Why the hate for Leonin Arbiter? The only reason I wouldn't run him as a 4 of is if I'm playing Trophy Mage.
Speaking of Trophy Mage, I'm really excited by a deck that utilizes her. I'm looking forward to more playtesting with her so we can figure out how to make her a viable choice alongside traditional Modern DnT.
@Jendo: Congratulations on the win! I really like your list. If you can believe it, I also piloted an Abzan D&T list yesterday, and it felt pretty good in the current metagame (although I was only running TKS). My only comment about your list is that your manabase is really fragile.
You only have 8 green sources to enable a first-turn Hierarch, and you only have 11 white sources in the whole deck (not including the Hierarchs). To be honest, I'm surprised that this worked for you. I would think the inconsistency would be prohibitive. For example, the odds of you finding a green source in your opening 7 is only about 65%. If one of those happens to be a Hierarch, your odds go down slightly. If you can have either a green source or an Aether Vial, your odds should probably be 80-85%. I'm amazed that no one seemed to burn your Hierarchs, because mine always seem to be a prime target for early removal spells.
Anyway, I really like your list, but the manabase just strikes me as being incredibly inconsistent.
@Catmix: I feel similarly about your list. You only have 8 white sources, 12 if you include the Aether Hubs. That's not very many for a list which includes 8 total copies of Fiend Hunter, Flickerwisp, and Brimaz. I have to believe that certain cards get stuck in your hand. I was running 4 TKS in an Abzan list yesterday with 8 colorless sources, and TKS was stuck in my hand during multiple games. I would imagine that trying to reach double white on the curve is really hard for you to do consistently.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Charons I completely agree, I guess its because a lot of my opponents didn't want to waste removal on something that doesn't do anything alone? Perhaps, not sure, as for the manabase, I am going to agree, a few games it was tight but I honestly saw noble like nearly every game, its strange, always having the mana to cast it too, but however I tend to always see green, I think it was just lady luck on Saturday if I am Honest.
Variance is a two-way street. In a small sample size, sometimes it works, but other times it doesn't.
I'm finding nearly all my lists want Lingering Souls right now, so the black slash might just be a permanent function of my lists lol.
Interestingly enough, I'm finding the same thing. My list yesterday included 4 maindeck copies of Lingering Souls, and I was never unhappy to see it. There was only one time that it wasn't great; I happened to be staring down an Eidolon of the Great Revel with about 10 life left.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
CatMix,
Like the new build...Aethersphere Harvester was the main takeaway I got from Trophy Mage testing. Overall, I didn't like how heavy-loaded D&T became on the 3-Drops when running Trophy Mage and the results weren't impressive playing the Friendly Leagues).
I've ran through with your updated build (running 1 Smuggler's Copter, 1 Aethersphere Harvester instead and 3 Concealed Courtyard + 1 Aether Hub since I don't own 4, kept the Arbiters - Arbiter 4 Life, and snuck in a Kytheon & Reality Smasher as singletons), but mostly identical. I like how it runs so far. 3-2 in my first league (Affinity still sucks and strangely lost to Mono-Red Burn), going to keep running through a few more times and post my thoughts. Love the whole D&T community for constantly innovating and testing and keeping this thread so active.
@charonsobol yell into the microphone, please. The list surprisingly runs fine for the most part. Aethersphere refuels the Hub and flicker can reset the Hub as well. The mutavault as were basics prior so maybe if the mana feels slighted in testing, move to -1 Hub -2 vault and plus 3 basics/White sources. I also mention that the fiend hunger slots are ambiguous. I'm currently testing blade splicer to go wide with vault and avoid liliana pressure. Donny current list really only needs mono white source. Not to mention my list beats up with ghost quarter into flagstones. Are we still talking about these lines of play in 2017 lol. Let's catch up soon.
@bmchu168 im pretty ready for the new meta in black white. I'm pushing the boundaries in this new list and may need to reel back in about 3-4 cards. However, you are right in the fact that Harvester is more powerful than observed in its natural environment (standard). The blue splash is also officially on my shard of cards I avidly want to play with. I guess I'm officially an esper Mage.
@kazral no hate just have a different preference. I ocasionally play arbiter builds.
To those splashing Lingering Souls in Wg builds should we be cutting Collected Company? My meta is turning heavily into at least 66% Abzan Esper Jund sultai and Grixis trying to go over the top of each other and i'm not even sure Death and taxes is where i want to be right now with all the damnations and yahenni's expertise running around but i do want to keep making D&T work.
To those splashing Lingering Souls in Wg builds should we be cutting Collected Company? My meta is turning heavily into at least 66% Abzan Esper Jund sultai and Grixis trying to go over the top of each other and i'm not even sure Death and taxes is where i want to be right now with all the damnations and yahenni's expertise running around but i do want to keep making D&T work.
If you choose to run lingering in GW, yes, but I don't think GW should be running lingering generally and if you are, maybe you should be running BW. They're both value cards and high power cards. In the end, they shouldn't be in the same kind of build. That's not to say either is bad.
I don't disagree I'm just confirming it's really one or the other. The real question it comes down to for me is what's the best build for my meta of midrange trying to go over the top of other midrange. One abzan player just played Ajani Unyielding to try to get an edge. it's pretty bad right now in my local meta.
Deathandcatmix, why did you choose Brimaz over Blade Splicer? I'm thinking about swapping one of my Splicers with the King, in order to have a big hitter that survives Anger. Did you come to the same idea or is there another reason?
Also, running only 22 lands with 4 fourdrops seems risky to me.
Brimaz has the ability to survive a ton of board states that most other three drops cannot. He also builds an army of 1/1s that can crew the Aethersphere Harvester. 22 lands is fine. 23 lands is really more for the decks that aggressively use themed ghost quarters. I'm not running an arbiter build and usually end up using ghost quarters against manlands, Tron and scapeshift. Being on 22 vs. 23 will only show its signs inthe grindiest of games. Which even then its relevance can be on either side of the game. Additional spell or flood?
@charonsobol yell into the microphone, please. The list surprisingly runs fine for the most part. Aethersphere refuels the Hub and flicker can reset the Hub as well. The mutavault as were basics prior so maybe if the mana feels slighted in testing, move to -1 Hub -2 vault and plus 3 basics/White sources. I also mention that the fiend hunger slots are ambiguous. I'm currently testing blade splicer to go wide with vault and avoid liliana pressure. Donny current list really only needs mono white source. Not to mention my list beats up with ghost quarter into flagstones. Are we still talking about these lines of play in 2017 lol. Let's catch up soon.
I always forget about the Ghost-Quarter-your-own-Flagstones line, because most of my lists don't have access to it. Still, you don't want to be in a position where you have to Ghost Quarter your own lands on a regular basis. I know it works, but if that's what you end up typically using it for, it's slightly worse than a basic Plains. (I know that you use GQ for other things too, like basic-checking everybody and blowing up Tron lands.)
We should catch up. The WGb list I played last week is pretty spicy.
To those splashing Lingering Souls in Wg builds should we be cutting Collected Company? My meta is turning heavily into at least 66% Abzan Esper Jund sultai and Grixis trying to go over the top of each other and i'm not even sure Death and taxes is where i want to be right now with all the damnations and yahenni's expertise running around but i do want to keep making D&T work.
I cut CoCo, and I can't say that I miss it. CoCo is very good, but it's also high variance. Souls is just consistently good, and you can use it one half at a time. I actually think that makes it better in a control metagame; Lingering Souls tokens are really hard to remove efficiently.
If you choose to run lingering in GW, yes, but I don't think GW should be running lingering generally and if you are, maybe you should be running BW. They're both value cards and high power cards. In the end, they shouldn't be in the same kind of build. That's not to say either is bad.
I agree with this, to a certain extent. I think that if you add Lingering Souls, you probably want to cut CoCo, because Souls dilutes the probability of you hitting something off of the CoCo. I also think that CoCo wants to pack a list full of 3-drops, to maximize the value out of CoCo. And I even agree with you that CoCo is one of the primary reasons to play WG, so cutting it pushes you towards WB instead.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Hello everyone!
First post here, i have played magic casually for a couple months and decided to go more competetive and build bw e&t as my first modern deck.
Welcome to Magic, to Modern, and to Death & Taxes!
My mainboard is very standard but my sideboard is kinda bad imo, and i have a couple questions:
Ive been looking up the metagame on mtggoldfish and i noticed that most e&t lists run 3-4 rips although dredge lost its popularity and delver seems dead. Is it that good against jund/junk? Or am i missing something?
Well, Dredge was really popular, but it just got hit with a ban a few weeks ago.
To explicitly answer your question, a lot of deck in Modern get value out their graveyard. We aren't (usually) one of them. Consequently, we get to run very strong graveyard hate and get away with it. Rest in Peace is extremely efficient at what it does, and it shuts down Dredge, Living End, Snapcaster Mage, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Kalitas, Delveeverything, and Finks-combo. There are a lot of reasons to run it.
You'll need some kind of graveyard hate, and it's hard to choose something other than RIP or Surgical Extraction. Surgical Extraction is useful against different decks, but can be differently brutal.
2nd qyestion: is kataki and disenchant enough artifact hate or is stony silence absolutely necessary?
Stony Silence is good, but not necessary. That said, I wouldn't run Kataki; Stony Silence is probably better than Kataki. Disenchant is probably fine, although your Affinity matchups should already be pretty good because E&T runs a lot of colorless creatures.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
A thought on renegade rallier: after some testing, I feel that this card mostly enables plays involving mana shenangins whether it be in the form of manafixing ourselves from fetches or GQ, or in the form of extra LD against the opponent. I've tried it in lists that maximize on dudes that sac like selfless spirit or qasali pridemage, and while those plays happen, the more unfair plays seems to be LD ones.
I think it's certainly a strong card, but I'm not sold on it being a staple card for GW.
@SpiderSpace, do you have links to all of your decks in a viewable format? The signatures are broken now and unviewable
That's something in the works. I haven't updated any deck list anywhere yet as this is very much a time for testing for me. Once I feel a bit more confident with my lists and the meta, I'll update them and also change them into links. Sorry about that.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/SpiderSpace Does have my last serious deck of the last meta, but it's not quite the same. However mtggoldfish does update, so my UW trophy list should be popping up on there soon.
If there's any particular decklist you'd like to look at/ talk about, feel free to PM me.
2nd qyestion: is kataki and disenchant enough artifact hate or is stony silence absolutely necessary?
Stony silence is probably the best option, but you can play Kataki and will get similar results.
One thing that can get you frustrated when playing vs a deck like Affinity is when you keep a SS and your opponent plays a few signal pests and ornithopters then just beats you down while your silence sits there doing nothing, or when they get a bunch counters onto their etched champion and you lose to that over a few turns.
Kataki works more like a pyroclam or Thalia vs. artifact decks, I actually like it more vs. things like tron or Restore balance or some of the other artifact decks since it lets you keep in aether vial with out hurting your plan when you draw both.
Kataki is also pretty good for the mirror match since it makes your opponent tap down for their aether vial which can really mess them up if they weren't ready for it, and it also makes any golem tokens they have cost 1 per turn.
2nd qyestion: is kataki and disenchant enough artifact hate or is stony silence absolutely necessary?
Stony silence is probably the best option, but you can play Kataki and will get similar results.
One thing that can get you frustrated when playing vs a deck like Affinity is when you keep a SS and your opponent plays a few signal pests and ornithopters then just beats you down while your silence sits there doing nothing, or when they get a bunch counters onto their etched champion and you lose to that over a few turns.
Kataki works more like a pyroclam or Thalia vs. artifact decks, I actually like it more vs. things like tron or Restore balance or some of the other artifact decks since it lets you keep in aether vial with out hurting your plan when you draw both.
Kataki is also pretty good for the mirror match since it makes your opponent tap down for their aether vial which can really mess them up if they weren't ready for it, and it also makes any golem tokens they have cost 1 per turn.
i play the eldrazi version and i have found that leonin relic-warder is more effective than kataki, war's wage. with a vial it can be used at instant speed and if you have a blink effect ready you can nab more artifacts. also useful against blood moon decks and ad nauseam's leyline of sanctity
Kataki is very good against Affinity Ad Nauseam and Lantern, but not great against tron, imo. Stony Silence is good against all of them, but has no legs. If you're on Eldrazi and Taxes facing a moon deck, vial is your only hope to deploy relic-warder. This "war" is won by Stony Silence for me. But I'm on 3 SS, 1 Sunderintg Growth and 1 kataki in my sideboard right now.
Kataki is very good against Affinity Ad Nauseam and Lantern, but not great against tron, imo. Stony Silence is good against all of them, but has no legs. If you're on Eldrazi and Taxes facing a moon deck, vial is your only hope to deploy relic-warder. This "war" is won by Stony Silence for me. But I'm on 3 SS, 1 Sunderintg Growth and 1 kataki in my sideboard right now.
yeah it might be better to just go three stonys in board
Has anyone tested leyline of the void? I get that its probably worse than rip unless u get it in your opening hand. The thing is i already have leyline and i wont be able to pick up rips before my next tournament.
Leyline of the Void isn't a good choice because it doesn't remove cards that are already in the graveyard. That might not matter if you have Leyline in your opening hand, but if you topdeck it later, it makes a big difference.
I'm not sure which decks you're expecting to see in your metagame, but I'd bring other forms of hate before Leyline. Given you're playing E&T, you might consider maindecking Relic of Progenitus. Ghostly Prison helps fight dredge. Dryad Militant is a decent choice against Snapcaster decks. It depends on which deck vulnerabilities you want to be fixed.
Mostly the possibility to interact with Etched Champion, I guess.
Affinity can be a tough matchup for a lot of reasons, but an Etched Champion wearing a hat or a bunch of armor is really hard for us to interact with.
In the classic version of mono-white D&T, the best option is to start blocking with golem tokens. But E&T has access to manymorecolorlesscreatures, which gives that version of the deck more resilience to Affinity.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Speaking of Trophy Mage, I'm really excited by a deck that utilizes her. I'm looking forward to more playtesting with her so we can figure out how to make her a viable choice alongside traditional Modern DnT.
Anyway, I really like your list, but the manabase just strikes me as being incredibly inconsistent.
@Catmix: I feel similarly about your list. You only have 8 white sources, 12 if you include the Aether Hubs. That's not very many for a list which includes 8 total copies of Fiend Hunter, Flickerwisp, and Brimaz. I have to believe that certain cards get stuck in your hand. I was running 4 TKS in an Abzan list yesterday with 8 colorless sources, and TKS was stuck in my hand during multiple games. I would imagine that trying to reach double white on the curve is really hard for you to do consistently.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Interestingly enough, I'm finding the same thing. My list yesterday included 4 maindeck copies of Lingering Souls, and I was never unhappy to see it. There was only one time that it wasn't great; I happened to be staring down an Eidolon of the Great Revel with about 10 life left.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Like the new build...Aethersphere Harvester was the main takeaway I got from Trophy Mage testing. Overall, I didn't like how heavy-loaded D&T became on the 3-Drops when running Trophy Mage and the results weren't impressive playing the Friendly Leagues).
I've ran through with your updated build (running 1 Smuggler's Copter, 1 Aethersphere Harvester instead and 3 Concealed Courtyard + 1 Aether Hub since I don't own 4, kept the Arbiters - Arbiter 4 Life, and snuck in a Kytheon & Reality Smasher as singletons), but mostly identical. I like how it runs so far. 3-2 in my first league (Affinity still sucks and strangely lost to Mono-Red Burn), going to keep running through a few more times and post my thoughts. Love the whole D&T community for constantly innovating and testing and keeping this thread so active.
@charonsobol yell into the microphone, please. The list surprisingly runs fine for the most part. Aethersphere refuels the Hub and flicker can reset the Hub as well. The mutavault as were basics prior so maybe if the mana feels slighted in testing, move to -1 Hub -2 vault and plus 3 basics/White sources. I also mention that the fiend hunger slots are ambiguous. I'm currently testing blade splicer to go wide with vault and avoid liliana pressure. Donny current list really only needs mono white source. Not to mention my list beats up with ghost quarter into flagstones. Are we still talking about these lines of play in 2017 lol. Let's catch up soon.
@bmchu168 im pretty ready for the new meta in black white. I'm pushing the boundaries in this new list and may need to reel back in about 3-4 cards. However, you are right in the fact that Harvester is more powerful than observed in its natural environment (standard). The blue splash is also officially on my shard of cards I avidly want to play with. I guess I'm officially an esper Mage.
@kazral no hate just have a different preference. I ocasionally play arbiter builds.
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
If you choose to run lingering in GW, yes, but I don't think GW should be running lingering generally and if you are, maybe you should be running BW. They're both value cards and high power cards. In the end, they shouldn't be in the same kind of build. That's not to say either is bad.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Brimaz has the ability to survive a ton of board states that most other three drops cannot. He also builds an army of 1/1s that can crew the Aethersphere Harvester. 22 lands is fine. 23 lands is really more for the decks that aggressively use themed ghost quarters. I'm not running an arbiter build and usually end up using ghost quarters against manlands, Tron and scapeshift. Being on 22 vs. 23 will only show its signs inthe grindiest of games. Which even then its relevance can be on either side of the game. Additional spell or flood?
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
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We should catch up. The WGb list I played last week is pretty spicy.
I cut CoCo, and I can't say that I miss it. CoCo is very good, but it's also high variance. Souls is just consistently good, and you can use it one half at a time. I actually think that makes it better in a control metagame; Lingering Souls tokens are really hard to remove efficiently.
I agree with this, to a certain extent. I think that if you add Lingering Souls, you probably want to cut CoCo, because Souls dilutes the probability of you hitting something off of the CoCo. I also think that CoCo wants to pack a list full of 3-drops, to maximize the value out of CoCo. And I even agree with you that CoCo is one of the primary reasons to play WG, so cutting it pushes you towards WB instead.
However, CoCo isn't the only reason to run green. Hierarch and Stirring Wildwood are still very good without CoCo, and Gavony Township becomes even more threatening with Lingering Souls.
I agree with much of what you're saying, but WG splash for Souls is really powerful.
I keep wanting to attend, but that tuition is ridiculous. I think I'm just going to be in the dark until I can get some financial aid.
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Well, Dredge was really popular, but it just got hit with a ban a few weeks ago.
To explicitly answer your question, a lot of deck in Modern get value out their graveyard. We aren't (usually) one of them. Consequently, we get to run very strong graveyard hate and get away with it. Rest in Peace is extremely efficient at what it does, and it shuts down Dredge, Living End, Snapcaster Mage, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Kalitas, Delve everything, and Finks-combo. There are a lot of reasons to run it.
You'll need some kind of graveyard hate, and it's hard to choose something other than RIP or Surgical Extraction. Surgical Extraction is useful against different decks, but can be differently brutal.
Stony Silence is good, but not necessary. That said, I wouldn't run Kataki; Stony Silence is probably better than Kataki. Disenchant is probably fine, although your Affinity matchups should already be pretty good because E&T runs a lot of colorless creatures.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
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UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
I think it's certainly a strong card, but I'm not sold on it being a staple card for GW.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
That's something in the works. I haven't updated any deck list anywhere yet as this is very much a time for testing for me. Once I feel a bit more confident with my lists and the meta, I'll update them and also change them into links. Sorry about that.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/SpiderSpace Does have my last serious deck of the last meta, but it's not quite the same. However mtggoldfish does update, so my UW trophy list should be popping up on there soon.
If there's any particular decklist you'd like to look at/ talk about, feel free to PM me.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
Stony silence is probably the best option, but you can play Kataki and will get similar results.
One thing that can get you frustrated when playing vs a deck like Affinity is when you keep a SS and your opponent plays a few signal pests and ornithopters then just beats you down while your silence sits there doing nothing, or when they get a bunch counters onto their etched champion and you lose to that over a few turns.
Kataki works more like a pyroclam or Thalia vs. artifact decks, I actually like it more vs. things like tron or Restore balance or some of the other artifact decks since it lets you keep in aether vial with out hurting your plan when you draw both.
Kataki is also pretty good for the mirror match since it makes your opponent tap down for their aether vial which can really mess them up if they weren't ready for it, and it also makes any golem tokens they have cost 1 per turn.
Congrats @Jendo
I'm not sure which decks you're expecting to see in your metagame, but I'd bring other forms of hate before Leyline. Given you're playing E&T, you might consider maindecking Relic of Progenitus. Ghostly Prison helps fight dredge. Dryad Militant is a decent choice against Snapcaster decks. It depends on which deck vulnerabilities you want to be fixed.
RabbitOfInle has it right:
Affinity can be a tough matchup for a lot of reasons, but an Etched Champion wearing a hat or a bunch of armor is really hard for us to interact with.
In the classic version of mono-white D&T, the best option is to start blocking with golem tokens. But E&T has access to many more colorless creatures, which gives that version of the deck more resilience to Affinity.
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The Reserved List
Heat Maps