In the W/U version, what do you guys think of using cards like Skaab Ruinator, Illusory Angel as a big dumb beater? I think I would like to occasionally see a 5/6 flyer for 3, and can occasionally be recurred late game. or a 4/4 for flyer for 3 with little downside. thoughts?
Obviously Skaab will be a dead card in your hand if you dont' have a vial, but I always find that with no vial, our guys get knocked around and killed pretty often blocking. And with vial, it can help end games quickly.
As appealing as a 4/4 Illusory Angel sounds (and I've always been a fan of the card's art, so pretty) I see little reason to run it over Serra Avenger. The fact that Avenger is cheaper to cast (keep in mind that Illusory Angel is technically never actually 3 mana too, it's 3 mana plus whatever you paid for your first spell of the turn), easier to cast overall, and quicker to come out of the Vial as well as having vigilance on top of that seems to make up for it being 1/1 weaker, perhaps? The only real benefit I can see in running the Angel is that she passes the bolt test while the Avenger does not.
@Underused Cards: I'm running one Skaab Ruinator atm and it has been really good so far. But I think one is the most you ever want.
I guess you could have a little graveyard package including something like 2 Skaab Ruinator, 3 Snapcaster, 2 Moorland Haunt, 4 Thoughtscour. Did anybody try something like this before?
@SpiderSpace: Interesting propositions. When I go through the decks on mtggoldfish though I only see Jund, Abzan, Knightfall, RG Breach and the mirror which potentially play green / white creatures that come into play after T3 (I sure missed some). I think that's a rather small field alhough intimidate looks strong.
I did not try any of the other ones. There was a small discussion about Liliana some pages back though.
@Underused Cards: I'm running one Skaab Ruinator atm and it has been really good so far. But I think one is the most you ever want.
I guess you could have a little graveyard package including something like 2 Skaab Ruinator, 3 Snapcaster, 2 Moorland Haunt, 4 Thoughtscour. Did anybody try something like this before?
@SpiderSpace: Interesting propositions. When I go through the decks on mtggoldfish though I only see Jund, Abzan, Knightfall, RG Breach and the mirror which potentially play green / white creatures that come into play after T3 (I sure missed some). I think that's a rather small field alhough intimidate looks strong.
I did not try any of the other ones. There was a small discussion about Liliana some pages back though.
I used to run a WU package with jace, vryn's prodigy with skaab ruinator. I went 4-1 a couple of times in leagues with it. I even tried a microsplash with B for lingering souls to chuck to JVP.
There has been a bit of talk of them, but I just thought I'd bring them up for testing purposes. I guess it kind of pushes our deck towards a deadguy ale direction.
EDIT: I've also tried a WU tempo list with vapor snag and snapcaster mage, but it sort of fights itself in its synergies. It ends up running a lower amount of Thalias to try to be able to abuse snappy, but I'm not convinced that's actually worth it. I will however say that it felt pretty good to vial in snap instead of paying for it. Also flickering it is nice.
I don't think that's where you want to be. Your board state implies having Thalia taxing mainly your opponents. Since you already have 8 non creature spell (only 4 targets to snapcaster), your extra non creature spells should be something to improve your board, which I don't think that thought scour could do. And Rest in Peace is everywhere to beat dredge and weaken tarmogoyves (does this word exist? haha). You don't want to be part of the hated gy, I guess
About the Jund/abzan Matchup, a Sb card I like a lot is Big game hunter. It kills most of their stuff, can be discarded to Lili and can be fickered. It's also amazing against Bant Eldrazi, good against infect, suicide zoo, big zoo, Merfolk and Nahiri decks.
Just looking through the past few pages and noticed some people using/recommending Elspeth, Knight-Errant as a potential sideboard card (for the top-deck wars). Any reason people are using her over Gideon, Ally of Zendikar? Just curious because he seems to be a better card overall.
Graveyard discussion: It may be that it opens you up to additional hate while also prevenentig yourself from bringing in said hate against jund etc. - probably not the best way to go. And I think it makes the deck slower and more controlling which is unlikely the direction we should take. You ultimately dismissed it too Spiderspace?
In the UW version; are you guys playing mausoleum wanderer ? How is he for you?
Gideon vs. Elspeth: I use Elspeth because 1. I do not own Gideon and he is really expensive 2. I have always been satisfied with a resolved Elspeth.
Elspeth either makes chump blockers if I'm behind or gets in damage if I'm ahead (Elspeth can't be path to exiled). Gideon does almost the same thing. And I like being able to plus Elspeth and threaten the ultimate (For example if you have to chump a goyf you are actually making progress by plussing Eslpeth). This being sad it may very well be that Gideon is a more powerful card and should be the correct joice as he makes 2/2s instead of 1/1s and finishes a game faster than her.
@Spiderspace: A more Deadguy ale list could be interesting to try. There was a list on the previous page too. Maybe you could stream it? (I like your streams btw - would be nice to have a new one )
Both can create chumpblocker tokens. Which can be handy. Giddy makes 2/2 which are technically better, but a chump block is a chump block most of the time.
Both can become/make-something-else beefy. Which is good to push some damage through and shake up a board stall. Elspeth's pump adds evasion.
Both can ultimate to buff the team. Giddy can sacrifice himself for the permanent team pump as soon as he comes out, which is impressive, but not always enough. Elspeth probably wont ever get to ult.
Gideon's token mode is slightly stronger, and his ultimate mode is quite good (especially considering achieving it is so much more practical) and so Giddy should rightly be considered the better card 9 times out of 10.
However, Elspeth's beefy mode grants evasion, which really helps push damage through. Lategame boardstates are typically going to have a clogged ground game, and Gideon being 5/5 indestructible is strong but not likely to push much damage through if our opponent has enough expendable chumps or big enough Goyfs. Elspeth lets us pull one of our chumps off the ground and threaten a very real very fast clock. Throwing beaters like Brimaz/Smasher/Geist through for some big damage is even more fun- and don't forget about monowhite's bad boy MC DoubleStrike who is absolutely sick with an Elspeth pump.
tl;dr. - Gideon is probably a better card in general, but Elspeth's +3/+3 evasion pump really speeds up the clock when the ground game gets clogged.
Do you think +2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant, -1 Lingering Souls -1 Darkblast could work? Lingering Souls are so good against jund/delver/grixis and Darkblast is there against Dark confidant, Noble Hierarch, Birds, ... but Elspeth is good too. Btw, thoughts on the main board? Ill go to a FNM with this deck for the first time.
@Stabil0 & x1uo3yd thanks both seem to have their strengths and weakness, but it does seem like Elspeth might be better for the cloggy ground matches, which is exactly what we bring our 4 mana walker in for. Jeez Gideon is expensive though.. just waiting for rotation over here.
@Metal_GuN where's your Concealed Courtyards? That painless untapped duel has won me many games against Aggro/Burn; such a great new card for the deck. I run 3 Couryards and 2 Shrines personally. I'm also pretty sold on 4x Thalias in the 75 (I've ran 4 main since forever) just because she's absolutely essential in many matchups, and will usually be removed asap (can always side her out, and in the matchups where game 1 matters most eg. burn, infect. we gonna need that Thalia, and against burn the redundancy is key). Also most lists that include Walkers will usually only have the one copy in the side, so maybe don't dedicate 2 slots to Elspeth.
@Metal_GuN where's your Concealed Courtyards? That painless untapped duel has won me many games against Aggro/Burn; such a great new card for the deck. I run 3 Couryards and 2 Shrines personally. I'm also pretty sold on 4x Thalias in the 75 (I've ran 4 main since forever) just because she's absolutely essential in many matchups, and will usually be removed asap (can always side her out, and in the matchups where game 1 matters most eg. burn, infect. we gonna need that Thalia, and against burn the redundancy is key). Also most lists that include Walkers will usually only have the one copy in the side, so maybe don't dedicate 2 slots to Elspeth.
Concealed courtyard is good, but dont you think that then there are too much tapped lands?
Graveyard discussion: It may be that it opens you up to additional hate while also prevenentig yourself from bringing in said hate against jund etc. - probably not the best way to go. And I think it makes the deck slower and more controlling which is unlikely the direction we should take. You ultimately dismissed it too Spiderspace?
In the UW version; are you guys playing mausoleum wanderer ? How is he for you?
Gideon vs. Elspeth: I use Elspeth because 1. I do not own Gideon and he is really expensive 2. I have always been satisfied with a resolved Elspeth.
Elspeth either makes chump blockers if I'm behind or gets in damage if I'm ahead (Elspeth can't be path to exiled). Gideon does almost the same thing. And I like being able to plus Elspeth and threaten the ultimate (For example if you have to chump a goyf you are actually making progress by plussing Eslpeth). This being sad it may very well be that Gideon is a more powerful card and should be the correct joice as he makes 2/2s instead of 1/1s and finishes a game faster than her.
@Spiderspace: A more Deadguy ale list could be interesting to try. There was a list on the previous page too. Maybe you could stream it? (I like your streams btw - would be nice to have a new one )
It does open you up to additional hate, but we're not a deck that something like rip just ends. However, I'd rather just be able to run rip and not think about the itneraction there. I built the deck just as dredge was becoming a thing and it's gone a bit untouched since simply because I want rip in all my boards. It's not a bad list. I think Charons even put it in the WU mini primer.
I haven't tried mausoleum wanderer that much in WU. It's essentially a slightly better judge's familiar with a more restrictive mana cost. It could be okay. I can try a streamlined WU list with it and other spirits soon on stream if you're interested.
Gideon is probably the better card although they serve a similar purpose. I can understand holding off on getting gideon since his price tag is higher from standard.
I'll try to get in a stream soon. I've been so busy from real life I haven't had time to stream lately. I'm glad you enjoy them :).
Concealed courtyard is good, but dont you think that then there are too much tapped lands?
I definitely don't think that way. To me, the painless mana is absolutely worth the risk of it entering tapped turn 4 or higher.
We might be firing off a GQ early, Temples let us play our bigger spells turn 3 or 2, and we've got our Vials to maintain tempo. Honestly I haven't had a game yet where I've needed an untapped 4th land and Courtyard ruined my day. I'd suggest making room for at least 3; it's one of our best new tools against aggro and burn decks.
(Mausoleum Wanderer) I'm trying them myself atm. Sometimes they are pretty good but they get quickly worse the more the game progresses. I really like having an additional one drop though (The mana has not been a problem for me). But I think it's too close to judges familiar, which just isn't powerful enough either, to deserve a slot. There aren't enough good spirits to make it bigger reliably and continuously IMO. I think I will put them aside for now.
I would prefer seing a bw dark confidant list in action. (or the following thing)
GW EnT feat. Stirrings
Another idea I want to discuss with you guys is GW eldrazi and taxes with ancient stirrings. It's basically bant eldrazi without blue but instead plays the best DnT cards. Bant Eldrazi just splashes blue for Drowner, Skyspawner and a sideboard counterspell. IMO Skyspawner is not actually a good card and only makes the cut because it can be found with ancient stirrings and is easier to cast with Eldrazi Temple. Drowner is not bad but expensive and not needed in the current meta which is pretty fast. The synergy with eldrazi displacer is good but not much better than eldrazi displacer with flickerwisp.
What I want to say with this is that the actual powerful cards are TKS, Displacer, Smasher and most importantly ancient stirrings. Noble Hierarch is an important piece of the puzzle too and allows for a more consistent t2 TKS.
Ancient Stirrings finds: Displacer, TKS, Smasher, Spellskite, Revoker, Ghost quarter, Gavony Township, and potential sideboard cards. This card is the best card selection in modern and helps greatly with consisteny. And it finds the silver bullet taxers. The obvious downside is the dis-synergy with Thalia. But then again you have more mana at your disposal because of Hierach. Less mana flooding, less mana screws and more often the right taxer.
What do you all think of this? Opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Edit: @jendo87. Yeah hitting for 5 sounds nice. I would rather not go three colors though. What do you think of Wanderer in general? I like your stream too! If you allow some criticism I would prefer it without music and mtgo sound effects as it can be quite hard to understand what you are saying (acoustically).
Concealed courtyard is good, but dont you think that then there are too much tapped lands?
I definitely don't think that way. To me, the painless mana is absolutely worth the risk of it entering tapped turn 4 or higher.
We might be firing off a GQ early, Temples let us play our bigger spells turn 3 or 2, and we've got our Vials to maintain tempo. Honestly I haven't had a game yet where I've needed an untapped 4th land and Courtyard ruined my day. I'd suggest making room for at least 3; it's one of our best new tools against aggro and burn decks.
You are probably right. And since I dont have any Godless Shrine and I have 3 Concealed Courtyard, I save the money.
Looking at my manabase, I probably dont need 3 Shambling Vent. Maybe 2 is fine?
My deck and manabase:
Also, thoughts on the SB?
I will greatly thank any help, since Im currently buying the cards (the 4 Aether Vial arrived today :)!) and I would like to save money.
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UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
Obviously Skaab will be a dead card in your hand if you dont' have a vial, but I always find that with no vial, our guys get knocked around and killed pretty often blocking. And with vial, it can help end games quickly.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
WB Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim | WBR Queen Marchesa | WUBR Breya, Etherium Shaper
Modern:
/ Death and Taxes | W/ Soul Sisters | Spirits | U Faeries | Tempered Steel Affinity
It along with other BB 3 CMC cards like fulminator mage and Liliana, Heretical Healer (among others) have seen little discussion after our mana base improved.
Thoughts?
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I guess you could have a little graveyard package including something like 2 Skaab Ruinator, 3 Snapcaster, 2 Moorland Haunt, 4 Thoughtscour. Did anybody try something like this before?
@SpiderSpace: Interesting propositions. When I go through the decks on mtggoldfish though I only see Jund, Abzan, Knightfall, RG Breach and the mirror which potentially play green / white creatures that come into play after T3 (I sure missed some). I think that's a rather small field alhough intimidate looks strong.
I did not try any of the other ones. There was a small discussion about Liliana some pages back though.
I used to run a WU package with jace, vryn's prodigy with skaab ruinator. I went 4-1 a couple of times in leagues with it. I even tried a microsplash with B for lingering souls to chuck to JVP.
There has been a bit of talk of them, but I just thought I'd bring them up for testing purposes. I guess it kind of pushes our deck towards a deadguy ale direction.
EDIT: I've also tried a WU tempo list with vapor snag and snapcaster mage, but it sort of fights itself in its synergies. It ends up running a lower amount of Thalias to try to be able to abuse snappy, but I'm not convinced that's actually worth it. I will however say that it felt pretty good to vial in snap instead of paying for it. Also flickering it is nice.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
In the UW version; are you guys playing mausoleum wanderer ? How is he for you?
Gideon vs. Elspeth: I use Elspeth because 1. I do not own Gideon and he is really expensive 2. I have always been satisfied with a resolved Elspeth.
Elspeth either makes chump blockers if I'm behind or gets in damage if I'm ahead (Elspeth can't be path to exiled). Gideon does almost the same thing. And I like being able to plus Elspeth and threaten the ultimate (For example if you have to chump a goyf you are actually making progress by plussing Eslpeth). This being sad it may very well be that Gideon is a more powerful card and should be the correct joice as he makes 2/2s instead of 1/1s and finishes a game faster than her.
@Spiderspace: A more Deadguy ale list could be interesting to try. There was a list on the previous page too. Maybe you could stream it? (I like your streams btw - would be nice to have a new one )
However, Elspeth's beefy mode grants evasion, which really helps push damage through. Lategame boardstates are typically going to have a clogged ground game, and Gideon being 5/5 indestructible is strong but not likely to push much damage through if our opponent has enough expendable chumps or big enough Goyfs. Elspeth lets us pull one of our chumps off the ground and threaten a very real very fast clock. Throwing beaters like Brimaz/Smasher/Geist through for some big damage is even more fun- and don't forget about monowhite's bad boy MC DoubleStrike who is absolutely sick with an Elspeth pump.
tl;dr. - Gideon is probably a better card in general, but Elspeth's +3/+3 evasion pump really speeds up the clock when the ground game gets clogged.
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Godless Shrine
3 Shambling Vent
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
3 Plains
1 Swamp
Utility
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Wall of Resurgence
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Restoration Angel
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Big Game Hunter
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Darkblast
3 Lingering Souls
Do you think +2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant, -1 Lingering Souls -1 Darkblast could work? Lingering Souls are so good against jund/delver/grixis and Darkblast is there against Dark confidant, Noble Hierarch, Birds, ... but Elspeth is good too. Btw, thoughts on the main board? Ill go to a FNM with this deck for the first time.
@Metal_GuN where's your Concealed Courtyards? That painless untapped duel has won me many games against Aggro/Burn; such a great new card for the deck. I run 3 Couryards and 2 Shrines personally. I'm also pretty sold on 4x Thalias in the 75 (I've ran 4 main since forever) just because she's absolutely essential in many matchups, and will usually be removed asap (can always side her out, and in the matchups where game 1 matters most eg. burn, infect. we gonna need that Thalia, and against burn the redundancy is key). Also most lists that include Walkers will usually only have the one copy in the side, so maybe don't dedicate 2 slots to Elspeth.
Concealed courtyard is good, but dont you think that then there are too much tapped lands?
It does open you up to additional hate, but we're not a deck that something like rip just ends. However, I'd rather just be able to run rip and not think about the itneraction there. I built the deck just as dredge was becoming a thing and it's gone a bit untouched since simply because I want rip in all my boards. It's not a bad list. I think Charons even put it in the WU mini primer.
I haven't tried mausoleum wanderer that much in WU. It's essentially a slightly better judge's familiar with a more restrictive mana cost. It could be okay. I can try a streamlined WU list with it and other spirits soon on stream if you're interested.
Gideon is probably the better card although they serve a similar purpose. I can understand holding off on getting gideon since his price tag is higher from standard.
I'll try to get in a stream soon. I've been so busy from real life I haven't had time to stream lately. I'm glad you enjoy them :).
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
2 sea gate wreckage
2 horizon canopy
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Eiganjo Castle
9 Plains
8 non creature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Selfless Spirit
2 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 blade splicer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
3 Restoration Angel
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sundering Growth
2 Plains
1 Forest
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Ghost Quarter
2 stirring wildwood
2 Gavony Township
1 tectonic edge
1 gemstone caverns
10 noncreature spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
2 Collected Company
28 creatures
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Spellskite
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Flickerwisp
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Worship
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
1 Shambling Vent
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Plains
1 Gemstone Caverns
8 Noncreature Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
2 Spellskite
2 Selfless Spirit
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Rest in Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Sin Collector
2 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Worship
3 Brushland
3 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Gemstone Caverns
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
10 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
1 Eternal Witness
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Worship
1 Spellskite
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Eiganjo Castle
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mutavault
1 Island
2 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 adarkar wastes
1 flooded strand
9 noncreature spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
1 detention sphere
28 creatures
3 Spell Queller
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 eldrazi displacer
3 Reflector Mage
4 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 leonin arbiter
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 spellskite
2 Rest in Peace
2 stony silence
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 ghostly prison
2 burrenton forge-tender
2 Surgical Extraction
1 kira, great glass-spinner
1 blessed alliance
I definitely don't think that way. To me, the painless mana is absolutely worth the risk of it entering tapped turn 4 or higher.
We might be firing off a GQ early, Temples let us play our bigger spells turn 3 or 2, and we've got our Vials to maintain tempo. Honestly I haven't had a game yet where I've needed an untapped 4th land and Courtyard ruined my day. I'd suggest making room for at least 3; it's one of our best new tools against aggro and burn decks.
I would prefer seing a bw dark confidant list in action. (or the following thing)
GW EnT feat. Stirrings
Another idea I want to discuss with you guys is GW eldrazi and taxes with ancient stirrings. It's basically bant eldrazi without blue but instead plays the best DnT cards. Bant Eldrazi just splashes blue for Drowner, Skyspawner and a sideboard counterspell. IMO Skyspawner is not actually a good card and only makes the cut because it can be found with ancient stirrings and is easier to cast with Eldrazi Temple. Drowner is not bad but expensive and not needed in the current meta which is pretty fast. The synergy with eldrazi displacer is good but not much better than eldrazi displacer with flickerwisp.
What I want to say with this is that the actual powerful cards are TKS, Displacer, Smasher and most importantly ancient stirrings. Noble Hierarch is an important piece of the puzzle too and allows for a more consistent t2 TKS.
Ancient Stirrings finds: Displacer, TKS, Smasher, Spellskite, Revoker, Ghost quarter, Gavony Township, and potential sideboard cards. This card is the best card selection in modern and helps greatly with consisteny. And it finds the silver bullet taxers. The obvious downside is the dis-synergy with Thalia. But then again you have more mana at your disposal because of Hierach. Less mana flooding, less mana screws and more often the right taxer.
I'm thinking of something like this:
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Path to exile
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Spellskite
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thought-knot seer
2 Reality Smasher
2 Gavony Township
4 Brushland
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Plains
1 Forest
What do you all think of this? Opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Edit: @jendo87. Yeah hitting for 5 sounds nice. I would rather not go three colors though. What do you think of Wanderer in general? I like your stream too! If you allow some criticism I would prefer it without music and mtgo sound effects as it can be quite hard to understand what you are saying (acoustically).
You are probably right. And since I dont have any Godless Shrine and I have 3 Concealed Courtyard, I save the money.
Looking at my manabase, I probably dont need 3 Shambling Vent. Maybe 2 is fine?
My deck and manabase:
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Godless Shrine
3 Shambling Vent
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
3 Plains
1 Swamp
Utility
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to exile
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Wall of Resurgence
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Restoration Angel
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Big Game Hunter
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Darkblast
3 Lingering Souls
Also, thoughts on the SB?
I will greatly thank any help, since Im currently buying the cards (the 4 Aether Vial arrived today :)!) and I would like to save money.