I think the list is fine as it is. It's just a starting point after all. I would only replace an island with Oboro, Palace in the Clouds because that card has serious strategic advantages.
MB Looks good overall, you might find 2 Kira a bit much in some metas I found it too much in mine more due to room restrictions than it being a dead card.
As for your SB, Dismember isnt the greatest bc its a big life investment but is good in some meta's. Hurkyls Recall could honestly be Gut Shot instead, Gutshot helps alot with the affinity matchup and is also good in Infect, Elves, Delver, etc. Negate should probably be Remand, I used to not see the value in the timewalk but being able to counter the rogue bad creature like Primeval Titan is worth it. Relic is good if you see alot of dredge/jund but otherwise is wasted space. Spell Pierce does a lot better in the MB.
If I were You:
MB
-1 Kira
-1 Harbinger
-1 Vapor Snag
+3 Spell Pierce
SB
-2 Dismember
-4 Hurkyls Recall
-2 Negate
-2 Spell Pierce
+4 Gut Shot
+2 Remand
+1 Tidebinder
+1 Kira
+2 Metagame Hate Cards
I mostly agree with zomgcarwind, except that I wouldn't trim a Harbinger for the 3rd Spell Pierce. 2 do the job plenty well. Remand versus Negate is more of a matter of taste/metagame, but Remand is looking better and better nowadays.
Will test it out on cockatrice 1st before pulling the trigger to buy the deck.
I think the list is fine as it is. It's just a starting point after all. I would only replace an island with Oboro, Palace in the Clouds because that card has serious strategic advantages.
So why exactly does Merfolk seem to be dropping off? It's Dredge/Infect matchup isn't that bad (Harbinger of the Tides has been so good) and it is favored against Abzan and Eldrazi, and like 50/50 against Jund/Grixis. Scapeshift is tough but mainboarding Spell Pierces helps a lot (same against Ad Nauseam). Are people just ditching Fish to play more 'broken' decks like Dredge and Infect? Or are the Fish matchups getting worse?
So why exactly does Merfolk seem to be dropping off? It's Dredge/Infect matchup isn't that bad (Harbinger of the Tides has been so good) and it is favored against Abzan and Eldrazi, and like 50/50 against Jund/Grixis. Scapeshift is tough but mainboarding Spell Pierces helps a lot (same against Ad Nauseam). Are people just ditching Fish to play more 'broken' decks like Dredge and Infect? Or are the Fish matchups getting worse?
Personally my biggest problem is that if I hedge vs certain x-number of archetypes then I'll get obliterated by the others. I think the deck is still fine, but perhaps people are opting to play something else right now, reducing the number of merfolk finishes (at least online).
I think it's just that people are opting for other decks. Outside of the devoted few that frequent this forum, this has been a deck that has historically struggled to command large crowds, even when it is well positioned. I think some correction is on the way, but given the shiny new options available, the meta share may not reflect how well the deck does against the metagame.
This was my list from Magic Online. Went 5-0 in a Competitive League with it, but I got pretty lucky with easy favorable match-ups.
Since then, I have made the following notable changes:
Main:
-1 Kira
-1 Vapor Snag
+2 Spell Pierce
Side:
-2 Negate
-1 Tidebinder Mage
-2 Spell Pierce
+2 Unified Will (Could see opting for Remand or Negate here)
+2 Dispel (could see this being another piece of permission as well)
+1 Kira
Agree with adding Oboro. I just haven't done it for cost reasons yet. Could also add Minamo and 2 Cavern of Souls.
So people really are having good luck with Remand and Gut Shot?
Remand always felt a bit too temporary for me. If someone is casting an Anger of the Gods, Wrath, or even a Path against my MoW, I always felt like I wanted a permanent answer.
As for Gut Shot, does your Affinity Match-up still feel decent with Gut Shot in place of Recall? Feels like a big downgrade to me, but I'm open to being persuaded.
It also feels weird to me not to have Dismember anywhere in the 75. Seems pretty important against the likes of BGx, Eldrazi, and Infect but perhaps it is too limited now?
I have been playing chalice since july.
The card is really good against burn, uwr, infect, combos, suicide zoo and decent against affinity and tron.
But I have to say that right now Im not playing counterspells at all. In my opinion, I just want counterspell instead of chalice against tron and RG valakut, and for those deck im playing tec edge.
What i mean is that you should play them in that metagame, but if you are taking out some specefic hate against a pairing, at leat, have a plan against them
My problem with Chalice against Burn is most experienced Burn players will board in some number of their relveries. Mostly to target spreading seas and vials.
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Agree with adding Oboro. I just haven't done it for cost reasons yet. Could also add Minamo and 2 Cavern of Souls.
So people really are having good luck with Remand and Gut Shot?
Remand always felt a bit too temporary for me. If someone is casting an Anger of the Gods, Wrath, or even a Path against my MoW, I always felt like I wanted a permanent answer.
As for Gut Shot, does your Affinity Match-up still feel decent with Gut Shot in place of Recall? Feels like a big downgrade to me, but I'm open to being persuaded.
It also feels weird to me not to have Dismember anywhere in the 75. Seems pretty important against the likes of BGx, Eldrazi, and Infect but perhaps it is too limited now?
Gut Shot is definitely worse than Hurkyl's Recall, but it's still quite good. The point is that it's playable vs a lot more dangerous archetypes like Infect, Elves, death and taxes, and Delver. Dismember is slightly missed vs BGx but the match is still perfectly playable. I don't feel the need for hard removal vs Bant Eldrazi, our creatures are just better. If you play with Gut Shot then you don't need dismember vs Infect.
I have been playing chalice since july.
The card is really good against burn, uwr, infect, combos, suicide zoo and decent against affinity and tron.
But I have to say that right now Im not playing counterspells at all. In my opinion, I just want counterspell instead of chalice against tron and RG valakut, and for those deck im playing tec edge.
What i mean is that you should play them in that metagame, but if you are taking out some specefic hate against a pairing, at leat, have a plan against them
My problem with Chalice against Burn is most experienced Burn players will board in some number of their relveries. Mostly to target spreading seas and vials.
Yes good burn players will keep artifact hate. The thing is that you are playing a card that wins them unless they answer it. Also, if they know you are playing chalice, they wont try to kill your vial and your seas.
I am not saying you are gonna drop chalice and instant win like against suicide zoo, combo or infect, but you are playing one of.the most powerful cards against them. Thats why is very important to have more card against burn, like kira and tidebinders
A third of their deck is one cost (at most), so Chalice should in theory be great, but almost never is. They always bring 3-4 Revelry against us for free 3 dmg while destroying annoying permanent like Vial (which is great against Eidolon), possible Spellskite, Chalice, Seas (they are 4 color deck after all). When they start with Guide/Swiftspear into Eidolon into endless Searing effects, we have no time to deploy do nothing artifact which will be destroyed by Revelry anyway. They also have the same amount of 2 cost spells so Chalice could come when they draw the "wrong" part of their deck.
I would rather fight on different axis then depend on CotV.
I completely agree. When I played at regionals the worst card against burn was chalice for me. It always got blown up; sea's claim and Spell Pierce were far more effective in my Experience.
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Something I'm fooling with is replacing dismember in the side with psionic blast. Yes, I know it does one less damage. Yes, I know it costs more. Something it does give is some versatility though, 4 points of reach to the face is a rarity for blue. So far mixed results. A huge surprise when it comes down though.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
This was my list from Magic Online. Went 5-0 in a Competitive League with it, but I got pretty lucky with easy favorable match-ups.
Since then, I have made the following notable changes:
Main:
-1 Kira
-1 Vapor Snag
+2 Spell Pierce
Side:
-2 Negate
-1 Tidebinder Mage
-2 Spell Pierce
+2 Unified Will (Could see opting for Remand or Negate here)
+2 Dispel (could see this being another piece of permission as well)
+1 Kira
Agree with adding Oboro. I just haven't done it for cost reasons yet. Could also add Minamo and 2 Cavern of Souls.
So people really are having good luck with Remand and Gut Shot?
Remand always felt a bit too temporary for me. If someone is casting an Anger of the Gods, Wrath, or even a Path against my MoW, I always felt like I wanted a permanent answer.
As for Gut Shot, does your Affinity Match-up still feel decent with Gut Shot in place of Recall? Feels like a big downgrade to me, but I'm open to being persuaded.
It also feels weird to me not to have Dismember anywhere in the 75. Seems pretty important against the likes of BGx, Eldrazi, and Infect but perhaps it is too limited now?
Thanks for the update sir, sorry for the lack of credit since after I copied the deck, I closed the tab wasn't able to see who made it. lol.
Chalice of the Void is good against the likes of Burn, Delver, and Infect on paper, but you're not catching anyone by surprise with it. They come prepared with artifact hate to kill it. It's one of the reasons I'm somewhat down on it in Modern of late.
I have been playing chalice since july.
The card is really good against burn, uwr, infect, combos, suicide zoo and decent against affinity and tron.
But I have to say that right now Im not playing counterspells at all. In my opinion, I just want counterspell instead of chalice against tron and RG valakut, and for those deck im playing tec edge.
What i mean is that you should play them in that metagame, but if you are taking out some specefic hate against a pairing, at leat, have a plan against them
My problem with Chalice against Burn is most experienced Burn players will board in some number of their relveries. Mostly to target spreading seas and vials.
Yes good burn players will keep artifact hate. The thing is that you are playing a card that wins them unless they answer it. Also, if they know you are playing chalice, they wont try to kill your vial and your seas.
I am not saying you are gonna drop chalice and instant win like against suicide zoo, combo or infect, but you are playing one of.the most powerful cards against them. Thats why is very important to have more card against burn, like kira and tidebinders
I see your argument. I personally just wouldn't board in 4 against this matchup. Maybe just 1-2.
You need to be careful is that Burn post sideboard will win more through tempo. What they'll do is stick one of their 1 drops and use their burn spells to slow/ control your board development. Once you are at burn range, they'll point their last burn spells at your face
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
You know what we really need in all honesty, is a 1UU Merfolk with flash that counters a spell. That would fix the deck
Cough Spell Queller cough.
Seriously tho this is the only card that has made me consider splashing white. Hits so much stuff and makes our Aether Vial much more relevant if we blind tick it up to 3. Assuming my quellers get here by Friday I will be testing the deck.
I know this looks weird at first by the white splash is almost painless. I removed 1x Spell Pierce, 2x Kira, 1x Tidebinder for Spell queller because they all serve similar functions. Yes this allows us to run Stony Silence, Path, etc. in the side but really Queller is why I want to test this.
It hits a ton of stuff and follows our tempo type game plan. Might move up to 3x Vapor Snags in the main if I go with this list.
But the best part is we can call this deck.....SPOOKYFISH!!
Noted sir.
Will test it out on cockatrice 1st before pulling the trigger to buy the deck.
Thanks for the support.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzcXT2lOK8
This was my list from Magic Online. Went 5-0 in a Competitive League with it, but I got pretty lucky with easy favorable match-ups.
Since then, I have made the following notable changes:
Main:
-1 Kira
-1 Vapor Snag
+2 Spell Pierce
Side:
-2 Negate
-1 Tidebinder Mage
-2 Spell Pierce
+2 Unified Will (Could see opting for Remand or Negate here)
+2 Dispel (could see this being another piece of permission as well)
+1 Kira
Agree with adding Oboro. I just haven't done it for cost reasons yet. Could also add Minamo and 2 Cavern of Souls.
So people really are having good luck with Remand and Gut Shot?
Remand always felt a bit too temporary for me. If someone is casting an Anger of the Gods, Wrath, or even a Path against my MoW, I always felt like I wanted a permanent answer.
As for Gut Shot, does your Affinity Match-up still feel decent with Gut Shot in place of Recall? Feels like a big downgrade to me, but I'm open to being persuaded.
It also feels weird to me not to have Dismember anywhere in the 75. Seems pretty important against the likes of BGx, Eldrazi, and Infect but perhaps it is too limited now?
My problem with Chalice against Burn is most experienced Burn players will board in some number of their relveries. Mostly to target spreading seas and vials.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
A third of their deck is one cost (at most), so Chalice should in theory be great, but almost never is. They always bring 3-4 Revelry against us for free 3 dmg while destroying annoying permanent like Vial (which is great against Eidolon), possible Spellskite, Chalice, Seas (they are 4 color deck after all). When they start with Guide/Swiftspear into Eidolon into endless Searing effects, we have no time to deploy do nothing artifact which will be destroyed by Revelry anyway. They also have the same amount of 2 cost spells so Chalice could come when they draw the "wrong" part of their deck.
I would rather fight on different axis then depend on CotV.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Thanks for the update sir, sorry for the lack of credit since after I copied the deck, I closed the tab wasn't able to see who made it. lol.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
VIDEO Merfolk in Modern Ep.64 Pt.3 vs Dredge (Nikachu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzcXT2lOK8
I see your argument. I personally just wouldn't board in 4 against this matchup. Maybe just 1-2.
You need to be careful is that Burn post sideboard will win more through tempo. What they'll do is stick one of their 1 drops and use their burn spells to slow/ control your board development. Once you are at burn range, they'll point their last burn spells at your face
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Cough Spell Queller cough.
Seriously tho this is the only card that has made me consider splashing white. Hits so much stuff and makes our Aether Vial much more relevant if we blind tick it up to 3. Assuming my quellers get here by Friday I will be testing the deck.
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
3x Master of Waves
3x Merrow Reejerey
4x Spell Queller
3x Harbinger of the Tides
4x Aether Vial
2x Vapor Snag
1x Spell Pierce
4x Wanderwine Hub
4x Seachrome Coast
3x Flooded Strand
4x Mutavault
4x Island
1x Hallowed Fountain
I know this looks weird at first by the white splash is almost painless. I removed 1x Spell Pierce, 2x Kira, 1x Tidebinder for Spell queller because they all serve similar functions. Yes this allows us to run Stony Silence, Path, etc. in the side but really Queller is why I want to test this.
It hits a ton of stuff and follows our tempo type game plan. Might move up to 3x Vapor Snags in the main if I go with this list.
But the best part is we can call this deck.....SPOOKYFISH!!
Feels good to tune your list to fight dredge then get paired against it in every round
U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW