Thinking back on regionals there are a lot of games I won with Sea's Claim because I could cast it earlier than Spreading Seas. Master of Waves won many games for me, but I'm torn on playing 4 or 3 copies. I really want to squeeze in Tidebinder Mage or Spellskite.
I only played 6 sea effects main deck at regionals, but I think playing the full 8 is better for my style. Yeah you lose to affinity, but that is about it.
Losing twice to burn made me miss my Tidebinder Mages and really pissed me off. I can't cut chalice though because it just kills all kinds of decks in this meta. I need a 20 card sideboard lol.
If I have Painter Servant on red in play, that means Eye of Ugin is shut down, Eldrazi Temple gives one colorless mana only, Mimic can't ever attack since 1/3 is in play (:)), Aggregate remain 0/5, Guide doesn't pump, Waves have protection from Dismember?
this needs way more attention. I didn't take the time to figure out all these interactions.
If I have Painter Servant on red in play, that means Eye of Ugin is shut down, Eldrazi Temple gives one colorless mana only, Mimic can't ever attack since 1/3 is in play (:)), Aggregate remain 0/5, Guide doesn't pump, Waves have protection from Dismember?
this needs way more attention. I didn't take the time to figure out all these interactions.
I'd like to test this, but I also wish Painter's Servant wasn't 30 freakin' dollars. How many would we play anyway?
I know it was mentioned earlier, but Painter on Red also means you can tap any creature with Tidebinder in addition to Protection from everything with Master of Waves.
If I have Painter Servant on red in play, that means Eye of Ugin is shut down, Eldrazi Temple gives one colorless mana only, Mimic can't ever attack since 1/3 is in play (:)), Aggregate remain 0/5, Guide doesn't pump, Waves have protection from Dismember?
this needs way more attention. I didn't take the time to figure out all these interactions.
Just bought two on Modo. Not sure if this actually will turn off the <> Symbol beacuse it is "in addition to other types". So its adding the color you choose. Waste lands should still provide <> and TKS and Smasher should still have <> in their cost right?
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Evil Beware!....We have waffles.
"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks." Calvin & Hobbes Quotes
Calvin : You can't just turn on creativity like a faucet. You have to be in the right mood.
Hobbes : What mood is that?
Calvin : Last-minute panic.
Decks I'm playing:
Modern: U Merfolk
Standard: I dislike Standard ATM
They just spiked, unfortunately.
I could easily see playing a pair in the side, if I could get my hands on any copies.
Thoughts on exhaustion with all the eldrazi running around?
Its slow, sure, but it does buy us time, and with vial we can potentially time walk our way to victory.
Well guys, I got my first round of tests in against the UR Eldrazi deck. Here are a few of my observations:
1. 4 Seas effects and 2 maindeck Ghost Quarter were potent disruption, but didn't always show up when I needed them. I would strongly consider 6 and probably 8 Seas effects if this is the deck to beat.
2. I would strongly consider mulling hands without a T1 Vial. I was generally able to stabilize and turn the corner on Eldrazi when I had it (even when on the draw), and I struggled to contain their rush when I didn't. Maybe extra Seas effects can help here, as a lone Eldrazi Mimic isn't particularly scary.
3. Strongly consider Phantasmal Image. Sometimes we'll spend our time trading card for card with them, or simply not get that much of a board state going because we have to focus our efforts on disruption, and Phantasmal Image can come up huge as another Lord, Master of Waves, or an Eldrazi of your choice (having him come in as Reality Smasher can give you a quick clock, Thought-Knot Seer can help you establish control, etc.).
4. Pack as many bounce effects as you reasonably can in the 75. One thing that can really help us in this matchup is preserving life, and bounce effects help keep them off our backs long enough for us to assemble the board state we need to turn the game around and become the aggressor. I'd normally lean toward Vapor Snag, but the existence of the mono-C deck that runs 4 Chalice of the Void has me worried enough that I might opt for Echoing Truth in the mainboard instead.
4. Might need more Affinity hate. Because 8-Seas is generally weaker to Affinity decks (since the Seas effects don't really stop them from vomiting out their hands), we might need to pack more Hurkyl's Recall.
It remains to be seen whether Eldrazi is too good for Modern and thus has to be banned, but I can tell you one thing for sure: It will force some changes upon us. It is a force to be reckoned with.
If I have Painter Servant on red in play, that means Eye of Ugin is shut down, Eldrazi Temple gives one colorless mana only, Mimic can't ever attack since 1/3 is in play (:)), Aggregate remain 0/5, Guide doesn't pump, Waves have protection from Dismember?
this needs way more attention. I didn't take the time to figure out all these interactions.
I'd like to test this, but I also wish Painter's Servant wasn't 30 freakin' dollars. How many would we play anyway?
I know it was mentioned earlier, but Painter on Red also means you can tap any creature with Tidebinder in addition to Protection from everything with Master of Waves.
Probably 2, but if the meta will end up being 80% Eldrazi... maybe 4 will be necessary. But this just goes to show there are answers to the eldrazi menace that all decks can throw in their sideboard.
Not to sound a prick, but I am maybe the first one that suggested to use Worship in Merfolk, right here on this forum, with my "Worshipping Tuna" list that you can find in signature; it may be a bit outdated now that twin is not a problem anymore, so I could try some weird new strategy.
I personally know Casati also, he is a very good and smart player, he always plays Merfolk and he is absolutely against any kind of splash for colors. Every time I face him, I lose because I feel the UW version is worse in the mirror.
I literally posted a deck with a white splash for Ghostly Prison and Worship a page or two earlier...
Okay, great.. Your point is..? Should I give credit to you for posting first? In that case, I posted Worship lists as far back as October and earlier, so you should pay fealty to the real Whitefish in the thread!
About your build with Worship in SB.. I found that to be inferior to just running it in the MB, as you dilute your plan very little to include in the MB 2-3 copies of a card that is unbeatable in a ton of matchups. I would also run 3 Path to Exile over 3 Dismember in MB, you are already on the W splash so why not use it? Your Simian Spirit Guide plan seems misguided, if you will.. Is that just to ramp out a t3 worship? You also run 1 Plains coupled with Fetchlands, I would never run a basic Plains in this list when you can run so many UW lands. Painlands are better even, imo, and I'm not sure I would include those right now.
I was waiting for you to show up! I knew I could reel you in with that hahaha
I believe that 6-8 Seas should be the default build for right now, and if one is really going to try to go all in on hosing these Eldrazi decks then Worship is the way to go. Not sure who Casati is.
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"It's not a matter of deserving. It's a matter of strength. The power to hold versus the power to take."
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
So - do you have any numbers from your stompy Eldrazi testing? Is it close to 50/50 or anything like that?
I don't have data on the mono-C Stompy version yet, sorry. I only played 3 matches against Eldrazi UR Aggro (I went 1-2), but I had no chance in one of those matches because of bad draws (I mulled to 6 both games because of mana-screw and I never saw a Vial or a Seas effect in either). I'll test further, but I think that 4-Seas Fish is about 50/50 (every game I played was close).
Could it be a possibility to run our old friend Cryptic Command in this new meta? Everything big in the format (UrzaTron, Eldrazi, Etc) seems to be slower and that makes Cryptic more viable and more devastating.
Why is turn 3 Karn or turn 3 board of 3-5 Eldrazi creatures considered slower? And how do you cast UUU Cryptic in 19 lands.dec? With bans meta changed into hyperfast decks like Burn, Affinity, Suicide Zoo and Infect (with mentioned Eldrazi overlords). This is completely antiCommand environment.
If I have Painter Servant on red in play, that means Eye of Ugin is shut down, Eldrazi Temple gives one colorless mana only, Mimic can't ever attack since 1/3 is in play (:)), Aggregate remain 0/5, Guide doesn't pump, Waves have protection from Dismember?
this needs way more attention. I didn't take the time to figure out all these interactions.
Just bought two on Modo. Not sure if this actually will turn off the <> Symbol beacuse it is "in addition to other types". So its adding the color you choose. Waste lands should still provide <> and TKS and Smasher should still have <> in their cost right?
Waste itself will provide colorless but Eye and Temple will be crippled because their double mana is for colorless only dudes (they are now red or whatever). Smasher is not scary when he always costs five mana.
I don't have data on the mono-C Stompy version yet, sorry. I only played 3 matches against Eldrazi UR Aggro (I went 1-2), but I had no chance in one of those matches because of bad draws (I mulled to 6 both games because of mana-screw and I never saw a Vial or a Seas effect in either). I'll test further, but I think that 4-Seas Fish is about 50/50 (every game I played was close).
Tried Casati version against UR Eldrazi yesterday (20 games only, no sideboard). Games were surprisingly close to 50/50. They are the worst deck in format if no Eye/Temple is drawn or become Seased. They have to mull for them or die horribly. Few Claims and Servants could push to managable matchup, if Wizards continue to do nothing.
I don't know how it works exactly, but Dismember also has an interaction with the Mimics. They can't switch their P/T to the big creature if you dismember them. The Player has to keep them 2/1s. Si Dismember usually saves you more live than it costs.
Yep, Mimic has that unfortunate "may" word. I was hoping it always copies P/T so that I could kill 2 dudes with one Dismember
So - do you have any numbers from your stompy Eldrazi testing? Is it close to 50/50 or anything like that?
I don't have data on the mono-C Stompy version yet, sorry. I only played 3 matches against Eldrazi UR Aggro (I went 1-2), but I had no chance in one of those matches because of bad draws (I mulled to 6 both games because of mana-screw and I never saw a Vial or a Seas effect in either). I'll test further, but I think that 4-Seas Fish is about 50/50 (every game I played was close).
My mate has the UR eldrazi deck proxied and I played him tonight with a 'beat-eldrazi list' - 2 ghost quarters, 6 seas main deck, 4x Phantasmal image. I won about 30-40 % of games player - there were a lot of close games - but generally they feel like a turn faster. Often I would seas an eldrazi land and then he would play another and just get there. The games I won were the ones I managed to stifle his mana on and have a fairly aggro hand of Lords and PI's and MoW. My testing says its substantially less than 50/50 but others may have better results - I hope!
Like everyone, been working on a brew that can hopefully work against Eldrazi, while keeping us in there with everyone else. I know the general consensus on <c>Seachrome Coast</c>, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Here goes:
<deck title = Merfolk>
Creatures
4 Cursecatcher
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Master of Waves
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
Enchantments
2 Sea's Claim
4 Spreading Seas
2 Worship
Lands
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Mutavault
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Seachrome Coast
7 Snow-Covered Island
3 Wanderwine Hub
Decided to run the <c>Worship</c> in the main, as most decks try to beat us with damage, Infect, I'm looking at you as the oddball here. I'll be interested in people's thoughts, I know it's slightly off from the normal thought for our beloved Merfolk, but at this point, with GP Detroit coming up in a few weeks, the normal thought just isn't enough. I also don't think that this early in the new modern we can sit back and hope that other people will deal with Eldrazi and Affinity, as no one has yet at a major tournament. Which means that there is no known answer yet to them. Time to be proactive.
If Dismember isn't good in MD, I will replace them with 1 Reejerey and 1 Harbinger.
Dispel is for Kiki Chord, Grishoalbrand(Goryo and Breach). Against other decks, it's also good tempo card.
I don't know how mana denial works against Eldrazis, but for the time being, this is my plan.
Thank you for your comment. Ok then, I will try Dismember MD for a while!
And I guess one of our possible win paterns is their not having explosive hand and lands. I'll aim at the point!
Played against another NEW version of this deck. It was using the colored Lands from G/R Tron (so Groves/ RG pain land) To cast spells like Ancient Stirrings, Lighting Bolt and Kozilek's Return. It was still using Temples, Eyes, and Urborg. This might catch on as it seemed pretty strong with the addition of Bolts, and the new board wipe. We knew it was a matter of time before people started playing it. Game 2 I got blowen out by him casting two of them to wipe my 3/3's
(which I was committing to try to play around it).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Evil Beware!....We have waffles.
"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks." Calvin & Hobbes Quotes
Calvin : You can't just turn on creativity like a faucet. You have to be in the right mood.
Hobbes : What mood is that?
Calvin : Last-minute panic.
Decks I'm playing:
Modern: U Merfolk
Standard: I dislike Standard ATM
Note that clearly no one had broken out the Eldrazi stupidity at that tournament. Not sure how he would do if that deck was present there in numbers, piloted by top players.
If you are referring to the tournament Casati won this weekend, there was 8% eldrazi in the field. Not sure about those builds or their pilots, but the fact that not a single eldrazi deck made top 8 is pretty interesting.
I hope the eldrazi thing was a fluke, but atm i think alot of eldrazi losses are due to owner error, they went out copied the list or made one like not knowing the ins and outs yet. I did this with my esper deck and took me forever, still a bit; to actually get down really good.
Ah, okay, he is just a guy named Dario Casati. Not to discount his abilities, but why does his opinion on Merfolk hold so much weight for all of you guys? I see a one posted result last year, and one last weekend in total. He could be a fantastic player, but I don't see much in the way of empirical data to suggest that other than the one win this year, which doesn't make a trend by any means.. Do we follow this closely anyone who gets a single top 8 entry of Merfolk? He also has some Legacy results from several years ago but that isn't relevant. Is he known for being a great Merfolk player? If so, please explain how/when/why so myself and any others who are unaware can catch up.
He appears to have done well with that 31 Creature list, and I like the idea of playing that many Phantasmal Image in Merfolk to have a huge lord count and also have virtual additional copies of all of your utility creatures. But, as noted, that meta isn't exactly crawling with the new Eldrazi builds, so it isn't much to go off of in the context of "Merfolk in an Post PTOGW Eldrazi Meta." Good to see a Merfolk win either way, though.
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"It's not a matter of deserving. It's a matter of strength. The power to hold versus the power to take."
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
Modern
I play all Cavern of Souls decks
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What about cutting Harbingers for Tidebinders?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I'd like to test this, but I also wish Painter's Servant wasn't 30 freakin' dollars. How many would we play anyway?
I know it was mentioned earlier, but Painter on Red also means you can tap any creature with Tidebinder in addition to Protection from everything with Master of Waves.
Modern UMerfolkU
Legacy UMerfolkU
Standard XWhatever's GoodX
Just bought two on Modo. Not sure if this actually will turn off the <> Symbol beacuse it is "in addition to other types". So its adding the color you choose. Waste lands should still provide <> and TKS and Smasher should still have <> in their cost right?
Evil Beware!....We have waffles.
"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks." Calvin & Hobbes Quotes
Calvin : You can't just turn on creativity like a faucet. You have to be in the right mood.
Hobbes : What mood is that?
Calvin : Last-minute panic.
Decks I'm playing:
Modern: U Merfolk
Standard: I dislike Standard ATM
I could easily see playing a pair in the side, if I could get my hands on any copies.
Thoughts on exhaustion with all the eldrazi running around?
Its slow, sure, but it does buy us time, and with vial we can potentially time walk our way to victory.
1. 4 Seas effects and 2 maindeck Ghost Quarter were potent disruption, but didn't always show up when I needed them. I would strongly consider 6 and probably 8 Seas effects if this is the deck to beat.
2. I would strongly consider mulling hands without a T1 Vial. I was generally able to stabilize and turn the corner on Eldrazi when I had it (even when on the draw), and I struggled to contain their rush when I didn't. Maybe extra Seas effects can help here, as a lone Eldrazi Mimic isn't particularly scary.
3. Strongly consider Phantasmal Image. Sometimes we'll spend our time trading card for card with them, or simply not get that much of a board state going because we have to focus our efforts on disruption, and Phantasmal Image can come up huge as another Lord, Master of Waves, or an Eldrazi of your choice (having him come in as Reality Smasher can give you a quick clock, Thought-Knot Seer can help you establish control, etc.).
4. Pack as many bounce effects as you reasonably can in the 75. One thing that can really help us in this matchup is preserving life, and bounce effects help keep them off our backs long enough for us to assemble the board state we need to turn the game around and become the aggressor. I'd normally lean toward Vapor Snag, but the existence of the mono-C deck that runs 4 Chalice of the Void has me worried enough that I might opt for Echoing Truth in the mainboard instead.
4. Might need more Affinity hate. Because 8-Seas is generally weaker to Affinity decks (since the Seas effects don't really stop them from vomiting out their hands), we might need to pack more Hurkyl's Recall.
It remains to be seen whether Eldrazi is too good for Modern and thus has to be banned, but I can tell you one thing for sure: It will force some changes upon us. It is a force to be reckoned with.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
I was waiting for you to show up! I knew I could reel you in with that hahaha
I believe that 6-8 Seas should be the default build for right now, and if one is really going to try to go all in on hosing these Eldrazi decks then Worship is the way to go. Not sure who Casati is.
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
I play all Cavern of Souls decks
I don't have data on the mono-C Stompy version yet, sorry. I only played 3 matches against Eldrazi UR Aggro (I went 1-2), but I had no chance in one of those matches because of bad draws (I mulled to 6 both games because of mana-screw and I never saw a Vial or a Seas effect in either). I'll test further, but I think that 4-Seas Fish is about 50/50 (every game I played was close).
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Excellent! Could you bribe him into visiting this board? We need all masters we can get.
Waste itself will provide colorless but Eye and Temple will be crippled because their double mana is for colorless only dudes (they are now red or whatever). Smasher is not scary when he always costs five mana.
We talked about him when he won 202 PTQ last year. Further search lead to some results: http://www.mtgtop8.com/search?player=Dario Casati + win from this Sunday (108 players).
Tried Casati version against UR Eldrazi yesterday (20 games only, no sideboard). Games were surprisingly close to 50/50. They are the worst deck in format if no Eye/Temple is drawn or become Seased. They have to mull for them or die horribly. Few Claims and Servants could push to managable matchup, if Wizards continue to do nothing.
Yep, Mimic has that unfortunate "may" word. I was hoping it always copies P/T so that I could kill 2 dudes with one Dismember
My mate has the UR eldrazi deck proxied and I played him tonight with a 'beat-eldrazi list' - 2 ghost quarters, 6 seas main deck, 4x Phantasmal image. I won about 30-40 % of games player - there were a lot of close games - but generally they feel like a turn faster. Often I would seas an eldrazi land and then he would play another and just get there. The games I won were the ones I managed to stifle his mana on and have a fairly aggro hand of Lords and PI's and MoW. My testing says its substantially less than 50/50 but others may have better results - I hope!
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
<deck title = Merfolk>
Creatures
4 Cursecatcher
4 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Master of Waves
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 Silvergill Adept
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
Enchantments
2 Sea's Claim
4 Spreading Seas
2 Worship
Lands
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Mutavault
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
2 Seachrome Coast
7 Snow-Covered Island
3 Wanderwine Hub
Sideboard
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Dispel
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Negate
2 Painter's Servant
2 Spell Pierce
</deck>
Decided to run the <c>Worship</c> in the main, as most decks try to beat us with damage, Infect, I'm looking at you as the oddball here. I'll be interested in people's thoughts, I know it's slightly off from the normal thought for our beloved Merfolk, but at this point, with GP Detroit coming up in a few weeks, the normal thought just isn't enough. I also don't think that this early in the new modern we can sit back and hope that other people will deal with Eldrazi and Affinity, as no one has yet at a major tournament. Which means that there is no known answer yet to them. Time to be proactive.
As always, #JustKeepSwimming
How about a list like this?
10 Island
4 Mutavault
2 Wanderwine Hub
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Cavern of Souls
Creatures(27)
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Harbinger of the Tides
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Merrow Reejerey
3 Master of Waves
4 Æther Vial
4 Spreading Seas
2 Sea's Claim
2 Dismember
2 Dispel
3 Ghost Quarter
3 Negate
2 Spell Pierce
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Tidebinder Mage
2 Relic of Progenitus
If Dismember isn't good in MD, I will replace them with 1 Reejerey and 1 Harbinger.
Dispel is for Kiki Chord, Grishoalbrand(Goryo and Breach). Against other decks, it's also good tempo card.
I don't know how mana denial works against Eldrazis, but for the time being, this is my plan.
UMerfolkU
BWBW TokensBW
And I guess one of our possible win paterns is their not having explosive hand and lands. I'll aim at the point!
UMerfolkU
BWBW TokensBW
(which I was committing to try to play around it).
Evil Beware!....We have waffles.
"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks." Calvin & Hobbes Quotes
Calvin : You can't just turn on creativity like a faucet. You have to be in the right mood.
Hobbes : What mood is that?
Calvin : Last-minute panic.
Decks I'm playing:
Modern: U Merfolk
Standard: I dislike Standard ATM
If you are referring to the tournament Casati won this weekend, there was 8% eldrazi in the field. Not sure about those builds or their pilots, but the fact that not a single eldrazi deck made top 8 is pretty interesting.
He appears to have done well with that 31 Creature list, and I like the idea of playing that many Phantasmal Image in Merfolk to have a huge lord count and also have virtual additional copies of all of your utility creatures. But, as noted, that meta isn't exactly crawling with the new Eldrazi builds, so it isn't much to go off of in the context of "Merfolk in an Post PTOGW Eldrazi Meta." Good to see a Merfolk win either way, though.
-Sygg, River Cutthroat
I play all Cavern of Souls decks