edit: I'm not trolling you. I simply want you to explain why FtC is garbage against Burn. Also, that video was evidence that Finks doesn't gain you enough % to take a game from Burn, even in multiples. That wasn't a troll either.
edit: I'm not trolling you. I simply want you to explain why FtC is garbage against Burn. Also, that video was evidence that Finks doesn't gain you enough % to take a game from Burn, even in multiples. That wasn't a troll either.
LOL. Wow. So in that video, what would Feed the Clan have done? You do understand that you don't always win a 50/50 matchup right? He also got to play more turns than he otherwise would have. In any case, when you answer the first question, you'll have my answer. And yes, you are trolling. Your only logic is that it might quasi-counter 3 spells. "Not losing" is not the same as "winning." Why don't you tell me how Feed the Clan reasonably wins the game, and I'll drop my argument.
I'll even copy/paste what I said earlier because nothing about this has changed:
Kitchen Finks is not a sacred cow. Damn, do you think for yourself at all? We're not Melira. It's good sometimes, and you can choose to play it if you want obviously. It isn't even the best way to beat burn, which is why most people played it originally. Seriously, I've lost plenty of games against burn with a resolved Finks. It isn't a trump in the match up, it's somewhere between fine and good. Feed the Clan is trump here. It counters 3 of their cards when it resolves. I'm not playing them right now, because I don't care about burn currently, but if I did, those would easily go in before Sorin or Finks. In fact, go watch this game one.
And now you're talking about Sorin in control matches? Okay, but why? He'd be sub par there too, and our deck does a great job against pure control. I'm not looking to have broad sideboard cards. This isn't standard. We have major holes in our gameplan that can be exploited by unfair or linear decks. We don't need more fair stuff in our sb - that's the entire composition of our mb.
Congrats. You found one deck out of how many (and he didn't even get to top 16)? Go ahead. Tell me how many green decks there were. Don't worry. I looked it up for you. Out of all the decks in the top 8 at GP Charlotte this year (where you pulled your one example from), NOT A SINGLE ONE HAD FEED THE CLAN IN THEIR 75. That number includes 2 Jund decks, 1 Domri Zoo deck, 1 Collected Bant deck and 1 Scapeshift deck all of which have been candidates in the past to run cards like Feed the Clan in the sideboard at least. Do I need to go any further? I will anyway.
No, Kitchen Finks is not a sacred cow, but it's pretty damn good. In fact, having persist on a solid body makes it pretty good against the field. I even love when it catches a Path to Exile because that's supposedly the "cleanest" way to answer it. The only times it doesn't get value is when your opponent has Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, Grafdigger's Cage or Leyline of the Void in play. Only one of those things isn't considered narrow. By the way, you can even find at least 2 decks playing Kitchen Finks in their sideboard at the top 8 of GP Charlotte!
Uh yea, I remember PT FTR. What about it? Kitchen Finks was the only thing that allowed Jacob to continue playing magic, or what? You're telling me Feed the Clans in place of one of those Kitchen Finks was going to win him that game? Is that seriously where your heading with this? I can tell you this: There aren't many 3-CMC drops that would even be playable in that position unless you can name one. A solid body, life gain and persist. That sure does seem so much better than 5 life... oops, I mean 3 life in Jacob's position.
I have serious doubts about how much you've played this deck. I've played both sides when it comes to this deck and control, and I know for a fact that Grixis and Jeskai control (especially Jeskai) run us down hard. They are playing all the removal in the world combined with permission and a lot of recursion in the case of Grixis control. THEN they truly beat us down with Snapcaster Mage and sweepers after sideboarding. Their game plan is literally to weather the storm, and then find any threat to finish us off. If you think this deck is going to blitz them into oblivion, you're just wrong. If you didn't get lucky with Lingering Souls and/or Voice of Resurgence, they would either have to be bad or really unlucky for you to blitz them into oblivion. I mean even versions of Jeskai control prior to Nahiri, the Harbinger owned us so, yea, you need something for control matchups. I don't care if it's man-lands, planewalkers, whatever, but you will need something. This deck is a midrange hunter. Period. It just happens to have decent game against aggro, but it does not do "a great job against control." At best, you can say that this deck has a plan to beat control. The ability to execute that plan isn't great.
