Three points on which Vial is superior to CoCo: it's FAR cheaper to cast, it can get out more than just two Merfolk, and it can put out Master of Waves.
I was able to order one vial. Once I get my playset, I have no idea what to take out for number 4. Cursecatcher is going away once I get them. Also looking for fixes on my current build. For the elephant in the room, I feel Master works better in thr mono blue, but can be useful here, so I’m siding it
Right...I forgot you were talking about U/G, not mono-blue. I dunno...it just seems a bit unfocused to me. One thing that jumps out, though, is that I wouldn't scrimp on the Tricksters. I also don't think Kumena fits in the current meta; it's clunky and you're seldom going to get the chance to use any but its first ability.
Compare your list to Rothgar's Tropical Fish deck as a benchmark. Mana production aside, which do you think would perform better? Not necessarily head-to-head, but in your meta? (I have other issues with his build; chiefly that it doesn't have what I call a 'hammer,' or finisher like Master of Waves, and doesn't do very well against decks that can stabilize board state like UW Control. Also, nearly all of the disruption is in the SB. I tend to go with a few less creatures and more disruption in MD.)
Hit or miss. I currently like it vs. UW Control, Burn, and sometimes Storm and Tron, but that's a relatively narrow band of decks. If you want to test Mistcaller in that spot, I think it's worth a try.
Have you thought about running another 2 cmc creature like Harbinger of the tides instead? I feel like mistcaller is really good against CoCo decks but everything else it's just a 1 drop 1/1. Or do you prefer having them to curve better?
Have you thought about running another 2 cmc creature like Harbinger of the tides instead? I feel like mistcaller is really good against CoCo decks but everything else it's just a 1 drop 1/1. Or do you prefer having them to curve better?
Curve is critically important, yes. The benefit of extra Lords doesn't mean much unless you have bodies to project the buffs on.
Thanks Rothgar13 for your help. I've had plenty success at FNM but I've been to two PPTQs this season and it's been the complete opposite. I have about 4 more this season and just trying to find the optimal build for this deck.
Sure thing, bud. Good luck out there! Report back on how you do. I'd love to get your thoughts on how the deck runs for you. Right now, my decklist is very personalized to my tastes.
Rothgar13 this is what I'll play Friday and if all goes well Saturday as well. Sorry if you had already seen it. I made last minute changes today just because I haven't liked cursecatcher.
2 Breeding Pool
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Mutavault
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Trickster
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Harbinger of the Tides
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 Spreading Seas
2 Sea's Claim
4 Aether Vial
2 Dismember
SB: 2 Tidebinder Mage
SB: 4 Shapers' Sanctuary
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Natural State
SB: 3 Negate
Hey Rothgar if I wanted to adapt your UG list to play Collected Company in the sideboard instead of Shapers' Sanctuary, not necesarily as a 4 of, but maybe a 2 or 3 of. Would you bump the land count up to 20? or risk it with 18/19 lands? And what would you add? I was thinking maybe +1 Fetch and +1 Mutavault, or just 1 extra fetchland in detriment of some of the one drops. I just happen to have only the cocos in paper.
Cursecatcher is narrow?? UW is everywhere now especially in paper. Cursecatcher we need 100%
Except that UW Control is seldom short on mana and any player worth their snuff is going to play around Cursecatcher, since it has to be on the board to be used. All it might do is slow them down a very little.
Hey Rothgar if I wanted to adapt your UG list to play Collected Company in the sideboard instead of Shapers' Sanctuary, not necesarily as a 4 of, but maybe a 2 or 3 of. Would you bump the land count up to 20? or risk it with 18/19 lands? And what would you add? I was thinking maybe +1 Fetch and +1 Mutavault, or just 1 extra fetchland in detriment of some of the one drops. I just happen to have only the cocos in paper.
Truth be told, a Merfolk list using CoCo would look completely different. My list is not meant to cast 4-mana spells.
Cursecatcher is narrow?? UW is everywhere now especially in paper. Cursecatcher we need 100%
Except that UW Control is seldom short on mana and any player worth their snuff is going to play around Cursecatcher, since it has to be on the board to be used. All it might do is slow them down a very little.
Playing around them is not always a luxury they can afford. Mono-U is slower, so it might have a bit of a harder time, but my UG list crushes UW Control, and Cursecatcher plays a big role in that.
