I picked up this deck 2-3 months ago and have had great success with some unorthodox choices. I'll lay out my list, talk about a few of the principles I used when building it, and talk about some of the less common cards choices.
1. Certain common inclusions were established during a meta that doesn't exist anymore
My two big non-inclusions are Loxodon Smiter and Qasali Pridemage. Counter magic just isn't good right now, it was never as strong against creatures as it is against spells, and any Jund player worth there snot is going to ID your deck and not plus Liliana of the Veil. I realize that there are uses for Qasali Pridemage but frankly, it got into this deck because of Splinter Twin and those days are gone.
2. You need to maximize the number of sideboard cards that are also threats
We're an aggro deck and want to play that role in almost every match-up. This is the rationale behind the following sideboard choices I'll explain below: Shriekmaw, Distended Mindbender, and Scavenging Ooze
3. Jund is bad right now
The meta is pretty stacked with fast combo that Jund/Abzan/Grixis Midrange-Control decks are not favored against. This is why I'm leaving cards like Painful Truths and Sigarda, Host of Herons out of my sideboard. I get that they're good but we have to make sacrifices somewhere.
Select Card Choices
1.Thalia, Heretic Cathar
This card has been the stone cold nuts for me. Turn 2 Thalia, even on the draw, has won me every game I've played against Eldrazi, Tron, Scapeshift, and Ad Nas. I get that it's bad against Lightning Bolt but not every card can be perfect against everything and this goes a long way to shoring up some tough match-ups. This card performs best with 8 dorks.
2. Anafenza, the Foremost
Part of the reason I'm playing a fetchland manabase over fast lands is to up the black sources for Anafenza. Her abilities are more relevant right now than Loxodon Smiter, especially the +1/+1 counters. This plus Gavony Township makes running 8 dorks better.
3. Shriekmaw
I'm in love with this card. It's extra removal for when you need it, bonkers against Eldrazi, and makes up for not having cards to bring in against Jund. It also gets bonus points for not getting countered by Spell Snare or Spell Pierce
4. Distended Mindbender
I've just started testing this. I've cast it twice, once against Bant Eldrazi and once against Grixis Control. It was game over both times. One of the best ways to emerge it is off of 4 lands and 2 dorks, saccing one of them. I anticipate that this is good against a lot of combo and helps keep your clock going.
5. Scavenging Ooze
Honestly I haven't played Dredge yet. I don't know if Scooze plus Anafenza plus lots of good blockers is going to be enough. However, Scooze is good against any deck trying to use the graveyard and serviceable against Burn.
I picked up this deck 2-3 months ago and have had great success with some unorthodox choices. I'll lay out my list, talk about a few of the principles I used when building it, and talk about some of the less common cards choices.
1. Certain common inclusions were established during a meta that doesn't exist anymore
My two big non-inclusions are Loxodon Smiter and Qasali Pridemage. Counter magic just isn't good right now, it was never as strong against creatures as it is against spells, and any Jund player worth there snot is going to ID your deck and not plus Liliana of the Veil. I realize that there are uses for Qasali Pridemage but frankly, it got into this deck because of Splinter Twin and those days are gone.
2. You need to maximize the number of sideboard cards that are also threats
We're an aggro deck and want to play that role in almost every match-up. This is the rationale behind the following sideboard choices I'll explain below: Shriekmaw, Distended Mindbender, and Scavenging Ooze
3. Jund is bad right now
The meta is pretty stacked with fast combo that Jund/Abzan/Grixis Midrange-Control decks are not favored against. This is why I'm leaving cards like Painful Truths and Sigarda, Host of Herons out of my sideboard. I get that they're good but we have to make sacrifices somewhere.
Select Card Choices
1.Thalia, Heretic Cathar
This card has been the stone cold nuts for me. Turn 2 Thalia, even on the draw, has won me every game I've played against Eldrazi, Tron, Scapeshift, and Ad Nas. I get that it's bad against Lightning Bolt but not every card can be perfect against everything and this goes a long way to shoring up some tough match-ups. This card performs best with 8 dorks.
2. Anafenza, the Foremost
Part of the reason I'm playing a fetchland manabase over fast lands is to up the black sources for Anafenza. Her abilities are more relevant right now than Loxodon Smiter, especially the +1/+1 counters. This plus Gavony Township makes running 8 dorks better.
3. Shriekmaw
I'm in love with this card. It's extra removal for when you need it, bonkers against Eldrazi, and makes up for not having cards to bring in against Jund. It also gets bonus points for not getting countered by Spell Snare or Spell Pierce
4. Distended Mindbender
I've just started testing this. I've cast it twice, once against Bant Eldrazi and once against Grixis Control. It was game over both times. One of the best ways to emerge it is off of 4 lands and 2 dorks, saccing one of them. I anticipate that this is good against a lot of combo and helps keep your clock going.
5. Scavenging Ooze
Honestly I haven't played Dredge yet. I don't know if Scooze plus Anafenza plus lots of good blockers is going to be enough. However, Scooze is good against any deck trying to use the graveyard and serviceable against Burn.
Nice list. I have changed the scooze on this deck for the anafenza too, it is 4/4, stops dredge just in time, can reset finks and get two +1+1 from Leaf. Do you think that the 3 gavony + 8 dorks worth? I think it is too much and situational. I was wondering about replacing my 2 elephants for the 2 new Thalia, the downside is that she has a weaker body and gets only one +1+1 from leaf, where the deck becomes less wilders, but slowing up the opponent is a plus. I think you have too few removal main deck, this deck struggle against some combo decks...
A very interesting list, indeed. I have to ask, how useful is it to have a 2 of Thoughtseize MD? Seems unnecessary. I did goldfish the deck on TO and it is surprisingly consistent getting 3 colored mana on t2/t3. I was skeptic at first given the 3 Gavony Townships. Regarding Distended Mindbender, he seems very expensive even if you sac a mana dork, you still need to pay 5 mana.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
I just like that Thougthseize is a catch all spell. I've thought about swapping it for Abrupt Decay since that makes them spend their mana first but Thoughtseize is better against combo. I also tried Scooze in that slot but Thoughtseize is just so universally applicable.
Distended Mindbender is expensive, but I see cards like it as payoff for running the full 8 dorks - which is the original reason I decided to run this deck. I just love how good it is at making dorks a less than terrible topdeck later in the game. Time will tell though, I don't have that much experience with Distended Mindbender yet.
Honestly I love having 8 dorks and 3 township. While I haven't measured, it seems like I win far more games with turn 1 dork and having Anafenza plus 3 township helps you keep them from being such bad draws in the late game.
Thalia has really helped with Tron, Ad Nas, and Eldrazi specifically. Frankly I'm kind of in love with the card, even though it gets boarded out in quite a few match-ups. It's just never completely useless and helps you get some badly needed game 1 wins against those decks.
I run 2 thoughtseize as a hedge against these type decks as sort of a replacement for more removal, but I've definitely considered trying to get 2 Abrupt decay in the main board. What would you take out if you did put in more removal?
I picked up this deck 2-3 months ago and have had great success with some unorthodox choices. I'll lay out my list, talk about a few of the principles I used when building it, and talk about some of the less common cards choices.
1. Certain common inclusions were established during a meta that doesn't exist anymore
My two big non-inclusions are Loxodon Smiter and Qasali Pridemage. Counter magic just isn't good right now, it was never as strong against creatures as it is against spells, and any Jund player worth there snot is going to ID your deck and not plus Liliana of the Veil. I realize that there are uses for Qasali Pridemage but frankly, it got into this deck because of Splinter Twin and those days are gone.
2. You need to maximize the number of sideboard cards that are also threats
We're an aggro deck and want to play that role in almost every match-up. This is the rationale behind the following sideboard choices I'll explain below: Shriekmaw, Distended Mindbender, and Scavenging Ooze
3. Jund is bad right now
The meta is pretty stacked with fast combo that Jund/Abzan/Grixis Midrange-Control decks are not favored against. This is why I'm leaving cards like Painful Truths and Sigarda, Host of Herons out of my sideboard. I get that they're good but we have to make sacrifices somewhere.
Select Card Choices
1.Thalia, Heretic Cathar
This card has been the stone cold nuts for me. Turn 2 Thalia, even on the draw, has won me every game I've played against Eldrazi, Tron, Scapeshift, and Ad Nas. I get that it's bad against Lightning Bolt but not every card can be perfect against everything and this goes a long way to shoring up some tough match-ups. This card performs best with 8 dorks.
2. Anafenza, the Foremost
Part of the reason I'm playing a fetchland manabase over fast lands is to up the black sources for Anafenza. Her abilities are more relevant right now than Loxodon Smiter, especially the +1/+1 counters. This plus Gavony Township makes running 8 dorks better.
3. Shriekmaw
I'm in love with this card. It's extra removal for when you need it, bonkers against Eldrazi, and makes up for not having cards to bring in against Jund. It also gets bonus points for not getting countered by Spell Snare or Spell Pierce
4. Distended Mindbender
I've just started testing this. I've cast it twice, once against Bant Eldrazi and once against Grixis Control. It was game over both times. One of the best ways to emerge it is off of 4 lands and 2 dorks, saccing one of them. I anticipate that this is good against a lot of combo and helps keep your clock going.
5. Scavenging Ooze
Honestly I haven't played Dredge yet. I don't know if Scooze plus Anafenza plus lots of good blockers is going to be enough. However, Scooze is good against any deck trying to use the graveyard and serviceable against Burn.
Nice list. I have changed the scooze on this deck for the anafenza too, it is 4/4, stops dredge just in time, can reset finks and get two +1+1 from Leaf. Do you think that the 3 gavony + 8 dorks worth? I think it is too much and situational. I was wondering about replacing my 2 elephants for the 2 new Thalia, the downside is that she has a weaker body and gets only one +1+1 from leaf, where the deck becomes less wilders, but slowing up the opponent is a plus. I think you have too few removal main deck, this deck struggle against some combo decks...
Honestly I love having 8 dorks and 3 township. While I haven't measured, it seems like I win far more games with turn 1 dork and having Anafenza plus 3 township helps you keep them from being such bad draws in the late game.
Thalia has really helped with Tron, Ad Nas, and Eldrazi specifically. Frankly I'm kind of in love with the card, even though it gets boarded out in quite a few match-ups. It's just never completely useless and helps you get some badly needed game 1 wins against those decks.
I run 2 thoughtseize as a hedge against these type decks as sort of a replacement for more removal, but I've definitely considered trying to get 2 Abrupt decay in the main board. What would you take out if you did put in more removal?
Honestly I love having 8 dorks and 3 township. While I haven't measured, it seems like I win far more games with turn 1 dork and having Anafenza plus 3 township helps you keep them from being such bad draws in the late game.
Thalia has really helped with Tron, Ad Nas, and Eldrazi specifically. Frankly I'm kind of in love with the card, even though it gets boarded out in quite a few match-ups. It's just never completely useless and helps you get some badly needed game 1 wins against those decks.
I run 2 thoughtseize as a hedge against these type decks as sort of a replacement for more removal, but I've definitely considered trying to get 2 Abrupt decay in the main board. What would you take out if you did put in more removal?
I would remove 1 Anafenza and 1 Thalia, I think 3 of a legendary card is too much. You now have 2 more slots for 2 more finks or 2 more removal (I would let the TS SB btw).
I'm now running 1 in the sideboard and it's awesome. It's fantastic against infect, burn, and Jund/Junk and quasi-useful in a bunch of other scenarios.
The deck seems like it might be in a good place fairly soon. Fatal push could be a nice addition and it hurts the blazing fast decks. The new ban announcements hurt infect and suicide zoo. There could be a large uptick in mid-range decks (particularly GX mid-range), which are our best matchups.
The deck seems like it might be in a good place fairly soon. Fatal push could be a nice addition and it hurts the blazing fast decks. The new ban announcements hurt infect and suicide zoo. There could be a large uptick in mid-range decks (particularly GX mid-range), which are our best matchups.
So I played this at a MNM. The last time I played here, I played against 2 Mono Black Rack and 2 Burns, so I figured I'd metagame. I even put 2 Obstinate Baloth in the side with 3 Engineered Explosives. Here's how the rounds went.
Round 1 vs. Enchantress. I always lose to this guy. This time, he locks me out in the first game and starts getting momentum, drawing a buttload of cards. He has double Sphere of Safety by turn 4 on the play, so no attacking for me this game until I get a Qasali Pridemage. In the next game, I have a super quick clock after a mull to 6 and Abrupt Decay for Journey to Nowhere, letting my Rhino do lethal. In the last game, he stalled on 2 land with double Ghostly Prison, double Sphere of Safety, and Blood Moon in hand. By the time he drew a land, it was too late. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Affinity. In the first game after losing another die roll, he gets me with Etched Champion and Cranial Plating on turn 5 for lethal (2 swings). In the next 2 games, I get some Engineered Explosives, Stony Silence, Lingering Souls, and then the Rhino/Liege draw to easily win. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Budget UR Kiln Fiend. He gets me with double Mutagenic Growth after 2 Swiftspears on the play. No life gain for me. In the next 2 games, I get a quick clock with defense and go in with Souls and Gavony Township in the last game. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Bant Eldrazi. We are the only two 3-0 players, so we split. 0-0-3.
I fiish 3-0-1, which wasn't bad for a deck that I brought to face 2 decks. (although UR Kiln Fiend is at least a little similar to Burn)
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
2x Forest
3x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Marsh Flats
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
3x Razorverge Thicket
1x Swamp
1x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
3x Anafenza, the Foremost
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Kitchen Finks
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Siege Rhino
3x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
Sorceries
4x Lingering Souls
2x Thoughtseize
Instants
4x Path to Exile
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Creeping Corrosion
2x Distended Mindbender
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Shriekmaw
1x Stony Silence
2x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution
Principles
1. Certain common inclusions were established during a meta that doesn't exist anymore
My two big non-inclusions are Loxodon Smiter and Qasali Pridemage. Counter magic just isn't good right now, it was never as strong against creatures as it is against spells, and any Jund player worth there snot is going to ID your deck and not plus Liliana of the Veil. I realize that there are uses for Qasali Pridemage but frankly, it got into this deck because of Splinter Twin and those days are gone.
2. You need to maximize the number of sideboard cards that are also threats
We're an aggro deck and want to play that role in almost every match-up. This is the rationale behind the following sideboard choices I'll explain below: Shriekmaw, Distended Mindbender, and Scavenging Ooze
3. Jund is bad right now
The meta is pretty stacked with fast combo that Jund/Abzan/Grixis Midrange-Control decks are not favored against. This is why I'm leaving cards like Painful Truths and Sigarda, Host of Herons out of my sideboard. I get that they're good but we have to make sacrifices somewhere.
Select Card Choices
1.Thalia, Heretic Cathar
This card has been the stone cold nuts for me. Turn 2 Thalia, even on the draw, has won me every game I've played against Eldrazi, Tron, Scapeshift, and Ad Nas. I get that it's bad against Lightning Bolt but not every card can be perfect against everything and this goes a long way to shoring up some tough match-ups. This card performs best with 8 dorks.
2. Anafenza, the Foremost
Part of the reason I'm playing a fetchland manabase over fast lands is to up the black sources for Anafenza. Her abilities are more relevant right now than Loxodon Smiter, especially the +1/+1 counters. This plus Gavony Township makes running 8 dorks better.
3. Shriekmaw
I'm in love with this card. It's extra removal for when you need it, bonkers against Eldrazi, and makes up for not having cards to bring in against Jund. It also gets bonus points for not getting countered by Spell Snare or Spell Pierce
4. Distended Mindbender
I've just started testing this. I've cast it twice, once against Bant Eldrazi and once against Grixis Control. It was game over both times. One of the best ways to emerge it is off of 4 lands and 2 dorks, saccing one of them. I anticipate that this is good against a lot of combo and helps keep your clock going.
5. Scavenging Ooze
Honestly I haven't played Dredge yet. I don't know if Scooze plus Anafenza plus lots of good blockers is going to be enough. However, Scooze is good against any deck trying to use the graveyard and serviceable against Burn.
Comments are most welcome. Here is the deck link on tappedout as well: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/abzan-midrange-beatdown-2/
Nice list. I have changed the scooze on this deck for the anafenza too, it is 4/4, stops dredge just in time, can reset finks and get two +1+1 from Leaf. Do you think that the 3 gavony + 8 dorks worth? I think it is too much and situational. I was wondering about replacing my 2 elephants for the 2 new Thalia, the downside is that she has a weaker body and gets only one +1+1 from leaf, where the deck becomes less wilders, but slowing up the opponent is a plus. I think you have too few removal main deck, this deck struggle against some combo decks...
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
Distended Mindbender is expensive, but I see cards like it as payoff for running the full 8 dorks - which is the original reason I decided to run this deck. I just love how good it is at making dorks a less than terrible topdeck later in the game. Time will tell though, I don't have that much experience with Distended Mindbender yet.
Thalia has really helped with Tron, Ad Nas, and Eldrazi specifically. Frankly I'm kind of in love with the card, even though it gets boarded out in quite a few match-ups. It's just never completely useless and helps you get some badly needed game 1 wins against those decks.
I run 2 thoughtseize as a hedge against these type decks as sort of a replacement for more removal, but I've definitely considered trying to get 2 Abrupt decay in the main board. What would you take out if you did put in more removal?
Honestly I love having 8 dorks and 3 township. While I haven't measured, it seems like I win far more games with turn 1 dork and having Anafenza plus 3 township helps you keep them from being such bad draws in the late game.
Thalia has really helped with Tron, Ad Nas, and Eldrazi specifically. Frankly I'm kind of in love with the card, even though it gets boarded out in quite a few match-ups. It's just never completely useless and helps you get some badly needed game 1 wins against those decks.
I run 2 thoughtseize as a hedge against these type decks as sort of a replacement for more removal, but I've definitely considered trying to get 2 Abrupt decay in the main board. What would you take out if you did put in more removal?
I would remove 1 Anafenza and 1 Thalia, I think 3 of a legendary card is too much. You now have 2 more slots for 2 more finks or 2 more removal (I would let the TS SB btw).
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
I do when midrange is popular.
I've been on Gifts and Kiki Company for a while and I don't think Oath of Ajani is going to convince me to come back to Liege any time soon.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Also 8 manadorks is a hell of a lot, and not sure why you would run a whopping 2 Anafenza main.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
As for KOTR, it allows you to put a land onto the battlefield directly provided it survives until next turn. Pulse can be played at any moment.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Unfortunately, they're Tron's best matchups too.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Just about as crappy as every other GB/x deck ever.
Round 1 vs. Enchantress. I always lose to this guy. This time, he locks me out in the first game and starts getting momentum, drawing a buttload of cards. He has double Sphere of Safety by turn 4 on the play, so no attacking for me this game until I get a Qasali Pridemage. In the next game, I have a super quick clock after a mull to 6 and Abrupt Decay for Journey to Nowhere, letting my Rhino do lethal. In the last game, he stalled on 2 land with double Ghostly Prison, double Sphere of Safety, and Blood Moon in hand. By the time he drew a land, it was too late. 2-1.
Round 2 vs. Affinity. In the first game after losing another die roll, he gets me with Etched Champion and Cranial Plating on turn 5 for lethal (2 swings). In the next 2 games, I get some Engineered Explosives, Stony Silence, Lingering Souls, and then the Rhino/Liege draw to easily win. 2-1.
Round 3 vs. Budget UR Kiln Fiend. He gets me with double Mutagenic Growth after 2 Swiftspears on the play. No life gain for me. In the next 2 games, I get a quick clock with defense and go in with Souls and Gavony Township in the last game. 2-1.
Round 4 vs. Bant Eldrazi. We are the only two 3-0 players, so we split. 0-0-3.
I fiish 3-0-1, which wasn't bad for a deck that I brought to face 2 decks. (although UR Kiln Fiend is at least a little similar to Burn)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)