MTG Salvation

Is anyone using Fatal Push?
I decided it was better to stick with 4 path, 2 abrupt decay, because usually the creatures I really need removal for are bombs like wormcoil and primeval titan.
Curious what you-all think, though.

Quote from Gary238 »

Is anyone using Fatal Push?
I decided it was better to stick with 4 path, 2 abrupt decay, because usually the creatures I really need removal for are bombs like wormcoil and primeval titan.
Curious what you-all think, though.

I haven't tried them. As a matter of fact, I actually don't own Fatal Push. It doesn't seem necessary in this deck.

I played at a small FNM (my store shut down, so I went across the freeway). 12-16 players or so for 4 rounds.

Round 1 vs. Grixis Control. Not much to see here. I cast some creatures, braved some removal, and swung until he died. In game 1, he did a Kolaghan's Command for 2 damage to a Loxodon Smiter and to make me discard, but I had another Smiter. Bolt finished the first Smiter, but this made it pretty easy. My other card in hand was Lingering Souls. I put the pressure on him in the next game, except a Thoughtseize made his hand much worse and he sat on Dispel for the game, although I also sat on Path to Exile. 2-0.

Round 2 vs. UB Control. This guy is trying to make this deck work. He usually plays Titan Shift. In the first game, he had a lot of timely removal and despite the fact that I had a lot of pressure and rebuilds of board state, he couldn't get over the hump. I figured that the last 3 cards in hand were the other 3 Snapcaster Mage and the last Cryptic Command, but he scooped once I attacked. So I guess it was something else. In the next game, it was similar, but he way fewer cards. He was doing the Yahenni's Expertise/Ancestral Vision combo, so that was pretty sweet, nailing Soul's tokens in the process. 2-0.

Round 3 vs. Next Level Junk. You know the deck. Blood Artist, Zulaport Cutthroat, Collected Company, Return to the Ranks. In the first game, he stalled on 2 lands for a turn, but I Path to Exiled his Voice of Resurgence instead of Blood Artist. That probably was a mistake because he barely survived, CoCo'd into a creature and Cutthroat, and then basically "creature'd me out." In the next game, I put a lot of early pressure on him with Bop into Souls into Siege Rhino. Then I finish with a bunch of removal - 2 Path to Exile and 1 Abrupt Decay with a Scooze to prevent the Melira combo that he sided into. In the last game, I keep on Mana Dork, Souls, and hope to draw Gavony Township. I don't, but I have an extremely good curve and I nail the only non-land card in his hand with Thoughtseize and he doesn't have enough for my 2 Lingering Souls draw. He Chorded for 3, but told me that he couldn't find his Orzhov Pontiff before he came to the store. I was prepared to lose 6 Souls and 2 BoPs. 2-1.

Round 4 vs. Titan Shift. The guy from round 2's deck. This player usually is on Jund, so I should have normally had a solid matchup. Instead, I race him with the perfect curve, take Farseek instead of Scapeshift and Prime Time, and dodge any more ramp spells to win before he can win. He also didn't realize that Scapeshift with 6 lands in play doesn't accomplish much. In the next game, I have solid pressure, slowed by Sakura Tribe-Elder, but he has the turn 4 Scapeshift for lethal. I had an option to play Siege Rhino before Path to Exile on Titan and combat to stay at 1 life after his Valakut triggers with an empty hand for him, but literally I would need him to draw the last 3 Khalni Heart Expeditions on 3 consecutive turns to win. In the last game, I put a lot of pressure on him and he scoops with me safely at 22 life. He made a mistake of not using a fetchland with his Khalni Heart Expedition to have 3 counters instead of 2. He would have been able to wipe most of my field next turn and leave himself with a Titan, of which Path to Exile only slows down a little bit. 2-1.

I get 4-0 with this deck, for 1st place. It's a solid deck, but a bit boring for my tastes. I may continue to play it to hopefully push the metagame back to where I can do well with my more fun decks. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to be able to beat 2 matchups that are probably close to 50/50 and 2 matchups that I probably should lose (the last 2 rounds), but it's not really my cup of tea. Not to mention, I was on the draw all 4 rounds in game 1, but that's not really new for me. (I've won 4 of the last 25 die rolls before this tournament, so I really need to play decks that can win on the draw.)

Quote from FoodChainGoblins »

Quote from Gary238 »

Is anyone using Fatal Push?
I decided it was better to stick with 4 path, 2 abrupt decay, because usually the creatures I really need removal for are bombs like wormcoil and primeval titan.
Curious what you-all think, though.

I haven't tried them. As a matter of fact, I actually don't own Fatal Push. It doesn't seem necessary in this deck.

I played at a small FNM (my store shut down, so I went across the freeway). 12-16 players or so for 4 rounds.

Round 1 vs. Grixis Control. Not much to see here. I cast some creatures, braved some removal, and swung until he died. In game 1, he did a Kolaghan's Command for 2 damage to a Loxodon Smiter and to make me discard, but I had another Smiter. Bolt finished the first Smiter, but this made it pretty easy. My other card in hand was Lingering Souls. I put the pressure on him in the next game, except a Thoughtseize made his hand much worse and he sat on Dispel for the game, although I also sat on Path to Exile. 2-0.

Round 2 vs. UB Control. This guy is trying to make this deck work. He usually plays Titan Shift. In the first game, he had a lot of timely removal and despite the fact that I had a lot of pressure and rebuilds of board state, he couldn't get over the hump. I figured that the last 3 cards in hand were the other 3 Snapcaster Mage and the last Cryptic Command, but he scooped once I attacked. So I guess it was something else. In the next game, it was similar, but he way fewer cards. He was doing the Yahenni's Expertise/Ancestral Vision combo, so that was pretty sweet, nailing Soul's tokens in the process. 2-0.

Round 3 vs. Next Level Junk. You know the deck. Blood Artist, Zulaport Cutthroat, Collected Company, Return to the Ranks. In the first game, he stalled on 2 lands for a turn, but I Path to Exiled his Voice of Resurgence instead of Blood Artist. That probably was a mistake because he barely survived, CoCo'd into a creature and Cutthroat, and then basically "creature'd me out." In the next game, I put a lot of early pressure on him with Bop into Souls into Siege Rhino. Then I finish with a bunch of removal - 2 Path to Exile and 1 Abrupt Decay with a Scooze to prevent the Melira combo that he sided into. In the last game, I keep on Mana Dork, Souls, and hope to draw Gavony Township. I don't, but I have an extremely good curve and I nail the only non-land card in his hand with Thoughtseize and he doesn't have enough for my 2 Lingering Souls draw. He Chorded for 3, but told me that he couldn't find his Orzhov Pontiff before he came to the store. I was prepared to lose 6 Souls and 2 BoPs. 2-1.

Round 4 vs. Titan Shift. The guy from round 2's deck. This player usually is on Jund, so I should have normally had a solid matchup. Instead, I race him with the perfect curve, take Farseek instead of Scapeshift and Prime Time, and dodge any more ramp spells to win before he can win. He also didn't realize that Scapeshift with 6 lands in play doesn't accomplish much. In the next game, I have solid pressure, slowed by Sakura Tribe-Elder, but he has the turn 4 Scapeshift for lethal. I had an option to play Siege Rhino before Path to Exile on Titan and combat to stay at 1 life after his Valakut triggers with an empty hand for him, but literally I would need him to draw the last 3 Khalni Heart Expeditions on 3 consecutive turns to win. In the last game, I put a lot of pressure on him and he scoops with me safely at 22 life. He made a mistake of not using a fetchland with his Khalni Heart Expedition to have 3 counters instead of 2. He would have been able to wipe most of my field next turn and leave himself with a Titan, of which Path to Exile only slows down a little bit. 2-1.

I get 4-0 with this deck, for 1st place. It's a solid deck, but a bit boring for my tastes. I may continue to play it to hopefully push the metagame back to where I can do well with my more fun decks. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to be able to beat 2 matchups that are probably close to 50/50 and 2 matchups that I probably should lose (the last 2 rounds), but it's not really my cup of tea. Not to mention, I was on the draw all 4 rounds in game 1, but that's not really new for me. (I've won 4 of the last 25 die rolls before this tournament, so I really need to play decks that can win on the draw.)

Thx for the report! Usually I play this deck or Abzan Company, that is more spicy.

