I can't see how this guy is worth an auto 4-of. Goblin Bushwhacker is infinitely times better. Also, I have to say no to the [card]Gitaxian Probe[card] listed above me. It's not what we want to do.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
I have been slowly acquiring cards for this deck, and reading the primer casually. In the past few days have seen so much excitement and discussion on this thread, today I pulled the trigger and just bought the pieces I was missing from TCGP, so when I open some packs of SOI I will be ready to join in the testing and discussions here.
I can't see how this guy is worth an auto 4-of. Goblin Bushwhacker is infinitely times better. Also, I have to say no to the [card]Gitaxian Probe[card] listed above me. It's not what we want to do.
Are you joking?
@Killer Manfred: I already cut Anglers for Sinister Concoction (more discard outlets!) and am not looking back yet.
Insolent Neonate seems to be the best of this spoiler season. This will give the deck so much more consistency and it is a 1-drop. It is a complete synergy hit with the rest of the deck: very good with Dredge (discard first, and then dredge), good with Vengevine (discard it and Vengevine loves 1-drops) and generally is very good in balancing your hand. This guy has menace and is a great recipient of a bunch of +1/+1 counters for Varolz.
I am still very disappointed by MTGO, where Varolz, the Scar-StripedIS STILL BUGGED . Next MTGO build will be in several weeks and even then I can't be sure it gets fixed. My deck is basically banned on MTGO
Super frustrating.
Hi guys back again after playing a modern night with dredgevine.
A few things i have notice is the fact that there are no zombie that we have that we can dredge out and put onto the battlefield to get our gravecrawlers out from the gy.
We have to relly on top decking or having a zombie in our hand to enable our gravecrawlers. I was thinking of running a one off Golgari Thug top solve this. Thoughts?
Hey, guys!
Do you think Prized Amalgam is good enough? I'm not sure if it is worth, it enters at next eot tapped... Is like huh, isn't it? Wouldn't you run some removal instead? Or Grisly Salvage? Or Reckless Bushwhacker?
SB is still rough. Leyline is a blowout. Nature's Claim is probably our best tool against it, Vintage-style.
Vengevine is sometimes the worst card in the deck and sometimes it's ridiculous. Salvage is an important piece of the puzzle; I've tested everywhere between 4 and 2 of them and settled on 2.
The 4th Imp is a flex slot, but I'm not sure what's better than it for now.
Well, I don't see a reason not to try Neonate since he is a common that will likely be all over the place after release. It is a fast way to get dredging, I'll admit.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't want to sound rude, but this is a forum with an immense pool of documented data on most everything you need to know. So PLEASE read through the latest posts before you post anything yourself. With the new set coming out and many new contributors to this site we have to be careful not to spam because that means no one's going to read anything of it anymore. So PLEASE check whether your questions has already been answered or at least discussed to some extent. Thank you
Thank you for pointing that out! Manfred, not sure if I missed it, but did you post the list you're testing with the updated additions?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
So, in dredge do we use stinkweed imp as flying chump removal? Grave troll seems strait forward, but the imp is interesting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Maybe I'm just being a wet blanket, but I'm really not too hyped about too many of these. I can buy Prized Amalgam being powerful, but I'm not if cutting Anglers is the best choice. They pulled a lot of weight, acting as both Gravecrawler 5-8 (1-drop zombie) and VV 5-8 (only creatures with power > 4). Angler did some heavy lifting getting through cards like Tarmogoyf, Siege Rhino, Reality Smashers, Tasigur, etc as well as letting us use our graveyard before a RIP or Scavenging Ooze hit the battlefield. I can't the number of games I won by going T3 Lotleth Troll or Satyr Wayfinder into Angler, triggering 1-2 VV in the yard. It also doesn't get hit by Bolt or Decay, which basically every card in the deck is still vulnerable to. Against the faster decks like infect, boggles, burn, zoo, a T2/3 5/5 was often just big enough to slow them down until we could get our engine online. I'm not saying we don't include Prized Amalgam, but I'm thinking at least 2-3 slots have to be given to Angler if you want to have the Gravecrawler, VV engine work. The fact that Prized Amalgam doesn't trigger VV is a liability and one of the reasons Bloodghast tended to be less than stellar.
