Also if AV becomes a huge thing, the white splash could be used for something like Pull from Eternity or some processor like effect similar to Wasteland Strangler.
It would have to become an Eldrazi-level metagame share in order me to consider cards like that. That's way too narrow. People are buzzing about Processors, but I don't think those will stick either. Not enough people will play Ancestral Vision to justify the use of any of those cards as dedicated hate.
While on the topic of sideboards, I would like to nominate Venser, Shaper Savant if control indeed becomes a much more popular deck. Great vs Supreme Verdict and AV just off the top of my head. In addition to that he does look pretty wicked . Does anybody else think he could potentially find a home in the SB?
As a 4-drop? No. That's far too expensive. I love his effect, but the fact that we have to pay for his flash up front (instead of having it as an option like we do on Harbinger of the Tides) kills him for me.
As a 4-drop? No. That's far too expensive. I love his effect, but the fact that we have to pay for his flash up front (instead of having it as an option like we do on Harbinger of the Tides) kills him for me.
Not in the main-deck, I'm talking about the sideboard as an option to bring in vs control. Since those games are likely to go long his cost at 4 mana shouldn't be too bad. Bouncing a Verdict back to their hand I would imagine is pretty backbreaking.
Even if he wasn't so expensive there's just no point to putting a card in our SB for specifically control. It's already a strong matchup for us (lolblue) and we jam plenty of SB cards that happen to do good work vs. control. We need those critical slots for problem matchups.
As a 4-drop? No. That's far too expensive. I love his effect, but the fact that we have to pay for his flash up front (instead of having it as an option like we do on Harbinger of the Tides) kills him for me.
Not in the main-deck, I'm talking about the sideboard as an option to bring in vs control. Since those games are likely to go long his cost at 4 mana shouldn't be too bad. Bouncing a Verdict back to their hand I would imagine is pretty backbreaking.
If the game is going long, I want hard answers, not tempo plays. I would consider Mindbreak Trap to be more useful in that case, and that card is not under consideration either. And as tuxdev said, we don't exactly struggle against control to begin with, plus most of our sideboard cards against combo do double duty there. The matchup can be tricky at times, but it's not a bogeyman that demands dedicated sideboard hate the way something like Affinity does.
I'm simply speculating on how viable he could be if Control did see a rise in play. While I agree that currently control doesn't need specific hate cards,I think it's a good time to start discussing potential cards in the case that it rises in popularity. If it became a top tier deck like affinity, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a few extra slots in the SB to be better prepared. Even though they do play blue, I think people have a misconception of the match up thinking that we should get an auto win. A lot of the time it boils down to individual player skill. If both players have a similar skill level, the match-up is closer than people think.
I think that if that becomes the case, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner and Vendilion Clique are probably going to see more play before we reach for Venser, Shaper Savant. They're easier to Vial in, they fly (very relevant, as it can let them pull double duty in other matchups as flying blockers), and one of them protects us from spot removal while the other sends the Verdict packing.
I always find it hilarious how everyone overreacts when bans or new cards are printed. For example "the white splash is finally good now" happens every time. When you look over the history of successful lists, Merfolk has been more or less stock for a long time with Harbinger being the only new addition. Point being, the meta will not change so dramatically that cards that NEVER saw play like Clique will all of a sudden be tier 1. Clique probably is good vs control, but the problem is that Kira is better overall and Kira is just good in general in Modern. Unless people stop playing with removal in modern, Kira will win the slot.
I mean it's fun to speculate on anything here, I'm just making the observation that there are so many wild predictions but after a few weeks, the better Merfolk lists will just be normal looking lists with some numbers changed around.
Negate, Invasive Surgery, Swan Song, Cryptic Command, Muddle the Mixture, and Remand (lol) all handle Visions pretty well as opposed to relying on Venser or Chalice on 0. Again, Chalice have gone up in price...they might go back down a bit with Eye of Ugin banned, but they could easily be out of the price range for other players trying to deal with that card.
I also agree with Nikachu, Thopher might not even get off the ground since it isn't like Affinity was played any less so all the same decks that had Stony Silence still have it for that deck. It will probably be a fringe deck like soul sisters or ad nauseum, it could take off when it bursts onto the scene but overall there have been more cards printed to stop the combo than cards to help enable it.
Maybe some kind of Modern Legal Shardless BUG will come about using Ardent Plea and other cheap cascade cards to get value out of visions, but it would just be a spell oriented living end deck which also isn't that big of a threat, at least it never is to me.
Also thanks to tuxdev for quoting my "help the school or get expelled", I'd be lying if I said I didn't want it to catch on
I wouldn't worry about thopters much. Our fishies just have too much of a natural advantage over other blue decks. ThopterSword is mostly a tool to buy time that incidentally wins the game eventually, but they need to *block* to buy that time. That's a challenging prospect for any Island deck :p.
Yeah, Chalice on 0 counters AV. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I believe chalice is the best answer we've got to AV, both by costing no mana and blanking any future AVs drawn.
Depending on how Blue the early meta ends up, we could consider running more Caverns and shave on Seas. This is of course my usual Legacy bias talking again, so take it with a grain of salt.
The first thing I've done for the new meta is see what cards I should replace my MD Dismembers with. The default would be Vapor Snag or a counter like Spell Pierce. Something that I haven't done in a long time that I think will be good again is MD Relic of Progenitus. I think the UWR midrange decks will be back to the top of the meta. RoP is bad vs fast aggro, but great against Snap, Tarmo, ThopCombo, etc. At worst it cycles.
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YMTC: We need a spikey red enchantment. My creations:
RR
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
The first thing I've done for the new meta is see what cards I should replace my MD Dismembers with. The default would be Vapor Snag or a counter like Spell Pierce. Something that I haven't done in a long time that I think will be good again is MD Relic of Progenitus. I think the UWR midrange decks will be back to the top of the meta. RoP is bad vs fast aggro, but great against Snap, Tarmo, ThopCombo, etc. At worst it cycles.
I was thinking of either going back to Spell Pierce, or running Echoing Truth in place of Vapor Snag, with Chalice in SB. That way my interaction spell can bounce parts of the thopter combo, or all of the tokens simultaneously. I am admittedly a bit biased towards Truth, but it just always feels great to me. Like you, I'm not sure I want to take MD Dismember into the new blind meta. The RoP is an interesting idea, I'm not sure there will be enough matchups where it is relevant enough in my meta to justify me using it MD, though. Please follow up with how it goes for you, should you try it out!
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"It's not a matter of deserving. It's a matter of strength. The power to hold versus the power to take."
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
With the meta (hopefully) becoming a bit more interactive, I've gone back to 2 Kira main board. I have to say, she's been seriously pulling her weight.
Yeah, Kira is going to be really nice in this meta. I'm probably taking my Pithing Needle out for her, since I expect to see less random combo brews (which control will crush). That said, I'm making no edits to my 75 until I get some live reps - I learned my lesson from the Eldrazi menace.
First time I see Merfolk with a R splash. I knew it was theoretically possible, but no one had (to my knowledge) bothered to do it until now. She went really heavy on the land hate (Blood Moon and Spreading Seas), which I find interesting. I don't understand the Shattering Spree in the sideboard, though - not enough R sources to justify it over Smash to Smithereens or even Vandalblast.
Maybe she only planned on chaining it twice to deal with double duty problems? Ravager + plating vs affinity. Some combination of double bridge or Shredder effect lock-down vs Lantern control.
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It would have to become an Eldrazi-level metagame share in order me to consider cards like that. That's way too narrow. People are buzzing about Processors, but I don't think those will stick either. Not enough people will play Ancestral Vision to justify the use of any of those cards as dedicated hate.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Not in the main-deck, I'm talking about the sideboard as an option to bring in vs control. Since those games are likely to go long his cost at 4 mana shouldn't be too bad. Bouncing a Verdict back to their hand I would imagine is pretty backbreaking.
Twitch channel
If the game is going long, I want hard answers, not tempo plays. I would consider Mindbreak Trap to be more useful in that case, and that card is not under consideration either. And as tuxdev said, we don't exactly struggle against control to begin with, plus most of our sideboard cards against combo do double duty there. The matchup can be tricky at times, but it's not a bogeyman that demands dedicated sideboard hate the way something like Affinity does.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I mean it's fun to speculate on anything here, I'm just making the observation that there are so many wild predictions but after a few weeks, the better Merfolk lists will just be normal looking lists with some numbers changed around.
I also agree with Nikachu, Thopher might not even get off the ground since it isn't like Affinity was played any less so all the same decks that had Stony Silence still have it for that deck. It will probably be a fringe deck like soul sisters or ad nauseum, it could take off when it bursts onto the scene but overall there have been more cards printed to stop the combo than cards to help enable it.
Maybe some kind of Modern Legal Shardless BUG will come about using Ardent Plea and other cheap cascade cards to get value out of visions, but it would just be a spell oriented living end deck which also isn't that big of a threat, at least it never is to me.
Also thanks to tuxdev for quoting my "help the school or get expelled", I'd be lying if I said I didn't want it to catch on
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
Yeah, Chalice on 0 counters AV. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I believe chalice is the best answer we've got to AV, both by costing no mana and blanking any future AVs drawn.
Depending on how Blue the early meta ends up, we could consider running more Caverns and shave on Seas. This is of course my usual Legacy bias talking again, so take it with a grain of salt.
Twitch channel
As far as I'm concerned, this is part of the Merfolk vernacular now. You've done well, my friend.
And yeah, I'm feeling Chalice of the Void in the new meta. It'll put in work on x=0 and on x=1.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Whenever a player taps a nonbasic land, [Card] deals 2 damage to them.
-or-
R
Whenever a player would gain life, flip a coin. If heads, that player loses that much life instead. If tails sacrifice [card] and that player gains that life as per usual.
Fires Rf Salvation
I was thinking of either going back to Spell Pierce, or running Echoing Truth in place of Vapor Snag, with Chalice in SB. That way my interaction spell can bounce parts of the thopter combo, or all of the tokens simultaneously. I am admittedly a bit biased towards Truth, but it just always feels great to me. Like you, I'm not sure I want to take MD Dismember into the new blind meta. The RoP is an interesting idea, I'm not sure there will be enough matchups where it is relevant enough in my meta to justify me using it MD, though. Please follow up with how it goes for you, should you try it out!
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
I play all Cavern of Souls decks
BGX Midrange
URX Control
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=100506
Red Merfolk =O
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers: