Congrats on the great GP finish! Used to play Naya Company then switched to E-tron and Merfolk. But gave your list a try at a side event and have to say it felt good slamming Nacatls again. Also the commands were good.
Only have a small sample (3 matches) went 2-0 (4-0 in games) against Jund and eldrazi and taxes but the living end matchup was very bad (0-2) In naya company I had Eidelon of Rhetoric, but that doesn’t work well with BBE. Any suggestions?
Also not sure whether 21 lands is enough. Used to play 22 lands and 5 mana dorks. How is your mana screw rate so far?
Summarized, will keep running the list a bit longer. Maybe adding 1 company and some walkers. Will let you guys know how it went (although the next tournament is unfortunately only after 2 weeks..)
Ps: cool you have everything foiled out! I am actually in the process of defoiling. So have now merfolk, e tron and different kind of zoo in non-foil Japanese
Thanks! Yeah, Living End can be rough with the list I run. You pretty much have to have noble into scooze into them not having living end right away. It's not easy, but the trick is to force them to cast it twice and hope they can't exile your GY. Voice is busted in the matchup, as is Goyf/Knight/Scooze. To stop them from going off the first time you can also try jamming thalia and make them pay 4 for it, but that's not always going to work. It's honestly not a good matchup, and you kinda have to accept it.
I used to play 22 lands originally, but I felt like I just got to 5/6 lands too often for my liking. If I did play a 22nd land though it would most likely be a creature land, because I don't think you want to make the deck less threat dense.
If growing your goyf is the goal, Seal of Fire is my go to card. I run a pretty of-the-wall list, but in my version it also synergizes very well with Renegade Rallier and provides a ton of reach, removal and recursion.
I took this list to GP Hartford. I went 5-2 on day 1 and 0-2 drop on day 2.
round 1 (bye)
Apparently I had enough PW points. I had no idea. I don't pay attention.
round 2 2-0 over UB Faeries
Ok lol. Easy first round. Remands and Fatal Pushes against my beaters. GLHF.
round 3 0-2 Affinity
I mull to 5 game 1.
He has double cranial plating draws and I draw one removal spell. I'm dead on turn 4 both games. His last game was turn 3 Champ, turn 4 2nd plating equip both lethal you. So... cool, I guess.
round 4 mardu pyro 2-0
Stock Pyro list. I run it over with beaters. Lingering Souls is no match for big gw idiots.
round 5 burn 2-1
Game 2 he sticks an ensnaring bridge and has a eidolon. We're at similar life totals. He forces my hand on Helix and has the skullcrack. Darn.
Game 3 he points burn at my creatures which is never a winning recipe.
round 6 elves 1-2
Game one he wins the dice roll and I have one removal on a bad 5 card hand. Kinda' limpin' here.
Game two I stick a t2 Gaddock Teeg that bricks 3 cards in his hand. Pew pew. Keeping 'em honest.
Game three he develops a board state where he has infinite mana with no cards in hand. I deploy a Teeg since it shuts off his topdeck chord or coco kill. I'm out of removal in hand. He topdecks Ezuri. Darn.
round 7 infect 2-1
Game one I get ranched. I deploy a couple blockers but he eventually plows through all of them with an elf and pump spells. He finishes me off with a nexus and become immense.
game two I get him on the back foot (hey, isn't this all of modern?) and smack him around for playing a slower game. I destructive revelry his wild defiance.
game 3 is very close. He sticks a couple nexi and a spellskite and I have a slow Nacatl and 3/4 Goyf hand. I bide my time and get him to 10. He goes for a pumped up 6 infect point life swing (Wild Defiance + apostle's blessing [he takes 2 to cast] to get it past my active stirring wildwood + 2x exalted) putting me to 9 infect and dead the next turn to either of his nexi. I see his skite and the writing on the wall. He's at 8 but has tapped low to push infect through. He only has skite as a blocker. I dome him with the bolt in my hand. He hasn't figured out that he left himself dead to Wildwood + two other bodies. I crack back and seal the deal.
round 8 bant eldrazi 2-0
I get a stalled game one with an active knight. He plays two drowners and reanimates one with e. witness. Netting himself a ton of tokens. Seeing the writing on the wall, I make an attack that left me dead on the crack back. He's at 8 and has a ton of toughness making it so that if he blocked everything appropriately (there were at least 30 different blocks he could've made that would've killed me), my untapped knight for kessig would not be lethal. He did not block everything and put a token in front of my 4/5 goyf. I find the gimmick and win on the spot. #kessiglife
He also didn't tap my knight in combat? Nor did he ever do it? Magic is weird.
Game 2 I stall the game out with Knight again. He sticks an early worship. He has double ee for my mana dorks and my goyfs. I jam an ooze after the fact and get to work. He lets himself get to 4 with the worship in play. Incidentally, I sided in Destructive Revelry since I still have flashbacks to losing to this card. I draw one, boop him for two and lethal him with my idiots.
Woot! We're into day 2.
Day 2 sort of looked like zulanders but a lot shorter.
round 9 1-2 UW control
I got game one
Games 2 and 3 he resolves t2 oust t3 oust t4 wrath t5 wrath t6 jace back up mana leak
I ask him what his build was like. 0 cantrips (serum visions, opt, etc.) and he boarded into 6 wrath effects, Blessed Alliance and more Ousts. Ok lol. You got me.
round 10 jund 0-2
I mull to 5 vs Jund and he does his thing.
I mull to 6 and keep a hand that has a bolt and no red mana (temple garden, horizon canopy, hierarch). I don't draw red mana until he's drawn like 8 cards off his bobs and I can't deploy more than one threat a turn, allowing him to keep pace with his removal. Finally I draw a red mana, and I just start jamming BBEs that can't attack. The BBE hits were not removal spells. Just turn 8, 9, and 10 wild nacatls. He sticks a scooze after I make an aggressive attack trying to end the game with a scooze to clean up. He has a lot more green mana than I do. When he sticks a Kalitas with 5 cards in hand I scoop as I'm all outta' cards.
I think I misplayed game 2. I need to make decisions not operating under the assumption that I would draw a 3rd land. I did not until he was at 7-8 mana and I payed for my decisions.
Anyway, since I did not have pro points going and since I was out of cash, I drop and head home.
The GP was fun and I enjoyed the deck. I do not think I'd play Smiter moving forward. The card is just not good. Perhaps a card like Nissa, Vastwood Seer, something that I've played earlier might be more appropriate. I lost a majority of my games because I stumbled on lands -- even against uw control. I've also played Merfolk Branchwalker in a RG blood moon stompy deck. Perhaps something like that -- with Ghor Clans and the like to make the body relevant. I lost to Jund soley because I had non-functional draws. I had 10 losses over the tournament. 3 of them were on mulls to 5 -- and they weren't mulls because I was looking for hate, I was looking for lands and spells. I recognize that we flood out but maybe we should be thinking about 23 lands and more ways to filter what we're doing. Maybe even cut wild nacatl. For everytime it's aggressive, it's a turn 8 3/3 for 1 mana.
For a midrange deck, that's insanely frustrating. Don't we play midrange so we feel like our decisions matter? Anyway, Perhaps the deck needs a different angle.
I had thoughts of packing my RG Stompy moon deck and brought the pieces. Perhaps I would've had more success blood mooning people?
Narnam Renegade is great in Bushwhacker Zoo because it's pseudo removal in an otherwise very spell light deck. I.e. It trades up where bolt doesn't reach every which way you put it, even without revolt.
In Big Zoo though, we run a mix of Bolt, Helix and, currently very important, Path to Exile. I don't feel the deck needs anything more since our grounded creatures usually are allready bigger than our opponents. Amongst them are Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary and Scavenging Ooze.
If you're looking for a viable replacement for Wild Nacatl though then by all means, take Narnam Renegade. Otherwise, I personally wouldn't add another one drop.
Why would one trade nacalt in big zoo? I mean, Ive done it for naya midrange. But like, those are reallllly not zoo.
Not really certain for "Big Zoo" lists.
If I were to replace Wild Nacatl it would be for more mana dorks and more top-end/mana sinks (which you stated is more like Naya Midrange). Replacing it for Kird Apes is not a winning recipe.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I actually saw your decklist yesterday on mtgdecks.net, congratulations on the result. I really like the list, looks consistent and very straightforward. How have the Tireless Trackers performed? Also, why so much artifact/enchantment hate? Were expecting a lot of Affinity/Lantern/Boggles?
Obstinate Baloth out of the sideboard seems very well positioned for its flexibility (good against any sort of aggro, Jund, Hollow One, etc)
Thank for sharing!
Not mine haha, just sharing because it's exciting to see big zoo doing well every so often, showcasing how flexible and powerful the deck can be.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
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Thanks! Yeah, Living End can be rough with the list I run. You pretty much have to have noble into scooze into them not having living end right away. It's not easy, but the trick is to force them to cast it twice and hope they can't exile your GY. Voice is busted in the matchup, as is Goyf/Knight/Scooze. To stop them from going off the first time you can also try jamming thalia and make them pay 4 for it, but that's not always going to work. It's honestly not a good matchup, and you kinda have to accept it.
I used to play 22 lands originally, but I felt like I just got to 5/6 lands too often for my liking. If I did play a 22nd land though it would most likely be a creature land, because I don't think you want to make the deck less threat dense.
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What do we think?
It's like a T1 Inquisition in the sense that it grows Tarmogoyf and *maybe* lets us lower our curve and run more one ofs.
I pref oath of nissa
I don't think cantrips are meant for this deck. I think you want card quality by being redundant and a high impact board presence.
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You are right. the deck have no room for that kind of card but if i have to choose between the 2 cards, i take oath.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
2-0 vs UR Moon
2-0 vs GW Bogles
1-2 vs RG Eldrazi
I think I played bad on G3 here, maybe I could have won.
2-1 vs Merfolk.
G3 on the draw, he mulls and I decided to keep a hand of 3 fetches, 3 Bolts and 1 Tribal Flames. Got there. Killed 4 lords.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
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4x Wild Nacatl
4x Tarmogoyf
3x Scavenging Ooze
2x Voice of Resurgence
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Loxodon Smiter
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
1x Dromoka's Command
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
2x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garder
2x Forest
1x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Destructive Revelry
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Stony Silence
1x Fracturing Gust
1x Declaration in Stone
3x Molten Rain
2x Gaddock Teeg
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
3x Obstinate Baloth
I took this list to GP Hartford. I went 5-2 on day 1 and 0-2 drop on day 2.
round 1 (bye)
Apparently I had enough PW points. I had no idea. I don't pay attention.
round 2 2-0 over UB Faeries
Ok lol. Easy first round. Remands and Fatal Pushes against my beaters. GLHF.
round 3 0-2 Affinity
I mull to 5 game 1.
He has double cranial plating draws and I draw one removal spell. I'm dead on turn 4 both games. His last game was turn 3 Champ, turn 4 2nd plating equip both lethal you. So... cool, I guess.
round 4 mardu pyro 2-0
Stock Pyro list. I run it over with beaters. Lingering Souls is no match for big gw idiots.
round 5 burn 2-1
Game 2 he sticks an ensnaring bridge and has a eidolon. We're at similar life totals. He forces my hand on Helix and has the skullcrack. Darn.
Game 3 he points burn at my creatures which is never a winning recipe.
round 6 elves 1-2
Game one he wins the dice roll and I have one removal on a bad 5 card hand. Kinda' limpin' here.
Game two I stick a t2 Gaddock Teeg that bricks 3 cards in his hand. Pew pew. Keeping 'em honest.
Game three he develops a board state where he has infinite mana with no cards in hand. I deploy a Teeg since it shuts off his topdeck chord or coco kill. I'm out of removal in hand. He topdecks Ezuri. Darn.
round 7 infect 2-1
Game one I get ranched. I deploy a couple blockers but he eventually plows through all of them with an elf and pump spells. He finishes me off with a nexus and become immense.
game two I get him on the back foot (hey, isn't this all of modern?) and smack him around for playing a slower game. I destructive revelry his wild defiance.
game 3 is very close. He sticks a couple nexi and a spellskite and I have a slow Nacatl and 3/4 Goyf hand. I bide my time and get him to 10. He goes for a pumped up 6 infect point life swing (Wild Defiance + apostle's blessing [he takes 2 to cast] to get it past my active stirring wildwood + 2x exalted) putting me to 9 infect and dead the next turn to either of his nexi. I see his skite and the writing on the wall. He's at 8 but has tapped low to push infect through. He only has skite as a blocker. I dome him with the bolt in my hand. He hasn't figured out that he left himself dead to Wildwood + two other bodies. I crack back and seal the deal.
round 8 bant eldrazi 2-0
I get a stalled game one with an active knight. He plays two drowners and reanimates one with e. witness. Netting himself a ton of tokens. Seeing the writing on the wall, I make an attack that left me dead on the crack back. He's at 8 and has a ton of toughness making it so that if he blocked everything appropriately (there were at least 30 different blocks he could've made that would've killed me), my untapped knight for kessig would not be lethal. He did not block everything and put a token in front of my 4/5 goyf. I find the gimmick and win on the spot. #kessiglife
He also didn't tap my knight in combat? Nor did he ever do it? Magic is weird.
Game 2 I stall the game out with Knight again. He sticks an early worship. He has double ee for my mana dorks and my goyfs. I jam an ooze after the fact and get to work. He lets himself get to 4 with the worship in play. Incidentally, I sided in Destructive Revelry since I still have flashbacks to losing to this card. I draw one, boop him for two and lethal him with my idiots.
Woot! We're into day 2.
Day 2 sort of looked like zulanders but a lot shorter.
round 9 1-2 UW control
I got game one
Games 2 and 3 he resolves t2 oust t3 oust t4 wrath t5 wrath t6 jace back up mana leak
I ask him what his build was like. 0 cantrips (serum visions, opt, etc.) and he boarded into 6 wrath effects, Blessed Alliance and more Ousts. Ok lol. You got me.
round 10 jund 0-2
I mull to 5 vs Jund and he does his thing.
I mull to 6 and keep a hand that has a bolt and no red mana (temple garden, horizon canopy, hierarch). I don't draw red mana until he's drawn like 8 cards off his bobs and I can't deploy more than one threat a turn, allowing him to keep pace with his removal. Finally I draw a red mana, and I just start jamming BBEs that can't attack. The BBE hits were not removal spells. Just turn 8, 9, and 10 wild nacatls. He sticks a scooze after I make an aggressive attack trying to end the game with a scooze to clean up. He has a lot more green mana than I do. When he sticks a Kalitas with 5 cards in hand I scoop as I'm all outta' cards.
I think I misplayed game 2. I need to make decisions not operating under the assumption that I would draw a 3rd land. I did not until he was at 7-8 mana and I payed for my decisions.
Anyway, since I did not have pro points going and since I was out of cash, I drop and head home.
The GP was fun and I enjoyed the deck. I do not think I'd play Smiter moving forward. The card is just not good. Perhaps a card like Nissa, Vastwood Seer, something that I've played earlier might be more appropriate. I lost a majority of my games because I stumbled on lands -- even against uw control. I've also played Merfolk Branchwalker in a RG blood moon stompy deck. Perhaps something like that -- with Ghor Clans and the like to make the body relevant. I lost to Jund soley because I had non-functional draws. I had 10 losses over the tournament. 3 of them were on mulls to 5 -- and they weren't mulls because I was looking for hate, I was looking for lands and spells. I recognize that we flood out but maybe we should be thinking about 23 lands and more ways to filter what we're doing. Maybe even cut wild nacatl. For everytime it's aggressive, it's a turn 8 3/3 for 1 mana.
For a midrange deck, that's insanely frustrating. Don't we play midrange so we feel like our decisions matter? Anyway, Perhaps the deck needs a different angle.
I had thoughts of packing my RG Stompy moon deck and brought the pieces. Perhaps I would've had more success blood mooning people?
In Big Zoo though, we run a mix of Bolt, Helix and, currently very important, Path to Exile. I don't feel the deck needs anything more since our grounded creatures usually are allready bigger than our opponents. Amongst them are Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary and Scavenging Ooze.
If you're looking for a viable replacement for Wild Nacatl though then by all means, take Narnam Renegade. Otherwise, I personally wouldn't add another one drop.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Not really certain for "Big Zoo" lists.
If I were to replace Wild Nacatl it would be for more mana dorks and more top-end/mana sinks (which you stated is more like Naya Midrange). Replacing it for Kird Apes is not a winning recipe.
I wouldn't, but if one does not have Nacatls to play with, Narnam Renegade could very well fit the slot.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
I guess it all depends on whether you curve out at 2, 3 or 4cmc.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
1 Domri Rade
Creature (26)
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Wild Nacatl
Instant (10)
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
3 Arid Mesa
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Domri Rade
1 Path to Exile
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Stony Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
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4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Renegade Rallier
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
Instant (8)
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
2 Arid Mesa
2 Forest
1 Blood Crypt
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Archangel Avacyn
1 Blood Moon
2 Molten Rain
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield Of Emeria
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Unburial Rites
Gonna take this to my Local LGS. Took some ideas from previous lists added a Gifts package in the side. Any suggestions?
Not mine haha, just sharing because it's exciting to see big zoo doing well every so often, showcasing how flexible and powerful the deck can be.