Has anyone played against the Green-Devotion-deck that is talked about a lot nowadays? I haven't and i actually don't know if i have to fear this or not and how to play the matchup. Any insights?
Same goes for Elves. Can we if we want beat them? What sideboardcards do i need for that??
For playing against the mono-G devotion deck spreading seas helps a ton. Alot of their creature have double or triple G as their mana cost so we can easily timewalk them plus being able to push thru their docks with islandwalk helps a ton. They don't really play with a lot of removal so our threats tend to stick around if you aren't chumping and because of MoW we can hit critical mass a lot easier than they can. It isn't really a hard match up in my experience. Counter magic isn't really necessary but threats are, threat it like zoo if they didn't draw removal.
Elves is just luck ;p Hibernation doesn't matter. Tidebinder doesn't always matter. Flash freeze doesn't matter. They are just too quick. A chalice on 1 can buy you some turns but it is by no means a lock.
There's a mono-G Devotion deck running around? I sw a couple of fringe lists last summer, but nothing since. Anyone care to hit me up with a link or something?
Thoughts on a list like this? Also Anyone have thoughts on Cosi's Trickster making the deck as a 2 of? Right now, it seems like the aggro beats is very effective. With all the 3 color mana bases fetching, tron searching for lands,Scapeshift searching for lands, and Eldrazi using eye and map, it seems like she could get big really quick even without a lord buff. I currently run Tec Edge in the board, but if we are switching to Ghost quarters, that's even another shuffle. I'm running 6 seas, so 2 trickster would bring the 1 drop count to 14 (2 trickster, 4 cursecatcher,4 vial, 2 sea's claim, 2 spell pierce), which seems desirable.
Yeah, you always keep in Vial for WU Draw-Go Control, regardless if they play Stony Silence. Their main interaction vectors are counterspells and sweepers, and taking one aspect out of that equation cripples them.
I think the Ghost Quarters main is too ambitious with all that brown mana, otherwise it seems fine
My manabase is similar, except -2 Wanderwine Hub, + 1 Island, + 1 Minamo and I haven't been having issues casting blue spells. That said, I'm not playing with spell pierce main, so I'm okay with T1 not being an island. YMMV.
There are some budget fringey versions that use Aspect of Hydra and Leatherback Baloth with Rancor, but it is fundamentally the same deck I haven't play against a version of it since BFZ was legal
If I'm referring to the wrong deck by all means correct me, but I was surprised at how little fight the deck had in it when I played against it.
Looks like easy prey, to be honest. We have plenty of tools to disrupt them (Spreading Seas on Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx slows the deck down dramatically), and a postboard Tidebinder Mage is going to bury them. I don't think it's explosive enough for us to be worried about it.
On the topic of spreading seas here, you'll notice that utopia sprawl can only enchant forests...
I believe the aspect of hydra/leatherback baloth is generally a different deck, more of a mono-g +1/+1 counter aggro.
I've seen different versions using cards like experiment one, avatar of the resolute, beast within, rancor, llanowar elves, etc.
Its much more aggressive, and can actually give us a run for our money simply due to how potentially explosive they can be, especially if they can block.
The big question you need to find out is what they're trying to ramp into.
Genesis wave? Beatable. Even if they have craterhoof, they won't necessarily have enough non-summonsick creatures after a wave to kill you, especially through a harbinger or tidebinder or snag. The prime time version is even easier, as we can potentially hit their wolfruns.
If its tooth and nail though, you need to be a bit more prepared, as they will instantly win (in a vast majority of games) if they get there.
Nonetheless, I don't think the deck in general is something to be concerned about, they get hit by pretty much all of our interaction barring dismember and sometimes spell pierce anyways.
Sounds like Echoing Truth or Hurkyl's Recall would be handy. It's entirely possible for U-Tron to give us the occasional tough game post-board, but overall we are very highly favored. Our winning Game 1 is almost a given, at which point you just need to grab one more game.
Fish used to be favored against UTron but not any more, they have too many sweepers. 4 Ratchet Bombs, O Stones and Ugin.
Ratchet Bomb isn't mainboard, by my understanding - it only does work against Merfolk and Bogles. Furthermore, O-Stone and Ugin are 2-ofs. 8 sweepers, none of which are fast, aren't going to magically turn the matchup around. It's no longer a bye post-board, but as I said, you're very likely to win Game 1. Even if Games 2-3 are 55/45 (or, Thassa forbid, 50/50), that's still a very high likelihood of winning the match.
I've happily got the mindset that in the current meta, Merfolk is my best positioned deck. It has a bit of everything, and it's tribal! Haha. So I'm making Merfolk my main deck of choice. I've finally figured I must need improving in certain matchups to understand how to fight them and it's not Merfolk's fault. To help improve my gameplay, what is my best defence / strategy versus Bogles? From my point of view, I should counter / bounce and lifelink or trample enchantments for the victory. Is that the best way to go about it?
Your primary priority is to stop Daybreak Coronet. You can work around a Bogle equipped with virtually anything else (though admittedly, Spirit Link and/or Unflinching Courage are also a pain) by either chump-blocking or racing them, but not the Coronet. My preferred way to do so is a mix of counterspells (Chalice of the Void buries that deck by not letting them use the cheap Auras they need for Coronet to be useful, but Negate and Unified Will are also handy) and bounce (Echoing Truth helps buy you a reprieve if they did manage to stick the Coronet).
Your primary priority is to stop Daybreak Coronet. You can work around a Bogle equipped with virtually anything else (though admittedly, Spirit Link and/or Unflinching Courage are also a pain) by either chump-blocking or racing them, but not the Coronet. My preferred way to do so is a mix of counterspells (Chalice of the Void buries that deck by not letting them use the cheap Auras they need for Coronet to be useful, but Negate and Unified Will are also handy) and bounce (Echoing Truth helps buy you a reprieve if they did manage to stick the Coronet).
I've also been having trouble with Rancor though. When they resolve it with an Etheral Armour (without a Daybreak), I haven't been able to race them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
Chalice on 1 and spreading seas their white sources if possible to keep Etereal Armor, Coronet, and alot of other nasty stuff from being cast. Suppression field can be a pain since it basically turns vial into just a leyline of anticipation but we can win through that. Echoing truth to get rid of whatever gives trample or lifelink. It is completely a tempo match, if you try to outrace them and just tap out every turn they can probably bury you. On the plus side sometimes you can just win by gang blocking and they don't have another creature to enchant. They run more enchantments than creatures so MoW and friends or a bunch of bulky lords can buy us turns to chip them away to death.
Your primary priority is to stop Daybreak Coronet. You can work around a Bogle equipped with virtually anything else (though admittedly, Spirit Link and/or Unflinching Courage are also a pain) by either chump-blocking or racing them, but not the Coronet. My preferred way to do so is a mix of counterspells (Chalice of the Void buries that deck by not letting them use the cheap Auras they need for Coronet to be useful, but Negate and Unified Will are also handy) and bounce (Echoing Truth helps buy you a reprieve if they did manage to stick the Coronet).
I've also been having trouble with Rancor though. When they resolve it with an Etheral Armour (without a Daybreak), I haven't been able to race them.
As much as coronet sucks - I've found the trample aura's the most backbreaking. You can keep chumping coronet and generally swing with a ton of power via MoW etc - but trample will prob kill you. I play an extra Sea's Claim in the sb - I generally win when the mull (which is a lot) and can colour screw them
I (for some reason that I'm not certain. Maybe because of being trounced by them in some qualifiers the day before) had a few Kiora's Dismissal's in my side for the Bogle match up. It worked against both Bogles and Twin, but was still a bad idea
I see a lot of people maindecking one or two Phantasmal Images. Why not use 4 Phantasmal Images now? Especially when we have such creature heavy builds.
What do you take out for it? I think the best balance is in 3 each of Rejerey and Master of Waves, and 2 Phantasmal IMages, that way you have the 4th copy of the former cards if you need them, but still have a very good chance of drawing them. Maybe you can take out a Harbinger for a 3rd Image, but I don't know what we would remove beyond that.
I am thinking of trading in most of my Tron staples for the Merfolk deck. Never really played aggro before (Jund, Twin, etc. is what I have played mainly).
The deck seems fairly well positioned now, and honestly it looks like a fun deck that is safe to buy into.
What are the main strengths and weaknesses of this deck? Is Affinity the only real bad match up?
I see a lot of people maindecking one or two Phantasmal Images. Why not use 4 Phantasmal Images now? Especially when we have such creature heavy builds.
2 seems to be en vogue right now because it offers a good mix of flexibility without flooding them in your hand. It's also hard to have too many of them because you don't get the benefit of Path when they're targeted, etc. You also need enough creatures to actually target, so if your hand is Cursecatcher, Image, Image or even Silvergil, Image, Image, you're in trouble.
That said, they have a lot of utility (if you go a few pages back you can see all the fun creatures we've copied), so perhaps running an extra in the board is worth exploring. For those of us that also play Merfolk in Legacy, 3 is often the right number, but I find them to more often copy other creatures in Legacy, whereas in modern I tend to want another Lord, Master of Waves, and occasionally Cursecatcher (saved me against UW Control yesterday).
I see a lot of people maindecking one or two Phantasmal Images. Why not use 4 Phantasmal Images now? Especially when we have such creature heavy builds.
4 Phantasmal Images is definitely excessive. The Image occupies a very fragile role in the Merfolk deck ecosystem in that it requires a board state apart from itself in order to do anything, which can be really bad against control decks with sweepers or midrange decks playing the attrition game, especially if they're using a manland (particularly a manland you'd be unable to activate) to finish you. If the meta were nothing but linear aggro and combo, there could be an argument for it (though its fragility would still keep me at a maximum of 2), but given that there are grindy decks out there, I can't justify it.
There's a mono-G Devotion deck running around? I sw a couple of fringe lists last summer, but nothing since. Anyone care to hit me up with a link or something?
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
2 Cavern of Souls
7 Island
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Mutavault
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Wanderwine Hub
Spells
2 Sea's Claim
4 Spreading Seas
3 Spell Pierce
4 Aether Vial
4 Cursecatcher
3 Harbinger of the Tides
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Master of Waves
3 Merrow Reejerey
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Tidebinder Mage
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Echoing Truth
2 Negate
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tectonic Edge
2 Tidebinder Mage
2 Unified Will
Thoughts on a list like this? Also Anyone have thoughts on Cosi's Trickster making the deck as a 2 of? Right now, it seems like the aggro beats is very effective. With all the 3 color mana bases fetching, tron searching for lands,Scapeshift searching for lands, and Eldrazi using eye and map, it seems like she could get big really quick even without a lord buff. I currently run Tec Edge in the board, but if we are switching to Ghost quarters, that's even another shuffle. I'm running 6 seas, so 2 trickster would bring the 1 drop count to 14 (2 trickster, 4 cursecatcher,4 vial, 2 sea's claim, 2 spell pierce), which seems desirable.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
My manabase is similar, except -2 Wanderwine Hub, + 1 Island, + 1 Minamo and I haven't been having issues casting blue spells. That said, I'm not playing with spell pierce main, so I'm okay with T1 not being an island. YMMV.
There are some budget fringey versions that use Aspect of Hydra and Leatherback Baloth with Rancor, but it is fundamentally the same deck I haven't play against a version of it since BFZ was legal
If I'm referring to the wrong deck by all means correct me, but I was surprised at how little fight the deck had in it when I played against it.
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I believe the aspect of hydra/leatherback baloth is generally a different deck, more of a mono-g +1/+1 counter aggro.
I've seen different versions using cards like experiment one, avatar of the resolute, beast within, rancor, llanowar elves, etc.
Its much more aggressive, and can actually give us a run for our money simply due to how potentially explosive they can be, especially if they can block.
The big question you need to find out is what they're trying to ramp into.
Genesis wave? Beatable. Even if they have craterhoof, they won't necessarily have enough non-summonsick creatures after a wave to kill you, especially through a harbinger or tidebinder or snag. The prime time version is even easier, as we can potentially hit their wolfruns.
If its tooth and nail though, you need to be a bit more prepared, as they will instantly win (in a vast majority of games) if they get there.
Nonetheless, I don't think the deck in general is something to be concerned about, they get hit by pretty much all of our interaction barring dismember and sometimes spell pierce anyways.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I've also been having trouble with Rancor though. When they resolve it with an Etheral Armour (without a Daybreak), I haven't been able to race them.
U Merfolk | GR Tron | WUR Jeskai Control | WBG Abzan Company
EDH:
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader, Fighting for Rivendell
WU Brago, King Eternal, Long Live the King
WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon, Worship the Dragon
UMerfolkU
Legacy
UMerfolkU
Commander
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles At DeathRWB
As much as coronet sucks - I've found the trample aura's the most backbreaking. You can keep chumping coronet and generally swing with a ton of power via MoW etc - but trample will prob kill you. I play an extra Sea's Claim in the sb - I generally win when the mull (which is a lot) and can colour screw them
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
What do you take out for it? I think the best balance is in 3 each of Rejerey and Master of Waves, and 2 Phantasmal IMages, that way you have the 4th copy of the former cards if you need them, but still have a very good chance of drawing them. Maybe you can take out a Harbinger for a 3rd Image, but I don't know what we would remove beyond that.
The deck seems fairly well positioned now, and honestly it looks like a fun deck that is safe to buy into.
What are the main strengths and weaknesses of this deck? Is Affinity the only real bad match up?
2 seems to be en vogue right now because it offers a good mix of flexibility without flooding them in your hand. It's also hard to have too many of them because you don't get the benefit of Path when they're targeted, etc. You also need enough creatures to actually target, so if your hand is Cursecatcher, Image, Image or even Silvergil, Image, Image, you're in trouble.
That said, they have a lot of utility (if you go a few pages back you can see all the fun creatures we've copied), so perhaps running an extra in the board is worth exploring. For those of us that also play Merfolk in Legacy, 3 is often the right number, but I find them to more often copy other creatures in Legacy, whereas in modern I tend to want another Lord, Master of Waves, and occasionally Cursecatcher (saved me against UW Control yesterday).
4 Phantasmal Images is definitely excessive. The Image occupies a very fragile role in the Merfolk deck ecosystem in that it requires a board state apart from itself in order to do anything, which can be really bad against control decks with sweepers or midrange decks playing the attrition game, especially if they're using a manland (particularly a manland you'd be unable to activate) to finish you. If the meta were nothing but linear aggro and combo, there could be an argument for it (though its fragility would still keep me at a maximum of 2), but given that there are grindy decks out there, I can't justify it.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers: