I see. It just seemed like a win-win overall, since both effects, while the opponent gets to choose, are beneficial to me and detrimental to them-- kind of like Kambal, Consul of Allocation-- except there's no choice there, it's just purely beneficial to us. I kind of figured that playing both Atheros and Kambal fit the theme of taxes-- only instead of having to pay mana, they have to pay life or face other consequences.
Kambal offers no choice. Your opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life each time a spell is casted. If they choose not to play a non creature spell he has done his job, which is to punish cheap spells in order to slow down your opponent. If they continue to play cheap spells then he has done his job by punishing your opponent. There is no choice for your opponent.
Atheros is not a win/win because each effect is distinct. Against linear aggro, combo and burn your opponent is going to take the three to the face and try to race under you in order to keep your board clear. Most DnT decks are not fast enough to take advantage of the life loss against aggro. Midrange decks are going to take the damage if it is a creature that disrupts their game plan or give it back to you if it's not a threat. Our creatures can get outclassed quickly in these types of matchups. Here the damage to the face is nice and the extra bodies allow us to go wide or stave off ground pounders, but we are still at the mercy of our opponent's decision. Atheros is fine in the board for match ups like these, such as Jund, but typically there are much better, broader sideboard options and Atheros wants you to tweak your deck just a little bit to really punish your opponent.
In the old thread there were a few old timers that ran Atheros. They all had different opinions about his effectiveness, but many found W/b DnT did not take full advantages of the angles of attacks he opened up. However, the new enemy fastland may allow a more aggressive approach to the deck. You could certainly try a lower curve W/b DnT that uses Selfless Spirits, Dark Confidants, Thalias and Wisp backed by discard spells.
wont work, its not a creature till you crew it so cant be revived. Kinda like the gods aren't creatures till you meet the devotion costs
I think you missed the train... of thought (sorry for the dumb vehicle pun). The point is that it's a bear-recycling engine; copter-recycling or looping is not the idea. In a green list the copter could be replaced by Cryptolith Rite instead.
SpiderSpace mentioned it a page back (1/2 jokingly I presume). I don't think anyone has actually sleeved up any Kithkin clerics, though, as it's a little too cute.
And if I'm saying that, you know it's too-ooooooo cute.
wont work, its not a creature till you crew it so cant be revived. Kinda like the gods aren't creatures till you meet the devotion costs
But the point is, you can Crew the Copter, attack for three in the air, draw a card and discard a bear, and then bring the bear back with Order of Whiteclay, potentially benefiting from ETB effects.
Understood on Athreos. Will not waste money on him.
Reporting results from last night!
Decklist is the same as last time, only dropped 1 Eldrazi Displacer for Ephara, God of the Polis. Spoilers: She wasn't worth it.
4 rounds, 3 wins, 1 loss.
Match 1: vs. Gruul Zoo, win 2-1
Same guy from last week. He outpaced me once when I had a really bad draw. Not much else to it.
Match 2: vs. some weird mono-green Infect brew with artifact creatures, win 2-0
Pretty easy.
Match 3: vs. actual UG Infect, loss 1-2
He was REALLY salty when I beat him in round 1, because I had the nut draw and basically did not allow him to do anything. Games 2 and 3, I had to mulligan and still got nothing good. Feels like a very luck-based matchup. If they get Vines of Vastwood, you're screwed.
Match 4: vs. Naya Zoo Company, win 2-1
Fun matchup. The guy's deck was aggro for sure, so it wasn't too hard to stop him, but he had enough removal to keep me on my toes too.
Final ranking: 2nd place. Pulled an Emrakul from my prize packs. Feels good.
Notes:
Ephara was always sideboard fodder. Never made it out of my hand.
Double Thalia is pretty bomb. Kind of want to run more Heretic Cathars?
I didn't have any control matchups, which is probably why I did so well. I'm going BW next week, so we'll see how that goes.
Playing Reflector Mage and Spell Queller in your deck is not a good way to make friends.
Flickerwisping the Reflector Mage is a good way to make enemies.
I'm intrigued by Smuggler's Copter. I got to see it in action last night at prerelease and it did work. It also gives Leonin Arbiter and Thalia an evasive attack outlet that gives card draw. But what would you drop for it...? And the same goes to Order of Whiteclay. It's intriguing, but ultimately while it lets you recycle things, it's just as much as removal magnet as anything else-- and it doesn't really do much worthwhile outside of reviving things. We already have ways to save our creatures from being killed via Flickerwisp and Selfless Spirit-- we don't really need this, honestly. And again, what would you drop for it?
Guys, I keep testing 2x Swords in main, and want to say that its absolutely incredible. UR and BW can deal almost every problem we may have. Seriously, try it. I'll be glad to see any expirience you have with swords.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DnT! And I'll win the fight
DnT! I'm a power-load
DnT! Watch me Explode
As we get closer to the online release for KLD, I am looking for a list of cards that would be beneficial to test for the Twitch stream. Even if it is not very "good", I find most people want to check out the cards they were most anticipating casting.
I can lock up a cart for a preorder and the quicker I can generate the list, the more testing we can do with the new cards! If you are a member of my Twitch stream or just want to contribute a list of cards send me a private message with cards or deck lists you are wanting to get more familiar with.
Depends on how many non white cards you are trying to play. If you want to cast a tidehollow sculler on turn two you need something like 13 sources which means playing 4 fast lands + 4 shock lands + 4 pain lands + one other.
My immediate thought is just replace the Shambling Vent, Swamp, and maybe either the Sea Gate Wreckage or just a Godless Shrine. However, having access to either another basic or a utility land if pretty important. Thinking about it now, replacing the Fetid Heath would be the best choice. Is the courtyard enough to fix the bad mana or will that always be associated with this deck? I also like that is lets me run something like Thoughtseize in the sideboard.
(Besides that, any opinions on my other cards choices is appreciated.)
Any impute is appreciated. Thanks in advance
I don't have a lot of experience in modern yet, so take my impressions of the new set with a grain of salt. That said, I'm thinking about replacing all Godless Shrine with Concealed Courtyard in the Eldrazi & Taxes version because:
A) We're not running fetchlands.
B) We're using some of our lands as spells (Ghost Quarter), which keeps our land count low.
C) The curve stops at 4/5, with most under 3.
D) It might help against burn and other aggro strategies.
I think we need the additional untapped black/white mana sources to consistently cast our Tidehollow Sculler on T2 and generally have access to both colors early on.
I will probably make the same changes as u suggested already, cutting the Shambling Vent and Fetid Heath seems like the best option to me. I would probably even cut another land for a 4th Concealed Courtyard maybe Sea Gate Wreckage or even the basic swamp.
I guess we will always have some issues with mana in the eldrazi version but Concealed Courtyard certainly helps abit - even more so in the eldraziless black/white lists ofc.
Hey guys. Here's a generic manabase you can use for eldrazi n taxes. It's not going to be specific to your list but rather a place to start from and modify as you see fit.
Also, casting sculler on the curve will not be a given with this but it should do fine with less demanding lists.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Your success in playing dnt/hatebears is determined largely by your ability to read and prepare for the meta that you will be playing in. Furthermore, it has an absolutely brutal learning curve. Expect to lose; a lot.
In my opinion its not worth to keep the Shambling Vent in the deck. It always felt awkward to have it in your opening hand and even in the late game it was kinda meh. I'd probably just go for untapped mana sources.
Anyway I haven't done any testing regarding the new manabase with the fastlands yet, time will tell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Kambal offers no choice. Your opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life each time a spell is casted. If they choose not to play a non creature spell he has done his job, which is to punish cheap spells in order to slow down your opponent. If they continue to play cheap spells then he has done his job by punishing your opponent. There is no choice for your opponent.
Atheros is not a win/win because each effect is distinct. Against linear aggro, combo and burn your opponent is going to take the three to the face and try to race under you in order to keep your board clear. Most DnT decks are not fast enough to take advantage of the life loss against aggro. Midrange decks are going to take the damage if it is a creature that disrupts their game plan or give it back to you if it's not a threat. Our creatures can get outclassed quickly in these types of matchups. Here the damage to the face is nice and the extra bodies allow us to go wide or stave off ground pounders, but we are still at the mercy of our opponent's decision. Atheros is fine in the board for match ups like these, such as Jund, but typically there are much better, broader sideboard options and Atheros wants you to tweak your deck just a little bit to really punish your opponent.
In the old thread there were a few old timers that ran Atheros. They all had different opinions about his effectiveness, but many found W/b DnT did not take full advantages of the angles of attacks he opened up. However, the new enemy fastland may allow a more aggressive approach to the deck. You could certainly try a lower curve W/b DnT that uses Selfless Spirits, Dark Confidants, Thalias and Wisp backed by discard spells.
SpiderSpace mentioned it a page back (1/2 jokingly I presume). I don't think anyone has actually sleeved up any Kithkin clerics, though, as it's a little too cute.
And if I'm saying that, you know it's too-ooooooo cute.
But the point is, you can Crew the Copter, attack for three in the air, draw a card and discard a bear, and then bring the bear back with Order of Whiteclay, potentially benefiting from ETB effects.
Reporting results from last night!
Decklist is the same as last time, only dropped 1 Eldrazi Displacer for Ephara, God of the Polis. Spoilers: She wasn't worth it.
4 rounds, 3 wins, 1 loss.
Match 1: vs. Gruul Zoo, win 2-1
Same guy from last week. He outpaced me once when I had a really bad draw. Not much else to it.
Match 2: vs. some weird mono-green Infect brew with artifact creatures, win 2-0
Pretty easy.
Match 3: vs. actual UG Infect, loss 1-2
He was REALLY salty when I beat him in round 1, because I had the nut draw and basically did not allow him to do anything. Games 2 and 3, I had to mulligan and still got nothing good. Feels like a very luck-based matchup. If they get Vines of Vastwood, you're screwed.
Match 4: vs. Naya Zoo Company, win 2-1
Fun matchup. The guy's deck was aggro for sure, so it wasn't too hard to stop him, but he had enough removal to keep me on my toes too.
Final ranking: 2nd place. Pulled an Emrakul from my prize packs. Feels good.
Notes:
Ephara was always sideboard fodder. Never made it out of my hand.
Double Thalia is pretty bomb. Kind of want to run more Heretic Cathars?
I didn't have any control matchups, which is probably why I did so well. I'm going BW next week, so we'll see how that goes.
Playing Reflector Mage and Spell Queller in your deck is not a good way to make friends.
Flickerwisping the Reflector Mage is a good way to make enemies.
I'm intrigued by Smuggler's Copter. I got to see it in action last night at prerelease and it did work. It also gives Leonin Arbiter and Thalia an evasive attack outlet that gives card draw. But what would you drop for it...? And the same goes to Order of Whiteclay. It's intriguing, but ultimately while it lets you recycle things, it's just as much as removal magnet as anything else-- and it doesn't really do much worthwhile outside of reviving things. We already have ways to save our creatures from being killed via Flickerwisp and Selfless Spirit-- we don't really need this, honestly. And again, what would you drop for it?
WB Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim | WBR Queen Marchesa | WUBR Breya, Etherium Shaper
Modern:
/ Death and Taxes | W/ Soul Sisters | Spirits | U Faeries | Tempered Steel Affinity
WB Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim | WBR Queen Marchesa | WUBR Breya, Etherium Shaper
Modern:
/ Death and Taxes | W/ Soul Sisters | Spirits | U Faeries | Tempered Steel Affinity
DnT! I'm a power-load
DnT! Watch me Explode
What is your current list?
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
As we get closer to the online release for KLD, I am looking for a list of cards that would be beneficial to test for the Twitch stream. Even if it is not very "good", I find most people want to check out the cards they were most anticipating casting.
I can lock up a cart for a preorder and the quicker I can generate the list, the more testing we can do with the new cards! If you are a member of my Twitch stream or just want to contribute a list of cards send me a private message with cards or deck lists you are wanting to get more familiar with.
-Catmix
WWModern Death And Taxes (w/ Militia Bugler) (JUL '19)
GWModern Maverick (JUL '19)
WBCatmix on Twitch!
WWCatmix on Youtube
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/473329#paper
DnT! I'm a power-load
DnT! Watch me Explode
My list for reference:
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Godless Shrine
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Fetid Heath
2 Shambling Vent
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Blade Splicer
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Path to Exile
4 Æther Vial
My immediate thought is just replace the Shambling Vent, Swamp, and maybe either the Sea Gate Wreckage or just a Godless Shrine. However, having access to either another basic or a utility land if pretty important. Thinking about it now, replacing the Fetid Heath would be the best choice. Is the courtyard enough to fix the bad mana or will that always be associated with this deck? I also like that is lets me run something like Thoughtseize in the sideboard.
(Besides that, any opinions on my other cards choices is appreciated.)
Any impute is appreciated. Thanks in advance
A) We're not running fetchlands.
B) We're using some of our lands as spells (Ghost Quarter), which keeps our land count low.
C) The curve stops at 4/5, with most under 3.
D) It might help against burn and other aggro strategies.
I'm also thinking of replacing the Blade Splicer with Kambal, Consul of Allocation, which seems really strong together with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
RBW Mardu Pyromancer BWR
RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
Legacy
W Death & Taxes W
I think we need the additional untapped black/white mana sources to consistently cast our Tidehollow Sculler on T2 and generally have access to both colors early on.
I will probably make the same changes as u suggested already, cutting the Shambling Vent and Fetid Heath seems like the best option to me. I would probably even cut another land for a 4th Concealed Courtyard maybe Sea Gate Wreckage or even the basic swamp.
I guess we will always have some issues with mana in the eldrazi version but Concealed Courtyard certainly helps abit - even more so in the eldraziless black/white lists ofc.
Also, casting sculler on the curve will not be a given with this but it should do fine with less demanding lists.
Anyway I haven't done any testing regarding the new manabase with the fastlands yet, time will tell.