mapccu, there's two considerations when it comes to the question of what would make Merfolk way more powerful and a regular tier 1 contender:
-I do think 1 more really powerful card would go a long way, as the current list is quite tight. So it's not like we're looking at our options and coming up short. The deck only has a few flex slots. True-name nemesis or a card of similar power level would be insane in Modern. It would certainly make Merfolk way more powerful. Taking a step down, a card at the power level of kitesail or thalia would still be very powerful, I think. Really, another 2 mana merfolk with a useful ability that changes the board state or makes it harder to interact with our creatures would do a lot. Another 2-mana lord is probably too much to ask for, but that would obviously improve the consistency of the deck considerably. Hell, if Branchwalker were blue instead of green, I think you'd see everyone jamming it into their mono-blue decks and feeling pretty happy.
-With that said, it's hard to imagine a card that would address the central weakness of Merfolk, which is that it's a creature heavy deck that is weak to sweepers and other efficient removal (such as Valakut triggers). Decks that have easy ways to clear the board are always going to be tough for Merfolk to deal with, as we will always be a synergy based deck where any individual creature doesn't hit the power level of, say, Tarmogoyf, in a vacuum.
At the end of the day, UG offers the following:
-It lowers the curve of the deck, goldfishing turn 4 kills much more reliably than mono-blue. While Mono-Blue can get turn 4 kills, it is much more likely to goldfish kills on turn 5. Not every Turn 4 kill is Aether Vial into Lord into Lord into Lord. It's fine to curve out with some Speakers and Branchwalkers backed up by a couple lords.
-It gives up Master of Waves, which makes it harder to play "catch up". Sometimes I'm playing Mono-Blue against an attrition deck like Junk, and I think I'm way behind, only to top deck a Master of Waves with, say a Cursecatcher and a couple Seas on the board, and suddenly I'm generating 4 Elemental Tokens and back in the lead. UG is going to have fewer times when it has those magic outs.
-It plays a shakier mana-base. UG is playing 1-2 fewer lands and need to find green sources, which is surprisingly annoying if you're still jamming 4 Mutavaults in your deck. The result is you're not as likely to get double U when you need it, you may occasionally whiff on finding a green source, you take some more incidental damage from your lands, and you make yourself weaker to Blood Moon.
In short, my feeling about UG is that versus decks where Master of Waves feels like an all-star you're going to feel it, and versus decks where you'd be siding it out anyway, you're going to be happy to have more efficient creatures in its place. I actually don't think UG needs to really be less reactive. My list cut 4 Master of Waves, 2 lands, and 2 Kira to make room for the green creatures. I wouldn't call any of those cards particularly reactive; rather they give you more staying power in the long-game. I still play plenty of matches where I side into a ton of permission and plop down a few Merfolk while holding up dispel, negate, or relic vs the like of Storm, Ad Naseum, and Living End.
I do admit that I find it strange that many people are taking out Cursecatcher in some builds lately. I understand that the U/G build of Merfolk has more value for Kumena's Speaker in it's 1 drop place. I've also thinking that one of these days to switch out Cursecatcher for Cosi's Trickster to see has it does.
Is it too greedy to run 4 Aether Vial, 4 Curse Catchers, 4 Kumena's Speaker. Shave Meerow Reejery down to a 2-of as the curve topper, and shave lands down to 18? I feel like this can make us extremely stream-lined as we only need 2-3 lands to function anyway. Maybe use extra slots for MD dismembers, spell pierce, or phantasmal image.
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Is it too greedy to run 4 Aether Vial, 4 Curse Catchers, 4 Kumena's Speaker. Shave Meerow Reejery down to a 2-of as the curve topper, and shave lands down to 18? I feel like this can make us extremely stream-lined as we only need 2-3 lands to function anyway. Maybe use extra slots for MD dismembers, spell pierce, or phantasmal image.
Yeah I'm not keen on cutting Cursecatcher, especially when we don't have a way to interact with some spells. Going down to 18 I think will mean upping on Phantasmal Image to possibly replace some numbers of Reejerey, which I think has a lot more value in a lower curve coping a lord or Silvergil/Branch.
Again, I still think the optimal UG list has yet to be found, and I still think it's one card away from being pegged as the way to go for fish from now on.
Is it too greedy to run 4 Aether Vial, 4 Curse Catchers, 4 Kumena's Speaker. Shave Meerow Reejery down to a 2-of as the curve topper, and shave lands down to 18? I feel like this can make us extremely stream-lined as we only need 2-3 lands to function anyway. Maybe use extra slots for MD dismembers, spell pierce, or phantasmal image.
I don't think it's too greedy. Not sure you have to shave Reej down to 2 copies, though - I think it all fits provided you trim to 18 land (and I think you should - you're looking at curving out at 3).
Is it too greedy to run 4 Aether Vial, 4 Curse Catchers, 4 Kumena's Speaker. Shave Meerow Reejery down to a 2-of as the curve topper, and shave lands down to 18? I feel like this can make us extremely stream-lined as we only need 2-3 lands to function anyway. Maybe use extra slots for MD dismembers, spell pierce, or phantasmal image.
I don't think it's too greedy. Not sure you have to shave Reej down to 2 copies, though - I think it all fits provided you trim to 18 land (and I think you should - you're looking at curving out at 3).
Here is my current build. It works well in testing so far. Not sure if I should have 3 or 4 Mutavaults. SB is also in progress. Opinions? Not sure if spell pierce or dismember is better MD.
Question: in the UG build, how often do you guys keep one land hands?
When I played with 20 lands I almost never kept one land hands because it was too risky. The only card that made me snap keep them was aether vial. Aside from that, our deck does almost nothing with one land in play. Not only that, but if you keep a one lander and draw the second land by the fourth turn or foward, the game is probably over too.
I ask that because I see people cutting to 19 or 18 lands, and that seems like it will increase the number of risky one landers. This will in turn force you to mulligan more, and since we are a critical mass deck, mulligan is usually bad (even though U/G has more cantrips to try and combat that). I saw a couple of Nikachu's games playing 19 lands and he did have to mulligan a good amount, and kept more sketchy hands.
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It depends on a lot of things:
- seven cards without Vial is almost always a mull (maybe Breeding Pool + 2 Kumena or Kumena + Dismember)
- do I know if I am playing against grindy matchup
- if that one land is Muta, def mull
- am I on 15 1-drops version (4 CC, 4 Kumena, 4 Vial, 3 Dismember) or have more 3-drops like Reej
and so on.
UG has reached a point where mull is not the end of the world, and for every mull we will have another gas topdeck in another game (less lands, more manipulation).
I won many tournaments with 19 land - 4 Waves MonoU version, where I had something about 8-10 mulls per tournament, but gas just kept coming that it didn't matter. Possibly subjective.
I don't think much has changed when it comes to keeping 1-landers. You're still going to mulligan on 7 pretty much every time with only 1 land and no Aether vial. So yeah, with 18 land it is going to be slightly more common that you need to mulligan.
After a mulligan to 6, I am a lot more likely to keep a 1 land hand with no Aether vial, especially if I have a 1-drop, the land is an island/ug source, and I'm on the draw. And at 5, the range of hands I will keep is extremely wide.
I know what you are thinking but that is probably a reprint for Rivals and I expect this cycle for Vamps, Pirates and Dinos.
Since power level from a creature side is too low, and U version wouldn't play more 4-drops than a set of Waves, UG version would probably fare better with Lead the Stampede, I don't see it crossing Standard into Modern.
Goblins can use Ringleaders better since "removal" Incinerator and even Tarfire are a Goblin, while we use too many nonMerfolk.
what is the view point/ strengths and weaknesses of using Fetch lands and no fetch lands for the green splash
Fetchlands cause more damage (especially if you need to fetch-shock), which can make you vulnerable to aggro and unable to easily afford to cast Dismember or other relevant things. Running Cavern and Unclaimed can make it more likely that you lack G (and sometimes U) for the non-creature spells, especially Sideboard cards.
Your first setup only has 10 land to cast any blue interaction and even less for green interaction that you may bring out of the sideboard which is probably too few. I'm thinking setup number 2 is closer to where we want to be. Possibly cutting 1 fetch or 1 Mutavault for a Cavern of Souls. I know there isn't a lot of counter magic out there, but I do think there are enough Chalice of the Voids out of Eldrazi tron to warrant one.
Played with a friend last night, against Counter Company. 1-6 to him.
Theres no way to beat the combo without Dismember main deck. I tried race him, dispel him, everything, but the combo always happened.
I hate that deck, far more than any other right now.
Hey. Sharing my experience in terms of sideboard with you: I don't think counterspells are effective. I know that basically all lists of merfolk play counterspells on the sideboard, but I truly believe that is a mistake. Counterspells will only be good if you draw a very specific well-balanced sequence of pressure + counter.
My suggestion is to move away from counters and use sideboard cards that impact the board. I would go something like this:
The idea here is simple: have sideboard cards that help in multiple matchups. Relic is good against: storm, snapcaster decks, dredge. Needle is good against: various builds of tron, counters company, planeswalkers, affinity. Natural state is good against: affinity, lantern control, some builds of death and taxes, blood moon* and ensnaring bridge decks. Master of waves is good against: grixis death shadow, burn, other low-to-the-ground creature decks, such as humans and zoo, and grindier matchups overall. The forest is there assuming that your list plays 19 lands, you bring it in for when you board master of waves as additional land, or swap a mutavault for it when you bring natural state. When bringing master of waves, I would suggest cutting some of the green spells due to the devotion considerations, so why would you have a forest you may ask? Well, because of blood moon. If it isn't prevalent enough in your meta, then just swap it for another dual (cavern, unclaimed territory, breeding pool, etc.).
*If you don't have a basic forest, natural state is basically a counterspell against blood moon. You need to float green mana and destroy it in response.
I also think fog is a legitimate sideboard option, depending on how aggressive is your meta.
Finally, I don't think the list should have dismember. I've had that discussion before here, but I believe dismember is only good against big creature decks like death's shadow and e-tron (and, sometimes, affinity). Most other decks will replace the creature that you kill, be it company, storm, knightfall, or whatever. Their threat density is much greater than our removal density, so the only way dismember is effective is, once again, if you have enough pressure on board and it can buy that one crucial turn for you. I don't think that is a good sideboard option to have (Nikachu, for instance, has been playing without dismember and sees no problem with it).
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I can't agree with that sideboard.
Dredge and Living End are good matchups (or at least even if you know what to do), grindy decks are also fine, while Storm can go to the Empty plan or Spree our stuff. That makes 4 Relic 1 too many.
Needle is especially meh (except with Devoted Druid) since we have to predict correctly or they get value (Tron can blow up Stone, or activate Ugin/Karn; we usually kill walkers without problem to justify bringing Needle (except Ugin); what do we name against Affinity? Plating and Ravager are the same card and there is also Overseer. we could still die to Master of Etherium, Signal Pest, Whipflare and Ghirapur Æther Grid to waste our time in trying to slow them down, instead of going aggro. I would rather play Sorcerous Spyglass, maybe 2 copies.
If we play Cavern/Unclaimed Territory instead of Fetch/Shock mana, then we have to really think about including green sideboard cards.
Dismember needs to be in 75, it is great against most highly played decks. Some decks are just quicker than us and ignoring Baral or Steel Overseer, by playing no interaction, isn't good for winning the tournament.
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-I do think 1 more really powerful card would go a long way, as the current list is quite tight. So it's not like we're looking at our options and coming up short. The deck only has a few flex slots. True-name nemesis or a card of similar power level would be insane in Modern. It would certainly make Merfolk way more powerful. Taking a step down, a card at the power level of kitesail or thalia would still be very powerful, I think. Really, another 2 mana merfolk with a useful ability that changes the board state or makes it harder to interact with our creatures would do a lot. Another 2-mana lord is probably too much to ask for, but that would obviously improve the consistency of the deck considerably. Hell, if Branchwalker were blue instead of green, I think you'd see everyone jamming it into their mono-blue decks and feeling pretty happy.
-With that said, it's hard to imagine a card that would address the central weakness of Merfolk, which is that it's a creature heavy deck that is weak to sweepers and other efficient removal (such as Valakut triggers). Decks that have easy ways to clear the board are always going to be tough for Merfolk to deal with, as we will always be a synergy based deck where any individual creature doesn't hit the power level of, say, Tarmogoyf, in a vacuum.
At the end of the day, UG offers the following:
-It lowers the curve of the deck, goldfishing turn 4 kills much more reliably than mono-blue. While Mono-Blue can get turn 4 kills, it is much more likely to goldfish kills on turn 5. Not every Turn 4 kill is Aether Vial into Lord into Lord into Lord. It's fine to curve out with some Speakers and Branchwalkers backed up by a couple lords.
-It gives up Master of Waves, which makes it harder to play "catch up". Sometimes I'm playing Mono-Blue against an attrition deck like Junk, and I think I'm way behind, only to top deck a Master of Waves with, say a Cursecatcher and a couple Seas on the board, and suddenly I'm generating 4 Elemental Tokens and back in the lead. UG is going to have fewer times when it has those magic outs.
-It plays a shakier mana-base. UG is playing 1-2 fewer lands and need to find green sources, which is surprisingly annoying if you're still jamming 4 Mutavaults in your deck. The result is you're not as likely to get double U when you need it, you may occasionally whiff on finding a green source, you take some more incidental damage from your lands, and you make yourself weaker to Blood Moon.
In short, my feeling about UG is that versus decks where Master of Waves feels like an all-star you're going to feel it, and versus decks where you'd be siding it out anyway, you're going to be happy to have more efficient creatures in its place. I actually don't think UG needs to really be less reactive. My list cut 4 Master of Waves, 2 lands, and 2 Kira to make room for the green creatures. I wouldn't call any of those cards particularly reactive; rather they give you more staying power in the long-game. I still play plenty of matches where I side into a ton of permission and plop down a few Merfolk while holding up dispel, negate, or relic vs the like of Storm, Ad Naseum, and Living End.
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Yeah I'm not keen on cutting Cursecatcher, especially when we don't have a way to interact with some spells. Going down to 18 I think will mean upping on Phantasmal Image to possibly replace some numbers of Reejerey, which I think has a lot more value in a lower curve coping a lord or Silvergil/Branch.
Again, I still think the optimal UG list has yet to be found, and I still think it's one card away from being pegged as the way to go for fish from now on.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
I don't think it's too greedy. Not sure you have to shave Reej down to 2 copies, though - I think it all fits provided you trim to 18 land (and I think you should - you're looking at curving out at 3).
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Here is my current build. It works well in testing so far. Not sure if I should have 3 or 4 Mutavaults. SB is also in progress. Opinions? Not sure if spell pierce or dismember is better MD.
// 4 Artifact
4 Aether Vial
// 32 Creature
4 Cursecatcher
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
// 4 Enchantment
4 Spreading Seas
// 2 Instant
2 Dismember
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Breeding Pool
1 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
3 Mutavault
// 3 Artifact
3 Relic of Progenitus
// 12 Instant
3 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Dispel
3 Natural State
3 Disdainful Stroke
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When I played with 20 lands I almost never kept one land hands because it was too risky. The only card that made me snap keep them was aether vial. Aside from that, our deck does almost nothing with one land in play. Not only that, but if you keep a one lander and draw the second land by the fourth turn or foward, the game is probably over too.
I ask that because I see people cutting to 19 or 18 lands, and that seems like it will increase the number of risky one landers. This will in turn force you to mulligan more, and since we are a critical mass deck, mulligan is usually bad (even though U/G has more cantrips to try and combat that). I saw a couple of Nikachu's games playing 19 lands and he did have to mulligan a good amount, and kept more sketchy hands.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
- seven cards without Vial is almost always a mull (maybe Breeding Pool + 2 Kumena or Kumena + Dismember)
- do I know if I am playing against grindy matchup
- if that one land is Muta, def mull
- am I on 15 1-drops version (4 CC, 4 Kumena, 4 Vial, 3 Dismember) or have more 3-drops like Reej
and so on.
UG has reached a point where mull is not the end of the world, and for every mull we will have another gas topdeck in another game (less lands, more manipulation).
I won many tournaments with 19 land - 4 Waves MonoU version, where I had something about 8-10 mulls per tournament, but gas just kept coming that it didn't matter. Possibly subjective.
After a mulligan to 6, I am a lot more likely to keep a 1 land hand with no Aether vial, especially if I have a 1-drop, the land is an island/ug source, and I'm on the draw. And at 5, the range of hands I will keep is extremely wide.
I know what you are thinking but that is probably a reprint for Rivals and I expect this cycle for Vamps, Pirates and Dinos.
Since power level from a creature side is too low, and U version wouldn't play more 4-drops than a set of Waves, UG version would probably fare better with Lead the Stampede, I don't see it crossing Standard into Modern.
Goblins can use Ringleaders better since "removal" Incinerator and even Tarfire are a Goblin, while we use too many nonMerfolk.
what is the view point/ strengths and weaknesses
of using Fetch lands and no fetch lands for the green splash
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Breeding Pool
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Island
3 Mutavault
2 Unclaimed Territory
Vs
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Breeding Pool
3 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Mutavault
3 Polluted Delta
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
Fetchlands cause more damage (especially if you need to fetch-shock), which can make you vulnerable to aggro and unable to easily afford to cast Dismember or other relevant things. Running Cavern and Unclaimed can make it more likely that you lack G (and sometimes U) for the non-creature spells, especially Sideboard cards.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Your first setup only has 10 land to cast any blue interaction and even less for green interaction that you may bring out of the sideboard which is probably too few. I'm thinking setup number 2 is closer to where we want to be. Possibly cutting 1 fetch or 1 Mutavault for a Cavern of Souls. I know there isn't a lot of counter magic out there, but I do think there are enough Chalice of the Voids out of Eldrazi tron to warrant one.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Theres no way to beat the combo without Dismember main deck. I tried race him, dispel him, everything, but the combo always happened.
I hate that deck, far more than any other right now.
My suggestion is to move away from counters and use sideboard cards that impact the board. I would go something like this:
4x pithing needle
3x natural state
3x master of waves
1x forest
*If you don't have a basic forest, natural state is basically a counterspell against blood moon. You need to float green mana and destroy it in response.
I also think fog is a legitimate sideboard option, depending on how aggressive is your meta.
Finally, I don't think the list should have dismember. I've had that discussion before here, but I believe dismember is only good against big creature decks like death's shadow and e-tron (and, sometimes, affinity). Most other decks will replace the creature that you kill, be it company, storm, knightfall, or whatever. Their threat density is much greater than our removal density, so the only way dismember is effective is, once again, if you have enough pressure on board and it can buy that one crucial turn for you. I don't think that is a good sideboard option to have (Nikachu, for instance, has been playing without dismember and sees no problem with it).
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Dredge and Living End are good matchups (or at least even if you know what to do), grindy decks are also fine, while Storm can go to the Empty plan or Spree our stuff. That makes 4 Relic 1 too many.
Needle is especially meh (except with Devoted Druid) since we have to predict correctly or they get value (Tron can blow up Stone, or activate Ugin/Karn; we usually kill walkers without problem to justify bringing Needle (except Ugin); what do we name against Affinity? Plating and Ravager are the same card and there is also Overseer. we could still die to Master of Etherium, Signal Pest, Whipflare and Ghirapur Æther Grid to waste our time in trying to slow them down, instead of going aggro. I would rather play Sorcerous Spyglass, maybe 2 copies.
If we play Cavern/Unclaimed Territory instead of Fetch/Shock mana, then we have to really think about including green sideboard cards.
Dismember needs to be in 75, it is great against most highly played decks. Some decks are just quicker than us and ignoring Baral or Steel Overseer, by playing no interaction, isn't good for winning the tournament.