Cursecatcher is narrow?? UW is everywhere now especially in paper. Cursecatcher we need 100%
Except that UW Control is seldom short on mana and any player worth their snuff is going to play around Cursecatcher, since it has to be on the board to be used. All it might do is slow them down a very little.
slow down is not only what cursecatcher do, it is a creature for 1 mana and it pressure them using path and not wait for verdikt and use the point removal after. We dont have time like you all agree, so why i should put away cheap creatures and go long game
slow down is not only what cursecatcher do, it is a creature for 1 mana and it pressure them using path and not wait for verdikt and use the point removal after. We dont have time like you all agree, so why i should put away cheap creatures and go long game
I have long experience with Spell Pierce not working. What makes you think Cursecatcher will? Any good player knew I had it in the deck the second a Wanderwine Hub or merfolk hit the board game 1. If it's a grizzly bear you want, there are plenty of those, many of them with useful abilities. Dakra Mystic, Triton Shorethief (hello, 1/2), Triton Shorestalker or Mist-Cloaked Herald (unblockable), and several others that aren't quite so useful.
Nikachu is doing some pretty impressive work with Peek from what I've seen so far. I'd take that over Cursecatcher.
we had 40 players, 6 round swiss, cut to t8. the black splash idea was for leyline and tar-pit. i think 8 seas (the color screw aspect) is really hard to do. i only pulled it off 2 times but boy did my opponents react to it!
r1, Izzet Delver, 2-0.
SB +4 deprive, +4 gut shot. -8 seas.
r2, E.Tron, 1-2.
SB - none.
r3, Naya Burn, 1-2.
SB - none.
based off last week's modern GP, i chose my 1 of 2 decks that seemed better for the top 8 represented. had i played vs those decks instead of my local meta (i had priorities over testing the past 3 weeks,) i think i would've fared better. based off what actually happened today, my UR Prowess would've performed better, despite being weaker to last week's GP meta.
Let it be known that I think Cursecatcher is a pretty bad card. That being said, I do think it plays an important role in the deck in the current meta. We need a 1 drop play, and it really needs to be a creature (Peek is interesting but not good enough- note that Nikachu's 5-0 Peek list *also* features Cursecatcher). The format is just too fast for us to not be building up our board from the 1st turn. Cursecatcher is a weak card, especially compared to other modern staple 1-drop creatures, but it's certainly better than straight garbage like Dakra Mystic. Control does tend not to miss land drops, but forcing them to play Lightning Helix or Wrath of God off curve can make all the difference. All the moreso when you realize they sometimes get stuck with Celestial Colonnade for their land drop, which, coming into play tapped, won't help them get around the tax. True, Cursecatcher will be absolutely dead in the lategame, but personally, my experience with control has been that if we reach the lategame and they aren't either dead or nearly dead (with an untapped Vial or some Mutavaults on board to threaten them), the game is gonna be very hard for us to win regardless. That being said I can definitely see other choices depending on the metagame you expect to see. Mistcaller is very good vs Collected Company decks and Bridgevine (whose best openers can be *very* hard to beat without it- I honestly like to see it as much as or more than Relic here), or as Midnight Sun mentioned, Triton Shorestalker and Mist-Cloaked Herald, which are pretty terrible most of the time, but can actually be decent vs creature decks like Humans that don't play Islands in the games where you don't draw a Spreading Seas.
Dakra Mystic isn't nearly as bad as it tends to be portrayed. First, of course, it's a grizzly bear; no one is forcing you to use its ability. And it's not likely to get used against graveyard-manipulation decks unless you have a Relic to support it, i.e. games 2 and 3. (Mill-kill is pretty strong, even at the cost of a card, and you have the option whether to use it that way.) Yeah, you're not likely to be using it a lot in early game. But especially against certain 400-pound elephants (<cough>UW Control<cough>) it's pretty useful. You just have to know how to work it properly.
Having said that, I'd still prefer Peek. I'd trade that early grizzly bear for perfect information any day of the week. And it replaces itself? Sold. (Btw, guess how many times Nikachu used Cursecatcher's ability in that 5-0. He was siding it out left and right. And several of the games he won in those five matches because he had perfect info; there's no way he'd have found the right line otherwise.)
Unfortunately, my Modern deck is sort of a red-headed stepchild because I don't want to pay through the nose just to have electronic copies of my paper cards. It only gets played in person. So it tends to get neglected in comparison to my Standard decks...and I'm finally shaping a Standard mono-blue build that I like.
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)
3 Cursecatcher
3 Kumena’s Speaker
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
3 Harbringer of the Tide
3 Merfolk Trickster
4 Silvergill Adept
2 Merfolk Branchwalker
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
2 Kumena, Tyrant of Orazca
2 Merrow Reejerey
4 Spreading Seas
Spells: 2
2 Dismember
Lands: 20
2 Breeding Pool
2 Mutavault
4 Unclaimed Territory
2 Hinterland Harbor
6 Island
3 Forest
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Deprive
3 Master of Waves
2 Spell Pierce
2 Echoing Truth
2 Field of Ruin
Compare your list to Rothgar's Tropical Fish deck as a benchmark. Mana production aside, which do you think would perform better? Not necessarily head-to-head, but in your meta? (I have other issues with his build; chiefly that it doesn't have what I call a 'hammer,' or finisher like Master of Waves, and doesn't do very well against decks that can stabilize board state like UW Control. Also, nearly all of the disruption is in the SB. I tend to go with a few less creatures and more disruption in MD.)
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Curve is critically important, yes. The benefit of extra Lords doesn't mean much unless you have bodies to project the buffs on.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
2 Breeding Pool
4 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Botanical Sanctum
2 Mutavault
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Trickster
4 Merfolk Mistbinder
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Kumena's Speaker
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Harbinger of the Tides
3 Merrow Reejerey
4 Spreading Seas
2 Sea's Claim
4 Aether Vial
2 Dismember
SB: 2 Tidebinder Mage
SB: 4 Shapers' Sanctuary
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Natural State
SB: 3 Negate
http://goo.gl/9yHZOm
Except that UW Control is seldom short on mana and any player worth their snuff is going to play around Cursecatcher, since it has to be on the board to be used. All it might do is slow them down a very little.
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)
Truth be told, a Merfolk list using CoCo would look completely different. My list is not meant to cast 4-mana spells.
Playing around them is not always a luxury they can afford. Mono-U is slower, so it might have a bit of a harder time, but my UG list crushes UW Control, and Cursecatcher plays a big role in that.
Legacy: Merfolk U; Shadow UB; Eldrazi Stompy C
Pauper: Delver U
Vintage: Merfolk U
Primers:
I have long experience with Spell Pierce not working. What makes you think Cursecatcher will? Any good player knew I had it in the deck the second a Wanderwine Hub or merfolk hit the board game 1. If it's a grizzly bear you want, there are plenty of those, many of them with useful abilities. Dakra Mystic, Triton Shorethief (hello, 1/2), Triton Shorestalker or Mist-Cloaked Herald (unblockable), and several others that aren't quite so useful.
Nikachu is doing some pretty impressive work with Peek from what I've seen so far. I'd take that over Cursecatcher.
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)
9 island
4 creeping tar-pit
4 darkslick shores
2 cavern of souls
1 swamp
(24) creatures:
4 harbinger of the tides
4 lord of atlantis
4 master of the pearl trident
4 merfolk trickster
4 phantasmal image
4 silvergil adept
4 sea's claim
4 spreading seas
(4) artifacts:
4 aether vial
(4) instants:
4 echoing truth
4 deprive
4 gut shot
4 leyline of the void
3 spellskite
we had 40 players, 6 round swiss, cut to t8. the black splash idea was for leyline and tar-pit. i think 8 seas (the color screw aspect) is really hard to do. i only pulled it off 2 times but boy did my opponents react to it!
r1, Izzet Delver, 2-0.
SB +4 deprive, +4 gut shot. -8 seas.
r2, E.Tron, 1-2.
SB - none.
r3, Naya Burn, 1-2.
SB - none.
based off last week's modern GP, i chose my 1 of 2 decks that seemed better for the top 8 represented. had i played vs those decks instead of my local meta (i had priorities over testing the past 3 weeks,) i think i would've fared better. based off what actually happened today, my UR Prowess would've performed better, despite being weaker to last week's GP meta.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo
Having said that, I'd still prefer Peek. I'd trade that early grizzly bear for perfect information any day of the week. And it replaces itself? Sold. (Btw, guess how many times Nikachu used Cursecatcher's ability in that 5-0. He was siding it out left and right. And several of the games he won in those five matches because he had perfect info; there's no way he'd have found the right line otherwise.)
Unfortunately, my Modern deck is sort of a red-headed stepchild because I don't want to pay through the nose just to have electronic copies of my paper cards. It only gets played in person. So it tends to get neglected in comparison to my Standard decks...and I'm finally shaping a Standard mono-blue build that I like.
Standard: Fileted By Fish (UG aggro Merfolk), A Fine Kettle of Fish (UG swarm Merfolk), The Deep Blue Sea-People II (Umidrange Merfolk/Wizards),
Greek Fire (UR Wizards), Riptide (U Tempo)
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB