I've been away from Zoo for quite a while. What's the current consensus on the best build for Domain Zoo?
There aren't enough players talking about the deck to reach a consensus on the best build. For what it's worth I'll post my list. Now I ain't no big city mtg pro, just a humble fnm regular who enjoys siege rhino a bit too much. Having said that, this list has done me justice for years, requiring only slight sideboard tweaks as the meta evolved. I have been playing the same 60 since the twin era:
My list is similar to your list w7west, however mine was a slight tweak to a domain list I saw do well in a league a while back; http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16839&d=304182&f=MO
Ended up going 4-1 at the FNM I played it at a few weeks ago, only losing to god hands from G/X Tron.
Tamiyo was interesting where everyone was afraid of it when it resolved and dedicated a lot of resources to get it off the field. Could probably just be rhinos 3-4. Lavamancer's were solid, especially when I played against humans. Sideboard was for local meta.
lugger, how are the 4 mana surrak's treating you? Ever since I saw the lists you posted, I've been wanting to test them out in a non-CoCo Naya and Zoo Knightfall list, but haven't had the time.
Tamiyo was interesting where everyone was afraid of it when it resolved and dedicated a lot of resources to get it off the field. Could probably just be rhinos 3-4. Lavamancer's were solid, especially when I played against humans. Sideboard was for local meta.
I love the lavaman, he absolutely is the kind of blue chip tier card that goes into this deck. I'm a bit of a snob so I won't play him unless I get a nice quality torment foil version but I absolutely would rock him over the birds if I had one.
As for the tamiyo, it does seem interesting and probably even good. The thing about 4 drops that aren't siege rhino is that.... well you could have had a siege rhino! It's like buying watches, yea you got a really great deal on that grand seiko, and yea it is a beautiful watch, but man, you could have gotten a ROOOOLEX!! Rhino is the rolex of four drops, hope this makes sense but probably not haha. I think I probably just love rhinos too much (and rolex but that is a whole other issue)
I don't blame you about loving the Rhinos. I love casting back to back rhinos.
As for lavaman, I would continue including 2 in the main for my future domain lists. I was never really a fan of having a birds, but I understood why to run it. Lavaman gives incremental value that is invaluable.
I don't remember the games exactly, but I do remember casting a Tamiyo against my 5C hoomans opponent, and he spent at least a minute in the tank his next turn trying to decide whether or not it was a threat (our board states were about even). He eventually did correctly decide that it needed to be dealt with since me drawing cards and him not drawing cards could be an issue.
I played a bit with Tamiyo, Field Researcher last year in Tribal Zoo. I found it to be super average and best in Jund MUs or others where the ground might get gummed up. She's like a Zoo Cryptic Command. Alongside her, I found that Huntmaster of the Fells played better with her than any other 4 drop.
1. Huntmaster is easy to cast and gains life.
2. Requires an immediate answer.
3. Goes wide and is more resilient to removal spells than Rhino -- which you need for Tamiyo to be effective. You need to stick threats that leave lots of bodies to make Tamyio's modes relevant.
Surrak is super duper below average but I wanted some things in my list.
1. I wanted a 5 power idiot that traded with Gurmags and Reality Smashers.
2. I wanted a 4 drop that could easily get haste vs scapeshift, tron, or the like.
3. I wanted something to easily turn on Rhonas the Indomitable and make blocking miserable.
Maybe Surrak should be a Thundermaw Hellkite or Stormbreath Dragon. It should not be a planeswalker, unfortunately, given that PWs don't turn on Rhonas (ok, I guess Sarkhan and Nissa variants do). Maybe it could be a 1x Hazoret the Fervent and 1x Surrak or the like. Generally speaking, I like the list and think it's in a better spot than CoCo right now -- I've long been lukewarm to the card.
Played with my above list at the classic -- except I let my friends build me a SB and the SB was bad. I had a slew of Leylines and Gideons -- which was way too much.
Went 6-3. Only one 6-3 top 32'd. I lost early so it wasn't me.
I don't have much in the way of a tourney report other than that Big Zoo is still interactive and fast enough to win games.
The Main deck Thalias have been hit and miss. Sometimes they set me back a turn by not being able to trigger the Surge cost on bushwhacker with a 1 mana spell (rancor, bolt). Other times they have slowed down opp just enough to buy me another turn to swing in for the win. Still not sure if they belong in the side or main. She seems to be kind of a nonbo with the molten rains in the side so perhaps I’m better off siding her out when I bring in the rains.
Ive been liking the additional green 1cmc spells to use the mana off herbalists (namely the 3 rancor) but there are many times where I’m all revved up with GG but no where to go staring at a hand of bushwhackers, atk com and bolts. It works real well when there is a BTE to convert the mana into something usable, or when casting the herbalists on turn 3 or later but this kind of defeats the purpose of her ability to speed up the deck. I feel like manamorphoses could smooth this out a bit but would have to take the place of the Thalias in the main.
I’m running 2 Lone Missionary and 2 Tin Street Hooligan in the side. The Hooligans have been great at nabbing random artifacts like expedition map, Aether vial, etc. without losing me a lot of tempo if I were to take a turn off of belching out creatures to cast a Revelry. I feel pretty confident against burn on the play, so the Missionaries are only really decent on the draw when I have to play a bit more defensively. They have changed the race math a few times for me, allowing me to swing with the team when I’d ofherwise have to leave back a chump or two.
I really miss rampager and rancor has not really been a great substitute. I know the fact that it is so bad with herbalist and bte mana makes it kind of bad in this shell, but man do I really miss that card. Chain to the rocks has been solid in clearing away blockers with fat butts but it’s just not the same. *tear*
Friendship ended with Collected Company. Bloodbraid Elf is my new best friend.
Can't wait to do things like BBE cascade into Geist of Saint Traft / Knight of the Reliquary / Domri Rade / Renegade Rallier and lots of other fun stuff.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I've seen it floating around a bit and there have been some 5-0's in the past few months (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-wurg-44592#paper). I've been playing it for a bit and it seems pretty good but I can't find any discussion/primer past the one article that Gabriel Nassif wrote on CFB. It seems to run a lot of Zoo staples so maybe it's a zoo deck? Also I figure it can probably run BBE as well and maybe forgo Voice of Resurgence? Anyways, was wondering if anyone knew anything about this build and if it even could be considered Zoo. Thanks!
Bloodbraid Elf is now THE best maindeckable top-end spell in Zoo. Collected Company can kindly f*uck off.
Mana dorks obviously help cast Bloodbraid Elf sooner, but I don't want to be on too many mana dorks because they decrease the quality of your Cascades. 4 Hierarchs 0 Birds is what I'll try initially.
Considering the above, I'll start with 3 Bloodbraid Elves rather than 4.
Domri Rade's stock has gone up as a noncreature card advantage engine you can Cascade into.
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Ok, so I switched over to my computer so I can type up a long response. I know Ive been pretty dormant but I've played extesively with Bloodbraid elf and Jace back in the day, so I can save you guys some leg work in this.
This unban is ultimately good for us. Zoo has always preyed on control and tempo decks... Tempo has popped up and disappeared in modern often but control has never really been good. This will solve alot of their problems, so ironically, alot of ours. Ive been saying for years that Zoo's biggest weakness is control sucks.
All of our cards are all good vs Jace. Literally all of them.
The meat of it. Bloodbraid is good. Very good. But don't be fooled, she isn't absolutely disgusting in our deck. When she is hitting 3-2 drops and absurd swingy spells she is... which means shes better in jund. BB into bolt is aggressive for us, but BB into lillina is #broke. BBE is an aggressive card, who is best played late game when both players have run low on resources. Often we run low, play her and the Opponent can still 2 for 1 us fine because they haven't and she didnt do much at all. But she does help make closing out the game better for us.
My main point is... dont overestimate Bloodbraid Elf. Its a very good card, but isn't absolutely broken for us. Her role should (and always should be) to close the game. Those times she recovers our board after a wipe, or is the perfect blocker nabs us a perfect combo piece, are few and far between. But she does do that one job, closing the game, better than any card aside from maybe elspeth and siege rhino.
Now lets get to the good stuff about her since we can be a little realistic now we know her limitations. As Ive said, she closes the game on turn 4 and is broken on turn 3. You should be playing her in all versions of zoo now as a top ender... but not always a 4 of. In some of the lower curved lists that number should be 2. In some of the zoo lists that have only around 4-5 3 drops, she should be a 3 of. In any list running 4 Noble Hierarchs, she should be a 4 of, as turn 3ing her is absurd.
Zoo also can go back to some value creatures unless you are balls to the walls blitz. Pridemage, Thalia, voice, ooze all get better because of her. As do all sideboard cards. She increases the chance you will hit them. So Id change our sides to be more narrow but powerful answers. Run stuff like blood moon over edge or ghost quarter. You have more "draw power" and more pressure now, you just need to patch bad match ups, not prep for overall weakness now that just attacking can win you the game.
Id also tend to add more burn when I have elf. Helix for example is great. Bloodbraid really removes the reactiveness zoo can sometimes pack. You arent going to be casting stuff that wont have a target. Which is why burn is preferred over path. You wont be running counter spells either if you were doing that, or even stuff like Boros charm. I have my doubts about renegade rallier as well. Main decks cards should have cards that are "always on" because thats the only way to really turn blood braid to max.
This card should be absolutely gone from our lists. At best, this card is worth 6 mana (2 3dudes) and at worst gives you 0 if you flop. Bloodbraid will always give you 4 worth of value (3/2 haste is worth 3 and cascade will always hit at least 1 mana) which is 4 more mana than company's worst case. Its best case is 6 (3 mana dude plus bloodbraid) so its the same.
The only place company is better is being better vs control (meh, were fine vs that, plus agrueable since bbe is 2 spells) board wipes/ removal, and finding silver bullets. But we arent a silver bullet deck. Sometimes we pack em, but we pack em fairly. So Company was always worse in our deck. BBE is better.
I'm not sure BBE replaces this in domain. Both cards do the same thing, and might be around the same level in power. BBelf might be slightly higher since it can hit flames. In domain sometimes you play discard and counters though, in which case Id play rhino over it. This is the only spot I cant for sure say Elf is better. I dunno. Up to the hive mind. My suggestion is to swap it and really be critical about its abilities.
Jund is going to be better now, so its useage and power level just went up, which is bad for us. Keep that in mind.
So blitz zoo, bigger zoo, 4-5 color zoo or small zoo? My bet is on bigger zoo. Blitz likes the speed, but 4 mana is a tall ask. I'm sure they adopt the card as a 2 of for games that go longer, but I wouldnt call that a huge upgrade. 4-5 color zoo, the issue has been mana as always. Its painful. this makes it better, forsure, but its not like deathrite shaman got unbanned, the card that WOULD fix their problems. As Ive said, rhino is comparable... so I think the deck has more options and power now, but not fixing the main issue.
Small zoo sucks. Its uninteractive, 2/3s for 1 mana are terrible since gurmag angler. Bbelfing into a kird ape feels bad. No.
Bigger zoo checks all the ways to make an aggressive bbelf at peak opimization. Mana dorks to turn 3 it, more 3 and 2 drops to make better value out of it, reliably hit it turn 4. I actually would cut 5 drops out of the deck for better 3 drops now because bbelf into a 3 drop (or burn) is much stronger and faster and impact the game.
heres a short list of cards that all got better with BBElf
All normal beat down dudes like nacatl
All forms of burn (makes path and discard worse)
goblin guide
vexing devil
grim lavamancer
Noble Heirch
Thalia
Ooze
Voice
Pridemage
Knight of the reliquary
Kitchen Finks
Atarkas command
Seal of fire
Seal of pandamonium
Domri Rade
Gideon of the trials
Sideboard cards that are enchantments, artifacts, or bodies.
Doesnt work anymore. Sorry you guys can't live the dream like the old days.
So I'm not sure if this makes zoo better than humans. I've been out of the loop for a while but came back on pro tour to watch it... And humans kinda acts like a tribal version small zoo. Its a weird blend of hatebears and small zoo. Basically everything in the deck interacts with the opponent, or beats down, and it does that job really well. Honestly... if they wanted too they could run elf. It worries me a bit, because if humans does what zoo does but better, you get into an out classed situation, which isnt good.
Overall... Look, BBELF helps zoo compete. We can actually abuse it. We dont use it like jund does, we use it much more aggressively. But I'm not sure this is the card to save the zoo decks. I'm still full on about how zoo needs another 1 3/3. Right now, you can go faster and lose the long game, or go slower and lose the early game. A 3/3 at 1 lets us win the short game and still compete into the long game. BBElf in my opinion certainly raises the power level of zoo, but doesn't fix the core issue as to why we arent top tier.
So I'm not sure if this makes zoo better than humans. I've been out of the loop for a while but came back on pro tour to watch it... And humans kinda acts like a tribal version small zoo. Its a weird blend of hatebears and small zoo. Basically everything in the deck interacts with the opponent, or beats down, and it does that job really well. Honestly... if they wanted too they could run elf. It worries me a bit, because if humans does what zoo does but better, you get into an out classed situation, which isnt good.
Zoo has stark differences and MUs pros and cons.
Humans is, and probably never will be, robust against removal spells -- whereas Zoo is a different story and can often shrug them off.
Tron and storm, however, are very good MUs for Humans.
In this sense, open fields like Opens, GPs, and PTs are pretty great for Humans -- disrupt the players who think everyone won't interact with them.
Present a fast clock and rip apart their hand -- a great plan against decks that lack redundancy.
However, against other midrange decks, I feel that zoo can easily go toe-to-toe and bash through the board stall -- where as Humans needs to draw all their damn Mantis Riders.
Anyway, we'll see how the meta changes. If it shifts away from Tron, I think we'll be sitting pretty -- especially with the power level that UW control decks have gotten in recent months. In my moderate amount of testing we're favored against the decks trying to snag Tron and Storm -- RB Hollow One, Humans, Burn, Jeskai, and Jund/4color DS.
This was posted on the modern subreddit. Looks super fun imo https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/937030. Trying to figure out what I want to play coming up. I want to be aggro so I'm torn between this and R/B hollow one.
This was posted on the modern subreddit. Looks super fun imo https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/937030. Trying to figure out what I want to play coming up. I want to be aggro so I'm torn between this and R/B hollow one.
I think TBR would be better than Tribal Flames in that list. It's harkening back to the first DS lists to make it big.
I'll be going to a 2/2 split of rhino/bbe in tribal zoo. Cascade into snap is weak, I'll be cutting snap for k command. Cascade into path is also not great, I'll be going from 4/2 path/helix split to 2/4 split. 2 extra helix offsets playing with 2 fewer rhinos.
With 2 k command I'd feel ok exploring alternatives to qasali. Lotus cobra comes to mind. Bringing in 2 cobras makes the one of bird unnecessary and I will swap it with a lavaman.
Lots of tinkering going on but I am excited to see how it goes. I think overall this version is less powerful than before but it could be worth giving up some raw power to be immune to blood moons thanks to cobras and bbe.
My list is similar to your list w7west, however mine was a slight tweak to a domain list I saw do well in a league a while back; http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16839&d=304182&f=MO
Ended up going 4-1 at the FNM I played it at a few weeks ago, only losing to god hands from G/X Tron.
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Arid Mesa
1x Temple Garden
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Godless Shrine
1x Blood Crypt
1x Forest
1x Plains
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Qasali Pridemage
3x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Siege Rhino
Spells (16)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
4x Tribal Flames
2x Tamiyo, Field Researcher
2x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Stubborn Denial
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Stony Silence
1x Disdainful Stroke
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Lingering Souls
1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Tamiyo was interesting where everyone was afraid of it when it resolved and dedicated a lot of resources to get it off the field. Could probably just be rhinos 3-4. Lavamancer's were solid, especially when I played against humans. Sideboard was for local meta.
lugger, how are the 4 mana surrak's treating you? Ever since I saw the lists you posted, I've been wanting to test them out in a non-CoCo Naya and Zoo Knightfall list, but haven't had the time.
I love the lavaman, he absolutely is the kind of blue chip tier card that goes into this deck. I'm a bit of a snob so I won't play him unless I get a nice quality torment foil version but I absolutely would rock him over the birds if I had one.
As for the tamiyo, it does seem interesting and probably even good. The thing about 4 drops that aren't siege rhino is that.... well you could have had a siege rhino! It's like buying watches, yea you got a really great deal on that grand seiko, and yea it is a beautiful watch, but man, you could have gotten a ROOOOLEX!! Rhino is the rolex of four drops, hope this makes sense but probably not haha. I think I probably just love rhinos too much (and rolex but that is a whole other issue)
Tribal Zoo video series
As for lavaman, I would continue including 2 in the main for my future domain lists. I was never really a fan of having a birds, but I understood why to run it. Lavaman gives incremental value that is invaluable.
I don't remember the games exactly, but I do remember casting a Tamiyo against my 5C hoomans opponent, and he spent at least a minute in the tank his next turn trying to decide whether or not it was a threat (our board states were about even). He eventually did correctly decide that it needed to be dealt with since me drawing cards and him not drawing cards could be an issue.
1. Huntmaster is easy to cast and gains life.
2. Requires an immediate answer.
3. Goes wide and is more resilient to removal spells than Rhino -- which you need for Tamiyo to be effective. You need to stick threats that leave lots of bodies to make Tamyio's modes relevant.
Anyway, addressing Surrak, the Hunt Caller.
Surrak is super duper below average but I wanted some things in my list.
1. I wanted a 5 power idiot that traded with Gurmags and Reality Smashers.
2. I wanted a 4 drop that could easily get haste vs scapeshift, tron, or the like.
3. I wanted something to easily turn on Rhonas the Indomitable and make blocking miserable.
Maybe Surrak should be a Thundermaw Hellkite or Stormbreath Dragon. It should not be a planeswalker, unfortunately, given that PWs don't turn on Rhonas (ok, I guess Sarkhan and Nissa variants do). Maybe it could be a 1x Hazoret the Fervent and 1x Surrak or the like. Generally speaking, I like the list and think it's in a better spot than CoCo right now -- I've long been lukewarm to the card.
Went 6-3. Only one 6-3 top 32'd. I lost early so it wasn't me.
I don't have much in the way of a tourney report other than that Big Zoo is still interactive and fast enough to win games.
The Main deck Thalias have been hit and miss. Sometimes they set me back a turn by not being able to trigger the Surge cost on bushwhacker with a 1 mana spell (rancor, bolt). Other times they have slowed down opp just enough to buy me another turn to swing in for the win. Still not sure if they belong in the side or main. She seems to be kind of a nonbo with the molten rains in the side so perhaps I’m better off siding her out when I bring in the rains.
Ive been liking the additional green 1cmc spells to use the mana off herbalists (namely the 3 rancor) but there are many times where I’m all revved up with GG but no where to go staring at a hand of bushwhackers, atk com and bolts. It works real well when there is a BTE to convert the mana into something usable, or when casting the herbalists on turn 3 or later but this kind of defeats the purpose of her ability to speed up the deck. I feel like manamorphoses could smooth this out a bit but would have to take the place of the Thalias in the main.
I’m running 2 Lone Missionary and 2 Tin Street Hooligan in the side. The Hooligans have been great at nabbing random artifacts like expedition map, Aether vial, etc. without losing me a lot of tempo if I were to take a turn off of belching out creatures to cast a Revelry. I feel pretty confident against burn on the play, so the Missionaries are only really decent on the draw when I have to play a bit more defensively. They have changed the race math a few times for me, allowing me to swing with the team when I’d ofherwise have to leave back a chump or two.
I really miss rampager and rancor has not really been a great substitute. I know the fact that it is so bad with herbalist and bte mana makes it kind of bad in this shell, but man do I really miss that card. Chain to the rocks has been solid in clearing away blockers with fat butts but it’s just not the same. *tear*
RBGJundRBG
UBRGrixis ControlUBR
She's back, boys and girls.
What do we do?
4x Wild Nacatl
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Lotus Cobra
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lingering Souls
2x Lightning Helix
4x Windswept Heath
3x Arid Mesa
2x Stomping Ground
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garden
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Stirring Wildwood
2x Forest
1x Plains
2x Blood Moon
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Grim Lavamancer
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Stony Silence
2x Fulminator Mage
Can't wait to do things like BBE cascade into Geist of Saint Traft / Knight of the Reliquary / Domri Rade / Renegade Rallier and lots of other fun stuff.
Can't wait to get brewing in the new format.
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Qasali Pridemage
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Bloodbraid Elf
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Helix
4x Tribal Flames
1x Dromoka's Command
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Bant Charm
This is where I am going to start brewing for Tribal/Domain.
Will also want to try a split between Rhino and BBE.
RBGJundRBG
UBRGrixis ControlUBR
Sorry if this kind of interrupts the BBE party but what is the deal with this list?
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
4 Spell Queller
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
1 Bant Charm
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Steam Vents
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Dispel
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stony Silence
1 Negate
2 Unified Will
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Izzet Staticaster
I've seen it floating around a bit and there have been some 5-0's in the past few months (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-wurg-44592#paper). I've been playing it for a bit and it seems pretty good but I can't find any discussion/primer past the one article that Gabriel Nassif wrote on CFB. It seems to run a lot of Zoo staples so maybe it's a zoo deck? Also I figure it can probably run BBE as well and maybe forgo Voice of Resurgence? Anyways, was wondering if anyone knew anything about this build and if it even could be considered Zoo. Thanks!
Realistically... jam her in every zoo list that existed prior.
I wouldnt go crazy yet yall. Bbelf also means jund got better, and we suck against that.
My inital thoughts:
This unban is ultimately good for us. Zoo has always preyed on control and tempo decks... Tempo has popped up and disappeared in modern often but control has never really been good. This will solve alot of their problems, so ironically, alot of ours. Ive been saying for years that Zoo's biggest weakness is control sucks.
All of our cards are all good vs Jace. Literally all of them.
The meat of it. Bloodbraid is good. Very good. But don't be fooled, she isn't absolutely disgusting in our deck. When she is hitting 3-2 drops and absurd swingy spells she is... which means shes better in jund. BB into bolt is aggressive for us, but BB into lillina is #broke. BBE is an aggressive card, who is best played late game when both players have run low on resources. Often we run low, play her and the Opponent can still 2 for 1 us fine because they haven't and she didnt do much at all. But she does help make closing out the game better for us.
My main point is... dont overestimate Bloodbraid Elf. Its a very good card, but isn't absolutely broken for us. Her role should (and always should be) to close the game. Those times she recovers our board after a wipe, or is the perfect blocker nabs us a perfect combo piece, are few and far between. But she does do that one job, closing the game, better than any card aside from maybe elspeth and siege rhino.
Now lets get to the good stuff about her since we can be a little realistic now we know her limitations. As Ive said, she closes the game on turn 4 and is broken on turn 3. You should be playing her in all versions of zoo now as a top ender... but not always a 4 of. In some of the lower curved lists that number should be 2. In some of the zoo lists that have only around 4-5 3 drops, she should be a 3 of. In any list running 4 Noble Hierarchs, she should be a 4 of, as turn 3ing her is absurd.
Zoo also can go back to some value creatures unless you are balls to the walls blitz. Pridemage, Thalia, voice, ooze all get better because of her. As do all sideboard cards. She increases the chance you will hit them. So Id change our sides to be more narrow but powerful answers. Run stuff like blood moon over edge or ghost quarter. You have more "draw power" and more pressure now, you just need to patch bad match ups, not prep for overall weakness now that just attacking can win you the game.
Id also tend to add more burn when I have elf. Helix for example is great. Bloodbraid really removes the reactiveness zoo can sometimes pack. You arent going to be casting stuff that wont have a target. Which is why burn is preferred over path. You wont be running counter spells either if you were doing that, or even stuff like Boros charm. I have my doubts about renegade rallier as well. Main decks cards should have cards that are "always on" because thats the only way to really turn blood braid to max.
This card should be absolutely gone from our lists. At best, this card is worth 6 mana (2 3dudes) and at worst gives you 0 if you flop. Bloodbraid will always give you 4 worth of value (3/2 haste is worth 3 and cascade will always hit at least 1 mana) which is 4 more mana than company's worst case. Its best case is 6 (3 mana dude plus bloodbraid) so its the same.
The only place company is better is being better vs control (meh, were fine vs that, plus agrueable since bbe is 2 spells) board wipes/ removal, and finding silver bullets. But we arent a silver bullet deck. Sometimes we pack em, but we pack em fairly. So Company was always worse in our deck. BBE is better.
I'm not sure BBE replaces this in domain. Both cards do the same thing, and might be around the same level in power. BBelf might be slightly higher since it can hit flames. In domain sometimes you play discard and counters though, in which case Id play rhino over it. This is the only spot I cant for sure say Elf is better. I dunno. Up to the hive mind. My suggestion is to swap it and really be critical about its abilities.
Jund is going to be better now, so its useage and power level just went up, which is bad for us. Keep that in mind.
So blitz zoo, bigger zoo, 4-5 color zoo or small zoo? My bet is on bigger zoo. Blitz likes the speed, but 4 mana is a tall ask. I'm sure they adopt the card as a 2 of for games that go longer, but I wouldnt call that a huge upgrade. 4-5 color zoo, the issue has been mana as always. Its painful. this makes it better, forsure, but its not like deathrite shaman got unbanned, the card that WOULD fix their problems. As Ive said, rhino is comparable... so I think the deck has more options and power now, but not fixing the main issue.
Small zoo sucks. Its uninteractive, 2/3s for 1 mana are terrible since gurmag angler. Bbelfing into a kird ape feels bad. No.
Bigger zoo checks all the ways to make an aggressive bbelf at peak opimization. Mana dorks to turn 3 it, more 3 and 2 drops to make better value out of it, reliably hit it turn 4. I actually would cut 5 drops out of the deck for better 3 drops now because bbelf into a 3 drop (or burn) is much stronger and faster and impact the game.
heres a short list of cards that all got better with BBElf
Doesnt work anymore. Sorry you guys can't live the dream like the old days.
So I'm not sure if this makes zoo better than humans. I've been out of the loop for a while but came back on pro tour to watch it... And humans kinda acts like a tribal version small zoo. Its a weird blend of hatebears and small zoo. Basically everything in the deck interacts with the opponent, or beats down, and it does that job really well. Honestly... if they wanted too they could run elf. It worries me a bit, because if humans does what zoo does but better, you get into an out classed situation, which isnt good.
Overall... Look, BBELF helps zoo compete. We can actually abuse it. We dont use it like jund does, we use it much more aggressively. But I'm not sure this is the card to save the zoo decks. I'm still full on about how zoo needs another 1 3/3. Right now, you can go faster and lose the long game, or go slower and lose the early game. A 3/3 at 1 lets us win the short game and still compete into the long game. BBElf in my opinion certainly raises the power level of zoo, but doesn't fix the core issue as to why we arent top tier.
Zoo has stark differences and MUs pros and cons.
Humans is, and probably never will be, robust against removal spells -- whereas Zoo is a different story and can often shrug them off.
Tron and storm, however, are very good MUs for Humans.
In this sense, open fields like Opens, GPs, and PTs are pretty great for Humans -- disrupt the players who think everyone won't interact with them.
Present a fast clock and rip apart their hand -- a great plan against decks that lack redundancy.
However, against other midrange decks, I feel that zoo can easily go toe-to-toe and bash through the board stall -- where as Humans needs to draw all their damn Mantis Riders.
Anyway, we'll see how the meta changes. If it shifts away from Tron, I think we'll be sitting pretty -- especially with the power level that UW control decks have gotten in recent months. In my moderate amount of testing we're favored against the decks trying to snag Tron and Storm -- RB Hollow One, Humans, Burn, Jeskai, and Jund/4color DS.
I think TBR would be better than Tribal Flames in that list. It's harkening back to the first DS lists to make it big.
With 2 k command I'd feel ok exploring alternatives to qasali. Lotus cobra comes to mind. Bringing in 2 cobras makes the one of bird unnecessary and I will swap it with a lavaman.
Lots of tinkering going on but I am excited to see how it goes. I think overall this version is less powerful than before but it could be worth giving up some raw power to be immune to blood moons thanks to cobras and bbe.
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Arid Mesa
1x Blood Crypt
1x Forest
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Marsh Flats
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Geist of Saint Traft
2x Bloodbraid Elf
2x Siege Rhino
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Grim Lavamancer
2x Lotus Cobra
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Path to Exile
2x Kolaghan's Command
Sorcery (4)
4x Tribal Flames
Tribal Zoo video series