I play 3x main deck dismember - made a huge difference vs Storm. The ug lists dont play it coz the mana base hurts them too much. Thats the difference.
Yeah, I can't recommend maindeck Dismember enough right now. Card just pulls its weight in this meta - it's bad against only a small handful of decks (Ad Nauseam, Burn, control - and even there I've been able to use it every once in a while), and we can simply side it out when facing them.
So it seems that adding in the green fellers is cutting room partially used for disruption. I've enjoyed testing those two out, but do feel somewhat naked with fewer that 2 counters or removal main. For those who are playing more, what are you cutting to fit in disruption besides Seas
Oh, and random trick I've learned. When stuck on mana, vialing in Branchwalker before the draw step lets you have some control over what you get
Yeah, that's one of the matchups where I'd expect it to struggle relative to the mono-U version. Better luck next time.
Why would you expect it to struggle more ? GU has similar amount of removal, faster clock, more cantrip to look for answers, same access to counterspells and GY hate, no super clunky useless 4 drops in game one – I see Mono U as the weaker shell here.
No Dismember main + only 1 Negate (Spell Pierce is pretty easy to ramp past) = losing to Storm. You can theorycraft about what should be in the list, I'm talking about what's actually in it.
As for the Storm matchup... my record against it with mono-U is actually pretty good. I'm 18-7 against it on MTGO leagues since adopting my 2 Dispel/2 Echoing Truth/4 Negate/4 Relic of Progenitus sideboard configuration. If you're struggling against it, I recommend that you adopt this plan - they may take Game 1, but you are the overwhelming favorite postboard.
So I played storm 3 times during the tournament. I want 2-1, 2-0, then finally 0-2 in the top 8. Honestly the top 8 match was the nuts. My opponent had 10 goblins on turn 2 on the play. There's not much U or U/G can do against that. I did have a spell pierce in hand, but lead with a turn 1 aether vial. Looking back holding up pierce is the right play, but I don't think I would have changed that. I was not respecting a turn 2 combo.
Game 2 in top 8 I had every piece of hate for storm along with vial and threats. I had dismember, relic, and negate in hand. I opted to play a relic leaving only one mana up thinking I could use it to dismember a baral or electromancer, but he just natural stormed, grapeshotted my team, then put 12 goblins out.
2-1 Jeskai Tempo (Version with Geist of Saint Traft, Spell Queller and lots of removal and counters)
2-0 BG Tron
2-0 Jeskai Tempo again
2-0 BW Eldrazi & Taxes
2-1 Naya Burn
Deck ran smoothly, it feels like playing mono blue but with a much faster game in the early turns. Draw Kopala a few times and got to cast it only once, not much to say really, Kira would have been much the same. Sided Natural state against BW Taxes and didn't draw it.
Speaker and Branchwalker definitely helped racing Jeskai and Burn, being able to trade with goblin guide and closing out the games a turn earlier is a big deal. Didn't miss Master of Waves, didn't need him save one game of the 5 played against Jeskai in whitch it would have pushed the last points of damage through red removal, but it would have been stonewalled either by a Queller or a collonade at that point...
How is Kopala doing in everybody's UG? Every game I saw online and irl it did nothing and was awkward and unneeded.
It has a place in "regular" 4 Waves.dec, though.
How is Kopala doing in everybody's UG? Every game I saw online and irl it did nothing and was awkward and unneeded.
It has a place in "regular" 4 Waves.dec, though.
Exactly this. It feels like a creature that you want to see in the first turns, but in the low numbers that we are using it, we usually end up with him in our hands in mid/late games where kira is usually just better.
I really like the look of this list. I may give it a go, dropping the Kopala for a singleton Spell Pierce main. I've really been wanting to run Pierce again and with a lot of mediocre feedback on Kopala it seems like a good place to fit one in.
Yeah, that's one of the matchups where I'd expect it to struggle relative to the mono-U version. Better luck next time.
Why would you expect it to struggle more ? GU has similar amount of removal, faster clock, more cantrip to look for answers, same access to counterspells and GY hate, no super clunky useless 4 drops in game one – I see Mono U as the weaker shell here.
No Dismember main + only 1 Negate (Spell Pierce is pretty easy to ramp past) = losing to Storm. You can theorycraft about what should be in the list, I'm talking about what's actually in it.
As for the Storm matchup... my record against it with mono-U is actually pretty good. I'm 18-7 against it on MTGO leagues since adopting my 2 Dispel/2 Echoing Truth/4 Negate/4 Relic of Progenitus sideboard configuration. If you're struggling against it, I recommend that you adopt this plan - they may take Game 1, but you are the overwhelming favorite postboard.
So I played storm 3 times during the tournament. I want 2-1, 2-0, then finally 0-2 in the top 8. Honestly the top 8 match was the nuts. My opponent had 10 goblins on turn 2 on the play. There's not much U or U/G can do against that. I did have a spell pierce in hand, but lead with a turn 1 aether vial. Looking back holding up pierce is the right play, but I don't think I would have changed that. I was not respecting a turn 2 combo.
Game 2 in top 8 I had every piece of hate for storm along with vial and threats. I had dismember, relic, and negate in hand. I opted to play a relic leaving only one mana up thinking I could use it to dismember a baral or electromancer, but he just natural stormed, grapeshotted my team, then put 12 goblins out.
*looks at Echoing Truth in his sideboard* I've gotten out of that situation a few times as mono-U, but you're right, it's a bad spot to be in. As for the T1 play, you totally should lead with Vial 10/10 times. The T2 go-off hand is virtually unheard of. Congratulations on the run, by the way.
2-1 Jeskai Tempo (Version with Geist of Saint Traft, Spell Queller and lots of removal and counters)
2-0 BG Tron
2-0 Jeskai Tempo again
2-0 BW Eldrazi & Taxes
2-1 Naya Burn
Deck ran smoothly, it feels like playing mono blue but with a much faster game in the early turns. Draw Kopala a few times and got to cast it only once, not much to say really, Kira would have been much the same. Sided Natural state against BW Taxes and didn't draw it.
Speaker and Branchwalker definitely helped racing Jeskai and Burn, being able to trade with goblin guide and closing out the games a turn earlier is a big deal. Didn't miss Master of Waves, didn't need him save one game of the 5 played against Jeskai in whitch it would have pushed the last points of damage through red removal, but it would have been stonewalled either by a Queller or a collonade at that point...
Congrats on the result! I'm a bit surprised you never ran into fetch/mana trouble against E&T, but I guess they don't always have the land hate package. I don't think Kopala, Warden of Waves is a good fit in the more aggressive UG shell - I'd rather have the 4th Reejerey.
Yeah I thought the same about BW but it turns out that between vials and 12 sources of deck manipulation I got away with it. Banchwalker seems to be at its best in this matchup. Since having a lord on board and a +1/+1 counter means that you can attack through thalia or trade with a TKS while digging for more gas or a spreading seas.
What are your thoughts on my suggestion of the 4th Reejerey over Kopala? Kopala's been doing fantastic in my mono-U deck, but he does encourage more of a "protect your investments" playstyle.
4th Reejerey could be ok, but maybe Copter or Kira are better replacements. I feel like I draw enough Reejerey frecuently enough to not justify the forth slot. And Flying can be very relevant. I'm probably switching Kopala for a copter and go from there.
I think UG Merfolk has been a bit better than I initially assumed it would be, but I still am in Camp mono-U. I'm still in the process of figuring out what I think a good manabase for UG should be (really not liking 0 Caverns, and the Mutavaults look a bit greedy), but overall, I feel like the threat lineup is one card away from being a legitimate alternative to mono-U that we could switch between depending on meta. Another thing that's keeping me in mono-U is that the addition of Kopala, Warden of Waves has performed phenomenally for me (certainly above my expectations for the card), and he strikes me as an awkward fit in UG Merfolk. In particular, he's been nice in combination with Master of Waves, which as we know is the main card that UG eschews.
All that criticism was basically directed towards me. I find it funny that most of what I seen in the last few pages basically CONFIRM what I said to everyone here in the initial days of my limited testing.
I said that:
- Kumena's Speaker was almost as good as Merfolk Branchwalker (confirmed by the scg top 8 player)
- Storm and combo overall was a difficult matchup, and I had incorporated mainboard tricks against it (merfolk pilferer)
- Master of Waves was not as good and we should consider cutting it, as most UG lists have
- The UG list is different from the monoblue list. The UG list doesn't do catchup nearly as well since cutting master, but it plays a more aggressive game
Despite being one of the first to defend and believe UG merfolk and make the accurate observations above, I didn't see anyone mentioning my name here ever since
I'm just glad the UG list worked. It truly is amazing to see how Rothgar13 and IslandsAreBroken postures are starting to shift, despite their unbelievable initial rudeness.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
I don’t think so. That’s part of the process of discovery. This is a competitive discussion forum, and if someone does something we perceive as suboptimal, we’re gonna let you know. Those putdowns weren’t gratuitous - the G splash really did look like crap to a lot of us. Turns out it may not be, but that doesn’t mean we’re going to change the approach. Strong vetting is what gets you strong results. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
And let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves here - plenty of random Merfolk variants have put up a few good results (hell, UW Top-8’d a GP once, and it’s pretty universally recognized that it’s weaker than mono-U). UG Merfolk needs to prove that it can put up sustained results (unlike all of the other variants before it). It’s off to a good start, but that’s just what this is - a start.
Man, one good result and everybody loses their minds. It still needs to prove itself - it's just on the board right now. Again, UW Top-8'd a GP, which is an even bigger deal than an Open - still worse than mono-U. UR has put up occasional 5-0s in MTGO leagues - still worse than mono-U. Hold your horses.
The G/U Merfolk lists remind me of what Slivers would be without CoCo and included Unclaimed Territory. Aggro all the time with some nice cantrips and card selection. It seems pretty good and I like the sideboard counter board and perhaps Lead/CoCo in the side.
It is probably pretty good in this meta.
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Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Oh, and random trick I've learned. When stuck on mana, vialing in Branchwalker before the draw step lets you have some control over what you get
So I played storm 3 times during the tournament. I want 2-1, 2-0, then finally 0-2 in the top 8. Honestly the top 8 match was the nuts. My opponent had 10 goblins on turn 2 on the play. There's not much U or U/G can do against that. I did have a spell pierce in hand, but lead with a turn 1 aether vial. Looking back holding up pierce is the right play, but I don't think I would have changed that. I was not respecting a turn 2 combo.
Game 2 in top 8 I had every piece of hate for storm along with vial and threats. I had dismember, relic, and negate in hand. I opted to play a relic leaving only one mana up thinking I could use it to dismember a baral or electromancer, but he just natural stormed, grapeshotted my team, then put 12 goblins out.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
This is the deck:
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Merfolk Branchwalker
3 Merrow Reejerey
1 Kopala, Warden of Waves
4 Spreading Seas
2 Dismember
3 Botanical Sanctum
2 Breeding Pool
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
3 Island
2 Dispel
2 Negate
2 Echoing Truth
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Natural state
3 Ceremonious rejection
Matches:
2-1 Jeskai Tempo (Version with Geist of Saint Traft, Spell Queller and lots of removal and counters)
2-0 BG Tron
2-0 Jeskai Tempo again
2-0 BW Eldrazi & Taxes
2-1 Naya Burn
Deck ran smoothly, it feels like playing mono blue but with a much faster game in the early turns. Draw Kopala a few times and got to cast it only once, not much to say really, Kira would have been much the same. Sided Natural state against BW Taxes and didn't draw it.
Speaker and Branchwalker definitely helped racing Jeskai and Burn, being able to trade with goblin guide and closing out the games a turn earlier is a big deal. Didn't miss Master of Waves, didn't need him save one game of the 5 played against Jeskai in whitch it would have pushed the last points of damage through red removal, but it would have been stonewalled either by a Queller or a collonade at that point...
It has a place in "regular" 4 Waves.dec, though.
Exactly this. It feels like a creature that you want to see in the first turns, but in the low numbers that we are using it, we usually end up with him in our hands in mid/late games where kira is usually just better.
I really like the look of this list. I may give it a go, dropping the Kopala for a singleton Spell Pierce main. I've really been wanting to run Pierce again and with a lot of mediocre feedback on Kopala it seems like a good place to fit one in.
Nice work on the 5-0 finish!
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
*looks at Echoing Truth in his sideboard* I've gotten out of that situation a few times as mono-U, but you're right, it's a bad spot to be in. As for the T1 play, you totally should lead with Vial 10/10 times. The T2 go-off hand is virtually unheard of. Congratulations on the run, by the way.
Link please?
Congrats on the result! I'm a bit surprised you never ran into fetch/mana trouble against E&T, but I guess they don't always have the land hate package. I don't think Kopala, Warden of Waves is a good fit in the more aggressive UG shell - I'd rather have the 4th Reejerey.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Edit: Added more rationale.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
All that criticism was basically directed towards me. I find it funny that most of what I seen in the last few pages basically CONFIRM what I said to everyone here in the initial days of my limited testing.
I said that:
- Kumena's Speaker was almost as good as Merfolk Branchwalker (confirmed by the scg top 8 player)
- Storm and combo overall was a difficult matchup, and I had incorporated mainboard tricks against it (merfolk pilferer)
- Master of Waves was not as good and we should consider cutting it, as most UG lists have
- The UG list is different from the monoblue list. The UG list doesn't do catchup nearly as well since cutting master, but it plays a more aggressive game
Despite being one of the first to defend and believe UG merfolk and make the accurate observations above, I didn't see anyone mentioning my name here ever since
I'm just glad the UG list worked. It truly is amazing to see how Rothgar13 and IslandsAreBroken postures are starting to shift, despite their unbelievable initial rudeness.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
And let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves here - plenty of random Merfolk variants have put up a few good results (hell, UW Top-8’d a GP once, and it’s pretty universally recognized that it’s weaker than mono-U). UG Merfolk needs to prove that it can put up sustained results (unlike all of the other variants before it). It’s off to a good start, but that’s just what this is - a start.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
The mere fact that someone feels not welcome should be a warning sign for anyone who loves this thread.
Let's rectify and act as school going forward
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
It is probably pretty good in this meta.