Maybe I'm just being a wet blanket, but I'm really not too hyped about too many of these. I can buy Prized Amalgam being powerful, but I'm not if cutting Anglers is the best choice. They pulled a lot of weight, acting as both Gravecrawler 5-8 (1-drop zombie) and VV 5-8 (only creatures with power > 4). Angler did some heavy lifting getting through cards like Tarmogoyf, Siege Rhino, Reality Smashers, Tasigur, etc as well as letting us use our graveyard before a RIP or Scavenging Ooze hit the battlefield. I can't the number of games I won by going T3 Lotleth Troll or Satyr Wayfinder into Angler, triggering 1-2 VV in the yard. It also doesn't get hit by Bolt or Decay, which basically every card in the deck is still vulnerable to. Against the faster decks like infect, boggles, burn, zoo, a T2/3 5/5 was often just big enough to slow them down until we could get our engine online. I'm not saying we don't include Prized Amalgam, but I'm thinking at least 2-3 slots have to be given to Angler if you want to have the Gravecrawler, VV engine work. The fact that Prized Amalgam doesn't trigger VV is a liability and one of the reasons Bloodghast tended to be less than stellar.
So would you say Tasigur or Angler is the better delve critter to throw in? I got tasigur sitting around collecting dust, but given how cheap anglers are right now there's no reason not to pick a few up.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I agree angler is good, but with neonate or whatever you call him I think I would rather have 4 amalgams than anglers, and belive me, I love me some anglers. I think the little red guy allows us to go full frontal dredge, which is what I like playing. I think if I were to play neonate I would cut some anglers, murderous cuts, and grisly salvages. These cards are dead in the yard and outdone by Loam, amalgam, and dark blast which are all easily brought back from the yard and allows us to go full dredge. Also would tenatively cut my little phoenixs.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
Maybe I'm just being a wet blanket, but I'm really not too hyped about too many of these. I can buy Prized Amalgam being powerful, but I'm not if cutting Anglers is the best choice. They pulled a lot of weight, acting as both Gravecrawler 5-8 (1-drop zombie) and VV 5-8 (only creatures with power > 4). Angler did some heavy lifting getting through cards like Tarmogoyf, Siege Rhino, Reality Smashers, Tasigur, etc as well as letting us use our graveyard before a RIP or Scavenging Ooze hit the battlefield. I can't the number of games I won by going T3 Lotleth Troll or Satyr Wayfinder into Angler, triggering 1-2 VV in the yard. It also doesn't get hit by Bolt or Decay, which basically every card in the deck is still vulnerable to. Against the faster decks like infect, boggles, burn, zoo, a T2/3 5/5 was often just big enough to slow them down until we could get our engine online. I'm not saying we don't include Prized Amalgam, but I'm thinking at least 2-3 slots have to be given to Angler if you want to have the Gravecrawler, VV engine work. The fact that Prized Amalgam doesn't trigger VV is a liability and one of the reasons Bloodghast tended to be less than stellar.
So would you say Tasigur or Angler is the better delve critter to throw in? I got tasigur sitting around collecting dust, but given how cheap anglers are right now there's no reason not to pick a few up.
It has been the consensus that Angler is better in this deck for a while. 1) It's a zombie to help trigger gravecrawlers 2) In many cases, especially after T2, the extra delve cost is fairly negligible 3) As I mentioned above, the extra point of power above VV is pretty big 4) Tasigurs ability will often do more harm than good, since your opp can put the cards you want in your GY into your hand and vise versa
To second what was said on the previous page, I would highly suggest people read through this thread, as well as the previous Dredgevine thread, at some point. Many many hours of play testing and discussion have been done and that was how I first learned many of the specific ins and outs of the decks.
Regarding whether to use Stinkweed Imp vs Golgari Gravetroll, it is meta and deck-specific and often a split is optimal. Want a big late-game resilient threat in grindy matchups? Want to Dredge as much a possible, with little caring about casting the card? GGT is your man. Want some defense against flyers or single-threat decks? Worried about having too few creatures to trigger VV, especially post board? Stinkweed is good there. I currently go with 3 GGT and 1 Imp, since I never want more than 1 Imp per game, but the 6 dredge makes the deck more consistent.
To bad Dread Return is banned... The deck basically builds itself lol.
I think this is still doable, but maybe you're right that Dread Return - Cabal Therapy - Bridge from Below are necessary pieces. I'm brewing up something in the Deck Creation forum. Oh Dredge. Wai you so broken?
You know, even though people say Dread Return should stay banned, I can't help but feel there are enough counters in modern to prevent it from being abused. People would just start sideboarding Graf Diggers Cage and Relic of Progenitus more often.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As the mod of this thread, I will politely ask the new and incoming players to refer to both the guide I created on the front page of this thread which can be found here: Guide or visit the old thread, which can be found here: Old Dredgevine thread. Players like ZxxZ, Pizzap, Manfred, myself and other older players have cranked through days of testing and results on different cards and combinations! New questions and meta specific topics are welcome, but dont forget to just try stuff. Most of our flex cards are super cheap and easy to interchange. We all have different preferences because we like certain things in our lists over other choices (i.e, Stinkweed Imp vs Golgari Grave-Troll or the correct number of Satyr Wayfinder).
On another note, I play tested at my LGS tonight with some proxy cards and Prized Amalgam is absolutely bonkers. I went 6-1 in random matches tonight, only losing to Jund due to a misplay and a hand that should have been mulliganed. For future testing I will be increasing my Amalgam count to 3 and decreasing the Angler count to 3. I can post my list if anyone wishes, but most of my matches weren't even close. Thanks for the earlier info Manfred. It helped tweak my list for tonight!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Last night I had 2 Ghast, 1 Neonate, 1 Vine, and 3 Amalgam on the board on turn 2.
That's why Amalgam is good.
In fact I am thinking of cutting Vine altogether and playing Ghoulsteed. It takes way less set up even though it's a weaker card. Then we could cut green altogether and play Hedron Crab.
EDIT:
This is where am at after even more testing. Anyone got any feedback?
Scavenging Ooze is also a pain. I'd like to fit in 1 more Concoction to deal with it, but Darkblast has been so good against Elves, Chord and other sort of rough MUs that I want to have 3. Maybe there's room for one Concoction in the maindeck, if I cut Dregscape Zombie or Dakmor Salvage.
The reason for the 2/1 Loam/Salvage split is that occasionally you don't want to wait a turn to activate Ghast. In those cases, Salvage is better. But generally Loam is superior.
Hard MUs so far: Infect, anything playing Scavenging Ooze. Infect is easier with Darkblast, I'd think, and I think one more Concoction can help too. Scooze can be handled with Concoction and Thoughtseize.
As the mod of this thread, I will politely ask the new and incoming players to refer to both the guide I created on the front page of this thread which can be found here: Guide or visit the old thread, which can be found here: Old Dredgevine thread. Players like ZxxZ, Pizzap, Manfred, myself and other older players have cranked through days of testing and results on different cards and combinations! New questions and meta specific topics are welcome, but dont forget to just try stuff. Most of our flex cards are super cheap and easy to interchange. We all have different preferences because we like certain things in our lists over other choices (i.e, Stinkweed Imp vs Golgari Grave-Troll or the correct number of Satyr Wayfinder).
On another note, I play tested at my LGS tonight with some proxy cards and Prized Amalgam is absolutely bonkers. I went 6-1 in random matches tonight, only losing to Jund due to a misplay and a hand that should have been mulliganed. For future testing I will be increasing my Amalgam count to 3 and decreasing the Angler count to 3. I can post my list if anyone wishes, but most of my matches weren't even close. Thanks for the earlier info Manfred. It helped tweak my list for tonight!
Yes please post your list, these new Innistrad spoilers make me want to get into this deck.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Are you joking?
@Killer Manfred: I already cut Anglers for Sinister Concoction (more discard outlets!) and am not looking back yet.
OK... I don't think I can justify playing U instead of R anymore.
Wow thanks fo those to cheap and effect cards that i can use to get my gravecrawlers out.
It is FREE! I like free things.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Vengevine
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Faithless Looting
2 Rotting Rats
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Dakmor Salvage
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Swamp
1 Stomping Ground
1 Watery Grave
1 Polluted Delta
4 Nature's Claim
2 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
3 Darkblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Gnaw to the Bone
SB is still rough. Leyline is a blowout. Nature's Claim is probably our best tool against it, Vintage-style.
Vengevine is sometimes the worst card in the deck and sometimes it's ridiculous. Salvage is an important piece of the puzzle; I've tested everywhere between 4 and 2 of them and settled on 2.
The 4th Imp is a flex slot, but I'm not sure what's better than it for now.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So would you say Tasigur or Angler is the better delve critter to throw in? I got tasigur sitting around collecting dust, but given how cheap anglers are right now there's no reason not to pick a few up.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
It has been the consensus that Angler is better in this deck for a while. 1) It's a zombie to help trigger gravecrawlers 2) In many cases, especially after T2, the extra delve cost is fairly negligible 3) As I mentioned above, the extra point of power above VV is pretty big 4) Tasigurs ability will often do more harm than good, since your opp can put the cards you want in your GY into your hand and vise versa
To second what was said on the previous page, I would highly suggest people read through this thread, as well as the previous Dredgevine thread, at some point. Many many hours of play testing and discussion have been done and that was how I first learned many of the specific ins and outs of the decks.
Regarding whether to use Stinkweed Imp vs Golgari Gravetroll, it is meta and deck-specific and often a split is optimal. Want a big late-game resilient threat in grindy matchups? Want to Dredge as much a possible, with little caring about casting the card? GGT is your man. Want some defense against flyers or single-threat decks? Worried about having too few creatures to trigger VV, especially post board? Stinkweed is good there. I currently go with 3 GGT and 1 Imp, since I never want more than 1 Imp per game, but the 6 dredge makes the deck more consistent.
I think this is still doable, but maybe you're right that Dread Return - Cabal Therapy - Bridge from Below are necessary pieces. I'm brewing up something in the Deck Creation forum. Oh Dredge. Wai you so broken?
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
On another note, I play tested at my LGS tonight with some proxy cards and Prized Amalgam is absolutely bonkers. I went 6-1 in random matches tonight, only losing to Jund due to a misplay and a hand that should have been mulliganed. For future testing I will be increasing my Amalgam count to 3 and decreasing the Angler count to 3. I can post my list if anyone wishes, but most of my matches weren't even close. Thanks for the earlier info Manfred. It helped tweak my list for tonight!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
That's why Amalgam is good.
In fact I am thinking of cutting Vine altogether and playing Ghoulsteed. It takes way less set up even though it's a weaker card. Then we could cut green altogether and play Hedron Crab.
EDIT:
This is where am at after even more testing. Anyone got any feedback?
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Vengevine
1 Dregscape Zombie
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Faithless Looting
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Life from the Loam
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Swamp
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Watery Grave
1 Polluted Delta
4 Nature's Claim
4 Thoughtseize
3 Darkblast
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Sinister Concoction
Scavenging Ooze is also a pain. I'd like to fit in 1 more Concoction to deal with it, but Darkblast has been so good against Elves, Chord and other sort of rough MUs that I want to have 3. Maybe there's room for one Concoction in the maindeck, if I cut Dregscape Zombie or Dakmor Salvage.
The reason for the 2/1 Loam/Salvage split is that occasionally you don't want to wait a turn to activate Ghast. In those cases, Salvage is better. But generally Loam is superior.
Hard MUs so far: Infect, anything playing Scavenging Ooze. Infect is easier with Darkblast, I'd think, and I think one more Concoction can help too. Scooze can be handled with Concoction and Thoughtseize.
Yes please post your list, these new Innistrad spoilers make me want to get into this deck.
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack