I can't understand why pros are being so "unfair" with this deck, I mean, is this deck that bad? I don't think so, is there any reason for saying that?
The only thing I can think of is that it requires a completely different way of approaching decks, deckbuilding, and playing the game. Perhaps they’re simply not used to the Dredge way of thinking?
Y'know, this just sort of hit me recently, and I haven't tested it, but: Would it at all work to have copies of Lingering Souls in deck as an uncastable-from-hand option for long-game, evasive guys? I don't know where it might help, but it seems like it could be at least decent against some decks.
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"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Y'know, this just sort of hit me recently, and I haven't tested it, but: Would it at all work to have copies of Lingering Souls in deck as an uncastable-from-hand option for long-game, evasive guys? I don't know where it might help, but it seems like it could be at least decent against some decks.
Not really, would only be good for blocking. Long-game evasive I fall back on Flamewake phoneix, more resilient.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
hi guys, I'm currently using the all-in list and I feel that I'm not getting enough value out of lotleth troll, I observe that it normally goes to the graveyard from dredging, what you think about replacing lotleth troll x4 with stitchwing skaab x3.
I havent tested the skaab yet as I dont have the card right now but I think skaab can take multiple roles as discard engine / amalgam enabler / a zombie for gravecrawlers and has graveyard value.
The thing I've seen with Lotleth Troll is that, while it's useless in GY, when you do get it out it can be spectacular. It's a high-risk card, but the reward is ridiculous and really just supercharges our deck in a way few other cards do. (See the responses earlier regarding when I asked Rotting Rats vs Troll.
That said, I am going to test the Skaab -- maybe instead of a few Bloodghasts, which have seemed underwhelming lately.
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"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
yes it would slow down the deck if you use a tapped land. we like to have a red mana in our opening hand that comes to play untapped so we can cast faithless looting or insolent neonate turn1. For budget restrictions I suggest to use city of brass or other pain lands instead of dragonskull summit.
I haven't played a ton of this deck yet, only watched TWoo play it on his channel; tons of games, very few losses
My thoughts on the Skaab is that it could help vs decks that want to remove threats like Lotleth Troll that are hard to bring back? Or decks that have more flying.? I also like Ghoulsteed as a recursion target, but Fatestitcher and Rotting Rats are probably just better, and probably just in the main as 1-ofs.
@Sodek's Decklist, I notice very little removal, but this seems to be the trend. This is not how I play as I like my cuts and decays. Has anyone else tried the low/no removal route?
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
Why u ever want to cut one of the best creature in deck? Troll does everything - discard outlet, enabler to cast Gravecrawler from grave, evasive, big, can protect itself. It gives us game after grave hate. In my opinion It's too good to cut.
Thoughtseize was a mandatory card when the meta contained both Bloom Titan and Twin. Since both those decks are now a distant memory, it is my opinion that the deck no longer needs to concern itself with such cards. They take up valuable sideboard slots that could be used on better items.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Skitzafreak - how do you deal with big mana decks like tron / RG Valakut / BTL Scapeshift. Most of these decks have access to either anger, relic or both (or some other forms of defense), often in the main. I dont think ghost quarter is a sufficient answer, and dont think racing them is either (though certainly viable, not all the time). I felt like thoughtseize was key for this reason alone.
I guess what i'm really asking - what's your board look like? What replaces thoughtseize?
I play Dredgevine the same way I play Manaless Dredge in Legacy. If they have the hate to beat me, I lose the game. If they don't, I obliterate them. I have never liked having slots for cards that either:
A) Do nothing when you Dredge them or mill them in some way
OR
B) Further your plan to pitch your deck into your graveyard
As an example, Lotleth Troll is definitely garbage when you mill it in some way, as it does nothing except maybe give GGT another +1/+1 counter if you ever get to that stage of the game. But Thoughtseize doesn't fill either role. Hell if I was really concerned with Anger, I'd put something like Leyline of Vitality in the board since most of the creatures will survive with that 1 toughness boost.
Obviously if your way of playing doesn't line up with my playstyle, you won't think the same way I do
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. And for the feedback. My version probably doesn't have the grind factor that Dredge Vine has, you're probably right. Even though my starts have been pretty explosive in preliminary testing.
In view of Jinlin Li getting to day 2 of GPLA, how's our matchup against Mill? Do they do the work for us or is it extremely dangerous to have someone control our graveyard?
It depends on what they draw - if they keep a hand without one or two of the lock pieces sometimes they accelerate us right into hasty vengevines x4 on turn 3. However they also play profane memento, crypt incursion and ensnaring bridge so I think the matchup is quite tough. We get abrupt decay and ancient grudge out of the sideboard for the first and third ones but a resolved crypt incursion is usually gg
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Modern Dredge (117-70 W/L in games) (Pre-GGT ban: 103-70 W/L in games)
I saw some of you are already thinking about the Bloodghast/Amalgam Dredge and I was wondering if there can be mixture of Dredgevine and those new Dredge Decks. I actually have never played Dredgevine before, but I played both Legacy Dredge and the new Modern Dredgelists.
The Problems some of you mentioned (I have only read the last 3 pages) are the consistency and the gravehate. What if we cut all the slow cards and add more Dredgers and Enablers. For example, we could play about 15 Enablers like 4 Tome Scour, 4 Insolent Neonate, 4 Faithless Looting, 3 Burning Inquiry. This makes more of our hands keepable, because if you have Dredger + Enabler, we are in the game. This probably doesn't count for Burning Inquiry, but even with this card it can happen.
The next step is to add more Dredgers. Probably something like 4 Stinkweed Imp, 4 GGT, 2 Loam, 2 Darkblast or something. This makes sure that we often have a Dredger. What does a Dredgevine Deck do, if there are no Vengevines in the Grave ?
Now to the free creatures: The strongest one is vengevine, so this is a clear 4 of. The Enabler for the Vengevines are 4 Gravecrawlers, which can be "activated" by 4 Amalgams and 3-4 Fatestitcher. We probably also want 4 Narcomoeba to get free Amalgams.
With 2 Mana, Fatestitcher, 2 Gravecrawler and x Vengevines, we can get everything back from the Graveyard. This and the low cost Enablers allow us to play 16-17 lands I think, if not fewer.
This probably can beat Scooze or RiP, because they are too slow. If we start with some power on the board, we have enough tempo. It might also be better vs Relic, because we have more enablers we just force them to pop it and then we can (more often) start all over again. Still, with my current Dredgelist I want 4 Thoughtseize in the Board to take whatever hate they present.
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Now does anyone have a good build to abuse Varloz with? Right now I just hope they don't block and hit them with infect.
The only thing I can think of is that it requires a completely different way of approaching decks, deckbuilding, and playing the game. Perhaps they’re simply not used to the Dredge way of thinking?
I Stream MTGO on Twitch: broodwarjc
I also post recordings of those streams on Youtube: broodwarjcavidgamer
Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
End of the Video Brad had gone 3-2 with the deck, winning every post board match up against Affinity iirc.
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
Spells - 6
4 Faithless Looting
2 Life from the Loam
4 Bloodghast
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine
2 Rotting Rats
4 Ancient Grudge
3 Darkblast
3 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Golgari Charm
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Tormod's Crypt
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
I havent tested the skaab yet as I dont have the card right now but I think skaab can take multiple roles as discard engine / amalgam enabler / a zombie for gravecrawlers and has graveyard value.
This is the decklist of what I have in mind:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 City Of Brass
3 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Mana Confluence
1 Watery Grave
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
4 Vengevine
4 Gravecrawler
4 Bloodghast
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Insolent Neonate
3 Stitchwing Skaab
4 Faithless Looting
2 Tormenting Voice
That said, I am going to test the Skaab -- maybe instead of a few Bloodghasts, which have seemed underwhelming lately.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
would dragonskull summit cause me many trouble ?
the list I have in mind is the following
4 bloodstained mire
3 dragonskull summit
3 blood crypt
3 overgrown tomb
1 forest
1 swamp
1 mountain
4 golgari grave-troll
4 gravecrawler
4 vengevine
4 stinkweed imp
3 lotleth troll
4 prized amalgam
4 insolent neonate
4 bloodghast
2 satyr wayfinder
1 rotting rats
1 life from the loam
1 gnaw to the bone
3 ancient grudge
1 darkblast
2 gnaw to the bone
3 abrupt decay
3 thoughtseize
1 golgari charm
2 lightning axe
4 Gravecrawler
4 Hedron Crab
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Vengevine
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
3 Stinkweed Imp
4 Faithless Looting
1 Lightning Axe
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Polluted Delta
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Dakmor Salvage
Sideboard (15)
1 Lightning Axe
3 Natural State
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Darkblast
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Stitchwing Skaab
Personally I like playing Hedron Crab and ton of fetchlands. It increases deck's speed and consistency.
My thoughts on the Skaab is that it could help vs decks that want to remove threats like Lotleth Troll that are hard to bring back? Or decks that have more flying.? I also like Ghoulsteed as a recursion target, but Fatestitcher and Rotting Rats are probably just better, and probably just in the main as 1-ofs.
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I play Dredgevine the same way I play Manaless Dredge in Legacy. If they have the hate to beat me, I lose the game. If they don't, I obliterate them. I have never liked having slots for cards that either:
A) Do nothing when you Dredge them or mill them in some way
OR
B) Further your plan to pitch your deck into your graveyard
As an example, Lotleth Troll is definitely garbage when you mill it in some way, as it does nothing except maybe give GGT another +1/+1 counter if you ever get to that stage of the game. But Thoughtseize doesn't fill either role. Hell if I was really concerned with Anger, I'd put something like Leyline of Vitality in the board since most of the creatures will survive with that 1 toughness boost.
Obviously if your way of playing doesn't line up with my playstyle, you won't think the same way I do
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Narcomoeba
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Bloodghast
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
Spells (15):
4 Bridge from Below
4 Faithless looting
4 Burning Inquiry
1 Lightning Axe
1 Rally the Peasants
1 Conflagrate
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded foothills
3 Stomping Ground
6 Mountain
3 Hooting Mandrils
3 Ancient grudge
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Life from the Loam
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Ray of Revelation
Sideboard would need some serious work. And I'm really iffy on the Burning Inquiry. But it seems like it could generate some great value here.
Draft My Cube!
Draft My Cube!
It depends on what they draw - if they keep a hand without one or two of the lock pieces sometimes they accelerate us right into hasty vengevines x4 on turn 3. However they also play profane memento, crypt incursion and ensnaring bridge so I think the matchup is quite tough. We get abrupt decay and ancient grudge out of the sideboard for the first and third ones but a resolved crypt incursion is usually gg
The Problems some of you mentioned (I have only read the last 3 pages) are the consistency and the gravehate. What if we cut all the slow cards and add more Dredgers and Enablers. For example, we could play about 15 Enablers like 4 Tome Scour, 4 Insolent Neonate, 4 Faithless Looting, 3 Burning Inquiry. This makes more of our hands keepable, because if you have Dredger + Enabler, we are in the game. This probably doesn't count for Burning Inquiry, but even with this card it can happen.
The next step is to add more Dredgers. Probably something like 4 Stinkweed Imp, 4 GGT, 2 Loam, 2 Darkblast or something. This makes sure that we often have a Dredger. What does a Dredgevine Deck do, if there are no Vengevines in the Grave ?
Now to the free creatures: The strongest one is vengevine, so this is a clear 4 of. The Enabler for the Vengevines are 4 Gravecrawlers, which can be "activated" by 4 Amalgams and 3-4 Fatestitcher. We probably also want 4 Narcomoeba to get free Amalgams.
With 2 Mana, Fatestitcher, 2 Gravecrawler and x Vengevines, we can get everything back from the Graveyard. This and the low cost Enablers allow us to play 16-17 lands I think, if not fewer.
This probably can beat Scooze or RiP, because they are too slow. If we start with some power on the board, we have enough tempo. It might also be better vs Relic, because we have more enablers we just force them to pop it and then we can (more often) start all over again. Still, with my current Dredgelist I want 4 Thoughtseize in the Board to take whatever hate they present.