DH care to share your list? I put the deck down since GP Charlotte back in 2014 after a day 2. I'm considering playing this for the team SCG Open.

Quote from Golgari4Life »

DH care to share your list? I put the deck down since GP Charlotte back in 2014 after a day 2. I'm considering playing this for the team SCG Open.

Sure!



Mimic Vat is a flex spot that I like a lot on my LGS meta. It can be replaced by a Sword or Worship. I havent been playing with this deck for a few months, because Im now living in a new city and didnt have time to play yet

Hey,

I think it should run more noble hierarch and also maybe a Qasali pridemage. Why unmaking? Also blood baron and thrun might be solid sideboard slots to consider.

I think the reason why more birds is that sometimes, there are chances you won't be able to cast Anafenza on turn 2 if you have a turn 1 hierarch.

I still think you should run 3-4 hierarch tho... the exalted bonus is huge. You can make your smiter swing over a 4/5 goyf.

I haven't touched the deck for a while now, I want to start building it again.

So what you guys think of new metagame changes? Do you think Abzan Liege is still competitive? Would you want 3 Patal Push in your maindeck?

Different from Abzan Company, I only run 2 Gavony. This choice makes the dorks less appealable. I only have 2 noble, so maybe I could run 3/3. But the black mana helps a lot too, and it flies. Qasali pridemage was supposed to be good, but most of the times was just "meh", so I decided to take it out as I run 2 decays and 1 Pulse MB. Unmaking was there because of the Tron Meta, where I needed to exile anything at instant speed and for Nahiri too, but I will change it for a Fatal Push (maybe taking out one decay for one more fatal push).

I have a Maybeboard list

Maybeboard (7)
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of War and Peace
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1x Worship

And yes, this deck is aleways competitive, just like jund. Sometimes it is better, sometimes not.

I've been fiddling with this deck too, trying to figure out where newer cards will help us. I'm definitely sold on 8 dorks and 3 township. I always want to lead with acceleration, and I want township in every game that goes long. Souls / Township is just so strong.

Here's my latest. The sideboard is a bit of a mess, and makes some concessions to budget:


I liked having maindeck pridemage, but agree that he didn't do quite enough to make the cut. I went up to 23 land in order to fit the third township without skimping on colored sources, and cut the third Wilt-Leaf Liege to make room. Liege is great at closing games when we're ahead, but is pretty lackluster when we don't have much of a board. It's also a beating when he's removed during combat, so I decided to go down to 2.

Ran the deck again. (Why mess with a good thing?) 10 person FNM for 4 rounds.

Round 1 vs. Jund. I have too many creatures and his Dark Confidant can't get him back into the game. I win by running out a Wilt-Leaf Liege which I had saved to limit the effectiveness of his Liliana of the Veil to let 2 tokens get in for lethal. In the next game, I get too much pressure again and finish him with Zealous Persecution on 2 tokens and a Voice token for exact lethal after he tapped out. EoT Path to Exile on Scooze. 2-0.

Round 2 vs. Jund. I get too much pressure for him and he scoops it up. In the next game, an active Dark Confidant gets him there with 4 land and a Scooze shown. The 2nd Dark Confidant late makes sure that he gets through for lethal by moving a blocker out of the way and Treetop Village getting through. In the last game, I get creature after creature and get there by drawing Lingering Souls into Siege Rhino on consecutive turns after we were nearly at parity. 2-1.

Round 3 vs. Bushwhacker Zoo. In the first game, he plays Wild Nacatl into a Goblin Guide on each of the next few turns. It is just too much pressure and even though I get Gavony Township barely going, he kills me with Atarka's Command. In the next few games, I get so many bodies that his creatures can't get through. The last game had me on Obstinate Baloth and Siege Rhino to go along with Souls tokens for an easy win vs. no real pressure. 2-1.

Round 4 vs. Abzan Company. He put a million creatures on board, but Lingering Souls tokens put him at lethal with Melira and Viscera Seer in play, but no cards in hand. He drew Kitchen Finks for the turn (1 was exiled already) and went from 2 life to a million. In the next game, I just simply couldn't get past 2 mana, my Birds of Paradise getting Fatal Pushed and Noble Hierarch being killed along with 4 Lingering Souls tokens by Orzhov Pontiff. Then he Chorded twice for Viscera Seer and Murderous Redcap with Melira in play after I drew a land to play Kitchen Finks. I have 2 Voice of Resurgence in hand and Rhino. 0-2.

I get 2nd place at 3-1. I was disappointed to lose the final match, but it happens. I am now 10-1-1 with this deck (3-0-1, 4-0, and 3-1). It seems like a good choice in this small meta, but I think I'm going all out in Tron or Skred Red next week.

Tron's match with Melira Abzan an isn't that great. They have both combos to quickly finish you off and you will have less interaction.

Good showing though.

Quote from chaos021 »

Tron's match with Melira Abzan an isn't that great. They have both combos to quickly finish you off and you will have less interaction.

Good showing though.

I played Abzan Company for a month when Collected Company came out (Twin was still legal) and I found Tron to be nearly unwinnable (I should state it was GR Tron). I decided to not put cards in the SB for Tron unless they were for something else as well since it seemed to be futile to try to beat them. I guess in theory, they could miss Tron and you could be on the play with turn 3 Collected Company up, but in practice (at least for me), it never played out like that.

I should also say that the guy makes small changes to his deck choices week in and week out to metagame. He was the one on Next Level Abzan in my report from the previous page. He also plays UWR variants and all kinds of Junk variants (death and taxes, etc., etc.) But I don't think he has Goyf or Lily.

It's been a while since I posted in here but I'm still playing Abzan Midrange Beatdown so I figured I'd post an update. Current list:



A few notes on updates:

8 Dorks
This whole list is built around making 8 dorks good - it's the originally concept I used when building it. The main cards that are focused on this are Gavony Township, Wilt-Leaf Liege, Collective Brutality (extra dorks are good discard fodder), Voice of Resurgence (sort of), and Distended Mindbender.

Anafenza the Foremost
I played with this card forever and in the end it just wasn't doing enough against decks that utilize their graveyard. The +1/+1 counter's are pretty nice, especially with 8 dorks, but in the end it just wasn't doing enough. I prefer running the sideboard Leyline of the Voids.

Thalia, Heretic Cathar
This card is terrible against red decks, but it has single handily won me numerous games. It excels against combo (especially Tron) and against other creature decks that want to gum up the board. Once you combine it with the sideboard Thoughtseize and Distended Mindbender you no longer struggle against Tron, Scapeshift, Eldrazi, Ad Nas, and a whole host of lower tier decks.

Collective Brutality
This card is the stone cold nuts in this shell. The 8 mana dorks give you extra discard fodder for it and late game I've used it to kill my opponent numerous times. I rarely board it out.

Painful Truths
God I love having these in the mainboard. Your deck gains so much life that it's very little cost and 3 cards for 3 mana is just an unbelievable rate.

Eidolon of Rhetoric
I just put this in so I haven't gotten to try it yet but I theorize it'll excel in quite a few important match-ups. Of course it's great against Infect, Snapcaster Mage decks, and storm, but it also shuts down Cheeri0s and Kari Zev's Expertise + Breaking and Entering.

I ran this tonight at MNM and got clobbered.

Round 1 vs. Enchantress. This guy only plays this deck and has been tweaking it for over a year now. He mulled to 5 cards. I get off to a good start and have him at 2 life, despite a Herald of the Pantheon gaining life. He has 1 presumably useless card in hand but draws Sphere of Safety (approximately the millionth time he has done this to me a turn before lethal in past matches) and I scoop. I have Qasali Pridemage as a 3 of in the deck, but by the time I draw it, he will have drawn a million cards from Verduran Enchantress or Eidolon of Blossoms and be at nearly a million life from Herald of the Pantheon. I check my top of the library after scooping. On the turn when I knocked him down to 2 life, had White mana open and 2 cards in hand. Path to Exile was my next card after he drew the Sphere. Yep. Every draw I had this game was land, but it helped me pay for the Ghostly Prison before the Sphere hit. In the next game, I keep a 2 land hand and draw no lands. I do turn 2 Loxodon Smiter after he does turn 1 Utopia Sprawl. I considered Abrupt Decay, but wanted to get on board. Big mistake as Arbor Elf, another Utopia Sprawl, and Greater Auramancy all hit the board next turn. I do Abrupt Decay on his Greater Auramancy because I have another Abrupt Decay and Qasali Pridemages still in, but he does Assemble the Legion and Sphere of Safety the next turn. I draw Zealous Persecution and get the 2 Arbor Elves the turn after he used 10 mana. I scoop as this game was not meant for me. 0-2.

Round 2 vs. Affinity. In the first game, I used Path to Exile and 2 Qasali Pridemage to grind him out with a Siege Rhino getting it done. In the next game, he does Whipflare, then swings to put me from 8 to 1 life with Etched Champion in play. I had 4 Souls tokens, Siege Rhino, and an active Gavony Township in play with him at 13. In the last game, I killed some cards, but he had Arcbound Ravager and used it immediately to put Inkmoth Nexus to a 5/5 and swing me to 5 poison with Inkmoth and Blinkmoth only in play. I have Siege Rhino, BoP, and Engineered Explosives in hand. I draw 2 lands and lose. 1-2.

Round 3 vs. Mono Blue Tron. I race him and have the Path to Exile in time. In the next game, Platinum Angel has him at -28 life while I try to find Qasali Pridemage or Path to Exile. It turned out that he had 3 Condescend in hand, so it would have taken me a while to get past that or 3 answers in the same turn. He drew Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and it was over a few turns later. I had 5 mana dorks and 6 Souls tokens exiled, along with Stony Silence, Voice of Resurgence, and Scavenging Ooze. In the last game, I just had the pressure and the answer to the creature in my way. 2-1.

Round 3 vs. Eldrazi Tron with Green. In game 1, I do Loxodon Smiter into Siege Rhino to put him at 12 life. He does turn 3 All is Dust, which I did not expect or I would have done Thoughtseize. I also had Wilt-Leaf Liege, so my play was to turn 4 Thoughtseize and Wilt-Leaf Liege as well. I get there a few turns later with more pressure and a Path to Exile. Double Wilt-Leaf Liege for the first time! The next game is similar and I just have to much pressure for him. Even with some creatures and a newly cast Walking Ballista in play, I have Gavony Township, so I wait for the Ballista to die, not doing Gavony since next turn is lethal any way. I win 2-0.

I finish 2-2, going down to 12-3-1 with the deck.

Is there currently a go-to list for someone picking this deck up?

Quote from Ethon »

Is there currently a go-to list for someone picking this deck up?

Sorta. Kinda. Not really?

It's more like Todd Anderson's "Temur Box" for Modern if you're familiar with him or his "box." Instead, we have an "Abzan Box." We all pretty much pull from a general box of creatures that fit our theme. The creatures each of us use is largely based on what type of other decks we expect to see. Some cards are pretty much staples, such as Noble Hierarch and Siege Rhino. Others are really popular, such as Birds of Paradise and Kitchen Finks. I guess a better way to look at this is what kind of hate do you need for your expected metagame?

I recently saw this list that showed some results: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-abzan-34548#paper
One thing that intrigues me is that it runs a much heavier disruptive suit, so I decided to create a list based off of that.

I'm a little afraid that by going this route, the deck will just turn into a bad version of straight mid Abzan. Any thoughts?

EDIT: Also, has anyone tested Renegade Rallier?

Yup, that's what will happen.

While I love Abzan Liege (I ran it for quite some time) since it's mid-range, heavy on creatures, and is very flexible, the deck really feels like a stepping stone until you get your goyfs and LotVs. For a $1000 deck, I would've loved if it put up more results.
Renegade Rallier does feel like a good card but might not be right in this deck. I haven't tested it though.

Personal thoughts on the deck:
I don't like the idea of running 4 mana dorks total, feels very clunky as you're more likely to draw Noble Hierarch than have her in your opening hand. I would suggest either go with 6-7 discard or 6-7 mana dorks.
My preferred mana sequence was G->W->B which always worked for me as you get to drop something every turn but in your case if you start with black, it could get awkward to drop Voice of Resurgence which is arguably your best 2 drop.
I don't like Anafenza, the Foremost over Loxodon Smiter because this deck is designed to beat Jund and Loxodon is the reason they don't tick up Lili.

@Ethon, it is a bad version of traditional Abzan. I don't even understand the point of having Fatal Push.