Was about to buy into fish but thought I should get opinions about the list I have beforehand. Also was wondering what people thought about Cosi's Trickster in place of Cursecatcher? Is there an argument to be made for it or is it strictly a budget option?
My win rate vs Control is more or less 90%. I use Tectonic Edges of course. Without, it's harder but still very playable. I agree with Cody_X, you MUST play patiently. Supreme Verdict is a 4 mana spell. Lord of atlantis is 2 mana. Make them pay 4 mana to kill the 2 mana guy. UW is the hardest because they have the best mana. Right now I side out Vial vs them because they are consistently bringing in Stony Silence for our Vials and Relics. They side out most of their counter magic anyway because of our Vials and Cavern of Souls. I still side in relic because the upside is so good.
I should add that Spreading Seas will still occasionally mana screw a UW control deck, though not often. What Spreading Seas will do often is remove a Colonnade, their Tectonic Edge that could kill a future Mutavault, and add devotion to Master of Waves. Honestly I forget my opinion about Master of Waves vs the UW version because Path to Exile is their main removal spell which makes the MoW in this match up a bit clunky.
Cosi's trickster is on the level of "playable one drop that is more or less worse in every way than cursecatcher" The fact that a playset of cursecatchers is 50+ now means that they're probably going to be the last card people obtain (excluding some of the nonbasics) and cosi might be a decent replacement in the mean time.
Master of waves vs uw control is fine, in my opinion. At the very least, he presents a must answer threat in one card, which few other cards we run do. On top of that, they often feel obligated to verdict him, as running a path into a counterspell can easily end the game in our favor, and 1 for 1 verdicts are our bread and butter here.
Perhaps its just my experience, but most control games are really just an exercise in patience. Most aggro decks can't afford to play a slow game against control, they need to win fast or not at all. Merfolk is very very much not like those decks. With caverns and aether vials nullifying counterspells, we keep more creatures in hand (as less "fail to commit" due to counters/spot removal). Vial also gives us the ability to swing with 4 power and untap with 12, making them have to wrath for less value than they want. Cards like adept and cursecatcher are the perfect cards to push damage with early while not dropping us far behind. Merfolk is very able to fight some spells with our own counters, but even cards like verdict, that you can't fight, are very beatable by just playing your game slowly. So many games go and you feel like you're just not clocking them fast enough, you feel like they're slowly pulling farther and farther ahead, but if their life total is dropping, you're still getting something done. So many games will end with you feeling like they've buried you with you just getting there with an unanswered mutavault, or end step vialing in a lord followed by another one or two. While cards like rev feel like game over, if you've ever had much experience casting them, I can tell you from personal experience that they often feel too much like 7 mana holy days. The game is always winnable. Spreading seas is playable against colonnades if you have nothing else to add, but don't plan to color screw them, even if it works you have better ways to win.
Referrring to the parts of the post that I put in bold. Not a merfolk player, but I have a close friend who uses folk as main deck - and I'd say that those situations do happen.. where I got ended by Mutavaults while still holding two Supreme Verdict in hand. As a UW control player, because it's my favorite deck - merfolk is not an easy opponent. Anyway, sorry for intruding on the talk. /goes back to lurk mode on the thread. ><
I'd consider Dispel and/or Negate over the Spell Pierce in the sideboard (and arguably the Dismember, but that move is iffier). Having cheap hard counters keeps you in the game against big mana decks that can easily come up with the 2 to get past Spell Pierce. I'd also like to see a Spellskite over the Kira in the board, so you can have one more piece to disrupt the likes of Bogles, Infect, and Twin.
I played in Modern Champs today in Memorial to our dear organizer who passed away a year ago.
He was a great guy and people came from all around the country.
Anyway, I decided to live dangerously and sleeve this:
I was first in Swiss, didn't want to draw with anybody. Tidebinders were worth their weight in gold (must be only my meta), they've beaten Infect, Junk and Zoo by themselves.
I was hoping for Zoo in quarters. Even managed to beat UW Control (foreshadowing... ).
In QF he had his revenge. The deck is so brutal against us: Wall of Omens, Kitchen Finks, Restoration Angel, Vendilion Clique, Path, Supreme and Colonnades. There was no way for nickle and diming them. They have blockers and only use Path for Islandwalking Lords, their flyers are big and unblockable, they always have Supreme Verdict button. I even sided out 3 Islands for 3 Edges because they play Paths and games go long but I had no chance.
Colonnades of course killed me (he drew all four one game and I didn't side out Seas, but my 7 solutions to his manlands were not available).
Oh well, I have Trials next Sunday, will try again.
Try packing more counterspells if WU Control is giving you issues. Stuffing the Path to Exile that is aimed at your islandwalking Lord with a Dispel, Negate, or a Unified Will (and this one can even catch the likes of Kitchen Finks coming in so that you don't have to deal with it) will do the job.
And this is my current list. If anyone can point out holes in my sideboard I'd like to get some feedback. I consider the 4 Hurkyl's Recall to be mandatory because my local meta is so packed with Affinity, it's nearly a guarantee that I won't be able to dodge the matchup. I haven't picked up Cavern of Souls yet either, but 1 or 2 will come in for Wanderwine Hubs eventually. Tectonic Edge and Sea's Claim are my main considerations for the sideboard at the moment; my current plan against BGx is -4 vial, -2 vapor snag, -2 spell pierce, -1 reejerey, +4 tidebinder, +2 dismember, +2 relic, +1 Kira... but I don't know if that's correct or sufficient.
I would buff up your countermagic suite in some way. Dispels, negate, unified will are all good choices. Swan song and remand if you're desperate or feeling adventurous. I honestly believe you rarely need a second kira, and she's a bad top deck when you really just need another merfolk. Spell pierce is good, but it dies off late game. It's also garbage against amulet and some control decks.
I played in Modern Champs today in Memorial to our dear organizer who passed away a year ago.
He was a great guy and people came from all around the country.
Anyway, I decided to live dangerously and sleeve this:
I was first in Swiss, didn't want to draw with anybody. Tidebinders were worth their weight in gold (must be only my meta), they've beaten Infect, Junk and Zoo by themselves.
I was hoping for Zoo in quarters. Even managed to beat UW Control (foreshadowing... ).
In QF he had his revenge. The deck is so brutal against us: Wall of Omens, Kitchen Finks, Restoration Angel, Vendilion Clique, Path, Supreme and Colonnades. There was no way for nickle and diming them. They have blockers and only use Path for Islandwalking Lords, their flyers are big and unblockable, they always have Supreme Verdict button. I even sided out 3 Islands for 3 Edges because they play Paths and games go long but I had no chance.
Colonnades of course killed me (he drew all four one game and I didn't side out Seas, but my 7 solutions to his manlands were not available).
Oh well, I have Trials next Sunday, will try again.
This is slightly off topic - but I know that you play legacy merfolk. Im somewhat new to legacy and been doiing surprisingly well with Fish. However, I seem to be getting stomped by 'Lands'. Do you have any tips re cards, strategy etc? Is this match-up just a write off?
I just won a modern GPT with Hunter Nance's list changing 1 card (Took out a Spellskite for a Vapor Snag in the sideboard)! I will write a report when I get home!
This is slightly off topic - but I know that you play legacy merfolk. Im somewhat new to legacy and been doiing surprisingly well with Fish. However, I seem to be getting stomped by 'Lands'. Do you have any tips re cards, strategy etc? Is this match-up just a write off?
I am active on the Source and Salvation Merfolk Legacy forums. Wrote a lot about Lands matchup, so if you can find time answers are there (just to not repeat myself or do it offtopic here).
Short version, they have zero answers to TNN and we have plenty for their deck, not too concerned. Definitely not write off.
Imo this is one of the matchups that you could / should board in Unified Will
He could but I still prefer Negate. Let it be Splinter Twin or some other match-up Negate deals with everything we care for and we don't need to have more creatures than our opponent.
I just won a modern GPT with Hunter Nance's list changing 1 card (Took out a Spellskite for a Vapor Snag in the sideboard)! I will write a report when I get home!
To answer your questions:
1. Play Naya Landfall, you have 3/3 creature for 1 mana, 4/4 or 4/3 trampler for 2 mana, Abbot or Ire Shaman or Den Protector to reload, Dromoka's Command and Seeker of the Way to never lose to a creature deck and Temur Battle Rage + Become Immense to combo kill them when they tappout for Siege Rhino. There is no grinding, just punishment.
2. You don't claim byes. Usually on friday there are many A4 sheets on the wall with all preregistered GP participants and there is information beside names if they have byes and how many and if they took Sleep In Special.
I just won a modern GPT with Hunter Nance's list changing 1 card (Took out a Spellskite for a Vapor Snag in the sideboard)! I will write a report when I get home!
The Abzanmatchups showed me however that i don't really want to add to my lands with the sideboard. The higher threatdensity is something i like quite a lot. I might go to a very low Tec Edgenumber.
I actually think the Abzan match-up is where I really want Tectonic Edges. I think there are a lot of awkward cards on our side like the cursecatchers, harbingers, and Vial. Curving out mana wize is actually quite relevant because unlike Jund that sits and kills things until the coast is clear, Abzan is capable of taking an aggro role with flying unblockable spirits, and Siege Rhino. Tectonic Edge just ruins their mana comboing with Spreading Seas.
I felt like the deck had a little too much air in these match ups but we came away with 50%. It's a tough match up anyway because they have Path/Lingering Souls to neuter Master of Waves, They can gain life through Rhino in addition to Ooze. Though I desired Tectonic Edges, it is simply an upgrade and it's not mandatory; you can live without them.
Earlier you mentioned my lack of use for Spellskite and Unified Will. Well, because I just don't believe in the cards in the match ups I played against As mentioned, Spellskite just get in the way of Kologhan's Command vs Jund. Maybe he had a place in Abzan because I certainly don't like 12 cards by default. I don't think he'll be amazing but maybe more useful than Harbinger. Unified Will, I'm just terrified of playing it vs a deck with removal + an abundance of creatures. Unless I'm already pretty well ahead, I don't visualize a game playing out in a way where Unified Will is useful more so than Negate.
Yeah you definitely want the tec edges against abzan. You saw how clutch that spell pierce ended up being; one land more and it wouldn't have worked.
If there was one thing to take from Nikachu's runs with hunter nance's list is that, no matter how "aggressive" your list is, playing at the right pace is what ultimately decides the match. Going for broke against twin at the right moments, knowing when and when not to throw a creature against a blocking goyf to get damage through, that will give you more percentages than any sideboard list will give you.
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Master of Waves
4 Harbinger of the Tides
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Vapor Snag
2 Dismember
4 Spreading Seas
Artifact
4 Aether Vial
Land
12 Island
3 Mutavault
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2 Tidebinder Mage
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Spell Pierce
2 Remand
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Hibernation
2 Tectonic Edge
Was about to buy into fish but thought I should get opinions about the list I have beforehand. Also was wondering what people thought about Cosi's Trickster in place of Cursecatcher? Is there an argument to be made for it or is it strictly a budget option?
I should add that Spreading Seas will still occasionally mana screw a UW control deck, though not often. What Spreading Seas will do often is remove a Colonnade, their Tectonic Edge that could kill a future Mutavault, and add devotion to Master of Waves. Honestly I forget my opinion about Master of Waves vs the UW version because Path to Exile is their main removal spell which makes the MoW in this match up a bit clunky.
Master of waves vs uw control is fine, in my opinion. At the very least, he presents a must answer threat in one card, which few other cards we run do. On top of that, they often feel obligated to verdict him, as running a path into a counterspell can easily end the game in our favor, and 1 for 1 verdicts are our bread and butter here.
Referrring to the parts of the post that I put in bold. Not a merfolk player, but I have a close friend who uses folk as main deck - and I'd say that those situations do happen.. where I got ended by Mutavaults while still holding two Supreme Verdict in hand. As a UW control player, because it's my favorite deck - merfolk is not an easy opponent. Anyway, sorry for intruding on the talk. /goes back to lurk mode on the thread. ><
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
He was a great guy and people came from all around the country.
Anyway, I decided to live dangerously and sleeve this:
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
2 Tidebinder Mage
4 Master of Waves
4 Harbinger of the Tides
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Æther Vial
4 Spreading Seas
1 Dismember
3 Vapor Snag
Lands (20):
12 Island
4 Mutavault
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Tidebinder Mage
3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Spell Pierce
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tectonic Edge
1 Flashfreeze
1 Dispel
Yes, I did ditched him
I was first in Swiss, didn't want to draw with anybody. Tidebinders were worth their weight in gold (must be only my meta), they've beaten Infect, Junk and Zoo by themselves.
I was hoping for Zoo in quarters. Even managed to beat UW Control (foreshadowing... ).
In QF he had his revenge. The deck is so brutal against us: Wall of Omens, Kitchen Finks, Restoration Angel, Vendilion Clique, Path, Supreme and Colonnades. There was no way for nickle and diming them. They have blockers and only use Path for Islandwalking Lords, their flyers are big and unblockable, they always have Supreme Verdict button. I even sided out 3 Islands for 3 Edges because they play Paths and games go long but I had no chance.
Colonnades of course killed me (he drew all four one game and I didn't side out Seas, but my 7 solutions to his manlands were not available).
Oh well, I have Trials next Sunday, will try again.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I would buff up your countermagic suite in some way. Dispels, negate, unified will are all good choices. Swan song and remand if you're desperate or feeling adventurous. I honestly believe you rarely need a second kira, and she's a bad top deck when you really just need another merfolk. Spell pierce is good, but it dies off late game. It's also garbage against amulet and some control decks.
This is slightly off topic - but I know that you play legacy merfolk. Im somewhat new to legacy and been doiing surprisingly well with Fish. However, I seem to be getting stomped by 'Lands'. Do you have any tips re cards, strategy etc? Is this match-up just a write off?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Modern UMerfolkU
Legacy UMerfolkU
Standard XWhatever's GoodX
I am active on the Source and Salvation Merfolk Legacy forums. Wrote a lot about Lands matchup, so if you can find time answers are there (just to not repeat myself or do it offtopic here).
Short version, they have zero answers to TNN and we have plenty for their deck, not too concerned. Definitely not write off.
I still prefer Spell Pierce.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Here is that report:
http://www.mtghashtagdreamteam.com/1st-place-modern-gpt-houston-at-insane-comics-1252015-report/
Modern UMerfolkU
Legacy UMerfolkU
Standard XWhatever's GoodX
1. Play Naya Landfall, you have 3/3 creature for 1 mana, 4/4 or 4/3 trampler for 2 mana, Abbot or Ire Shaman or Den Protector to reload, Dromoka's Command and Seeker of the Way to never lose to a creature deck and Temur Battle Rage + Become Immense to combo kill them when they tappout for Siege Rhino. There is no grinding, just punishment.
2. You don't claim byes. Usually on friday there are many A4 sheets on the wall with all preregistered GP participants and there is information beside names if they have byes and how many and if they took Sleep In Special.
Nicely done! Thanks for the report, and good luck at the GP!
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I felt like the deck had a little too much air in these match ups but we came away with 50%. It's a tough match up anyway because they have Path/Lingering Souls to neuter Master of Waves, They can gain life through Rhino in addition to Ooze. Though I desired Tectonic Edges, it is simply an upgrade and it's not mandatory; you can live without them.
Earlier you mentioned my lack of use for Spellskite and Unified Will. Well, because I just don't believe in the cards in the match ups I played against As mentioned, Spellskite just get in the way of Kologhan's Command vs Jund. Maybe he had a place in Abzan because I certainly don't like 12 cards by default. I don't think he'll be amazing but maybe more useful than Harbinger. Unified Will, I'm just terrified of playing it vs a deck with removal + an abundance of creatures. Unless I'm already pretty well ahead, I don't visualize a game playing out in a way where Unified Will is useful more so than Negate.
If there was one thing to take from Nikachu's runs with hunter nance's list is that, no matter how "aggressive" your list is, playing at the right pace is what ultimately decides the match. Going for broke against twin at the right moments, knowing when and when not to throw a creature against a blocking goyf to get damage through, that will give you more percentages than any sideboard list will give you.
I'm most interested in testing Genju of the Falls, Shimmering Wings, and Wind Zendikon