I have removed insolent neonate from the list that's why I have lessen the number of dredge cards from my list.
In return Cryptbreaker and Grisly Salvage were added as graveyard engine. This is still for testing
Would this be a time to move back to BUG? Running Hedron crabbie and some other spicy tech that dredge doesn't use?
i feel that Faithless Looting and Cathartic Reunion are too good to pass up for a BUG build. But we do have the same idea of lessening our dependence to the dredge mechanic.
BUG is way less consistent. Neonate = 1 drop, plus T1 dredging. Why remove him?
I find neonate to be lacking after the GGT ban, so I'm trying to replace it with Cryptbreaker, Cryptbreaker's role is for gravecrawler synergy, graveyard and card draw engine. Plus the additional Grisly Salvage for more turn-2 graveyard action.
BUG is way less consistent. Neonate = 1 drop, plus T1 dredging. Why remove him?
I find neonate to be lacking after the GGT ban, so I'm trying to replace it with Cryptbreaker, Cryptbreaker's role is for gravecrawler synergy, graveyard and card draw engine. Plus the additional Grisly Salvage for more turn-2 graveyard action.
woah! we can easily meet vengevine requirement with that card, nice find there and thanks for sharing!
Welcome. Hope it helps!
That Cryptbreaker is screaming no to me. It is a one drop, but we don't need card draw or the zombie. We've got LolTroll, Gravecrawler, and Amalgam to fit the billfor zombies. We've got enough discard. Plus dredging turn one is huge!
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Hey Manfred, how do you like Haunted Dead? I like the zombie, extra 1/1, and discard outlet. I believe it's return does not count as a cast, but still, how do you fare with it?
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Wow I haven't been here in awhile and I missed a lot. I've bern trying out Flamewake Phoenix as an option against midrange decks that I normally stall out against (to chip flying on them). I haven't played all the much but from what I've been trying it feels like a win more because if you can't one way or another get bulk out he's stuck in the yard.
Cryptbreaker doesn't excite me because its ability is mana activated. Were usually looking at 4 mana max and you want to be putting out two creatures on t3/4 to trigger vengevines rather than setting up zombies. Almost any card with mana costs to activate abilities is kind of turn off which is another reason I struggle keeping the phoneix in.
I like greenbelt is definitely a good idea but I also really like lightning berserker in the same role. Berserker has that option to pump and he's red which has become a prominent color compared to when we used to just have looting in red. I think rampager however is a great blocking option and he dodges removal a lot better. He also allows us to use multiple colors when casting our creatures (as opposed to getting locked one color of creatures with not enough of that color of mana).
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
I like greenbelt is definitely a good idea but I also really like lightning berserker in the same role. Berserker has that option to pump and he's red which has become a prominent color compared to when we used to just have looting in red. I think rampager however is a great blocking option and he dodges removal a lot better. He also allows us to use multiple colors when casting our creatures (as opposed to getting locked one color of creatures with not enough of that color of mana).
Flamewake never was more than a slot filler before we got some upgrades last year. Lightning Berserker is nice, but Greenbelt Rampager takes it to your hand and allows you to recast it the same main phase. I'm interested in having one creature to recur Vengevines with.
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
I like greenbelt is definitely a good idea but I also really like lightning berserker in the same role. Berserker has that option to pump and he's red which has become a prominent color compared to when we used to just have looting in red. I think rampager however is a great blocking option and he dodges removal a lot better. He also allows us to use multiple colors when casting our creatures (as opposed to getting locked one color of creatures with not enough of that color of mana).
Flamewake never was more than a slot filler before we got some upgrades last year. Lightning Berserker is nice, but Greenbelt Rampager takes it to your hand and allows you to recast it the same main phase. I'm interested in having one creature to recur Vengevines with.
Very, very sneaky and I like it. Definitely will be picking some up. I've not really been paying attention to the recent sets besides some neat commander stuff, anything else worth picking up while I'm ordering?
Edit: Thoughts on a single mutavault as a late game option? It can be recovered with Life from the Loam and acts as an on-call zombie which can be activated for a non-black. Also can act as a blocker to recover with loam replay to trigger bloodghasts. It feels like it has a lot of utility and I know it has been tried in the past but I was wondering how it works in the newer build.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
A 3 color deck with 20 sources doesn't need help in the land department. I particularly don't want the colorless mana. With the printing of amalgam we just don't need it.
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Modern decks: BGRDredgevineBGR UWRJeskai ControlUWR
i used to run a B/G version of dredgevine and what i've experience is that the B/G version lacks turn-1/2 explosiveness in which a jund color can provide (ex. faithless looting). for the B/G version we rely heavily on grisly salvage and satyr wayfinder in order to fill-up our yard which happens at turns-2/3. if you still plan to stick with B/G color, i suggest the following cards:
-satyr wayfinder
-gurmag angler or prized amalgam (choose only one of them)
-cryptbreaker
-sinister concoction
-greenbelt rampager
-lotleth troll
I've been trying to make straight BG Vine work for a while. And we do have better tools now than when I first started forcing the archetype (back when DRS was modern legal) but I still don't know how much potential there is. Here's my current list
The problem is without red, the explosive starts are taken away. Faithless Looting is easily one of the best cards ever printed. Even if Budget is a concern, a playset of Copperline Gorge and a pair of Blood Crypts aren't going to break the bank and it would be well worth it.
That being said, I love my rock vine list. It's been a pet deck of mine forever. I'm waiting for it be viable or at least well-positioned in a meta so I can take a tournament by surprise.
Is it worth keeping two abrupt decays in the sideboard? I haven't taken them out since I changed my deck towards a more all in dredge approach and unless I draw them their going to be pretty dead.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
Fellow Dredgeviners, its good to see this thread is still updated from time to time. I have been a long time follower of this topic. Checking to see if theres a list or an idea that may interest me. However; its been a long time since then. I still remember the list that had caught my attention was
Legion273's list for modern festival last 2015.
Its been a long time since a dredgevine list made it to a really good finish. The reason maybe is that i find new list to be going to the all-in dredge plan which i find it the wrong way to go not like Legion273's list that went the other way which i really really like. I tried contacting Legion273 mtgo (Justin Leshen) i want to ask many questions and maybe get a video coverage or two of his list but failed to.
Since printing of the prized amalgam and the sudden surge of All in dredge list until players figured my favorite card vengevine is a little but too clunky and exchange prized amalgam in his place instead which changes the while point of using an amazing card like vengevine.
So i went something like this list and its showing great results.
4 Vengevine
4 Gravecrawler
3 Satyr Way-finder
1 Rotting Rats
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Faithless Looting
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Axe
2 Murderous Cut
1 Darkblast
1 Life from the loam
20 Lands
The adding of Insolent Neonate really turn the consistenct of turn 2 vengevine.
it looks like a pre-SOI list except for the Insolent Neonate, i feel it's more of a midrange build.
how's the experience playing it, dont you encounter difficulty now that gravehate is prevalent because of the popularity of dredge?
have you tried playing the dredgevine version with prized amalgam+bloodghast? if yes, what's your experience and comparison between the two?
I have been following different iterations of both dredgevine and dredge, but have always been a bigger fan of vengevine since it got printed. Just to share some of my thoughts on playing both decks here.
The first two turns for both decks tend to be similar, except neonate is not an automatic turn 1 cast for dredgevine, and narcomoebas make ugly draws for dredge. Turn 2 is where dredgevine is outclassed: Mom hug is stronger in dredge thanks to narco (free goodies), and casting loltroll is a little tame in an aggressive format. Later, the card that separates the two decks is really conflagrate: the double red mana cycles cards on hand (namely, lands from loam and dredgers from mom hug) into direct damage in a highly mana efficient way, but which competes with the dredgevine plan of double black mana (or more) playing creatures (and thus reducing hand size necessary for conflagrate) which usually ends games faster than dredge if it succeeds (means no anger of gods), or jams (due to failure to find lands off the top or finding nothing to recur dredgers).
In an aggro format, the interaction (meaning roasting opponent creatures) available for dredge is better but in the present meta with more tron and other nonsense, I think dredgevine is reasonable. I also find it hard to go back to wayfinders, even with the diminished dredging power of mom's hug. There seems to be little to argue for a fair approach when the creme de la creme fair decks like jund are finding it so hard in this unfair meta.
My current dredgevine list is similar to killer_manfred's (just less loltrolls, more dredgers, gq in sb).
goodluck in the tournament! i use 3-IoK in the side, my mana base is a bit hurtful to me and besides most of what i want to capture with discard can be hit by IoK
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In return Cryptbreaker and Grisly Salvage were added as graveyard engine. This is still for testing
i feel that Faithless Looting and Cathartic Reunion are too good to pass up for a BUG build. But we do have the same idea of lessening our dependence to the dredge mechanic.
I too am running a simple Dredgevine list. Replaced 4 GGT with 3 Golgari Thug and 1 Greenbelt Rampager. It's amazing.
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
I find neonate to be lacking after the GGT ban, so I'm trying to replace it with Cryptbreaker, Cryptbreaker's role is for gravecrawler synergy, graveyard and card draw engine. Plus the additional Grisly Salvage for more turn-2 graveyard action.
woah! we can easily meet vengevine requirement with that card, nice find there and thanks for sharing!
That Cryptbreaker is screaming no to me. It is a one drop, but we don't need card draw or the zombie. We've got LolTroll, Gravecrawler, and Amalgam to fit the billfor zombies. We've got enough discard. Plus dredging turn one is huge!
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
I think Grafdigger's Cage will be the more popular graveyard hate card after the GGT ban.
Do you feel comfortable having no mainboard removal such as lightning axe or other removal cards?
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Cryptbreaker doesn't excite me because its ability is mana activated. Were usually looking at 4 mana max and you want to be putting out two creatures on t3/4 to trigger vengevines rather than setting up zombies. Almost any card with mana costs to activate abilities is kind of turn off which is another reason I struggle keeping the phoneix in.
I like greenbelt is definitely a good idea but I also really like lightning berserker in the same role. Berserker has that option to pump and he's red which has become a prominent color compared to when we used to just have looting in red. I think rampager however is a great blocking option and he dodges removal a lot better. He also allows us to use multiple colors when casting our creatures (as opposed to getting locked one color of creatures with not enough of that color of mana).
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
Very, very sneaky and I like it. Definitely will be picking some up. I've not really been paying attention to the recent sets besides some neat commander stuff, anything else worth picking up while I'm ordering?
Edit: Thoughts on a single mutavault as a late game option? It can be recovered with Life from the Loam and acts as an on-call zombie which can be activated for a non-black. Also can act as a blocker to recover with loam replay to trigger bloodghasts. It feels like it has a lot of utility and I know it has been tried in the past but I was wondering how it works in the newer build.
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
BGRDredgevineBGR
UWRJeskai ControlUWR
Pauper:
GMono-Green AggroG
MTGO Username: creamy99
Twitch Stream: www.twitch.tv/coachcreamy
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/Cherokee3210
Check it out for the latest testing, gameplay, and dailies!
i used to run a B/G version of dredgevine and what i've experience is that the B/G version lacks turn-1/2 explosiveness in which a jund color can provide (ex. faithless looting). for the B/G version we rely heavily on grisly salvage and satyr wayfinder in order to fill-up our yard which happens at turns-2/3. if you still plan to stick with B/G color, i suggest the following cards:
-satyr wayfinder
-gurmag angler or prized amalgam (choose only one of them)
-cryptbreaker
-sinister concoction
-greenbelt rampager
-lotleth troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth troll
4 Vengevine
4 Gurmag Angler
3 Tasigur, the Golden fang
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Vengeful Pharoah
Spells (16)
4 Commune with the Gods
4 Sinister Concoction
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Overgrown tomb
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Bitterblossom
2 Grapple with the Past
2 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Liliana, the last hope
2 Duress
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Vengeful Pharoah
The problem is without red, the explosive starts are taken away. Faithless Looting is easily one of the best cards ever printed. Even if Budget is a concern, a playset of Copperline Gorge and a pair of Blood Crypts aren't going to break the bank and it would be well worth it.
That being said, I love my rock vine list. It's been a pet deck of mine forever. I'm waiting for it be viable or at least well-positioned in a meta so I can take a tournament by surprise.
Draft My Cube!
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
Legion273's list for modern festival last 2015.
Its been a long time since a dredgevine list made it to a really good finish. The reason maybe is that i find new list to be going to the all-in dredge plan which i find it the wrong way to go not like Legion273's list that went the other way which i really really like. I tried contacting Legion273 mtgo (Justin Leshen) i want to ask many questions and maybe get a video coverage or two of his list but failed to.
Since printing of the prized amalgam and the sudden surge of All in dredge list until players figured my favorite card vengevine is a little but too clunky and exchange prized amalgam in his place instead which changes the while point of using an amazing card like vengevine.
So i went something like this list and its showing great results.
4 Vengevine
4 Gravecrawler
3 Satyr Way-finder
1 Rotting Rats
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Faithless Looting
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Axe
2 Murderous Cut
1 Darkblast
1 Life from the loam
20 Lands
The adding of Insolent Neonate really turn the consistenct of turn 2 vengevine.
it looks like a pre-SOI list except for the Insolent Neonate, i feel it's more of a midrange build.
how's the experience playing it, dont you encounter difficulty now that gravehate is prevalent because of the popularity of dredge?
have you tried playing the dredgevine version with prized amalgam+bloodghast? if yes, what's your experience and comparison between the two?
(*i miss gurmag angler* hehehe)
I have been following different iterations of both dredgevine and dredge, but have always been a bigger fan of vengevine since it got printed. Just to share some of my thoughts on playing both decks here.
The first two turns for both decks tend to be similar, except neonate is not an automatic turn 1 cast for dredgevine, and narcomoebas make ugly draws for dredge. Turn 2 is where dredgevine is outclassed: Mom hug is stronger in dredge thanks to narco (free goodies), and casting loltroll is a little tame in an aggressive format. Later, the card that separates the two decks is really conflagrate: the double red mana cycles cards on hand (namely, lands from loam and dredgers from mom hug) into direct damage in a highly mana efficient way, but which competes with the dredgevine plan of double black mana (or more) playing creatures (and thus reducing hand size necessary for conflagrate) which usually ends games faster than dredge if it succeeds (means no anger of gods), or jams (due to failure to find lands off the top or finding nothing to recur dredgers).
In an aggro format, the interaction (meaning roasting opponent creatures) available for dredge is better but in the present meta with more tron and other nonsense, I think dredgevine is reasonable. I also find it hard to go back to wayfinders, even with the diminished dredging power of mom's hug. There seems to be little to argue for a fair approach when the creme de la creme fair decks like jund are finding it so hard in this unfair meta.
My current dredgevine list is similar to killer_manfred's (just less loltrolls, more dredgers, gq in sb).
goodluck in the tournament! i use 3-IoK in the side, my mana base is a bit hurtful to me and besides most of what i want to capture with discard can be hit by IoK