16 is just so light for lands. If you hit your second land drop and cantrip, you don't have two mana to cast a merfolk. You are also cutting one of the more powerful cards in mutavault just to run cantrips so you can lower your land court. You are banking big time on an undisrupted turn one vial.
Elves, with 8 turn one mana dorks doesn't even go down to 16 land. I'm just not seeing the point of the cantrips over mutavault and interaction like dismember or vapor snag. Cutting mutavault risks missing your land drops and making you less threat dense at the same time. You may argue your cantrips help you get to your threats, but wouldn't you rather just be casting them or laying them down in a difficult to deal with land?
there's not a direct X:Y ratio for cantrips to lands. look at the extreme. a deck of 20 spells, 40 cantrips, and zero lands isn't going to work. for every land you cut you're making your cantrips worth fewer lands.
an opening hand of 3 merfolk and 4 cantrips is not the same as having 3 creatures and 2 (or even 1) lands. it's a hand with ZERO lands.
i'm sure you'll figure this out very quickly if you actually try to play this list, but 16 lands is about 3-4 too few.
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Modern U Merfolk U WUBRGPeopleGRBUW U Turbo Turns U UB Fae BU WBG Aristocrats GBW
thanks for the input guys! tested some today and you guys were right... 16 lands weren't enough (i had to cantrip into land.) i still don't like mutavault but maybe i'll come around
modern - Serum Fish
creatures (30)
4 cursecatcher
4 harbinger of the tides
4 lord of atlantis
4 master of the pearl trident
4 master of the tides
4 merrow reejerey
4 silvergil adept
2 kira, the glass spinner
other (12)
4 aether vial
4 serum visions
4 spreading seas
lands (18)
12 island
4 cavern of souls
1 minamo, school at water's edge
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
SB
4 chalice of the void
4 gut shot
4 spellskite
2 hurkyl’s recall
1 grafdigger's cage
I have to ask what are your objections to mutavault? A creature that sits idle on the field and comes awake when you need, that gets buffed by both merfolk lords and master of waves is about the best thing you could ask for. I'd definitely run a full set of mutavault before a single cavern of souls.
I guess what I'm missing with your lists is your intent. What are you trying to accomplish with Serum Visions? What, in the games you've played with mutavault, has lead you away from the card? I appreciate people trying new things, but I can't figure out your choices.
There is no reason why to not play mutavault. It's the best land we have for merfolk, by far. I has won me so many games. The only reason to cut it, is if you never played merfolk... srsly.
Also, some spot removal(and even counterspell) is better than serum. Most of the times you can't cast serum because there is better things to do, like a turn one vial or cursecatcher, a turn 2 lord or other fish. A turn 3 serum is subpar to say the least, and you would better have some interaction most of the times, and your list have almost none.
Anyone ever consider Sejiri Merfolk, assuming a white splash? Could be a good card against burn, but again, where are we going to cut in the build? That's always a problem.
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"I hope to have such a death—lying in triumph upon the broken bodies of those who slew me."
—Radha, Keldon warlord
I think our burn match up is pretty decent, definitely not bad enough to splash a color. Getting on the 8 seas + some dispels plan is probably the best way to beat burn, and this lets you stay mono blue too. If you're splashing white, there are much better options than Sejiri Merfolk. You could run Timely Reinforcements or Harm's Way. The problem with splashing white and needing a plains to turn on Sejiri is that your plains is only going to come in the form of Hallowed Fountain because you aren't going to be running a basic. This means that you'll be running fetches, and the combination of fetch + shock really negates any life gain cards you'd pick up in the board for going white.
Burn is a fantastic matchup in my opinion. My winrate against them is even better than Affinity's is against me. We definitely don't need to splash to beat it.
I didn't take any notes so I'm going to give some overall thoughts.
I expected some numbers of titanshift and Gx Tron in the meta, that's why unified will is in the deck instead of negates and boy they did payoff facing Titanshift twice in a row and countering a couple titans.
Smuggler's copter did tons of work dodging warths and digging for answers while dumping extra vials/lands, also acted as a wall against burn.
Echoing truth was useful against Esper Goryo bouncing 2 Obzedat, ghost council giving me an extra turn for the win.
Countermagic was really usefull in most combo/control matches, unified will acted as counterspell the whole tournament.
The Jeskai list ran 4 copies of spell queller and 4 snapcaster mage with few wraths. Game 1 was a close match but couldn't deal with a full playset of quellers and tons of burn. Game 2 I didn't have much luck, never managed to really establish a clock and was flooded with no caverns or vials to at least sneak in a couple creatures past countermagic.
Never managed to draw Ceremonious rejection or Gut shots in game 2 against affinity but I know they can be sufficient due to online testing.
Echoing truth felt more versatile and useful than dismember at least in this tournament I am willing to test it main deck as some other posters suggested. I will definitely keep the 2 copters in the mainboard.
Nicely done making it to top 8! And great job of reading your local meta - Unified Will definitely seems like the way to go, given what you faced. Sounds like you got a bit unlucky against Jeskai Control - it happens. The CounterBurn variant that you faced (which can be identified by the fact that it maindecks Spell Queller) is definitely a bit more challenging to face than the more reactive ones that just hang back the whole game.
Anyone ever consider Sejiri Merfolk, assuming a white splash? Could be a good card against burn, but again, where are we going to cut in the build? That's always a problem.
FWIW, I play them since I splash for white. They're not stunningly amazing but I've found both the first strike and lifelink to be fairly useful. As for what I cut, I yanked the Harbingers. They consistently underwhelm me so were the first thing to go once I deviated from the expected deck design.
Nicely done making it to top 8! And great job of reading your local meta - Unified Will definitely seems like the way to go, given what you faced. Sounds like you got a bit unlucky against Jeskai Control - it happens. The CounterBurn variant that you faced (which can be identified by the fact that it maindecks Spell Queller) is definitely a bit more challenging to face than the more reactive ones that just hang back the whole game.
Indeed the counterburn.dec proved to be quite tricky and I wasn't sure how to play against it. Do you have any recomendations?
Usually, I just sideboard in all the countermagic I can carry, as well as Relics to shut down their graveyard game (which makes it a lot less likely they have enough removal for all of your guys). I could be persuaded to keep in Dismember to deal with Spell Queller, though.
One of the things I noticed on Randall Barber's deck list is now more interactive it is with other merfolk builds, with three Dismember and two Vendilion Clique. Also a full playset of gut shot in the side. Has anyone experimented with Clique and/or copter? Maybe the way forward is a deck that interacts more with our opponent, as opposed to filling the board with creatures and getting there on the aggro play.
One of the things I noticed on Randall Barber's deck list is now more interactive it is with other merfolk builds, with three Dismember and two Vendilion Clique. Also a full playset of gut shot in the side. Has anyone experimented with Clique and/or copter? Maybe the way forward is a deck that interacts more with our opponent, as opposed to filling the board with creatures and getting there on the aggro play.
clique and copter have both been experimented with extensively. The list Nikachu took to GP Vancouver finals in february ran 2 maindeck clique. he also won a PPTQ with 4 copters. both have a place in our toolbox but i'm not convinced clique is good in the current meta. i have tried copters several times and have yet to be impressed by them (except against decks full of sweepers). others like them though.
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Modern U Merfolk U WUBRGPeopleGRBUW U Turbo Turns U UB Fae BU WBG Aristocrats GBW
Im using 2 copters main deck for a few weeks and its amazing !! Very good to do some damage against E-Tron while you dont have islandwalk and they have big blockers on the way
Please see this video as to why the splash isn't worth it. On the subject of Venser... 4-mana for a wimpy off-tribe body and a pure tempo effect is just too weak for the main. Sideboard, if anything.
Elves, with 8 turn one mana dorks doesn't even go down to 16 land. I'm just not seeing the point of the cantrips over mutavault and interaction like dismember or vapor snag. Cutting mutavault risks missing your land drops and making you less threat dense at the same time. You may argue your cantrips help you get to your threats, but wouldn't you rather just be casting them or laying them down in a difficult to deal with land?
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
an opening hand of 3 merfolk and 4 cantrips is not the same as having 3 creatures and 2 (or even 1) lands. it's a hand with ZERO lands.
i'm sure you'll figure this out very quickly if you actually try to play this list, but 16 lands is about 3-4 too few.
