendra Archmage and Phyrexian Metamorph.
http://modernnexus.com/metagame-breakdown-jan-17/
D&T is down in tier 3 at .6% of the Metagame, but if you combine that with Eldrazi and Taxes listed separately (for some reason...) we're at a combine total of 2.4% of the modern Metagame. Solidly in tier 2. Well done everyone keep on taxing.
Where can I find the list of Catmix? Thanks
Got Destroyed by infect, critiques welcome. I might have made a mistake I am not aware of. Sorry for the quietness, shop is still working on setting up commentary
Round 1: 2-0 against Bant Eldrazi, That one-of Wall of Resurgence saved the day. Blocks eldrazi all day and came back from 1 life through a shambling vents with 3 counters.
Round 2: 2-1 mono black Infect, Crusader is a menace but thankfully having Wasteland strangler and Displacer blinks held them back. Got a free win game 1 from him missing one land drop then getting Ghost Quarter + Arbitered
Round 3: Video Link
Round 4: Lost to Lantern Control, I really need help on this one, I almost never win against this annoying deck
UWUW Spirit FlashUW
Modern
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
UMono Blue ControlU
WURGRestore BalanceWURG
Legacy
WDeath and TaxesW
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sligh-taxes-budget-with-no-vial/
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/budget-modern/770536-no-vial-white-taxes-hate-bears
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
That's my point, but I'm not saying you were wrong with your decisions, but I'd do differently than you did.
Harsh games!
I'm not an expert in D&T, so i'll just give you my 2 cents! Since infect runs only 20~ lands and 8~ fetches, i don't usually side out arbiters against them on the play. If we can choke them on mana, we usually have enough time to seal the deal. On that last game, i'm pretty sure you could have easily won if that spirit was a cat, as your opponent didn't play around it and would be locked out of the game by a path on the dork. That second game, however, i don't really know what to say other than it was pretty bad luck to get one shotted after a TKS... Good luck!
Where can I find the list of Catmix? Thanks[/quote]
Hey, I don't know what catmix is runnin with these days. but the list I 5-0'd with is above that post in the image.
Been jamming competitive leagues last night and today and went 4-1, 3-2, and 3-2 with most of my losses to eldrazi tron surprisingly. I think the match up isn't bad on paper, but walking ballista is a beating. Especially with a basilisk collar on it :(.
Here's my new list for spirits and taxes. Really high on having a nice curve and this one is super consistent.
Will do next time, seems to be leonin arbiter cut was wrong. Probably need to find a different cut since i like the Selfless Spirits still as air blockers. I think i changed my mind in the end and kept the displacers since they can tap down creatures. Cut would probably be a combination of TKS and displacers then? My line of thought was to cut the most mana taxing creatures
Appreciate the replies from both of you btw
UWUW Spirit FlashUW
Modern
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
UMono Blue ControlU
WURGRestore BalanceWURG
Legacy
WDeath and TaxesW
Cutting TKS is fine because he is too slow in this matchup.
Favourite Deck: Elves (Modern & Legacy)
Standard: New Perspectives Combo
Modern: GW Hatebears | Death and Taxes | Eldrazi and Taxes | Abzan Liege | Abzan Company
Commander: The Gitrog Monster (Combo) | Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper (Control) | RIP Leovold Sultai (Elvestorm, no unfair locks) | Mono G (Yisan or Titania)
Tiny Leaders: Too many decks to keep track of
Pauper: RIP UR Drake | Mono B | GBx Goodstuff | Jund "Melira"
Wow, thanks for watching it thoroughly.
The way he played already signaled to me that he does indeed have protection. I've found that its useless to play around this as they will never commit and always leave that protection up. With the many times I play infect it was always best to kill things on your turn or after their combat so you don't walk into protection with pump during combat, if they have it then they have it.
Its not just a fast deck, its burst too so waiting doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna be in good shape.
That seems to be the general consensus and I agree, boarding out Arbiters are definitely a mistake. Choking them on mana would have allowed me to push him into having to go for it without leaving mana for his protection spells and more comfortably resolve a removal spell.
Wall is a good suggestion, ill board that out next time
Spirit for Wisp is a curve cut. Because I might need a blocker earlier for air Id rather have spirits than wisps. Yes they both fly but getting them out a turn earlier helps, if what i want is to have a blocker more importantly than having access to a flicker.
Yeah, TKS seems to be the cut in this match up. Not struggling with infect though, I wanted critique to tighten up play in case they drew strong hands like that the next time i face it. I used to have spellskites but I have cut them for selfless spirits because of fatal push. Local meta has a lot of them and a lot less lightning bolt. I've been liking the selfless spirits a ton now, they're very similar to spellskites with regard to the type of removal people run nowadays and it has added benefit of putting a clock and stopping board sweeps.
I think it is easier with GW as well, I just went and made room for 4 leylines of sanctity in my sb. I feel like even stony silence isn't easy to get going, they either mill it or discard it unless you're lucky enough to draw it in an opportune moment. Same goes with flickerwisp, they get discarded or milled away. With the Leylines i hope i can prevent them from ripping my hate cards off my hands and reduce their ability to control my draws
Thanks again for the input
UWUW Spirit FlashUW
Modern
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
UMono Blue ControlU
WURGRestore BalanceWURG
Legacy
WDeath and TaxesW
Also if you want to help me attempt to get modern nexus to group all the D&T variants together feel free to comment on their most recent metagame update article. I've been trying but if more people were vocal it'd probably help the cause.
Cheers
I'm currently playing Abzan D&T, although I have Bant lists ready to go. The problem with Bant was that I never quite tuned it properly; if I rebuilt it today from scratch, I would probably build it differently than the way my old lists looked. I've actually been much more successful with Abzan. Shoutout to @Catmix for being on the Lingering Souls hype train; that card is much better than I ever imagined.
Anyway, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to answer whatever questions you have.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps