i use golgari thug as a recurrable 2-cmc dredge card and not by his ability. i choose thug instead of imp since i need a 2-cmc creature to have a more reliable turn 3 or turn 4 2-cast creature for vengevine. i only cast this card for the 2-cmc requirement of vengevine.
for haunted dead, i do use a copy of this card for an additional trigger for amalgam and gravecrawler.
i'm still getting the "feel" about the change that i've done, so far i'm ok with it,having golgari thug as a 2-cmc creature is easier in the manabase.
i haven't miss the imp because of it's flying or dredge capability but i do miss it's deathtouch for defensive reasons.
for the haunted dead, i haven't tested it yet in my LGS, i only played with a friend and a few goldfishing. without haunted dead, i find myself relying in prized amalgam as a zombie board presence for gravecrawler to be casted from our graveyard, i seldom have a lotleth troll or another gravecrawler in my hand maybe because of dredge instead of drawing (we need to draw sometimes for this), having another zombie that can come from graveyard will help amalgam and gravecrawler triggers.
A few problems with the current version of the deck I have are:
1. not being able to return something to trigger my Amalgams. I've considered playing Narcomoebas, but they're just too low-impact,
2. not being able to return Haunted Dead due to not having 2 cards in hand,
for #1: i also experience this that's why i'm adding haunted dead, not sure if 1 or 2 copies, but for now, i use 1 copy of this card.
for #2: no idea what happened why you ended up with this scenario, before adding haunted dead i'm playing with a conflagrate mainboard and i can normally discard 3 cards for it's flashback.
I'm really not sure how I feel about this deck right now :/
Unless Gravecrawler 5-8 gets printed, it just feels strictly worse than dredge when it comes to aggro. Right now I'm thinking it would be strongest as a midrange (leaning towards aggro) deck with utility spells that help the gameplan (lightning axe, darkblast, collective brutality, etc.)
I playtested an all in (dredgeless) aggro version with the Varolz + Shadow combo dumped in. I didn't really expect it to work (it didn't) even with 2 lead the stampede and playsets of looting and salvage. On average, it was a turn too slow and would overkill the last turn.
I've been slowly reworking it a few cards at a time and this is where I'm at right now
4 vine
4 crawler
4 Lotleth
2 grim Flayer (as troll 5&6 kinda)
4 birds of paradise
3 varolz
3 deaths shadow
3 bloodghast
2 flamewake phoenix (haven't tested yet, used to be 1 ghast and 1 collective Brutality
My version which I played at GP Lille with no success but then proceeded to go 3-1 at every side event (draw or loss in final and one elimnation SSQ) I have top 8ed a PPTQ and run this on MTGO with 80% win-rate.
4 faithless lootings
2 life from the loam
2 conflagrate
20 lands
61 cards total
2 life from the loam, ensures landfalls and fuel for conflagrate and HD.
HD is the best card to have in your grave after any board wipe or stuck on two lands or blocking affinity. It activates Grave crawler and gives Prized amalgams haste if you do it in your opponent's second main phase, for me it's an all star card.
Can you elaborate more on this 80% win rate? What room/events are you playing? Thanks.
for me, no:
it's another can't block creature, card slots for the deck is too tight, i would choose haunted dead over this for the slot. same 2-mana activation cost, a zombie and also a graveyard enabler
I think Bournat Courier is a reason to get excited about Dredgevine again. Who knows if it will make the deck better than Dredge, but it's strictly better in this deck than in Dredge.
I think Bournat Courier is a reason to get excited about Dredgevine again. Who knows if it will make the deck better than Dredge, but it's strictly better in this deck than in Dredge.
Yeah this is for sure really good, it's a creature we can fling out on turn one (for a COLORLESS) and get some card advantage of. That being said, this card seems pretty dead later in the game, he'll wall into stuff.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
I think Bournat Courier is a reason to get excited about Dredgevine again. Who knows if it will make the deck better than Dredge, but it's strictly better in this deck than in Dredge.
Yeah this is for sure really good, it's a creature we can fling out on turn one (for a COLORLESS) and get some card advantage of. That being said, this card seems pretty dead later in the game, he'll wall into stuff.
Read your own signature and I think you'll understand why that's not so relevant for this deck.
ohlala! nice card, i will definitely play it. i think life from the loam is now a must if you plan to use this card with conflagrate or haunted dead.
i also think that this card would push golgari thug as the second dredge card of choice instead of stinkweed imp in order to have a higher chance of casting 2-creatures at turn 3 and 4 for vengevine requirement
Round one- Infect 1-2
G1:L He was on the play and I had no removal, by the time I had a decent game going he wrecked me
+2 Darkblast +2 Abrupt decay -1 Loam -3 Grisly Salvage
G2:W I started out with a t1 dredge off of neonate and a darkblast in hand and he conceded by turn 3
G3:L I had both my darkblasts and was picking his creatures off one at a time while filling my graveyard until he got out pendelhaven and the game stalled for about three turns where I had a about 60-70% of my deck in my graveyard and I couldn't topdeck a land, zombie, or red enabler to kick off my graveyard and he answered all my removal.
Round two- Bring to light Scapeshift 2-1
G1:L I was just way too slow, opening hand was kind of a durdle
+2 Gnaw to the bone +2 Ghost Quarter
G2:W Fast start and I gnawed to the bone for 16 and beat him down, won the game after he used supreme verdict and I eot used ghost quarter on my own land to trigger bloodghst and amalgam at the end of his turn for the game
G3:W Don't remember this one too well other than that I used gnaw to gain a bunch of life again and havng a pretty fast start.
Round three- Jund 2-1
G1:W His start seemed fairly slow and I was able to dredge pretty well and beat down with bloodghasts
+1 erebos, God of the Dead +2 Murderous cut +2 Gnaw to the bone +1 Vengeful Pharoah -2 Stinkweed Imp -1 Golgari Grave-troll -1 Prized Amalgam -1 Grisly Salvage
G2:L T1 he took my lotleth troll and then scavenging ooze sealed the deal.
G3:W This was a lot more tough but I was able to slowly gain advantage on him and eventually was able to have 2 gravecrawlers 2 Prized amalgams 2 vengevines 3 bloodghasts and erebos out to swing at his raging ravine and 2 goyfs.
Round four- Jund 2-1
G1:W Similar to the last game, slow start for him and I was just too resilient.
+1 erebos, God of the Dead +2 Murderous cut +2 Gnaw to the bone +1 Vengeful Pharoah -2 Stinkweed Imp -1 Golgari Grave-troll -1 Prized Amalgam -1 Grisly Salvage
G2:L He had a Nihl spellbomb which wasn't the end of the world but it hurt and I was struggling after he took my troll.
G3:W Wasn't an overly fast game but I was able to wither him down with small guys while fillng up my graveyard, gnaw gave me some breating room and bloodghasts with hase gave me the game
Round Five- Nahiri (1-1) (we drew to top 8 but played for fun)
G1:W Won off of resilience
G2:L I durdled way too long, I missed amalgam triggers twice and wasn't overly aggressive in my play, that being said I still lost.
T8- Nahiri(0-2)
G1: Good game but I was a tad too slow and he had too much removal before I could get to his Nahiri
G2: I had two faithless lootings and a neonate in a 6 card hand with no lands, being a little overly confident in my deck I kept and ate it with 3 turns of no lands before I conceded. Lets not speak of this.
Overall I felt great about the deck, I think I definitely need a better card to launch out of the graveyard. I'm thinkin the one mana unearth zombie so I can go off without having to draw. The Amalgams feel great and the neonate does too but I still think I'm too dead when I straight dredge. I also need to remember those amalgam triggers, I missed them on numerous occasions, luckily it didn't really matter but it still was pretty painful when I realized I missed them. I also realize in the jund matchup I probably should have kept the stinkweed imps for blockers and switched out more grave-trolls.
As for Cathartic Reunion- it's good but I keep getting stuck on the fact that it dies in the yard, I want to be able to pour my deck out and not look back.
Bomat Courier-- Dead in the yard, and it's really a hinderance in triggering vengevine, t2 I want to play salvage or lotleth troll and when I still have to pay 1 get any benefit out of this I'm not sure how much I like it. I feel like it has to be treated as a 2cmc and at that point I still like grisly salvage better because it's more reliable. I do like the colorless and potential for massive card advantage but I'm not sure it fits (with me at least).
Haunted dead- I'm not a fan of this, I usually find myself with one or no cards later in the game completely playing my graveyard and to dump the cards in my hand for a creature that isn't being cast doesn't excite me. I like the 1/1 flier and that it's a zombie but it's too much.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
@jackad7, nice list! just a question, will you replace grisly salvage with cathartic reunion once its out, or provide other slot for that?
for thoughts: Haunting Dead's ability can be triggered at instant speed while Dregscape Zombie is only at sorcery speed, this is helpful in triggering Prized Amalgam at opponent's turn so we can attack with it on our turn.
i like 1 of Darkblast in my MB, sometimes i do darkblast my own Gravecrawler or Bloodghast to recur them again to hit our graveyard triggers.
@jackad7, nice list! just a question, will you replace grisly salvage with cathartic reunion once its out, or provide other slot for that?
for thoughts: Haunting Dead's ability can be triggered at instant speed while Dregscape Zombie is only at sorcery speed, this is helpful in triggering Prized Amalgam at opponent's turn so we can attack with it on our turn.
i like 1 of Darkblast in my MB, sometimes i do darkblast my own Gravecrawler or Bloodghast to recur them again to hit our graveyard triggers.
Haunting dead sounds tempting but the downside is If I'm struggling in the late game to get something going I have to have two cards to make it work. I'm definitely considering it but I wrestle over the card loss. I'll probably playtest around with and see how I feel.
The darbkblast with gravecrawler/blooghast is a really good idea. You can get two plays off of one gravecrawler.
As for Carhartic reunion I'm not sure. I don't think I will unless I see convincing evidence from others. Grisly salvage is just too reliable, If I find I can make the deck more reliable from the graveyard cathartic reunion would be crazy but Like I mentioned earlier I'm still struggling setting the graveyard off.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
As for Carhartic reunion I'm not sure. I don't think I will unless I see convincing evidence from others. Grisly salvage is just too reliable, If I find I can make the deck more reliable from the graveyard cathartic reunion would be crazy but Like I mentioned earlier I'm still struggling setting the graveyard off.
previously i tried using tormenting voice but i didn't feel good about it, what i like with grisly salvage is that it has a higher chance to hit a creature or a land, but i'm hesistant to run it because of its BG mana cost, my deck is more of a B/R color now and i might get mana problems if i run it. i will surely try cathartic reunion and start with a 3-copy of it. with it's 3-draw i hope it can give us a higher chance of getting a creature from it.
glad to hear that! from your last 2 post, i've thought that you no longer love our hasty vegetable
it seems the modern field right now have adjusted and sideboarded more gy hate, how do we fight against this now? i cant recall if this was discussed here post SOI. sideboarding is much easier pre SOI but now there are to many dedicated slots in the deck
i'm back to playing a full playset of lotleth troll to fight against this hate, im expecting loltroll to have more board appearance with the help from cathartic reunion.
for haunted dead, i do use a copy of this card for an additional trigger for amalgam and gravecrawler.
i haven't miss the imp because of it's flying or dredge capability but i do miss it's deathtouch for defensive reasons.
for the haunted dead, i haven't tested it yet in my LGS, i only played with a friend and a few goldfishing. without haunted dead, i find myself relying in prized amalgam as a zombie board presence for gravecrawler to be casted from our graveyard, i seldom have a lotleth troll or another gravecrawler in my hand maybe because of dredge instead of drawing (we need to draw sometimes for this), having another zombie that can come from graveyard will help amalgam and gravecrawler triggers.
for #1: i also experience this that's why i'm adding haunted dead, not sure if 1 or 2 copies, but for now, i use 1 copy of this card.
for #2: no idea what happened why you ended up with this scenario, before adding haunted dead i'm playing with a conflagrate mainboard and i can normally discard 3 cards for it's flashback.
Unless Gravecrawler 5-8 gets printed, it just feels strictly worse than dredge when it comes to aggro. Right now I'm thinking it would be strongest as a midrange (leaning towards aggro) deck with utility spells that help the gameplan (lightning axe, darkblast, collective brutality, etc.)
I playtested an all in (dredgeless) aggro version with the Varolz + Shadow combo dumped in. I didn't really expect it to work (it didn't) even with 2 lead the stampede and playsets of looting and salvage. On average, it was a turn too slow and would overkill the last turn.
I've been slowly reworking it a few cards at a time and this is where I'm at right now
4 vine
4 crawler
4 Lotleth
2 grim Flayer (as troll 5&6 kinda)
4 birds of paradise
3 varolz
3 deaths shadow
3 bloodghast
2 flamewake phoenix (haven't tested yet, used to be 1 ghast and 1 collective Brutality
4 looting
4 salvage
1 darkblast
1 brutality
2 lightning axe
19 lands, fetch/shock/basic pool
Haven't had any mana issues yet
Any suggestions?
(This is just a for fun deck and something to use against newer players in my group. I bring Dredge to tournaments)
gravecrawler x4
lotleth troll x4
satyr wayfinder x4
prized amalgam x4
bloodghast x4
golgari grave troll x3
vengevine x4
grisly salvage x4
sinister concoction x3
darkblast x1
life from the loam x1
+19 lands
have 5 more slots to complete the deck, some cards i'm looking to include are:
-birds of paradise
-gurmag angler
-collective brutality
anyway, for competitiveness, yes please disregard may last post
for me, no:
it's another can't block creature, card slots for the deck is too tight, i would choose haunted dead over this for the slot. same 2-mana activation cost, a zombie and also a graveyard enabler
I'd play:
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Bournat Courier
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Faithless Looting
4 Vengevine
4 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
20 Lands
Quadlazer, here we come.
Yeah this is for sure really good, it's a creature we can fling out on turn one (for a COLORLESS) and get some card advantage of. That being said, this card seems pretty dead later in the game, he'll wall into stuff.
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
Read your own signature and I think you'll understand why that's not so relevant for this deck.
GB Midrange HomebrewBG
Modern
Affinity X
EDH
Jarad, Golgari Lich LordBG
i also think that this card would push golgari thug as the second dredge card of choice instead of stinkweed imp in order to have a higher chance of casting 2-creatures at turn 3 and 4 for vengevine requirement
no plans yet, i mean if we plan to use catharic reunion alongside with conflagrate or haunted dead then we'll definitely need to have life from the loam in order to replenish our hand.
4 Vengevine
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
Enabler Creatures(15):
4 Lotleth troll
4 Insolent neonate
4 Golgari Grave-troll
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Faithless looting
3 Grisly Salvage
1 Murderous Cut
1 Life from the Loam
Lands(20):
4 Overgrown tomb
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Blackcleave cliffs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Uborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 ancient Grudge
2 Darkblast
2 Murderous Cut
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
So I went 3-1-1 last night.
Round one- Infect 1-2
G1:L He was on the play and I had no removal, by the time I had a decent game going he wrecked me
+2 Darkblast +2 Abrupt decay -1 Loam -3 Grisly Salvage
G2:W I started out with a t1 dredge off of neonate and a darkblast in hand and he conceded by turn 3
G3:L I had both my darkblasts and was picking his creatures off one at a time while filling my graveyard until he got out pendelhaven and the game stalled for about three turns where I had a about 60-70% of my deck in my graveyard and I couldn't topdeck a land, zombie, or red enabler to kick off my graveyard and he answered all my removal.
Round two- Bring to light Scapeshift 2-1
G1:L I was just way too slow, opening hand was kind of a durdle
+2 Gnaw to the bone +2 Ghost Quarter
G2:W Fast start and I gnawed to the bone for 16 and beat him down, won the game after he used supreme verdict and I eot used ghost quarter on my own land to trigger bloodghst and amalgam at the end of his turn for the game
G3:W Don't remember this one too well other than that I used gnaw to gain a bunch of life again and havng a pretty fast start.
Round three- Jund 2-1
G1:W His start seemed fairly slow and I was able to dredge pretty well and beat down with bloodghasts
+1 erebos, God of the Dead +2 Murderous cut +2 Gnaw to the bone +1 Vengeful Pharoah -2 Stinkweed Imp -1 Golgari Grave-troll -1 Prized Amalgam -1 Grisly Salvage
G2:L T1 he took my lotleth troll and then scavenging ooze sealed the deal.
G3:W This was a lot more tough but I was able to slowly gain advantage on him and eventually was able to have 2 gravecrawlers 2 Prized amalgams 2 vengevines 3 bloodghasts and erebos out to swing at his raging ravine and 2 goyfs.
Round four- Jund 2-1
G1:W Similar to the last game, slow start for him and I was just too resilient.
+1 erebos, God of the Dead +2 Murderous cut +2 Gnaw to the bone +1 Vengeful Pharoah -2 Stinkweed Imp -1 Golgari Grave-troll -1 Prized Amalgam -1 Grisly Salvage
G2:L He had a Nihl spellbomb which wasn't the end of the world but it hurt and I was struggling after he took my troll.
G3:W Wasn't an overly fast game but I was able to wither him down with small guys while fillng up my graveyard, gnaw gave me some breating room and bloodghasts with hase gave me the game
Round Five- Nahiri (1-1) (we drew to top 8 but played for fun)
G1:W Won off of resilience
G2:L I durdled way too long, I missed amalgam triggers twice and wasn't overly aggressive in my play, that being said I still lost.
T8- Nahiri(0-2)
G1: Good game but I was a tad too slow and he had too much removal before I could get to his Nahiri
G2: I had two faithless lootings and a neonate in a 6 card hand with no lands, being a little overly confident in my deck I kept and ate it with 3 turns of no lands before I conceded. Lets not speak of this.
Overall I felt great about the deck, I think I definitely need a better card to launch out of the graveyard. I'm thinkin the one mana unearth zombie so I can go off without having to draw. The Amalgams feel great and the neonate does too but I still think I'm too dead when I straight dredge. I also need to remember those amalgam triggers, I missed them on numerous occasions, luckily it didn't really matter but it still was pretty painful when I realized I missed them. I also realize in the jund matchup I probably should have kept the stinkweed imps for blockers and switched out more grave-trolls.
As for
Cathartic Reunion- it's good but I keep getting stuck on the fact that it dies in the yard, I want to be able to pour my deck out and not look back.
Bomat Courier-- Dead in the yard, and it's really a hinderance in triggering vengevine, t2 I want to play salvage or lotleth troll and when I still have to pay 1 get any benefit out of this I'm not sure how much I like it. I feel like it has to be treated as a 2cmc and at that point I still like grisly salvage better because it's more reliable. I do like the colorless and potential for massive card advantage but I'm not sure it fits (with me at least).
Haunted dead- I'm not a fan of this, I usually find myself with one or no cards later in the game completely playing my graveyard and to dump the cards in my hand for a creature that isn't being cast doesn't excite me. I like the 1/1 flier and that it's a zombie but it's too much.
Changes I'm think of making:
+2 Dregscape Zombie -1 Murderous cut -1 Prized Amalgam
+1 Darkblast -1 Murderous cut (mainboard)
Thoughts?
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
for thoughts:
Haunting Dead's ability can be triggered at instant speed while Dregscape Zombie is only at sorcery speed, this is helpful in triggering Prized Amalgam at opponent's turn so we can attack with it on our turn.
i like 1 of Darkblast in my MB, sometimes i do darkblast my own Gravecrawler or Bloodghast to recur them again to hit our graveyard triggers.
Haunting dead sounds tempting but the downside is If I'm struggling in the late game to get something going I have to have two cards to make it work. I'm definitely considering it but I wrestle over the card loss. I'll probably playtest around with and see how I feel.
The darbkblast with gravecrawler/blooghast is a really good idea. You can get two plays off of one gravecrawler.
As for Carhartic reunion I'm not sure. I don't think I will unless I see convincing evidence from others. Grisly salvage is just too reliable, If I find I can make the deck more reliable from the graveyard cathartic reunion would be crazy but Like I mentioned earlier I'm still struggling setting the graveyard off.
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
previously i tried using tormenting voice but i didn't feel good about it, what i like with grisly salvage is that it has a higher chance to hit a creature or a land, but i'm hesistant to run it because of its BG mana cost, my deck is more of a B/R color now and i might get mana problems if i run it. i will surely try cathartic reunion and start with a 3-copy of it. with it's 3-draw i hope it can give us a higher chance of getting a creature from it.
speaking of haunted dead, i tried goldfishing the deck and it seems not a good idea to have both haunted dead and cathartic reunion board in at the same time.
just a question: since your deck plays like a normal dredge deck, are you still using a playset of vengevine?
it seems the modern field right now have adjusted and sideboarded more gy hate, how do we fight against this now? i cant recall if this was discussed here post SOI. sideboarding is much easier pre SOI but now there are to many dedicated slots in the deck
i'm back to playing a full playset of lotleth troll to fight against this hate, im expecting loltroll to have more board appearance with the help from cathartic reunion.