U Merfolk U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW
modern - Serum Fish
creatures (30)
4 cursecatcher
4 harbinger of the tides
4 lord of atlantis
4 master of the pearl trident
4 master of the tides
4 merrow reejerey
4 silvergil adept
2 kira, the glass spinner
other (12)
4 aether vial
4 serum visions
4 spreading seas
lands (18)
12 island
4 cavern of souls
1 minamo, school at water's edge
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
SB
4 chalice of the void
4 gut shot
4 spellskite
2 hurkyl’s recall
1 grafdigger's cage
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
I guess what I'm missing with your lists is your intent. What are you trying to accomplish with Serum Visions? What, in the games you've played with mutavault, has lead you away from the card? I appreciate people trying new things, but I can't figure out your choices.
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Also, some spot removal(and even counterspell) is better than serum. Most of the times you can't cast serum because there is better things to do, like a turn one vial or cursecatcher, a turn 2 lord or other fish. A turn 3 serum is subpar to say the least, and you would better have some interaction most of the times, and your list have almost none.
—Radha, Keldon warlord
BLiliana, Heretical HealerB| |GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
GWBDoom Plane EnchantressBWG
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
This is the list I took:
4x Cursecatcher
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Harbinger of the Tides
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
4x Lord of Atlantis
3x Merror Reejerey
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3x Master of Waves
Spells
2x Smuggler's Copter
4x Aether Vial
4x Spreading Seas
2x Dismember
10x Island
4x Mutavault
2x Cavern of Souls
2x Wanderwine Hub
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
3x Ceremonious Rejection
3x Gut Shot
3x Relic of Progenitus
3x Dispel
2x Unified Will
1x Echoing Truth
This are the decks I faced:
Round 1: Skred 2-0
Round 2: Affinity 0-2
Round 3: Titanshift 2-1
Round 4: Titanshift 2-1
Round 5: Esper Goryo's Vengance 2-0
round 6: Burn 2-0
Quarter finals
Jeskai Control 0-2
I didn't take any notes so I'm going to give some overall thoughts.
I expected some numbers of titanshift and Gx Tron in the meta, that's why unified will is in the deck instead of negates and boy they did payoff facing Titanshift twice in a row and countering a couple titans.
Smuggler's copter did tons of work dodging warths and digging for answers while dumping extra vials/lands, also acted as a wall against burn.
Echoing truth was useful against Esper Goryo bouncing 2 Obzedat, ghost council giving me an extra turn for the win.
Countermagic was really usefull in most combo/control matches, unified will acted as counterspell the whole tournament.
The Jeskai list ran 4 copies of spell queller and 4 snapcaster mage with few wraths. Game 1 was a close match but couldn't deal with a full playset of quellers and tons of burn. Game 2 I didn't have much luck, never managed to really establish a clock and was flooded with no caverns or vials to at least sneak in a couple creatures past countermagic.
Never managed to draw Ceremonious rejection or Gut shots in game 2 against affinity but I know they can be sufficient due to online testing.
Echoing truth felt more versatile and useful than dismember at least in this tournament I am willing to test it main deck as some other posters suggested. I will definitely keep the 2 copters in the mainboard.
Keep swimming!
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
FWIW, I play them since I splash for white. They're not stunningly amazing but I've found both the first strike and lifelink to be fairly useful. As for what I cut, I yanked the Harbingers. They consistently underwhelm me so were the first thing to go once I deviated from the expected deck design.
Modern: Storm
Legacy: ANT
Indeed the counterburn.dec proved to be quite tricky and I wasn't sure how to play against it. Do you have any recomendations?
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=114561
—Radha, Keldon warlord
clique and copter have both been experimented with extensively. The list Nikachu took to GP Vancouver finals in february ran 2 maindeck clique. he also won a PPTQ with 4 copters. both have a place in our toolbox but i'm not convinced clique is good in the current meta. i have tried copters several times and have yet to be impressed by them (except against decks full of sweepers). others like them though.
U Merfolk U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW
Also, would splashing white be worth it for Paths and Spell Queller?
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers: