Gaddock Teeg - Much more of a meta call. Does nothing against burn, infect, affinity and the mirror. Does help a bit against Twin, as they can't combo off, but dies to all sorts of cheap removal. Does make control much more sad as typically their finishers such as Cruel Ultimatum and White Sun's Zenith can't be played and it shuts down Cryptic command. Incidentally, it is pretty strong against Tron (GR and mono U) as it stops Ugin, Karn, Mindslaver, Condescend, Spell burst and Platinum angel. Not an auto-include by any means. Stony Silence - Hate artifacts and makes Tron and Affinity very sad. Engineered explosives - we play 3 colors so we need to consider this card. Can just beat boggles and affinity (definitely played this on 0 and removed all 90% of their board before). On 2 can hit a lot of junk threats as well. Again, a meta call.
Teeg all so does ok against decks that run wrath of god/supreme verdict or Sphinx's Revelation. He is also pretty good in making collected company sad.
Yes siding in fulminators is fine vs tron as it slows them down from assembling the tron lands.
SSJRanulf has experience running thragtusk and restoration angel, you should ask him
So, after months reading this topic I'm finally able to assemble the deck (well, kind of, I'll still need to borrow Hierarchs and Verdants from my friends).
Gaddock Teeg - Much more of a meta call. Does nothing against burn, infect, affinity and the mirror. Does help a bit against Twin, as they can't combo off, but dies to all sorts of cheap removal. Does make control much more sad as typically their finishers such as Cruel Ultimatum and White Sun's Zenith can't be played and it shuts down Cryptic command. Incidentally, it is pretty strong against Tron (GR and mono U) as it stops Ugin, Karn, Mindslaver, Condescend, Spell burst and Platinum angel. Not an auto-include by any means. Stony Silence - Hate artifacts and makes Tron and Affinity very sad. Engineered explosives - we play 3 colors so we need to consider this card. Can just beat boggles and affinity (definitely played this on 0 and removed all 90% of their board before). On 2 can hit a lot of junk threats as well. Again, a meta call.
Teeg all so does ok against decks that run wrath of god/supreme verdict or Sphinx's Revelation. He is also pretty good in making collected company sad.
Yes siding in fulminators is fine vs tron as it slows them down from assembling the tron lands.
SSJRanulf has experience running thragtusk and restoration angel, you should ask him
I do agree he's a meta call.
Teeg shines most against decks that don't have much spot removal. Coco decks are a great example because it shuts down collected company AND chord of calling, and those decks generally don't run tons of removal. The big one is TRON, though. Vs. green tron, he stops turn 3 karn, which is by far their best bet against us. Vs. Blue tron he shuts down repeal, condescend, spell burst, mindslaver, and maybe batterskull... that's a lot of cards! Vs. blue/white tron he's ridiculous. No wrath, no gifts ungiven, no reanimating. Their only real way to win is to get lucky and hardcast iona or something.
He also randomly hoses some combo and fringe decks. Scapeshift (and their cryptic commands), genesis wave, empty the warrens... a lot of random stuff that is otherwise hard to interact with if you're not playing blue.
I don't bring him in against twin. He really only stops twin itself, and I'd rather just run removal. I've also found twin players often side the combo out against me anyway.
I wouldn't necessarily bring him in vs. control to deal with wrath/revelation. Those decks run so much removal he'll just eat a bolt... I'd rather have voice, finks, lingering souls, scooze (for snappy) and man-lands. If I'm already maxed out on those and am trying to get rid of dead cards (abrupt decay is probably terrible, for example), then I'd bring him in mostly because he's a body that's slightly annoying.
I think my meta does call for MB teeg. I have sided out my only scavenging ooze and sorin for 2 qasali pridemages. Seriously contemplating putting in 2 ee in place of disenchants. I did not have room for fulminator mages and will just rely on teeg against the matchup vs tron.
Im running the setup with just 4 dorks as the 2 drop choices for this deck is just so much. So far its been working fine and ive only split a game against grixis ctrl(sided out abrupts and couldnt draw removal for stratcaster.) All the others ice managed to win or grind out.
Do you guys find a use for dismember? I have one in my side and im contemplating on replacing i with thrag.
In all honesty, you list is pretty standard, so I guess it'll work fine. I think 1 issue would be the lack of Aven Mindcensor in your side deck, personally, I would take out an Ajani for it.
I am curious, is it your local meta which requires you to have 2 Scavenging Ooze or?
In all honesty, you list is pretty standard, so I guess it'll work fine. I think 1 issue would be the lack of Aven Mindcensor in your side deck, personally, I would take out an Ajani for it.
I am curious, is it your local meta which requires you to have 2 Scavenging Ooze or?
Well, not really, I just thought it would be a nice card to have. I mean, I do face decks where some graveyard hate could be used (Goyfs, Finks, Snapcasters and Goryo's Vengeance), but it's not heavy on those decks. Would it be better to just drop them and add the 4th copy of Voice and Smiter? (or maybe MD Teeg, as I've seen some playing here).
I do have some Mindcensors. Do you think one is enough or should I cut another card for more copies of it?
Currently playtesting if Sorin (or elspeth? or mentor ajani?) would be better MB since im running 4 LSouls. (pridemages/teeg candidates to be taken out)
Thinking about replacing disenchants all together. maybe to add a scooze... and maybe 1 thrag? or 2 in place of skite? I feel skite helps me with the burn matchup, but im not sure running just 1 would make a difference.
I'm fairly new to this deck, only been playing it for a couple weeks... tips would be much appreciated
edit: foothills should really be catacombs but ehh. $$$$
Haven't touched my deck since GP Charlotte, but I'm going to make it out to a tournament this week (RL has just been ultra busy). Didn't manage to snag Marsh Flats before they spiked, so I'm cutting 2 Forest and a Gavony (in the super old build) for 3 Bloodstained Mire (which I already own). Sucks not to have those extra sources of mana but maybe I can trade my way into some Marsh Flats at the LGS.
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Current Decks: GWB Angel Pod WBR Mardu Midrange GWB Wilted Abzan
So I played a version of this deck last night and had a lot of fun with it. I won all of my rounds but I got absolutely wrecked by the RG Tron player at my LGS. What are the best cards for this matchup? I felt very inferior the whole time, like I never had a chance to win.
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Modern: WUBRGHumansWUBRG
EDH: WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
Your deck seems much slower than common versions of the deck and feels like it's trying to go over the top. I think that if you're going to be slower, you have to cut some cards for some number of Thoughtseize in the main deck. I also think Courser of Kruphix just feels bad. Courser is trying to gain card advantage over a longer game, but I don't see where the payoff is. Your top end is Primeval Titan and Batterskull. Primeval Titan can get your Gavony Township and Vault of the Archangels, but that's still a "down-the-road" proposition. Batterskull is solid, but if you don't slam that turn 3 against a lot of decks, you're probably already winning or dead. Basically, you might surprise/confuse someone in game 1 of a match, but I don't see how this beats the proven or established decks beyond R/X aggro, and I still think R/X aggro has a chance to slide under your ability to go over-the-top in games 2 and 3. There are other issues I see, but until you figure out whether you want tempo, control or disruption, the other problems don't matter.
So I played a version of this deck last night and had a lot of fun with it. I won all of my rounds but I got absolutely wrecked by the RG Tron player at my LGS. What are the best cards for this matchup? I felt very inferior the whole time, like I never had a chance to win.
If I understand correctly the RG Tron Matchup is nearly unwinnable.
Cards like Stony Silence, Aven Mindcensor and Fulminator Mage can help to prevent them from assembling the Urzatron. Gaddock Teeg stops All Is Dust, Karn and Ugin, but it dies to Piroclasm if we don't have Liege.
Thanks for the response. I have consistently had fulminators in my board as well as stony silence. RG tron is the only match-up that is really giving me fits so it might need to add the aven and the teeg to try and win. Normally I wouldn't go so hard against one deck in my sideboard but this player at my store is very good, he wins almost every week.
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Modern: WUBRGHumansWUBRG
EDH: WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
I've found that going heavy on discard out of the sideboard, cutting all some number of Lingering Souls (Usually 2. Sometimes 3), and combining that with Gaddock Teeg is pretty good against U/X Tron, but I haven't been able to test much against RG Tron. If it's anything like my U Tron match-up, then my problem is going to be finding sideboard slots for all of the discard I need to run. Basically, my plan is to get them close to top-deck mode with spells in their hand that don't matter. It's been alright, but I really need to test the RG Tron match up.
Just be careful not to weaken too much your sideboard against other matchups while trying to improve the Tron one. Sometimes the best thing we can do against a certain deck is just hope to not play against it.
Of course, if you want to optmize for your local meta I guess it is ok to cut some tools against some less frequent decks to increase your chances against a deck you know you'll probably face.
Hey, i dont really have an answer to your question as rg tron is giving me as much trouble as you. My sides differ from you however (i run fulminators instead of quarters) but for the most part our list looks pretty similar.
My question, how do you deal with twin with only 2 mb abrupt decays? Im running 3 and i still get hosed. My meta is.filled with twin.
I also saw that you only have 1 scooze in sb. Hows your burn matchup?
I have 2 pridemages in mainboard, do you not find a need for them?
Its my 2nd week running wilted abzan and ive had a 50-50 result so far.
hey there! since most of your meta is tron, i would add in a ghost quarter or 3-4 fulminators in your sb. teeg is good for the matchup as well as he stops karn and ugin from being casted, however he does die to pyroclasm which RG tron runs on the regular. stony silence slows down the tron machine quite handily as well.
i would look to get rid of the smiter in your sb, i find 3 is enough most times.
the grixis matchup generally favors liege abzan, even without choke. i would look to shave one of them as well.
Hey everyone! I've been working on my own little version of this list every since it dropped out of Tier 2. I think the deck has potential but in it's current form against the meta, it's just not going to get there without some changes. Here's my list, let me know what you think and if/how it should be improved!
I've essentially cut the Noble's in favor of Thoughtseize, and took out Lingering souls for Qasali and scooze which i feel are better. Overall thoughts on my deck? Should i just cut the birds for Inquision at this point or does a hybrid between dork/dork-less make sense?
Is it possible wilted abzan has fallen out of tier because it's a pure meta call? In other words, the deck is very strong in a GBx meta, but otherwise is too narrow a choice to be truly tier 1 or 2 competitive . Thoughts?
Teeg all so does ok against decks that run wrath of god/supreme verdict or Sphinx's Revelation. He is also pretty good in making collected company sad.
Yes siding in fulminators is fine vs tron as it slows them down from assembling the tron lands.
SSJRanulf has experience running thragtusk and restoration angel, you should ask him
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Temple Garden
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Stirring Wildwood
(27) Creatures
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Siege Rhino
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dromoka's Command
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
3 Thoughtseize
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Fracturing Gust
Any thoughts on the list or a bit of wisdom to share with a first-time Liege player?
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
I do agree he's a meta call.
Teeg shines most against decks that don't have much spot removal. Coco decks are a great example because it shuts down collected company AND chord of calling, and those decks generally don't run tons of removal. The big one is TRON, though. Vs. green tron, he stops turn 3 karn, which is by far their best bet against us. Vs. Blue tron he shuts down repeal, condescend, spell burst, mindslaver, and maybe batterskull... that's a lot of cards! Vs. blue/white tron he's ridiculous. No wrath, no gifts ungiven, no reanimating. Their only real way to win is to get lucky and hardcast iona or something.
He also randomly hoses some combo and fringe decks. Scapeshift (and their cryptic commands), genesis wave, empty the warrens... a lot of random stuff that is otherwise hard to interact with if you're not playing blue.
I don't bring him in against twin. He really only stops twin itself, and I'd rather just run removal. I've also found twin players often side the combo out against me anyway.
I wouldn't necessarily bring him in vs. control to deal with wrath/revelation. Those decks run so much removal he'll just eat a bolt... I'd rather have voice, finks, lingering souls, scooze (for snappy) and man-lands. If I'm already maxed out on those and am trying to get rid of dead cards (abrupt decay is probably terrible, for example), then I'd bring him in mostly because he's a body that's slightly annoying.
Im running the setup with just 4 dorks as the 2 drop choices for this deck is just so much. So far its been working fine and ive only split a game against grixis ctrl(sided out abrupts and couldnt draw removal for stratcaster.) All the others ice managed to win or grind out.
Do you guys find a use for dismember? I have one in my side and im contemplating on replacing i with thrag.
Will.post.my list as soon as i get off mobile.
I am curious, is it your local meta which requires you to have 2 Scavenging Ooze or?
However, I was wondering if you should build a few SB cards like Fulminator, Aven Mindcensor, or Gaddock Teeg, and CHoke too.
Well, not really, I just thought it would be a nice card to have. I mean, I do face decks where some graveyard hate could be used (Goyfs, Finks, Snapcasters and Goryo's Vengeance), but it's not heavy on those decks. Would it be better to just drop them and add the 4th copy of Voice and Smiter? (or maybe MD Teeg, as I've seen some playing here).
I do have some Mindcensors. Do you think one is enough or should I cut another card for more copies of it?
Thanks for the suggestions!
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Gavony Township
Spells
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Wilt-leaf Liege
4 Siege Rhino
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Restoration Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
1 Celestial Purge
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Dismember
1 Spellskite
1 Scavenging Ooze
Thoughts?
Currently playtesting if Sorin (or elspeth? or mentor ajani?) would be better MB since im running 4 LSouls. (pridemages/teeg candidates to be taken out)
Thinking about replacing disenchants all together. maybe to add a scooze... and maybe 1 thrag? or 2 in place of skite? I feel skite helps me with the burn matchup, but im not sure running just 1 would make a difference.
I'm fairly new to this deck, only been playing it for a couple weeks... tips would be much appreciated
edit: foothills should really be catacombs but ehh. $$$$
ONLY FOR PLAYERS WHO USE BS MIRE INSTEAD OF ANY GREEN FETCHLAND BECAUSE OF BUDGET ISSUES:
Play 2 swamps and 2 Overgrown Tombs instead of 3 forests and 2 Temple Gardens!
GWB Angel PodWBR Mardu MidrangeGWB Wilted Abzan
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
EDH:
WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG
UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
Your deck seems much slower than common versions of the deck and feels like it's trying to go over the top. I think that if you're going to be slower, you have to cut some cards for some number of Thoughtseize in the main deck. I also think Courser of Kruphix just feels bad. Courser is trying to gain card advantage over a longer game, but I don't see where the payoff is. Your top end is Primeval Titan and Batterskull. Primeval Titan can get your Gavony Township and Vault of the Archangels, but that's still a "down-the-road" proposition. Batterskull is solid, but if you don't slam that turn 3 against a lot of decks, you're probably already winning or dead. Basically, you might surprise/confuse someone in game 1 of a match, but I don't see how this beats the proven or established decks beyond R/X aggro, and I still think R/X aggro has a chance to slide under your ability to go over-the-top in games 2 and 3. There are other issues I see, but until you figure out whether you want tempo, control or disruption, the other problems don't matter.
If I understand correctly the RG Tron Matchup is nearly unwinnable.
Cards like Stony Silence, Aven Mindcensor and Fulminator Mage can help to prevent them from assembling the Urzatron.
Gaddock Teeg stops All Is Dust, Karn and Ugin, but it dies to Piroclasm if we don't have Liege.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
EDH:
WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG
UGEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
Of course, if you want to optmize for your local meta I guess it is ok to cut some tools against some less frequent decks to increase your chances against a deck you know you'll probably face.
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
My question, how do you deal with twin with only 2 mb abrupt decays? Im running 3 and i still get hosed. My meta is.filled with twin.
I also saw that you only have 1 scooze in sb. Hows your burn matchup?
I have 2 pridemages in mainboard, do you not find a need for them?
Its my 2nd week running wilted abzan and ive had a 50-50 result so far.
i would look to get rid of the smiter in your sb, i find 3 is enough most times.
the grixis matchup generally favors liege abzan, even without choke. i would look to shave one of them as well.
cheers!
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
3x Razorverge Thicket
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Kitchen Finks
3x Loxodon Smiter
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Siege Rhino
4x Voice of Resurgence
3x Wilt-Leaf Liege
Instant (8)
4x Abrupt Decay
1x Dromoka's Command
3x Path to Exile
3x Thoughtseize
2x Choke
2x stony silence
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Fulminator mage
1x Rending volley
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Path to Exile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Engineered Explosives
I've essentially cut the Noble's in favor of Thoughtseize, and took out Lingering souls for Qasali and scooze which i feel are better. Overall thoughts on my deck? Should i just cut the birds for Inquision at this point or does a hybrid between dork/dork-less make sense?
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company
RWG Burn
GW Abzan Company