I think bolt is way better than path and it's not close. Bolt has reach to your opponent's face and giving your opponent a land with path is a crippling disadvantage.
Isnt it meta dependent? I mean, my meta is full of problematic creatures, like Goyf, Kalithas, Wurmcoil, Tasigur, Finks, TKS, Reality Smashers....and Path is a permanent solution for them
sure there would be metas where path might be preferable but bolt is just the overall better card. Even against all those decks you mentioned you can still throw bolt at their face, that's how versatile it is.
Main
14 Island
4 Mutavault
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Cursecatcher
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Master of Waves
4 Aether Vial
4 Spreading Seas
4 Sea's Claim
The new plan is to try to dodge Dredge! Alternatively you could swap the sea's claims for vapor snags if you have a more balanced meta. The only thing I didn't see coming was how well positioned infect was. I never saw it once in my playtesting, somehow I figured BGx would eat it up but upon second thought I no longer think that's the case.
How would you deal with Grixis or Nahiri decks without Kira? Kira forces so many 2-for-1s
If you expect control decks, don't play the 8 seas version. This is to be played in a non-blue metagame.
Have you played with much of the 8-Seas vs Control matchup? It seems like the clear move not to use this card in said matchup, but I have found the opposite to be true. I have not lost a single match to a Jeskai Control deck in well over 4 months, at Comp REL or FNM. Min d you I play in a highly competitive area with many great players.
I always use Sea's Claim against them whether it is in my MB, or coming in from SB. It is one of the best ways to slow them down even further, accelerate your plan by causing them to do lots of damage to themselves by having to Fetch-Shock nearly every turn, it makes you nigh-immune to their bolt-snap-bolt plan due to color denial and the tempo loss, and we're already being basically immune to counters because of Aether Vial/Cavern. Celestial Colonnade is not a threat when you play these cards, and Nahiri is far slower and easy to remove with a swing or two before they can do anything meaningful. All of this is in addition to 4 Master of Waves means even if they can control/boardwipe you, you just play more dudes and/or MoW with all of that extra devotion lying around on their lands.
I cannot sit idly while others receive this suggestion without considering the alternative. I definitely agree with your other conclusions, such as it being bad vs infect, robots, merfolk, etc - that is spot on. TL;DR, I've been using Sea's Claim for 9+ months and can't imagine taking this out vs Control. Card is just straight gas every time.
FANAttIC, you are too funny. Eagerly awaiting your Merfolk LD list!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"It's not a matter of deserving. It's a matter of strength. The power to hold versus the power to take."
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
That's a bit surprising to me, but I don't have any data to gainsay it outright. Maybe 8 Seas effects is so much land disruption that even a manabase that can use U for stuff begins to feel the pain. Do you run Tectonic Edge in your 75 as well, Lord_Velysarn?
...
The last one however could be Vialed in, when we are on MoW Mode. It immediately replaces itself and brings a significant Body that can battle Rhinos and Goyfs. Less Win more!
That is correct. It may have a P/T value, but it's not a creature while in hand.
While I have no major problem with vehicles, they made some very poor templating choices. This is going to cause a lot of play errors, especially by newbies.
Funny that u mentioned Thassa...I was thinking about her last night, such a very cool card, low cost, scry every turn and do not see play, even a lil bit
Thassa is a card that has mostly fallen out of favor, but I think it's still useful as a 1-of out of the sideboard against decks like Grixis and Jund. You can also use it against Jeskai, but just bear in mind that it's vulnerable to Path to Exile while in creature form.
Yeah, Nikachu just had a rough match because he jumped the gun with his Vial on G1 and then ran out of gas on G2. G1's scenario is one where you can come out on top by waiting for them to react, and G2's is simply bad variance.
That's a bit surprising to me, but I don't have any data to gainsay it outright. Maybe 8 Seas effects is so much land disruption that even a manabase that can use U for stuff begins to feel the pain. Do you run Tectonic Edge in your 75 as well, Lord_Velysarn?
Sorry for the late response, Rothgar13! I just saw this.
I'll dive in a bit more on the reasoning below, as well as some other thoughts on various cards. Sorry for the wall of text, bear with me!
I would have to agree that 3-color U decks aren't that resilient to this gameplan; oftentimes Sea's Claim can be much better than Dispel in this match up. I say that because I'm effectively 'countering' spells due to the color denial, and they have to continually Fetch/Shock to play anything, so the game closes out rather quickly despite my own side of the field being light on creatures early on. This style of play also pairs nicely with the traditional methods of dropping 1-3 creatures at a time to play around sweepers; due to the increased self-damage from fetching/shocking I don't need as big of a field at any given point in the game.
I ALWAYS run 2 Cavern of Souls with Merfolk, even with 8-Seas in MB. This only adds to my success since their main option to interact, once I deploy seas, tends to be counterspells. This has not a caused any problems with Blue mana requirement.
Funnily enough, I've only ran Tectonic Edge maybe 3-4 times this year. Three Scapeshift/Valakut players either moved away or quit showing up to my LGS, so I haven't needed it really. Since seeing Nikachu's list I've been wanting to try it out, though, just to cement the Land Denial plan as hard as possible. I think that having a few of those would only make the plan better vs Jund, Jeskai, Grixis, Tron, and Eldrazi, but I can't say for sure without testing. Nikachu certainly likes that plan, so I'm sure it is good.
On Thassa, God of the Sea I'd run under a few specific circumstances right now..
1) Only run her with 7-8 Seas. She isn't worth it without those in your deck.
2) Only run her if you run into far, far more Bolt/Decay than Path.
3) Only run her as a 1-of. Way too cute for anything more than 0-1 copies.
On Death's Shadow, I actually have this deck and one of the members of my playgroup plays it religiously, so I end up practicing against it 4+ games 2-3 times a week outside of my two weekly modern events(which lately has had us paired against one another!). He has gotten very good in the matchup, it is not a bad one though - at least for my build.
Obvious all stars are Harbinger of the Tides, Sea's Claim, Spreading Seas, and Vapor Snag. I always cut 4 Master of Waves to bring in 2 Spell Pierce, and 2 Tidebinder Mage. Tidebinder Mage is phenomenal here vs Monastery Swiftspear, and Wild Nacatl. Doing this often lets you save Vapor Snag for Death's Shadow swings. The build he runs uses Gnarlwood Dryad over Steppe Lynx, fyi, which can be problematic for us with the Deathtouch + Temur Battle Rage. Something to watch out for.
Good stuff, Lord_Velysarn. Thanks for sharing. I would also appreciate it if you had a decklist to share for us, as I'm always curious as to how 8-Seas players balance their Seas with their Vapor Snags.
Yes, devotion reasons. Scry 1 every turn for 2U is neat, but scry 1 every turn attached to an indestructible 5/5 that removal on other creatures will find hard to turn off for 2U is awesome.
Merfolk LD is teh future.
Have you played with much of the 8-Seas vs Control matchup? It seems like the clear move not to use this card in said matchup, but I have found the opposite to be true. I have not lost a single match to a Jeskai Control deck in well over 4 months, at Comp REL or FNM. Min d you I play in a highly competitive area with many great players.
I always use Sea's Claim against them whether it is in my MB, or coming in from SB. It is one of the best ways to slow them down even further, accelerate your plan by causing them to do lots of damage to themselves by having to Fetch-Shock nearly every turn, it makes you nigh-immune to their bolt-snap-bolt plan due to color denial and the tempo loss, and we're already being basically immune to counters because of Aether Vial/Cavern. Celestial Colonnade is not a threat when you play these cards, and Nahiri is far slower and easy to remove with a swing or two before they can do anything meaningful. All of this is in addition to 4 Master of Waves means even if they can control/boardwipe you, you just play more dudes and/or MoW with all of that extra devotion lying around on their lands.
I cannot sit idly while others receive this suggestion without considering the alternative. I definitely agree with your other conclusions, such as it being bad vs infect, robots, merfolk, etc - that is spot on. TL;DR, I've been using Sea's Claim for 9+ months and can't imagine taking this out vs Control. Card is just straight gas every time.
FANAttIC, you are too funny. Eagerly awaiting your Merfolk LD list!
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
I play all Cavern of Souls decks
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzcXT2lOK8
you can't vial in a vehicle...
U
WUBRGPeopleGRBUW
U Turbo Turns U
UB Fae BU
WBG Aristocrats GBW
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
While I have no major problem with vehicles, they made some very poor templating choices. This is going to cause a lot of play errors, especially by newbies.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzcXT2lOK8
ouch =( such a hard match
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzcXT2lOK8
Sorry for the late response, Rothgar13! I just saw this.
I'll dive in a bit more on the reasoning below, as well as some other thoughts on various cards. Sorry for the wall of text, bear with me!
I would have to agree that 3-color U decks aren't that resilient to this gameplan; oftentimes Sea's Claim can be much better than Dispel in this match up. I say that because I'm effectively 'countering' spells due to the color denial, and they have to continually Fetch/Shock to play anything, so the game closes out rather quickly despite my own side of the field being light on creatures early on. This style of play also pairs nicely with the traditional methods of dropping 1-3 creatures at a time to play around sweepers; due to the increased self-damage from fetching/shocking I don't need as big of a field at any given point in the game.
I ALWAYS run 2 Cavern of Souls with Merfolk, even with 8-Seas in MB. This only adds to my success since their main option to interact, once I deploy seas, tends to be counterspells. This has not a caused any problems with Blue mana requirement.
Funnily enough, I've only ran Tectonic Edge maybe 3-4 times this year. Three Scapeshift/Valakut players either moved away or quit showing up to my LGS, so I haven't needed it really. Since seeing Nikachu's list I've been wanting to try it out, though, just to cement the Land Denial plan as hard as possible. I think that having a few of those would only make the plan better vs Jund, Jeskai, Grixis, Tron, and Eldrazi, but I can't say for sure without testing. Nikachu certainly likes that plan, so I'm sure it is good.
On Thassa, God of the Sea I'd run under a few specific circumstances right now..
1) Only run her with 7-8 Seas. She isn't worth it without those in your deck.
2) Only run her if you run into far, far more Bolt/Decay than Path.
3) Only run her as a 1-of. Way too cute for anything more than 0-1 copies.
On Death's Shadow, I actually have this deck and one of the members of my playgroup plays it religiously, so I end up practicing against it 4+ games 2-3 times a week outside of my two weekly modern events(which lately has had us paired against one another!). He has gotten very good in the matchup, it is not a bad one though - at least for my build.
Obvious all stars are Harbinger of the Tides, Sea's Claim, Spreading Seas, and Vapor Snag. I always cut 4 Master of Waves to bring in 2 Spell Pierce, and 2 Tidebinder Mage. Tidebinder Mage is phenomenal here vs Monastery Swiftspear, and Wild Nacatl. Doing this often lets you save Vapor Snag for Death's Shadow swings. The build he runs uses Gnarlwood Dryad over Steppe Lynx, fyi, which can be problematic for us with the Deathtouch + Temur Battle Rage. Something to watch out for.
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
I play all Cavern of Souls decks
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers: