Check page 64, I made a very detailed SB guide. Obviously after Twin banning some of that info is no longer accurate, but there's still some valuable information to be had from the post.
Why isn't that on the primer ? Needs an update for new Eldrazi decks but still very useful
We would have to get the Author of this primer to edit and include it on the OP. I could send him a PM and see if he's willing to add it
I run a single KOTR and am liking her so far. She gets very big very fast and can help us dig for the right land for the situation, be it Ghost Quarter, Vault of the Archangel, Gavony Township or simple mana fixing / topdeck cycling.
Smiter is amazing but I like having some sort of toolbox-based backup plan for our tougher matchups.
Liliana is not an issue for us regardless, I'd say. We'd be running Sigarda on the side if that were the case and I haven't seen that card anywhere in ages.
I'm not looking at Liliana as a problem. I'm looking at it and Loxodon Smiter as a way to gain value. That's why I asked. If you don't see much in the way of 8-Rack or GBx decks, then he's not worth much. I do in my area, so I see no reason to drop Smiter.
He's also very good against control. KotR is just another big beater when it really comes down to it. Sure he has nice utility with the land fetching, but it's just "win-more" and isn't nearly as diverse Smiter.
Also KotR can take longer to "get going" if you don't have at least 2 lands in the GY. This makes it bad against hyper aggro (burn, infect, affinity) from my testing.
Yeah, KOTR is slower. I think people are getting too hung up on the anti-discard / uncounterable clauses on Smiter and forgetting that he's primarily a solid 4/4 beater that you can drop turn 2 and buff to 6/6 turn 3. Saying that's not worth much simply because the opponent doesn't happen to be playing any discard spells when we're the aggro deck in most matchups seems like a pretty big misperception to me.
First off my sideboard is just a mess because I haven't had the time or money to purcahse it, so it's just cards I had laying around.
I've taken this list to my lgs's modern tournament and usually go 3-1. I feel as if I have pretty favorable matches against most matchups, and with the predicted rise of big mana decks like tron and eldrazi this version might be more favorably positioned. Thoughts?
If anything I'd say it's less favorably positioned against big mana decks as you don't have the turn 1 acceleration in mana dorks that's needed to close games out fast. Discard is not good against them either.
So you're suggesting taking out the 2 duress, 2 thoughtsieze and one finks for for 5 mana dorks? What's the plan to beat combo?
Also I don't see how discard spells are bad against big mana decks, I personally would rather take a Karn from trons hand turn 1 than power out a smiter turn two just to have it exiled by Karn the next turn.
My meta is a lot of affinity/aggro/infect/elves hyper aggro type decks, a few grizis control decks (Which this deck beats easily), and some combo (Storm/Scapeshift/living End/Gifts Combo) I play the discard because I feel like this deck auto looses to combo decks without it, and while it's not quite as good against the aggro matchups it's always been at least decent at taking their turn 1 infect creature, or a Goblin Guide, or a cranial plating and it's a good catch all against rouge decks that run around.
Also I don't see how discard spells are bad against big mana decks, I personally would rather take a Karn from trons hand turn 1 than power out a smiter turn two just to have it exiled by Karn the next turn.
There's a very lengthy discussion covering this exact topic a few pages back. As for the combo, I'd run a hefty discard package in the sideboard.
I've been seeing a lot of this new Boom/Bust deck lately online as well and tons of other land destruction (anti Tron and Eldrazi tech I guess). Because of this I am convinced 7 dorks is the right way to go for now.
I love the look of your main deck spell package, I think I am going to try moving all Thoughtseizes to the board (I currently still have two main deck)
Is the consensus that Zealous Persecution is better than Golgari Charm in the sideboard? Golgari Charm kills you own 1/1 tokens, which is a huge downside but it also gives you the utility to kill enchantments (not that big of a deal without twin) and regenerate after a wrath or O-Stone. Thoughts?
We have Stony Silence post-board to combat Oblivion Stone (and every other Tron artifact), and I definitely wouldn't maindeck Golgari Charm. Pridemage, Pulse, Decay and DCommand take care of pesky enchantments just fine.
- 3 Sorin is way too much, most lists don't even run 1. Cut them for utility such as Dromoka's Command / Abzan Charm, and catch-all removal like Maelstrom Pulse.
- Urborg isn't necessary. 3 Temple Garden is a bit much as well, I'd cut that down to 1 and replace the other 2 + the Urborg with 3 Verdant Catacombs or 2 Verdant Catacombs + 1 Marsh Flats (if within budget).
- 7 manadorks is one too many, cut a Bird.
- I'd cut 1 Liege for 1 Rhino, 1 Finks for 1 Smiter, and 1 Abrupt Decay for another Path.
- Manlands are underwhelming, run 2x Gavony Township or a Gavony / Vault split instead.
Eldrazi Displacer seems like an awful substitute for Smiter. What does he do for this deck? He's not bigger than Smiter, can be countered/discarded and doesn't get pumped by Wilt-Leaf. Seems pretty *****ty if you ask me.
We would have to get the Author of this primer to edit and include it on the OP. I could send him a PM and see if he's willing to add it
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
That depends. Have people stopped playing Liliana of the Veil?
Smiter is amazing but I like having some sort of toolbox-based backup plan for our tougher matchups.
Liliana is not an issue for us regardless, I'd say. We'd be running Sigarda on the side if that were the case and I haven't seen that card anywhere in ages.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Also KotR can take longer to "get going" if you don't have at least 2 lands in the GY. This makes it bad against hyper aggro (burn, infect, affinity) from my testing.
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
3 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Vault of the Archangel
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Siege Rhino
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Abzan Charm
1 Dromoka's Command
4 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Path to Exile
2 Celestial Purge
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Restoration Angel
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stony Silence
4 Thoughtseize
1 Thragtusk
2 Zealous Persecution
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
3x Forest
1x Godless Shrine
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
2x Stirring Wildwood
3x Sunpetal Grove
3x Swamp
4x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
1x Woodland Cemetery
Creature (19)
4x Kitchen Finks
3x Loxodon Smiter
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
4x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
2x Duress
4x Lingering Souls
4x Thoughtseize
2x Maelstrom Pulse
Instant (6)
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Path to Exile
2x Duress
1x Loxodon Smiter
2x Golgari Charm
2x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Dismember
1x Thragtusk
1x Restoration Angel
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Phyrexian Unlife
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Bile Blight
First off my sideboard is just a mess because I haven't had the time or money to purcahse it, so it's just cards I had laying around.
I've taken this list to my lgs's modern tournament and usually go 3-1. I feel as if I have pretty favorable matches against most matchups, and with the predicted rise of big mana decks like tron and eldrazi this version might be more favorably positioned. Thoughts?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Also I don't see how discard spells are bad against big mana decks, I personally would rather take a Karn from trons hand turn 1 than power out a smiter turn two just to have it exiled by Karn the next turn.
My meta is a lot of affinity/aggro/infect/elves hyper aggro type decks, a few grizis control decks (Which this deck beats easily), and some combo (Storm/Scapeshift/living End/Gifts Combo) I play the discard because I feel like this deck auto looses to combo decks without it, and while it's not quite as good against the aggro matchups it's always been at least decent at taking their turn 1 infect creature, or a Goblin Guide, or a cranial plating and it's a good catch all against rouge decks that run around.
There's a very lengthy discussion covering this exact topic a few pages back. As for the combo, I'd run a hefty discard package in the sideboard.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I love the look of your main deck spell package, I think I am going to try moving all Thoughtseizes to the board (I currently still have two main deck)
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
It depends on your meta, however it still hits many relevant cards that hurt us quite badly, or have the potential to put us in a bad spot.
Cards such as: Blood Moon, Supreme verdict, Damnation, Cryptic Command, Scapeshift, Collected company, Cranial plating, goryo's vengeance, Retreat to coralhelm, Ensnaring bridge, Ghostly prison, Any planeswalker, Storm spells, Cascade spells, as well as any Burn(Aggro)/Counter(control)/Destroy(BGx)/Pump(Infect/Zoo) spell.
I personally run 2, down from 3 after the Twin ban.
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Siege Rhino
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Lands
3 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
3 Razorverge Thicket
1 Shambling Vent
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Swamp
3 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath
4 Lingering Souls
Planeswalkers
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
2 Golgari Charm
2 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Loxodon Smiter
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stony Silence
3 Thoughtseize
3 Timely Reinforcements
My two cents:
- 3 Sorin is way too much, most lists don't even run 1. Cut them for utility such as Dromoka's Command / Abzan Charm, and catch-all removal like Maelstrom Pulse.
- Urborg isn't necessary. 3 Temple Garden is a bit much as well, I'd cut that down to 1 and replace the other 2 + the Urborg with 3 Verdant Catacombs or 2 Verdant Catacombs + 1 Marsh Flats (if within budget).
- 7 manadorks is one too many, cut a Bird.
- I'd cut 1 Liege for 1 Rhino, 1 Finks for 1 Smiter, and 1 Abrupt Decay for another Path.
- Manlands are underwhelming, run 2x Gavony Township or a Gavony / Vault split instead.
Good luck getting that colorless mana! Seriously, even if you could, just run Resto instead.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company