I am curious, whose the best magic player to have ever played our deck?? For example, Sam Black is suppose to be the best faeries player at the moment.There are pros that just play certain decks and I am curious as to who brings our fishies to tournaments no matter what. Let the debates begin. Also, if there is video coverage then that would be great to, I ask for this because it helps me learn when to go aggro or all in and what not if that makes sense. I appreciate the help.
LSV and Rietzl are Hall of Famers and played our deck without bashing it
Unless we count LSV's post on Facebook, two days ago:
"... made a long post about Merfolk, a deck he's played infinite with. It was a list of matchups, and contained only reasons why said matchups were bad. We did not play Merfolk."
Is there any additional info about this statement? Context, maybe Straskys post?
I'm very interested in this.
Game 2 He had a shackles out again, but I had a bigger board presence and Islandwalk. EOT I vial in a Master of Waves and make 4 tokens. On my turn I vial in Phantasmal Image copying Master and pumping the tokens, swinging for lethal. Got there on 1 land :/
Game 3 went to turns, and on turn 3 (his turn) I vialed in a Master, and on my turn (4) swung for lethal.
MVP - Kira and Sea's Claim oddly enough (kept him off Anger). Oh and Echoing Truth. I kept bouncing his Shackles. It was great.
Round 2 - Soul Sisters (1-1-1)
Game 1 - Sea's Claim got me there. He couldn't race.
Game 3 - This was nuts. He revealed a Martyr and gained 15 life and had a 6/6 flying lifelink, then another one. I had a great hand that was actually able to race it. Went to turns. Turn 2 I am at 14 with a couple lords and a lot of power. I hit him and bring him down to exactly 30 (1 life short dammit). He swings with his flying lifelinkers and takes me down to 2 on turn 3. Turn 4 I swing for 18 unblockable and bring him down to 23. I then vial in a MOW and make 9 elementals. Turn 5, his ascendents lost flying and could only bring me to 1 with a Squadron Hawk.
The final game was nuts, and I was happy that I was one turn away from a kill against a pretty tough matchup.
MVP - Sea's Claim.
Game 3 - Bad draft deck (2-0)
Yeah....
MVP - Uh...my cards going sideways
Game 4 - Naya Burn (2-0)
Game 1 - I Sea's Claim his mountain and make him sad. He already had a Swiftspear out. He fetches and shocks to play GG. GG reveals Harbinger. I have a vial on 2 now and draw another Sea's Claim. I hit his other land taking him off green. He plays GG again and I bounce it with Tides, letting Swiftspear in. Draw a Lord, hit him for 2, pass. He is mana chocked due to Islands, swings with a +1 Swiftspear, I activate Mutavault and vial in Lord to block. My turn I play Master of Waves and make 5 horsies. He scoops.
Game 2 - He suspends a Rift bolt, I turn one Cursecatcher. He is sad. Rift is countered. I then play Spreading Seas on a shock, he has to fetch and shock to lava spike me. I play another Spreading seas and he fetches and shocks to Destructive Revelry the first. EOT I vial in a Silvergill. My turn I play a Lord, swing. He bolts me. EOT I vial in a Lord. Activate Mutavault and swing for lethal.
MVP - Sea's Claim. He had to fetch and shock constantly to keep mana open. This matchup feels great.
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
Aside from increasing the amount of Sea's effects (maybe 3 x Sea's Claim and 3 x Spreading Seas) to combat Eldrazi and greedy manabases, anyone have thoughts about Painter's Servant in the SB? Anyone tried this yet? It drops on T2, early enough to keep Eldrazi fatties at bay, especially if we're on the play.
Aside from increasing the amount of Sea's effects (maybe 3 x Sea's Claim and 3 x Spreading Seas) to combat Eldrazi and greedy manabases, anyone have thoughts about Painter's Servant in the SB? Anyone tried this yet? It drops on T2, early enough to keep Eldrazi fatties at bay, especially if we're on the play.
Way too narrow, especially for a deck that might face a ban
Also, always always max out on Spreading Seas before adding a single Sea's Claim. It is just much, much better.
Aside from increasing the amount of Sea's effects (maybe 3 x Sea's Claim and 3 x Spreading Seas) to combat Eldrazi and greedy manabases, anyone have thoughts about Painter's Servant in the SB? Anyone tried this yet? It drops on T2, early enough to keep Eldrazi fatties at bay, especially if we're on the play.
Way too narrow, especially for a deck that might face a ban
Also, always always max out on Spreading Seas before adding a single Sea's Claim. It is just much, much better.
I second this. The card draw from Spreading Seas is the reason why you want to play it over Sea's Claim. It's way more important that Spreading Sea's replaces itself than it is to cast Sea's Claim for one less mana.
I wouldn't say Painter's Servant is any more narrow than say Hurkyl's Recall - they are both narrow but effective hate for powerful decks we are likely to face. That said, many local metas don't have a huge influx of Eldrazi yet (or at least not the ingest-less versions from the PT) so Painter's Servant is a bit of a punt. That said, it is pretty sweet to play it against an Eye of Ugin on turn 2 (especially if they haven't played any creatures yet).
(As an aside, what does the fact that Eldrazi might be nerfed through a ban have to do with playing hate cards against it?)
Hurkyl's also has play against other decks like 8-Rack and Lantern control though.
Eldrazi getting hit would turn it from a (from the sound of it) winnable match-up to an even more favorable one without the need of dedicated SB slots.
The reson for suggesting slots in the SB for Painter's Servant is because I'm testing for GP Bologna in early March. I'm in the unfortunate situation where it will be a GP that will probably see a very high percentage of Eldrazi decks. I can either join them or find alternatives.
I run Burn (it got me 2 byes for a GPT win) but it's so outclassed by Eldrazi it's not funny.
My other deck is of course Fish. It's tempo plays makes is a better choice. It doesn't brick against Chalice for 1 but would definitely require some tools to combat Eldrazi.
6 Seas effects might be a good way to go. Painter's Servant might be another out of the SB.
Thoughts and suggestions and suggested decklists anyone?
Aside from increasing the amount of Sea's effects (maybe 3 x Sea's Claim and 3 x Spreading Seas) to combat Eldrazi and greedy manabases, anyone have thoughts about Painter's Servant in the SB? Anyone tried this yet? It drops on T2, early enough to keep Eldrazi fatties at bay, especially if we're on the play.
I asked a judge he said devoid counters the painters effect
Private Mod Note
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Modern UBRWGHumansUBRWG UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron Legacy WDeath & TaxesW Pauper RGoblinsR EDH UGMerfolk ComboGU Standard UWApproachWU
Hey guys, I just got into merfolk right before the meta shift. The current state of modern is weird right now but how is merfolk? My friend who used to play it says it's not very good but it at least seems decent so I'm curious what you guys think. I have this and tron but I may try to build a third modern deck soon that's better in this meta.
I wouldn't say Painter's Servant is any more narrow than say Hurkyl's Recall - they are both narrow but effective hate for powerful decks we are likely to face. That said, many local metas don't have a huge influx of Eldrazi yet (or at least not the ingest-less versions from the PT) so Painter's Servant is a bit of a punt. That said, it is pretty sweet to play it against an Eye of Ugin on turn 2 (especially if they haven't played any creatures yet).
(As an aside, what does the fact that Eldrazi might be nerfed through a ban have to do with playing hate cards against it?)
Painter is also a lot worse than Hurkyl against their respective decks; they can simply kill it with a Dismember. I also think that, considering how their deck just falls apart if they do not have a sol land in the opener, multiple seas effects should do plenty to help us get ahead. As for ban possibility, I'm just reluctant to put down 40-60 bucks for 3-4 super narrow sideboard cards that might not be relevant in 3 months *mandatory "let's not discuss bans"-comment to appease the Mods*
Personally I don't think too many people act out the "can't beat them, join them" mentality and that, just like Hurkyl's Recall, it is very arguable whether you should spend that much sideboard space on such a narrow card. If I were going to a GP soon, I would probably put the entire 8 seas in my 75, probably two in the side, and probably run more removal and less countermagic than normal. That way you stand a proper fighting chance against the Horde without staring yourself blind at it.
Aside from increasing the amount of Sea's effects (maybe 3 x Sea's Claim and 3 x Spreading Seas) to combat Eldrazi and greedy manabases, anyone have thoughts about Painter's Servant in the SB? Anyone tried this yet? It drops on T2, early enough to keep Eldrazi fatties at bay, especially if we're on the play.
I asked a judge he said devoid counters the painters effect
I wouldn't be so sure of that. The Judge ruling I found was this: "Devoid is a characteristic-defining ability, which not only means that it functions in all zones but that it’s applied first in the appropriate layer.
Painter’s Servant will always paint Devoid creatures, regardless of timestamps." So it's your judge against mine although mine does present a reasonable explanation.
Aside from increasing the amount of Sea's effects (maybe 3 x Sea's Claim and 3 x Spreading Seas) to combat Eldrazi and greedy manabases, anyone have thoughts about Painter's Servant in the SB? Anyone tried this yet? It drops on T2, early enough to keep Eldrazi fatties at bay, especially if we're on the play.
Way too narrow, especially for a deck that might face a ban
Also, always always max out on Spreading Seas before adding a single Sea's Claim. It is just much, much better.
100% agree. Painter's Servant is too narrow, especially for a matchup we should project to be favored against once Sea's Claim is part of our 75s (and that card has game against Jund, Tron, etc.). And you always, always, ALWAYS run 4 Spreading Seas mainboard. No ifs, ands, or buts.
I wouldn't say Painter's Servant is any more narrow than say Hurkyl's Recall - they are both narrow but effective hate for powerful decks we are likely to face. That said, many local metas don't have a huge influx of Eldrazi yet (or at least not the ingest-less versions from the PT) so Painter's Servant is a bit of a punt. That said, it is pretty sweet to play it against an Eye of Ugin on turn 2 (especially if they haven't played any creatures yet).
(As an aside, what does the fact that Eldrazi might be nerfed through a ban have to do with playing hate cards against it?)
Strongly disagree with this statement. Hurkyl's Recall has demonstrable game against the likes of Lantern Control and 8-Rack, Sea's Claim also hits the decks I described above. Painter's Servant does virtually nothing except against Eldrazi, outside of dedicated combo decks (which we are not).
I tested a bunch against both colorless and ur eldrazi today and the result was 50/50 (no sideboarding, 10 games). Pretty standard list except 3 dismember and 3 phantasmal main. Not bad.
For the Painter's Servant question, it also depends what level Judge you asked. Mo could have asked an L1 while Bearscape asked an L2 or vice versa. AFAIK Painter does paint devoid creatures last because devoid is a static ability, as in it always has this ability. Then painter paints it beucase that is an applied effect. Think of it like this Spreading Seas, Urborg is a swamp whenever it is in play because that is a static effect on the card. If you Spreading Seas it then it is no longer a swamp and can't produce black, it wouldn't make sense if the judge said it stayed a swamp no matter what.
not to break up the eldrazi talk, but i got wasted last night with a merfolk deck with Geist in it. Said he ran 4x wanderwine, and with Vial. DID not see that coming
A judge that doesn't say that Painter's Servant works should be shown these rules.
702.113. Devoid
702.113a Devoid is a characteristic-defining ability. “Devoid” means “This object is colorless.”
This ability functions everywhere, even outside the game...
613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then
all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6)...
613.1. The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a
card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. /.../ Then
all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:
/.../
613.1e Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied...
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It
defines an object’s colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; /.../ (3) it does not directly
affect the characteristics of any other objects...
So in essence, Devoid is a characteristic-defining ability. Painter's servant affect the characteristics of any other object and thus isn't.
Both are applied in the same layer, but characteristic-defining abilities goes on first and then the non-characteristics thus the card first gets it's colorless ability applied and then the color from servant applied.
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Sam Black has a Legacy Merfolk SCG T8 from 2009.
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=30534
May not be completely relevant but I was in the T8 with him and we got a pic together with our Lord of Atlantis's.
List felt great.
Round 1 - Blue Moon (2-1)
Game 1 he got out an early Vedalken Shackles and beat me to death with a Vendilion Clique.
Game 2 He had a shackles out again, but I had a bigger board presence and Islandwalk. EOT I vial in a Master of Waves and make 4 tokens. On my turn I vial in Phantasmal Image copying Master and pumping the tokens, swinging for lethal. Got there on 1 land :/
Game 3 went to turns, and on turn 3 (his turn) I vialed in a Master, and on my turn (4) swung for lethal.
MVP - Kira and Sea's Claim oddly enough (kept him off Anger). Oh and Echoing Truth. I kept bouncing his Shackles. It was great.
Round 2 - Soul Sisters (1-1-1)
Game 1 - Sea's Claim got me there. He couldn't race.
Game 2 - He had a double Serra Ascendant and a Soul Warden. Raced me.
Game 3 - This was nuts. He revealed a Martyr and gained 15 life and had a 6/6 flying lifelink, then another one. I had a great hand that was actually able to race it. Went to turns. Turn 2 I am at 14 with a couple lords and a lot of power. I hit him and bring him down to exactly 30 (1 life short dammit). He swings with his flying lifelinkers and takes me down to 2 on turn 3. Turn 4 I swing for 18 unblockable and bring him down to 23. I then vial in a MOW and make 9 elementals. Turn 5, his ascendents lost flying and could only bring me to 1 with a Squadron Hawk.
The final game was nuts, and I was happy that I was one turn away from a kill against a pretty tough matchup.
MVP - Sea's Claim.
Game 3 - Bad draft deck (2-0)
Yeah....
MVP - Uh...my cards going sideways
Game 4 - Naya Burn (2-0)
Game 1 - I Sea's Claim his mountain and make him sad. He already had a Swiftspear out. He fetches and shocks to play GG. GG reveals Harbinger. I have a vial on 2 now and draw another Sea's Claim. I hit his other land taking him off green. He plays GG again and I bounce it with Tides, letting Swiftspear in. Draw a Lord, hit him for 2, pass. He is mana chocked due to Islands, swings with a +1 Swiftspear, I activate Mutavault and vial in Lord to block. My turn I play Master of Waves and make 5 horsies. He scoops.
Game 2 - He suspends a Rift bolt, I turn one Cursecatcher. He is sad. Rift is countered. I then play Spreading Seas on a shock, he has to fetch and shock to lava spike me. I play another Spreading seas and he fetches and shocks to Destructive Revelry the first. EOT I vial in a Silvergill. My turn I play a Lord, swing. He bolts me. EOT I vial in a Lord. Activate Mutavault and swing for lethal.
MVP - Sea's Claim. He had to fetch and shock constantly to keep mana open. This matchup feels great.
List:
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
4x Harbinger of the Tides
3x Master of Waves
2x Merrow Reejerey
2x Phantasmal Image
1x Wake Thrasher
2x Sea's Claim
2x Echoing Truth
1x Spell Pierce
4x Mutavault
3x Wanderwine Hub
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Cavern of Souls
10x Island
Sideboard
2x Chalice of the Void
3x Tidebinder Mage
3x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Negate
2x Swan Song
1x Kira, Great Glass Spinner
Swan Song was hilarious against Blue Moon. He went for a Cryptic Command bounce and draw twice and got two birds.
EDIT: From one of my winning packs I got a foil Eye of Ugin and the other I got Kozilek's Return. The irony was real lol.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
He valued his one drop more apparently.
Way too narrow, especially for a deck that might face a ban
Also, always always max out on Spreading Seas before adding a single Sea's Claim. It is just much, much better.
I second this. The card draw from Spreading Seas is the reason why you want to play it over Sea's Claim. It's way more important that Spreading Sea's replaces itself than it is to cast Sea's Claim for one less mana.
(As an aside, what does the fact that Eldrazi might be nerfed through a ban have to do with playing hate cards against it?)
Eldrazi getting hit would turn it from a (from the sound of it) winnable match-up to an even more favorable one without the need of dedicated SB slots.
I run Burn (it got me 2 byes for a GPT win) but it's so outclassed by Eldrazi it's not funny.
My other deck is of course Fish. It's tempo plays makes is a better choice. It doesn't brick against Chalice for 1 but would definitely require some tools to combat Eldrazi.
6 Seas effects might be a good way to go. Painter's Servant might be another out of the SB.
Thoughts and suggestions and suggested decklists anyone?
I asked a judge he said devoid counters the painters effect
UBRWGHumansUBRWG
UMerfolkU
Eldrazi Tron
Legacy
WDeath & TaxesW
Pauper
RGoblinsR
EDH
UGMerfolk ComboGU
Standard
UWApproachWU
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
Painter is also a lot worse than Hurkyl against their respective decks; they can simply kill it with a Dismember. I also think that, considering how their deck just falls apart if they do not have a sol land in the opener, multiple seas effects should do plenty to help us get ahead. As for ban possibility, I'm just reluctant to put down 40-60 bucks for 3-4 super narrow sideboard cards that might not be relevant in 3 months *mandatory "let's not discuss bans"-comment to appease the Mods*
Personally I don't think too many people act out the "can't beat them, join them" mentality and that, just like Hurkyl's Recall, it is very arguable whether you should spend that much sideboard space on such a narrow card. If I were going to a GP soon, I would probably put the entire 8 seas in my 75, probably two in the side, and probably run more removal and less countermagic than normal. That way you stand a proper fighting chance against the Horde without staring yourself blind at it.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. The Judge ruling I found was this: "Devoid is a characteristic-defining ability, which not only means that it functions in all zones but that it’s applied first in the appropriate layer.
Painter’s Servant will always paint Devoid creatures, regardless of timestamps." So it's your judge against mine although mine does present a reasonable explanation.
100% agree. Painter's Servant is too narrow, especially for a matchup we should project to be favored against once Sea's Claim is part of our 75s (and that card has game against Jund, Tron, etc.). And you always, always, ALWAYS run 4 Spreading Seas mainboard. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Strongly disagree with this statement. Hurkyl's Recall has demonstrable game against the likes of Lantern Control and 8-Rack, Sea's Claim also hits the decks I described above. Painter's Servant does virtually nothing except against Eldrazi, outside of dedicated combo decks (which we are not).
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
702.113. Devoid
702.113a Devoid is a characteristic-defining ability. “Devoid” means “This object is colorless.”
This ability functions everywhere, even outside the game...
613.2. Within layers 1–6, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first (see rule 604.3), then
all other effects in timestamp order (see rule 613.6)...
613.1. The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a
card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. /.../ Then
all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:
/.../
613.1e Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied...
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It
defines an object’s colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; /.../ (3) it does not directly
affect the characteristics of any other objects...
So in essence, Devoid is a characteristic-defining ability. Painter's servant affect the characteristics of any other object and thus isn't.
Both are applied in the same layer, but characteristic-defining abilities goes on first and then the non-characteristics thus the card first gets it's colorless ability applied and then the color from servant applied.