You are, however, correct in that we need help with combo matchups the most, but what's your plan to deal with them? All we can do is turn creatures sideways or play the discard package that a traditional midrange Abzan would play. Either way, all combo decks are terrible matchups for us. We have to hope they stumble. They must stumble for us to even have a chance. If you know of a solid game plan to deal with them, by all means, please enlighten us.
Wtf is Feed the Clans doing for you? Seriously? You mention Burn, but then want to come back with "but I'm not worried about the Burn matchup." Oh really? Why mention it then? In any case, you do know Burn doesn't play a tap-out style any more? They actually hold up Skullcrack and Atarka's Command unless it's going to kill you immediately. You might catch Zoo trying to pull the trigger on an Atarka's Command too early, but that's it really. I know they can also use it against the Kitchen Finks trigger, but that's still a win, man! I still have something to show for it in that case. How will it feel when they blow out your Feed the Clans? No one wants to play Feed the Clans, man. Well, except you apparently. Other folks play it when they have to, but you apparently love it so much that you refuse to give it up in the face of raw facts. Do you think pros like not playing the best cards? I'm not personally saying you're wrong. You can do whatever you like, but don't spread misinformation like it's the gospel.
Now remember, Kitchen Finks actually interacts with their creatures favorably AND can win you the game (because we still have to turn something sideways to win). Feed the Clan literally just let's you limp along if they don't use Skullcrack or Atarka's Command because Burn players don't just randomly tap out on their turn any more. Let's say you get past that particular fear. All you're hoping for in this scenario is that you're going to out-"topdeck" your opponent who plays a lot less land than you. Your odds suck. All their non-land cards, except Goblin Guide, are all action. We actually have terrible topdecks still in after sideboard (Do you really need me to list them?) And this is all even after countering 3 spells IF you happen to have ferocious, which is not a guarantee and is actually unlikely without the game going long for an aggro v aggro matchup.
LOL. Wow. So in that video, what would Feed the Clan have done? You do understand that you don't always win a 50/50 matchup right? He also got to play more turns than he otherwise would have. In any case, when you answer the first question, you'll have my answer. And yes, you are trolling. Your only logic is that it might quasi-counter 3 spells. "Not losing" is not the same as "winning." Why don't you tell me how Feed the Clan reasonably wins the game, and I'll drop my argument.
I should have commented on this the first time around. It's a single game, in which you cannot draw a bunch of conclusions from. When I said Finks isn't a sacred-cow for us and isn't a stone-cold trump against Burn, that wasn't based solely on that video. I have experienced losing games with resolved Finks, and everyone else on this deck has too. That video was simply the only one available of our deck vs. Burn, so I presented it to you to support my side since my stories won't carry as much weight. Stop drawing conclusion after conclusion based on one game, that's not helpful.
My logic that it "quasi-counters" three spells isn't appealing to you? What hands are you keeping that having access to that effect is bad?!
Ugh, you did.
Look, if any arbitrary deck hasn't played a card in the past, that's not justification for excluding it now. That's particularly true for one as unpopoular as Abzan Liege. If precedent is your argument for not using Feed the Clans, then it is a pretty poor one. That's like saying laws shouldn't change because they've always existed a particular way.
Now remember, Kitchen Finks actually interacts with their creatures favorably AND can win you the game (because we still have to turn something sideways to win). Feed the Clan literally just let's you limp along if they don't use Skullcrack or Atarka's Command because Burn players don't just randomly tap out on their turn any more. Let's say you get past that particular fear. All you're hoping for in this scenario is that you're going to out-"topdeck" your opponent who plays a lot less land than you. Your odds suck. All their non-land cards, except Goblin Guide, are all action. We actually have terrible topdecks still in after sideboard (Do you really need me to list them?) And this is all even after countering 3 spells IF you happen to have ferocious, which is not a guarantee and is actually unlikely without the game going long for an aggro v aggro matchup.
Nobody is siding out Finks for FtC, so what's your point here? Of course we're trying to just buffer ourselves long enough to win. Why is that bad? Also, nobody is keeping a hand without pressure, but does include Feed the Clans. Come on, give the people some credit.
You say IF we have ferocious, and I get that we can't control what we draw, but with 7-8 copies of creatures that do so, you ARE likely to have one in your hand. You could've done the math before you spewed that nonsense. 8 copies on the play = 65.36%, 8 copies on the draw = 70.59%, 7 copies on the play = 60.1%, 7 copies the draw = 65.36%
Precedent isn't the reason I bring up other decks. The idea is this simple: If it's such a great answer or response to a deck that requires so little investment (1-color, 2-CMC, no double color requirement), why aren't more people playing it? You think pros like ignoring good cards? It's not as if it's some super secret tech no one has discovered. You seem to just gloss over this like it doesn't mean anything and you clearly know better than people who spend their professional life doing this. Surely, I just want to be the semi-pro who just loves losing. /sarcasm
You're not the only who has played the matchup. I generally play against Burn or Zoo weekly at my local Modern tournaments (generally 4 to 5 rounds) as well as at larger tournaments. I understand that there are just some Burn and Zoo hands that you just can't beat no matter how perfect your draw is, especially when this deck is on the draw. I also test against it regularly with 2 guys. One has been playing some version of Burn or Sligh since Onslaught. The other has been playing some version of it since Unlimited. They both have asked me the same thing: "Why would you ever board that piece of ~crap~ in?" We got into a long-running debate about it. At the end of the day, they're right. It doesn't help me win. In fact, unless I'm some sort of slow combo deck, the card is just outright bad as it's just a delay in the hopes that they just draw lands, which is more likely for you than them. If you're playing the numbers (statistics) game, Feed the Clan is just a bad choice. Cards, such as Lone Missionary and Courser of Kruphix, are flat out better.
I also didn't say anyone was siding out Kitchen Finks. You originally posted a list that didn't involve Kitchen Finks at all, which I think is ludicrous. I assume you think it's still an "ok" card.
I know the math on having a 4+ power creature, but if you're spending your turn 2 slamming out a Loxodon Smiter on the play, you're probably closer to dead than you realize. By their turn 2 if they're on the play (the turn after you decided to slam whatever 4+ power creature), you could easily be at 10 or less life depending on which draw they have. Then they untap. How does Feed the Clan help you here? Now they get to sit back casting 1 mana spells or wait for another land to drop & sit behind their Eidolon of the Great Revel and just let the pressure build. Do you really feel all that safe slamming Anafenza, Smiter or whatever in that situation?
Wait, you just said we can't play a 4/4 on turn two and expect to win against burn? Okay, enforcer of the Wilted Abzan Liege thread, I'm out. That's literally our nut start.
Wait, you just said we can't play a 4/4 on turn two and expect to win against burn? Okay, enforcer of the Wilted Abzan Liege thread, I'm out. That's literally our nut start.
I'm not enforcing anything, and I didn't say you couldn't. I asked if you felt safe doing so. Look man, I'm telling you my experience. I've even given you the alternatives I would rather play than Feed the Clan and why. All you've done is argue that "Feed the Clan is good against Burn." I'm asking how? Clearly, based on what I just explained, I have played it in the past. It's never been the clear out for me against Burn that it's clearly been for you. So why don't you actually step up and say something useful?
So, moving away from the Feed the Clan debate... How has Courser performed for people? I have been tempted to include it, but it seems like it might slow our aggro game down more than we can afford in most matches. If I had to choose between dropping courser or a smiter turn 2, it'd be smiter most of the time. I like that it helps us in top deck mode and gains us life though. Does it deserve a sideboard slot or a main board slot or 2? Or maybe not included at all?
Sweet jesus this thread has gotten pathetic - 'lol' and 'wow' aren't the best of ways to start a useful discussion.
Feed the Clan is amazing against Burn because it gives us the much-needed breathing room we need to stabilize and out-aggro them. No more, no less. Forcing them to deal an additional 10 damage before we scoop is huge.
Sweet jesus this thread has gotten pathetic - 'lol' and 'wow' aren't the best of ways to start a useful discussion.
Feed the Clan is amazing against Burn because it gives us the much-needed breathing room we need to stabilize and out-aggro them. No more, no less. Forcing them to deal an additional 10 damage before we scoop is huge.
Again, I understand the whole breathing room concept, but I still think it's not automatically 10 life for one. The other dude's statistics on how often you will have a 3-CMC creature with 4 power or more in your initial hand is just off, even if you have 12 of them in your deck. Secondly, that Feed the Clan ever gains you life in this match up is another issue to consider when dealing with Atarka's Command and Skullcrack. Finally, let's say everything works out fine for you as far as getting the 10 life, does that just end up being an auto-win for you more often than not? My experience and testing say generally yes but it depends on how much life you've already lost and what their board looks like. If you're at 11 and they have an Eidolon of the Great Revel, that gives them a chance to recover while you're still playing catch-up. This is why I have much preferred the alternatives that I listed (Lone Missionary and/or Courser of Kruphix). They do something towards winning the game while trying to get me out of the "danger zone," so to speak, whereas I'm just hoping my draws are better than the Burn/Zoo player's draws after gaining 10 life ideally.
The bottom line is trying to fire off a Feed the Clan at an appropriate time for maximum effect is awkward at best in (what I thought is supposed to be) an aggro deck. I mean we're trying to get a 4-power guy down AND hold up mana to fire it off at an appropriate time. The best you can hope for you is to cast it at the end of their turn if their tapped out or as bait to play another life-gainer (Ooze, Finks or Rhino) on your turn. Some times that means wasting a turn in hopes of gaining life. That seems not-so-good.
What I presented were the odds of having at least one creature w/4 power in your opening seven card hand, and those numbers are for both p=7 and p=8 on the play and draw. How are the numbers wrong?
Regarding the Burn match-up, which in my opinion is one of the hardest, I found that my only out is to play Kor Firewalker. I have never lost a game where this card was in play. Regardless of what they do they cannot generate enough burn before I stabilize with Rhinos and Finks. Their only removal is Path to Exile or a well timed Skullcrack after blocking with Kor Firewalker. In a diverse meta, the card can be useful against Burn, Zoo, Jeskai, UR Prowess, and Storm.
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Modern
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
What I presented were the odds of having at least one creature w/4 power in your opening seven card hand, and those numbers are for both p=7 and p=8 on the play and draw. How are the numbers wrong?
So you're including Siege Rhino and Wilt-Leaf Liege? Because trying to live long enough to drop those AND then fire off Feed the Clan is just ridiculous. The game is close to done one way or the other by then (on average). Not to mention you've eschewed Kitchen Finks for Anafenza, the Foremost in your last, partially posted list. Most Wilted Abzan players aren't going to do that.
Regarding the Burn match-up, which in my opinion is one of the hardest, I found that my only out is to play Kor Firewalker. I have never lost a game where this card was in play. Regardless of what they do they cannot generate enough burn before I stabilize with Rhinos and Finks. Their only removal is Path to Exile or a well timed Skullcrack after blocking with Kor Firewalker. In a diverse meta, the card can be useful against Burn, Zoo, Jeskai, UR Prowess, and Storm.
I've thought about using Kor Firewalker before, but it seems like I would be expecting a field chock full of Zoo and Burn (or just R/X decks in general). I guess it is similar enough to Lone Missionary though. It's just that Lone Missionary sort of "counters" a burn spell when it comes in if they don't have a Skullcrack effect so it seems to force action in my mind. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong. I might try this out to see if it's any different.
What I presented were the odds of having at least one creature w/4 power in your opening seven card hand, and those numbers are for both p=7 and p=8 on the play and draw. How are the numbers wrong?
So you're including Siege Rhino and Wilt-Leaf Liege? Because trying to live long enough to drop those AND then fire off Feed the Clan is just ridiculous. The game is close to done one way or the other by then (on average). Not to mention you've eschewed Kitchen Finks for Anafenza, the Foremost in your last, partially posted list. Most Wilted Abzan players aren't going to do that.
Turn 1 BOP / Hierarch, turn 2 Smiter, turn 3 Feed the Clan. If you can't survive until turn 3 then this discussion is even more pointless than I already assumed it would be when I initially bothered to reply.
Agreed on the pointless-ness of this. I've done enough play-testing and played actual matches to know this exact line isn't the auto-win you think it is. Have fun.
Ok I'll get the obvious out of the way, more Noble, rhino, liege, voice and finks.
More than likely I'll drop the walker package for thoes cards.
I'm wanting to stay more controlling with the efficient beaters that we use.
Chord had been ok at best
Not sure what to do because I love witness but finks is really the card to have.
I looked for other options but I feel it's the best 3drop in the deck.
I don't have control decks in my meta so I'm moving smiter to the board.
Thrun and angel are because I lack in rhino and liege which I will get at some point. Mostly the reason I have chord and witness,
I do end up top decking a bunch even with only 5 dorks I can dump easy, Elspeth is fun for any creature and sort of a 3rd liege.
Sorin is the biggest under performer MB, and lotv I have a love hate relationship with. Sometimes it's good others I wish it was something else.
I think that about covers it and my thoughts about where I want to go, I'd love some feedback and please don't tell me to buy goyf and/or play a different deck.
I actually wanted to build pod but once it got the axe I moved to a different direction and that's why I have some cards here as I was going to do a mash of the 2 decks.
Saw podless pod and I was not impressed.
I realize this is a mostly aggro meta deck but I feel some midrange aspects can be implemented to improve certain matchups.
What can I say, it looks like a bit of a pile honestly. Not wide enough to abuse Chord, not enough Lieges or Smiters to provide serious pressure, not enough Voices to force the opponent to play on his own turn, a whopping ten four-drops, no real use for Witness, not enough lifegain to offset the damage from fetches + shocks + three Thoughtseizes (why?).
Siege Liege is an aggro deck first and foremost, if you start diluting that you just end up with a much weaker version of Junk.
It's sort of a split between a liege rhino list and traditional abzan midrange. Full playsets of thoughtseize and Goyf maindeck, but no liliana and a generous helping of beaters. Any thoughts on Grim Flayer in the two-drop slot? I'm guessing that the two main deck Zealous Persecution are there to help flayer get through early.
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edit: I'm not trolling you. I simply want you to explain why FtC is garbage against Burn. Also, that video was evidence that Finks doesn't gain you enough % to take a game from Burn, even in multiples. That wasn't a troll either.
LOL. Wow. So in that video, what would Feed the Clan have done? You do understand that you don't always win a 50/50 matchup right? He also got to play more turns than he otherwise would have. In any case, when you answer the first question, you'll have my answer. And yes, you are trolling. Your only logic is that it might quasi-counter 3 spells. "Not losing" is not the same as "winning." Why don't you tell me how Feed the Clan reasonably wins the game, and I'll drop my argument.
I'll even copy/paste what I said earlier because nothing about this has changed:
Now remember, Kitchen Finks actually interacts with their creatures favorably AND can win you the game (because we still have to turn something sideways to win). Feed the Clan literally just let's you limp along if they don't use Skullcrack or Atarka's Command because Burn players don't just randomly tap out on their turn any more. Let's say you get past that particular fear. All you're hoping for in this scenario is that you're going to out-"topdeck" your opponent who plays a lot less land than you. Your odds suck. All their non-land cards, except Goblin Guide, are all action. We actually have terrible topdecks still in after sideboard (Do you really need me to list them?) And this is all even after countering 3 spells IF you happen to have ferocious, which is not a guarantee and is actually unlikely without the game going long for an aggro v aggro matchup.
I should have commented on this the first time around. It's a single game, in which you cannot draw a bunch of conclusions from. When I said Finks isn't a sacred-cow for us and isn't a stone-cold trump against Burn, that wasn't based solely on that video. I have experienced losing games with resolved Finks, and everyone else on this deck has too. That video was simply the only one available of our deck vs. Burn, so I presented it to you to support my side since my stories won't carry as much weight. Stop drawing conclusion after conclusion based on one game, that's not helpful.
My logic that it "quasi-counters" three spells isn't appealing to you? What hands are you keeping that having access to that effect is bad?!
Please don't.
Ugh, you did.
Look, if any arbitrary deck hasn't played a card in the past, that's not justification for excluding it now. That's particularly true for one as unpopoular as Abzan Liege. If precedent is your argument for not using Feed the Clans, then it is a pretty poor one. That's like saying laws shouldn't change because they've always existed a particular way.
Nobody is siding out Finks for FtC, so what's your point here? Of course we're trying to just buffer ourselves long enough to win. Why is that bad? Also, nobody is keeping a hand without pressure, but does include Feed the Clans. Come on, give the people some credit.
You say IF we have ferocious, and I get that we can't control what we draw, but with 7-8 copies of creatures that do so, you ARE likely to have one in your hand. You could've done the math before you spewed that nonsense. 8 copies on the play = 65.36%, 8 copies on the draw = 70.59%, 7 copies on the play = 60.1%, 7 copies the draw = 65.36%
Precedent isn't the reason I bring up other decks. The idea is this simple: If it's such a great answer or response to a deck that requires so little investment (1-color, 2-CMC, no double color requirement), why aren't more people playing it? You think pros like ignoring good cards? It's not as if it's some super secret tech no one has discovered. You seem to just gloss over this like it doesn't mean anything and you clearly know better than people who spend their professional life doing this. Surely, I just want to be the semi-pro who just loves losing. /sarcasm
You're not the only who has played the matchup. I generally play against Burn or Zoo weekly at my local Modern tournaments (generally 4 to 5 rounds) as well as at larger tournaments. I understand that there are just some Burn and Zoo hands that you just can't beat no matter how perfect your draw is, especially when this deck is on the draw. I also test against it regularly with 2 guys. One has been playing some version of Burn or Sligh since Onslaught. The other has been playing some version of it since Unlimited. They both have asked me the same thing: "Why would you ever board that piece of ~crap~ in?" We got into a long-running debate about it. At the end of the day, they're right. It doesn't help me win. In fact, unless I'm some sort of slow combo deck, the card is just outright bad as it's just a delay in the hopes that they just draw lands, which is more likely for you than them. If you're playing the numbers (statistics) game, Feed the Clan is just a bad choice. Cards, such as Lone Missionary and Courser of Kruphix, are flat out better.
I also didn't say anyone was siding out Kitchen Finks. You originally posted a list that didn't involve Kitchen Finks at all, which I think is ludicrous. I assume you think it's still an "ok" card.
I know the math on having a 4+ power creature, but if you're spending your turn 2 slamming out a Loxodon Smiter on the play, you're probably closer to dead than you realize. By their turn 2 if they're on the play (the turn after you decided to slam whatever 4+ power creature), you could easily be at 10 or less life depending on which draw they have. Then they untap. How does Feed the Clan help you here? Now they get to sit back casting 1 mana spells or wait for another land to drop & sit behind their Eidolon of the Great Revel and just let the pressure build. Do you really feel all that safe slamming Anafenza, Smiter or whatever in that situation?
I'm not enforcing anything, and I didn't say you couldn't. I asked if you felt safe doing so. Look man, I'm telling you my experience. I've even given you the alternatives I would rather play than Feed the Clan and why. All you've done is argue that "Feed the Clan is good against Burn." I'm asking how? Clearly, based on what I just explained, I have played it in the past. It's never been the clear out for me against Burn that it's clearly been for you. So why don't you actually step up and say something useful?
Feed the Clan is amazing against Burn because it gives us the much-needed breathing room we need to stabilize and out-aggro them. No more, no less. Forcing them to deal an additional 10 damage before we scoop is huge.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Again, I understand the whole breathing room concept, but I still think it's not automatically 10 life for one. The other dude's statistics on how often you will have a 3-CMC creature with 4 power or more in your initial hand is just off, even if you have 12 of them in your deck. Secondly, that Feed the Clan ever gains you life in this match up is another issue to consider when dealing with Atarka's Command and Skullcrack. Finally, let's say everything works out fine for you as far as getting the 10 life, does that just end up being an auto-win for you more often than not? My experience and testing say generally yes but it depends on how much life you've already lost and what their board looks like. If you're at 11 and they have an Eidolon of the Great Revel, that gives them a chance to recover while you're still playing catch-up. This is why I have much preferred the alternatives that I listed (Lone Missionary and/or Courser of Kruphix). They do something towards winning the game while trying to get me out of the "danger zone," so to speak, whereas I'm just hoping my draws are better than the Burn/Zoo player's draws after gaining 10 life ideally.
The bottom line is trying to fire off a Feed the Clan at an appropriate time for maximum effect is awkward at best in (what I thought is supposed to be) an aggro deck. I mean we're trying to get a 4-power guy down AND hold up mana to fire it off at an appropriate time. The best you can hope for you is to cast it at the end of their turn if their tapped out or as bait to play another life-gainer (Ooze, Finks or Rhino) on your turn. Some times that means wasting a turn in hopes of gaining life. That seems not-so-good.
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
So you're including Siege Rhino and Wilt-Leaf Liege? Because trying to live long enough to drop those AND then fire off Feed the Clan is just ridiculous. The game is close to done one way or the other by then (on average). Not to mention you've eschewed Kitchen Finks for Anafenza, the Foremost in your last, partially posted list. Most Wilted Abzan players aren't going to do that.
I've thought about using Kor Firewalker before, but it seems like I would be expecting a field chock full of Zoo and Burn (or just R/X decks in general). I guess it is similar enough to Lone Missionary though. It's just that Lone Missionary sort of "counters" a burn spell when it comes in if they don't have a Skullcrack effect so it seems to force action in my mind. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong. I might try this out to see if it's any different.
Turn 1 BOP / Hierarch, turn 2 Smiter, turn 3 Feed the Clan. If you can't survive until turn 3 then this discussion is even more pointless than I already assumed it would be when I initially bothered to reply.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Preaching to the choir.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
4 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Painful Truths
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Siege Rhino
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Anafenza the Foremost
3 Forest
4 Marsh Flats
4 Windswept Heath
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Swamp
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
3 Gavony Township
1 Creeping Corrosion
3 Thoughtseize
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Choke
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Dismember
2 Feed the Clan
I might want to try Anguished Unmaking and the 4 mana Gideon
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
1x Forest
3x Gavony Township
2x Godless Shrine
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Plains
1x Razorverge Thicket
2x Sunpetal Grove
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Woodland Cemetery
2x Eternal Witness
2x Loxodon Smiter
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Restoration Angel
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Siege Rhino
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Voice of Resurgence
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
2x Chord of Calling
4x Path to Exile
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
Ok I'll get the obvious out of the way, more Noble, rhino, liege, voice and finks.
More than likely I'll drop the walker package for thoes cards.
I'm wanting to stay more controlling with the efficient beaters that we use.
Chord had been ok at best
Not sure what to do because I love witness but finks is really the card to have.
I looked for other options but I feel it's the best 3drop in the deck.
I don't have control decks in my meta so I'm moving smiter to the board.
Thrun and angel are because I lack in rhino and liege which I will get at some point. Mostly the reason I have chord and witness,
I do end up top decking a bunch even with only 5 dorks I can dump easy, Elspeth is fun for any creature and sort of a 3rd liege.
Sorin is the biggest under performer MB, and lotv I have a love hate relationship with. Sometimes it's good others I wish it was something else.
I think that about covers it and my thoughts about where I want to go, I'd love some feedback and please don't tell me to buy goyf and/or play a different deck.
I actually wanted to build pod but once it got the axe I moved to a different direction and that's why I have some cards here as I was going to do a mash of the 2 decks.
Saw podless pod and I was not impressed.
I realize this is a mostly aggro meta deck but I feel some midrange aspects can be implemented to improve certain matchups.
Siege Liege is an aggro deck first and foremost, if you start diluting that you just end up with a much weaker version of Junk.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/my-modern-life/
It's sort of a split between a liege rhino list and traditional abzan midrange. Full playsets of thoughtseize and Goyf maindeck, but no liliana and a generous helping of beaters. Any thoughts on Grim Flayer in the two-drop slot? I'm guessing that the two main deck Zealous Persecution are there to help flayer get through early.