I will probably start somewhere around here. Prized Amalgam seems like he wants in on this too, but I'm not sure how to fit him.
EDIT-
If anyone is considering Death's Shadow I would strongly suggest trying out Call to the Netherworld . It's great if you have enough black creatures to support it. And especially insane with Street Wraith. The play with Shadow is to discard it early and then return it later when/if your life total permits
Looking at your list i can buy into the Angler if the dredge plan works out but not really the Death's Shadows. Honestly sems you'd be completely reliant on the opponent to grow them at all. Any particular game plan there? If not i'd cut them to return the gravecallers. Stitcher has a lot of synergy with their zombie typing thats not to be underrated for Vengevine triggers.
the life requirement will be accomplished by the lands, dredgevines manabase is a bit greedy, it's not uncommon to do fetch-shock in the 1st 2-turns of the game.
with stitcher's as another turn-1 play, we want to have either Bor R on turn-1 and "possibly" a G on turn-2 for gather the pack. worst case if it's really "needed" we may cast death's shadow as a 0/0 just to meet the vengevine requirement, it still count as a cast. i believe as the game progress, death's shadow will become more of a threat than gravecrawler.
this list is still waiting to be tested as core 2019 comes out.
Fair enough. I'd be surprised if he ends up pulling his weight on lands alone without Street Wraith or Thoughtseize in the main but I'm always keen to see someone testing a brew. Please do post results when you get time!
early playtest with a friend using non-tier deck, showed some problems with my early list:
- Death's Shadow often comes turn-4 to have a sizeable body which is a little bit too late.
(*I've tried mainboard Thoughtseize but it delays the deck strategy of filling the gy)
(*turn-2: cast neonate -> discard vengevine -> cast shadow (eventually dies) feels so bad, this is true even if we are able to resolve 2-Vengevines in the battlefield.)
- I miss Gravecrawler, it's really hard to pass specially now that we have a 1-mana zombie gy enabler.
- neonate / stitcher's / imp, sometimes are underwhelming midgame.
with the reasons above, i'll try to use this list next time:
Stitcher's Supplier really wants Cabal Therapy to be legal in modern. Or if we had some other way to sacrifice it for value early in the game, effectively paying 1 Mana to Mill six cards and get some other value (via whatever your sac outlet is doing).
Eldritch Evolution might not be the answer, but I think it's a step in the right direction. If can tutor a Death's shadow late in the game when it matters most, it can tutor Eternal witness to get back a critical Gurmag Angler, it can get Varolz which is a super combo with Shadow of course.
went to a small event at my LGS to playtest using my last posted list and end up with a 3-0 result
R1: B/R Hollow One (2-0)
G1: my opponent didn't have early hollow one but has flameblade adept and 3 early bloodghast, managed to take the game back with angler, 2-vengevines and a lotleth troll, won the game with 2 life remaining
G2: played defensively and played around either blocking or taking damage, got lucky with the burning inquiry random discard, DS won the game for me.
in: pyroclasm x1, golgari charm x2, death shadow x3
out: gravecrawler x3, deadly allure x1, gather the pack x2
*my opponent didn't got hollow one on the battlefield for both games.
*stitcher's supplier is a great help during this match providing early board presence and gy engine.
R2: KCI (2-1)
G1: hindered my opponent at turn-3 with a removal for his scrap trawler but my opponent managed to combo off at turn 4, despite that i let him do his combo for me to gain a better understanding of his deck.
G2/G3: went with an aggro plan to race his deck before it combo off and also got lucky to draw my artifact/creature removals.
in: thoughtseize x3, ancient grudge x2, nihil spellbomb x2, abrupt decay x1
out: gather the pack x4, deadly allure x1, gurmag angler x1, stinkweed imp x1, lotleth troll x1
*my opponent is still new to playing KCI
*i 've read KCI from different mtg articles but this is the first time i experience it in action
R3: Mono U / Artifact Rogue (2-0)
*can't recall very much here.
here are the things i'm looking for while learning the deck:
- turn1 play conditions for looting / supplier / neonate
- should we increase the number of dredge cards.
- better land construction without going bankrupt (*cough* verdant catacombs *cough*)
So far this are what i've learn while playing the deck:
-T1 looting if i have vengevine / stinkweed imp / gather the pack in hand
-T1 looting if i only have 1-land
-T1 stitcher's supplier if i have gather the pack without looting (for a chance to activate spell mastery turn-2)
-T1 insolent neonate if i have vengevine / stinkweed without looting
-T2 gather the pack if it looks "safe" even without spell mastery, gather the pack feels like a poor play at turn3 and 4.
i'm really satisfied with the addition of stitcher's supplier and continue playtesting my current list.
btw, i'm a paper player and got a limited time to playtest, i'm looking forward for other dredgevine player to share their list and experience. thanks in advance!
Stitchers supplier has me interested in this deck again. I really like the Eldritch Evolution Varolz list posted, but it sort of feels like it's lacking evasion. Maybe some number of Hooting Mandrills in place of an Angler or two, and maybe Driven // Despair? Has the potential to improve combo matchups too
Stitchers supplier has me interested in this deck again. I really like the Eldritch Evolution Varolz list posted, but it sort of feels like it's lacking evasion. Maybe some number of Hooting Mandrills in place of an Angler or two, and maybe Driven // Despair? Has the potential to improve combo matchups too
Those are some great suggestions, thank you.
With some collective effort maybe we can develop that list here in this thread. Honestly Gurmag Angler felt like an auto-include since he pairs so well with Gravecrawler but we have a new Zombie in the mix so maybe the fish isn't necessary.
I do think some number of Gurmag Angler is still correct, especially with Black being the main color. But in some of the test games I played, you use Varolz to make him an 18/18 and it just doesn't matter because he gets chump blocked, where Mandrills lose a point of power, Zombie typing, and B cost, but gain Trample and A lower CMC. I'm sure with enough testing we'll find the right numbers
i think mandrils can be removed from that list since it already has lotleth troll (zombie / with evasion / gy engine) and can easily be fetch from evolution if needed. i'b probably swap the mandrills with neonate as neonate + dredge on turn-1 is really good and the menace ability of neonate can be relevant with scavenge
My worry with removing the Delve threats entirely is that you are committing to only Vengevine or Shadow being your haymaker threats. Not to say we need more than that, but I'm just iffy on the subject.
Insolent Neonate certainly has a home here, since he compliments both dredge and Vengevine very well. I'll test out some different builds over the week and update later.
Stitcher's Supplier got me thinking about this deck again. Every time I try to build this deck, I end up hating the mana because you need red on turn 1 for Looting/Neonate and BG on turn 2 for Lotleth Troll. So I'm thinking of a build without Troll.
I've identified Cryptbreaker as a Troll replacement. It's a Zombie for Gravecrawler (and makes more Zombies for him), a 1-drop for Vengevine, and a discard outlet for Stinkweed Imps/Vengevines/Bloodghasts/Gravecrawlers stuck in hand.
This is what I'm starting with. With 16 1-drops and 4 Gurmag Anglers, reanimating Vengevine should be more consistent than before. I have Fatal Push and Collective Brutality as the token interactive spells: Brutality helps dump cards from your hand into the graveyard, and Neonate can turn on revolt.
Don't you think Crypt Breaker requires a little too much setup? Requiring a tap, plus two Mana, coupled with the that he can't pitch a card immediately, say if they bolt him at your EOT?
Maybe that's a blessing in disguise since bolting him means they aren't bolting your threats. I just feel like a list like this needs...something
I would probably agree though that Neonate and Looting are too valuable to forgo
@izzetmage, spot on with regards to the manabase, i also do have the same problem, so far i haven't played with a bloodmoon deck or encounter the card but i think i will really have a problem with that specially that i dont have a verdant catacomb, so far my opponent is focused on using graveyard hate instead of bloodmoon as a sideboard against me. i dont think swapping crypt breaker will be the solution but i believe lotleth troll has a very good place in the list with insolent neonate / gravecrawler / stitcher's supplier / stinkweed imp, if all of them are in a 4-ofs, come midgame this cards are not that impactful at this point is where lotleth troll truly shines.
just to share: on my main i have this green cards (excluding vengevine): lotleth troll (3), gather the pack (4). i might go down to 2-trolls, as for the gather the pack, this is the card i usually sideout at G2 and add thoughtseize + death's shadow to transform the deck to be more B/R and less reliant on graveyard to counter the hate.
Cryptbreaker is definitely not a speed card. It's a grindy card. Most of the time you would play your other 1-drops to loot/mill and draw out removal before playing him. My general priority for playing 1-drops is:
1) Faithless Looting. You want to keep your other 1-drop creatures in hand to trigger Vengevine. If you cast Looting early you might miss out on the dredge-twice dream, but as this deck runs fewer dredgers than Dredge itself, it's just that, a dream.
2) Stitcher's Supplier. Compared to Insolent Neonate, it doesn't sac itself, so you can mill while getting in a few free points of damage.
3) Insolent Neonate. It enables T2 Angler if you have Imp in hand, so that's one reason to play it before Supplier.
4) Gravecrawler, preferably from the graveyard. If your opponent has a lot of removal, you want him to waste it on Gravecrawler. If he doesn't, you want to set up with your other cards for bigger payoffs instead.
5) Cryptbreaker. It doesn't attack well and takes mana to get value out of. Although if you need a second 1-drop on turn 2 for Vengevine, it'll suffice.
I thought about dropping red for blue (using Hedron Crab, Chart a Course and Tracker's Instincts to mill/loot instead), but decided against it as the options in blue for getting cards from your hand into your graveyard are not great. With red, if you have a Vengevine in hand, you can loot on turn 1, discard it, and play two 1-drops on turn 2. That's not happening with blue.
I looked at the other options for discarding cards from your hand (Rotting Rats, Zombie Infestation, Olivia's Dragoon) and they don't really strike me as better than Cryptbreaker, other than Collective Brutality, which I already have. You can't play too many cards that make you discard (not loot) or you'll end up with no hand fast.
Long time no see ladies and gentlemen. I come to you bearing the gift of a decklist. I saw this pop up on MTGGoldfish, having been posted as a 5-0 list in the Modern Leagues twice. The deck looks super sweet, and while it does eschew the Dredge cards, it definitely shows how Stitcher's Supplier may be the creature we've been wanting for Vengevine.
hi Skitzafreak, that's goodnews! hope it will attract more brewers and fine tuners.
my primary concern about that list is that i feel there's too few discard/digging outlet. the list wants to put vengevine, bridge and bloodghast in the graveyard but it only has faithless looting, insolent neonate, and stitcher's supplier to do the job. i would like to put a salvage effect card in that list to help on that aspect.
hi Skitzafreak, that's goodnews! hope it will attract more brewers and fine tuners.
my primary concern about that list is that i feel there's too few discard/digging outlet. the list wants to put vengevine, bridge and bloodghast in the graveyard but it only has faithless looting, insolent neonate, and stitcher's supplier to do the job. i would like to put a salvage effect card in that list to help on that aspect.
The thing about the Bridgevine deck, is yes you want Bridge, Vengevine, and Bloodghast in your yard, but you don't need them all there at the same time. They are redundant win conditions. You can win with 1 Bridge in your yard, or 2 Vengevine, or 1-2 Bloodghast. You don't need all of them all the time.
As such the discard suite is actually enough to facilitate the needs of the deck.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
The important thing is having enough discard outlets to pitch your Bridge, should you draw it. Unlike Vine and Ghast, it does absolutely nothing from your hand. Bridge also seems fragile against creature heavy decks that will likely block every combat
Cards I’m courious about are bone picker and infernal plunge they don’t fit perfectly but they seem extremely strong with the correct build. Starting with something like this.
The important thing is having enough discard outlets to pitch your Bridge, should you draw it. Unlike Vine and Ghast, it does absolutely nothing from your hand. Bridge also seems fragile against creature heavy decks that will likely block every combat
that's another reason why im hesitant to try the bridge version, aside from graveyard hate and though "in efficient" a removal in opponent's own creature can also do the job, but they have posted multiple 5-0 results, i dont have the cards yet that's why i cant feel if i like it or not, for now i'll observe their forum and results. for reference here's the link: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/786905-bridgevine
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4 Insolent Neonate
4 Gravecrawler
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Vengevine
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning bolt
3 Cathartic Reunion
Lands (19)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
I will probably start somewhere around here. Prized Amalgam seems like he wants in on this too, but I'm not sure how to fit him.
EDIT-
If anyone is considering Death's Shadow I would strongly suggest trying out Call to the Netherworld . It's great if you have enough black creatures to support it. And especially insane with Street Wraith. The play with Shadow is to discard it early and then return it later when/if your life total permits
Draft My Cube!
Fair enough. I'd be surprised if he ends up pulling his weight on lands alone without Street Wraith or Thoughtseize in the main but I'm always keen to see someone testing a brew. Please do post results when you get time!
early playtest with a friend using non-tier deck, showed some problems with my early list:
- Death's Shadow often comes turn-4 to have a sizeable body which is a little bit too late.
(*I've tried mainboard Thoughtseize but it delays the deck strategy of filling the gy)
(*turn-2: cast neonate -> discard vengevine -> cast shadow (eventually dies) feels so bad, this is true even if we are able to resolve 2-Vengevines in the battlefield.)
- I miss Gravecrawler, it's really hard to pass specially now that we have a 1-mana zombie gy enabler.
- neonate / stitcher's / imp, sometimes are underwhelming midgame.
with the reasons above, i'll try to use this list next time:
2x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
2x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Mana Confluence
Creature (25)
4x Stitcher's Supplier
3x Gravecrawler
3x Lotleth Troll
4x Insolent Neonate
3x Gurmag Angler
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Vengevine
1x Murderous Cut
1x Abrade
4x Faithless Looting
2x Fatal Push
1x Deadly Allure
4x Gather the Pack
2x Lightning Axe
3x Death's Shadow
3x Thoughtseize
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Golgari Charm
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Pyroclasm
Wishlist but no extra funds for them:
-Verdant Catacombs: extra fetch for basic swamp as the deck is more B now.
-Collective Brutality
I'm thinking something like:
4 Death's shadow
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Vengevine
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Eternal witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-striped
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
3 Eldritch Evolution
Lands
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown tomb
2 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Eldritch Evolution might not be the answer, but I think it's a step in the right direction. If can tutor a Death's shadow late in the game when it matters most, it can tutor Eternal witness to get back a critical Gurmag Angler, it can get Varolz which is a super combo with Shadow of course.
Draft My Cube!
R1: B/R Hollow One (2-0)
G1: my opponent didn't have early hollow one but has flameblade adept and 3 early bloodghast, managed to take the game back with angler, 2-vengevines and a lotleth troll, won the game with 2 life remaining
G2: played defensively and played around either blocking or taking damage, got lucky with the burning inquiry random discard, DS won the game for me.
in: pyroclasm x1, golgari charm x2, death shadow x3
out: gravecrawler x3, deadly allure x1, gather the pack x2
*my opponent didn't got hollow one on the battlefield for both games.
*stitcher's supplier is a great help during this match providing early board presence and gy engine.
R2: KCI (2-1)
G1: hindered my opponent at turn-3 with a removal for his scrap trawler but my opponent managed to combo off at turn 4, despite that i let him do his combo for me to gain a better understanding of his deck.
G2/G3: went with an aggro plan to race his deck before it combo off and also got lucky to draw my artifact/creature removals.
in: thoughtseize x3, ancient grudge x2, nihil spellbomb x2, abrupt decay x1
out: gather the pack x4, deadly allure x1, gurmag angler x1, stinkweed imp x1, lotleth troll x1
*my opponent is still new to playing KCI
*i 've read KCI from different mtg articles but this is the first time i experience it in action
R3: Mono U / Artifact Rogue (2-0)
*can't recall very much here.
here are the things i'm looking for while learning the deck:
- turn1 play conditions for looting / supplier / neonate
- should we increase the number of dredge cards.
- better land construction without going bankrupt (*cough* verdant catacombs *cough*)
So far this are what i've learn while playing the deck:
-T1 looting if i have vengevine / stinkweed imp / gather the pack in hand
-T1 looting if i only have 1-land
-T1 stitcher's supplier if i have gather the pack without looting (for a chance to activate spell mastery turn-2)
-T1 insolent neonate if i have vengevine / stinkweed without looting
-T2 gather the pack if it looks "safe" even without spell mastery, gather the pack feels like a poor play at turn3 and 4.
i'm really satisfied with the addition of stitcher's supplier and continue playtesting my current list.
btw, i'm a paper player and got a limited time to playtest, i'm looking forward for other dredgevine player to share their list and experience. thanks in advance!
Those are some great suggestions, thank you.
With some collective effort maybe we can develop that list here in this thread. Honestly Gurmag Angler felt like an auto-include since he pairs so well with Gravecrawler but we have a new Zombie in the mix so maybe the fish isn't necessary.
4 Death's Shadow
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Gravecrawler
3 Lotleth Troll
1 Golgari Thug
1 Eternal Witness
3 Stinkweed Imp
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Vengevine
3 Hooting Mandrills
Spells (13):
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Eldritch Evolution
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Driven // Despair
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Golgari Charm
2 Collective Brutality
4 ????
Draft My Cube!
My worry with removing the Delve threats entirely is that you are committing to only Vengevine or Shadow being your haymaker threats. Not to say we need more than that, but I'm just iffy on the subject.
Insolent Neonate certainly has a home here, since he compliments both dredge and Vengevine very well. I'll test out some different builds over the week and update later.
Thanks for the interest here.
Draft My Cube!
I've identified Cryptbreaker as a Troll replacement. It's a Zombie for Gravecrawler (and makes more Zombies for him), a 1-drop for Vengevine, and a discard outlet for Stinkweed Imps/Vengevines/Bloodghasts/Gravecrawlers stuck in hand.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Gravecrawler
4 Cryptbreaker
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Faithless Looting
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine
4 Gurmag Angler
3 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Maybe that's a blessing in disguise since bolting him means they aren't bolting your threats. I just feel like a list like this needs...something
I would probably agree though that Neonate and Looting are too valuable to forgo
Draft My Cube!
just to share: on my main i have this green cards (excluding vengevine): lotleth troll (3), gather the pack (4). i might go down to 2-trolls, as for the gather the pack, this is the card i usually sideout at G2 and add thoughtseize + death's shadow to transform the deck to be more B/R and less reliant on graveyard to counter the hate.
1) Faithless Looting. You want to keep your other 1-drop creatures in hand to trigger Vengevine. If you cast Looting early you might miss out on the dredge-twice dream, but as this deck runs fewer dredgers than Dredge itself, it's just that, a dream.
2) Stitcher's Supplier. Compared to Insolent Neonate, it doesn't sac itself, so you can mill while getting in a few free points of damage.
3) Insolent Neonate. It enables T2 Angler if you have Imp in hand, so that's one reason to play it before Supplier.
4) Gravecrawler, preferably from the graveyard. If your opponent has a lot of removal, you want him to waste it on Gravecrawler. If he doesn't, you want to set up with your other cards for bigger payoffs instead.
5) Cryptbreaker. It doesn't attack well and takes mana to get value out of. Although if you need a second 1-drop on turn 2 for Vengevine, it'll suffice.
I thought about dropping red for blue (using Hedron Crab, Chart a Course and Tracker's Instincts to mill/loot instead), but decided against it as the options in blue for getting cards from your hand into your graveyard are not great. With red, if you have a Vengevine in hand, you can loot on turn 1, discard it, and play two 1-drops on turn 2. That's not happening with blue.
I looked at the other options for discarding cards from your hand (Rotting Rats, Zombie Infestation, Olivia's Dragoon) and they don't really strike me as better than Cryptbreaker, other than Collective Brutality, which I already have. You can't play too many cards that make you discard (not loot) or you'll end up with no hand fast.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Blood Crypt
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Stomping Ground
1x Mountain
Spells - 6
4x Faithless Looting
2x Lightning Axe
Enchantments - 4
4x Bridge From Below
4x Hangarback Walker
4x Walking Ballista
3x Goblin Bushwhacker
4x Gravecrawler
4x Insolent Neonate
4x Stitcher's Supplier
2x Viscera Seer
4x Bloodghast
4x Vengevine
2x Grim Lavamancer
3x Thoughtseize
2x Collective Brutality
2x Big Game Hunter
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Ingot Chewer
Enjoy
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
my primary concern about that list is that i feel there's too few discard/digging outlet. the list wants to put vengevine, bridge and bloodghast in the graveyard but it only has faithless looting, insolent neonate, and stitcher's supplier to do the job. i would like to put a salvage effect card in that list to help on that aspect.
just to share, here's a "much abrew" episode of the bridgevine deck prior printing of stitcher's supplier for reference.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/much-abrew-bridgevine-modern
The thing about the Bridgevine deck, is yes you want Bridge, Vengevine, and Bloodghast in your yard, but you don't need them all there at the same time. They are redundant win conditions. You can win with 1 Bridge in your yard, or 2 Vengevine, or 1-2 Bloodghast. You don't need all of them all the time.
As such the discard suite is actually enough to facilitate the needs of the deck.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Draft My Cube!
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Gravecrawler
4 Hangarback Walker
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Stitcher's Supplier
4 Vengevine
4 Viscera Seer
4 Bridge from Below
Sorcery (7)
4 Faithless Looting
3 Infernal Plunge
Land (17)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Graven Cairns
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Big Game Hunter
3 Collective Brutality
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Thoughtseize
that's another reason why im hesitant to try the bridge version, aside from graveyard hate and though "in efficient" a removal in opponent's own creature can also do the job, but they have posted multiple 5-0 results, i dont have the cards yet that's why i cant feel if i like it or not, for now i'll observe their forum and results. for reference here's the link: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/786905-bridgevine