Finally got my account back up and running again after the twitch merger fiasco.
Been off zoo for a bit playing 5C humans but recently I've been enjoying a burnwillows-kavu predator zoo build. It's a pile that I'm probably trying to do too much with but it's been a blast to play. There's just something about wiping a board with fiery justice and swinging in with 7/7 or 8/8 trampling bears that speaks to my soul.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
A continuation of the Hazoret list I was working on.
I played a fun-of Rhonas last week and was way more impressed. It also lets Domri kill just about everything.
27 mana sources is about right.
I don't know if I like Elspeth here. Maybe another 3 drop would be preferred.
Interesting list! I just have a couple thoughts come to mind:
If you're playing Rhonas, I'm pretty sure you want the full set of 4 power guys, specifically smiter.
If you're playing Rhonas, I'm pretty sure you want 4 company instead of Domri
I think Arlinn Kord is better than Surrak, no?
I really like elspeth/rhonas, just pumping dudes out.
The interaction between Domri and Rhonas wins attrition matchup. Like actually one of the best reasons to play the deck.
4/4s are just bad right now. Too many Anglers, Tasigurs, Smashers, etc.
Ghorclans let you hard cast a 4/x while being a combat trick -- So There's a reasonable amount of play there.
I've been really impressed with surrak against our specifically bad matchup. Mainly tron and scapeshift. Also reasonable against storm since an ideal kill is turn 4.
Not playing Coco might be wrong, and I'm biased since I don't like the card, but it's problematic because of It's clock.
I've found this list to be consistently faster than coco, if a little less robust against spot removal decks.
This list makes me sooooooooo happy. Not sure it could win vs tier one decks consistently or anything but man does it look like fun. I might sleeve something close to this up and bring it to my LGS next week. Changes I'd make are adding eldritch evolution, Eidolon of rhetoric and maybe sigarda host of herons to the board-- and I'd think about squeezing in GoST and potentially Reflector Mage in place of some removal and also think about some sort of CA creature or walker (Tracker, courser, etc.) but I find it really interesting that he/she traded company for interaction--- it makes me wonder if thats better for midrange right now, though I'm a diehard company player since the card came out.
I think that's Gabriel nassif. Maybe the gameplay's in his stream archives.
If you're looking at a geist zoo build, Reid duke has played a version at GP level back in 2015 I think. There's also a queller and Geist coco build that placed top 32 in a GP last year.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
admirals orders is another weirdly aggressive counterspell we "could" add to our tool box. Bad at preventing combos, good at stopping combat, post removal.
We're low enough to the ground that Blood Sun doesn't really do anything. If Tron wants to turn 3 Blood Sun us then have at it. They didn't impact the board for another (presuming they didnt turns 1 and 2) turn.
A lot of matchups feel very winnable and even positive. GDS feels very positive (a good sign) and this deck plows through Jeskai despite dropping the CoCos.
Because we dropped the CoCos, we can actually spells that beat affinity. One of the problems with CoCo is that, on top of play 3-4 four mana instants, you had to play a mass of creatures to hit -- all of which were average to bad against affinity. I was finding that I could beat avg to bad affinity players but as soon as I played against someone who had significant reps, they were almost impossible to beat -- they had a multitude of lines while you're sitting tight trying to line up your Pridemage "just right". With this list, you can play 11 removal spells! Maybe excessive vs. Affinity but it's really the best way to combat the menace. On top of that, 6 burn spells is fine vs. Scapeshift or other combo decks -- sending stuff to the dome can be underrated.
Additionally, while being a little less robust against removal spells, this deck is faster than CoCo. It just is. It's not trying to play a million 3 drops that clunk up your hand when you're behind on board. You play quickly and your 4 drops have haste. Your CA doubles as removal to pick off pesky Steves who are functional fogs. Also -- Ghor-Clan Rampager.
The deck is a little slanted post-board to handle affinity and burn because of the locals. Scapeshift and Tron are never great but, given the speed of the list and Blood Moons, are doable. Additionally, I think this list is better against traditional tron and scapeshift than Naya CoCo. Naya CoCo was and is so good against ETron that I'm hesitant to make that claim there. If you really need some oomph, play a Thrun, the Last Troll -- to show the kids who just bought into Jeskai what is really up (it also turns on your Rhonas!).
Have you considered something like eldritch evolution in this list? Seems like even with three hate pieces for storm it wouldn't hurt to a have a way to find therm, and also i could see evolution finishing the game out with surrak occasionally. Really cool list man, i may try it out myself!
So long time fan of the deck here. I've been thinking of switching off of BW Tokens and Stompy to play the deck and I was wondering if cards like Woolly Thoctar or Savage Knuckleblade were worth a damn in the deck. I saw that they were in the primer and got a little excited because I played the mess out of them when they were standard legal and have since become some of my favorite cards.
So long time fan of the deck here. I've been thinking of switching off of BW Tokens and Stompy to play the deck and I was wondering if cards like Woolly Thoctar or Savage Knuckleblade were worth a damn in the deck. I saw that they were in the primer and got a little excited because I played the mess out of them when they were standard legal and have since become some of my favorite cards.
Not really. Woolly Thoctar is sometimes relevant when Tasigur and friends are relevant but generally not worth it.
That being said, it's modern and you can do whatever the hell you want. Just don't hold your breath and expect to be rolling the entire room with a playset of Savage Knuckleblade (though, I digress, sometimes modern FNM can get really weird).
Been out of the game for a while but back when I was playing I had a lot of fun playing little zoo with e1, vexing devil, goyfs, guides, BTE, nacatls, kird apes. I loved that I could get e1 to a 4/4 so easily with vexing devils, and sometimes to a 5/5 with goyf. I also liked that I had some mid-game relevance with goyfs if they survived the initial onslaught. I noticed people were playing herbalists and renegades nowadays. I assume this probably speeds up your goldfish a bit (half a turn on avg? idk) since you can crap out more little dudes faster then pump with atk com for the win. Is the version that I mentioned still viable? Or do you just have to be faster now? Thoughts on ways to get a bit more out of goyf up in this shell (sorceries, enchantments, planeswalkers - devastating summons, seal of fire/tarfire/eidolon, domri, etc)?
Also, what is the consensus on Chained to the Rocks? I was using ghor-clan to power through Tasigurs and Gurmags but have been getting road blocked by 8/8 Death Shadows as of late. Perhaps I just need to hold my wad until I can kill them in one big burst so as to avoid pumping potential DS? Anyway, a PtE style effect seems useful in the SB but I just hate the idea of giving opp free lands as I find myself winning often times just on bottle necking their mana and not giving them a chance to cast multiple kill spells in a turn. Ramping them by 1 could mean an extra 1cmc kill spell on your dude allowing them time to stabilize and lock up the game.
Is Magus of the Moon useful at all? I'd probably bring it in against any non-red 3+color deck as well as Tron/Eldrazi to stem the bleeding long enough to assemble a board wide enough to alpha strike through a TKS/etc. I prefer the idea of my SB consisting of mainly creatures so as to benefit from atk com, ghor-clan, domri, whacker +1s, and so forth.
I draw my removal spells and he dies. Match maybe lasted 10 minutes.
2-1 Grixis Death Shadow
He has non-functional draws the games I win.
1-2 Grixis Death Shadow
I get game two despite him drawing multiple F. Pushes and all of his Snapcaster Mages. I power through it and eventually land a goyf.
Game 3, he draws 4 fatal pushes and 3 snaps. Aight.
2-0 Bant Company
I win the dice roll and stick a Knight on t2. GG.
He mulls to 5 game 2 and floods. He eventually resolves a Settle the Wreckage for an absolute blowout, but he isn't able to recover from my manlands and Rhonas beats.
2-0 5 color humans
I draw removal spells game one and he fails to do combat math well. I get him on a random crackback where he didn't count quite enough.
Game 2 he resolves a t2 Mantis Rider, t3 Mantis Rider. I path the 1st when he swings on his turn 3. I untap and see that he has one card in hand. I'm at 8. I figure it only kills me if it's a Phantasmal Image. So I bolt before he untaps. Turns out, it was a Phantasmal Image.
Two turns later, and I've developed my board. He draws his 3rd Mantis Rider. Plays it, vials in Image, and tries to lethal me. I left knight back because attacking wasn't lethal. I float a white and fetch a Horizon Canopy. Crack it. Draw a Dromoka's Command -- which with a Knight in play and a mode that can target, I pop his Image and fight the Rider. He draws another Image to stabilize by copying my goyf and uses a Mage to bounce my knight. Turns out you can target Image with Kessig, which I do. He dies.
ID into top 8.
Top 8 against UW.
1-2.
I keep a loose hand game one, Bolt, Bolt, Helix, Nacatl, lands. I draw more lands and die.
Game 2, I mull to six and keep a weak 6. I stick a goyf and ride it for a bit. Eventually, I get it to be larger, force him to rev in response to a lethal kessig and can sneak a Gaddock Teeg under him. I'm able to sneak a bunch of stuff after Teeg since I'm safe from Verdict.
Game 3, he draws all 4 paths and multiple snaps. The last two paths were top decked -- him cardless, while I was presenting lethal. Lame.
Anyway, deck was fine. I enjoyed it. The room was very midrange heavy. No storm decks, 1 valakut, no other fast combo.
I've been away from Zoo for quite a while. What's the current consensus on the best build for Domain Zoo?
There aren't enough players talking about the deck to reach a consensus on the best build. For what it's worth I'll post my list. Now I ain't no big city mtg pro, just a humble fnm regular who enjoys siege rhino a bit too much. Having said that, this list has done me justice for years, requiring only slight sideboard tweaks as the meta evolved. I have been playing the same 60 since the twin era:
I noticed people were playing herbalists and renegades nowadays. I assume this probably speeds up your goldfish a bit (half a turn on avg? idk) since you can crap out more little dudes faster then pump with atk com for the win.
This version plays Hidden Herbalists, Burning-Tree Emissary, and Reckless Bushwhacker as a sort of combo. If you play a turn 1 dude, then turn 2 HH/BTE and Bushwacker, you can swing for 11-12 dmg. Follow up with burn on turns 3-4 to end the game.
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2 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
Land (21)
2 Arid Mesa
2 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
Planeswalker (4)
3 Domri Rade
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Hazoret the Fervent
1x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Grim Lavamancer
2x Dromoka's Command
2x Stony Silence
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Gaddock Teeg
3x Blood Moon
2x Eidolon of the Rhetoric
1x Declaration in Stone
A continuation of the Hazoret list I was working on.
I played a fun-of Rhonas last week and was way more impressed. It also lets Domri kill just about everything.
27 mana sources is about right.
I don't know if I like Elspeth here. Maybe another 3 drop would be preferred.
Been off zoo for a bit playing 5C humans but recently I've been enjoying a burnwillows-kavu predator zoo build. It's a pile that I'm probably trying to do too much with but it's been a blast to play. There's just something about wiping a board with fiery justice and swinging in with 7/7 or 8/8 trampling bears that speaks to my soul.
1 birds of paradise
4 tarmogoyf
4 kavu predator
3 voice of resurgence
1 qasali pridemage
2 scavenging ooze
4 knight of the reliquary
3 renegade rallier
3 path to exile
3 lightning bolt
3 collected company
2 seal of fire
1 fiery justice
4 grove of the burnwillows
2 temple garden
1 stomping ground
1 sacred foundry
2 forest
1 plains
1 horizon canopy
1 kessig wolf run
1 ghost quarter
4 windswept heath
4 wooded foothills
2 fiery justice
1 chandra, torch of defiance
1 chandra, pyromaster
1 gideon, ally of zendikar
1 seal of primordium
2 tormod's crypt
1 ratchet bomb
1 ethersworn canonist
1 eidolon of rhetoric
1 stony silence
1 kor firewalker
Interesting list! I just have a couple thoughts come to mind:
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The interaction between Domri and Rhonas wins attrition matchup. Like actually one of the best reasons to play the deck.
4/4s are just bad right now. Too many Anglers, Tasigurs, Smashers, etc.
Ghorclans let you hard cast a 4/x while being a combat trick -- So There's a reasonable amount of play there.
I've been really impressed with surrak against our specifically bad matchup. Mainly tron and scapeshift. Also reasonable against storm since an ideal kill is turn 4.
Not playing Coco might be wrong, and I'm biased since I don't like the card, but it's problematic because of It's clock.
I've found this list to be consistently faster than coco, if a little less robust against spot removal decks.
This list makes me sooooooooo happy. Not sure it could win vs tier one decks consistently or anything but man does it look like fun. I might sleeve something close to this up and bring it to my LGS next week. Changes I'd make are adding eldritch evolution, Eidolon of rhetoric and maybe sigarda host of herons to the board-- and I'd think about squeezing in GoST and potentially Reflector Mage in place of some removal and also think about some sort of CA creature or walker (Tracker, courser, etc.) but I find it really interesting that he/she traded company for interaction--- it makes me wonder if thats better for midrange right now, though I'm a diehard company player since the card came out.
If you're looking at a geist zoo build, Reid duke has played a version at GP level back in 2015 I think. There's also a queller and Geist coco build that placed top 32 in a GP last year.
Edit: I went to look for it.
VOD is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/213547507 , starts around the 46 minute mark.
Reid Duke's article: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/bant-zoo-primer/
The Geist & Queller list, i posted about it when it happened
Whelp, there goes our fetches. It's been nice knowing you. I think I'll switch back to hate bears now.
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
Land
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Arid Mesa
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
Planeswalker
2 Domri Rade
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Blood Moon
2 Stony Silence
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Declaration in Stone
A lot of matchups feel very winnable and even positive. GDS feels very positive (a good sign) and this deck plows through Jeskai despite dropping the CoCos.
Because we dropped the CoCos, we can actually spells that beat affinity. One of the problems with CoCo is that, on top of play 3-4 four mana instants, you had to play a mass of creatures to hit -- all of which were average to bad against affinity. I was finding that I could beat avg to bad affinity players but as soon as I played against someone who had significant reps, they were almost impossible to beat -- they had a multitude of lines while you're sitting tight trying to line up your Pridemage "just right". With this list, you can play 11 removal spells! Maybe excessive vs. Affinity but it's really the best way to combat the menace. On top of that, 6 burn spells is fine vs. Scapeshift or other combo decks -- sending stuff to the dome can be underrated.
Additionally, while being a little less robust against removal spells, this deck is faster than CoCo. It just is. It's not trying to play a million 3 drops that clunk up your hand when you're behind on board. You play quickly and your 4 drops have haste. Your CA doubles as removal to pick off pesky Steves who are functional fogs. Also -- Ghor-Clan Rampager.
The deck is a little slanted post-board to handle affinity and burn because of the locals. Scapeshift and Tron are never great but, given the speed of the list and Blood Moons, are doable. Additionally, I think this list is better against traditional tron and scapeshift than Naya CoCo. Naya CoCo was and is so good against ETron that I'm hesitant to make that claim there. If you really need some oomph, play a Thrun, the Last Troll -- to show the kids who just bought into Jeskai what is really up (it also turns on your Rhonas!).
WBTokensWB
Not really. Woolly Thoctar is sometimes relevant when Tasigur and friends are relevant but generally not worth it.
Often, zoo decks will dip into blue for spells and creatures. Savage Knuckleblade usually isn't included. Spell Queller, Geist of Saint Traft, Negate variants, and Stubborn Denial being the typical choices.
That being said, it's modern and you can do whatever the hell you want. Just don't hold your breath and expect to be rolling the entire room with a playset of Savage Knuckleblade (though, I digress, sometimes modern FNM can get really weird).
I can think of a few applications for this out of the SB for zoo.
Probably not good enough to MD.
Been out of the game for a while but back when I was playing I had a lot of fun playing little zoo with e1, vexing devil, goyfs, guides, BTE, nacatls, kird apes. I loved that I could get e1 to a 4/4 so easily with vexing devils, and sometimes to a 5/5 with goyf. I also liked that I had some mid-game relevance with goyfs if they survived the initial onslaught. I noticed people were playing herbalists and renegades nowadays. I assume this probably speeds up your goldfish a bit (half a turn on avg? idk) since you can crap out more little dudes faster then pump with atk com for the win. Is the version that I mentioned still viable? Or do you just have to be faster now? Thoughts on ways to get a bit more out of goyf up in this shell (sorceries, enchantments, planeswalkers - devastating summons, seal of fire/tarfire/eidolon, domri, etc)?
Also, what is the consensus on Chained to the Rocks? I was using ghor-clan to power through Tasigurs and Gurmags but have been getting road blocked by 8/8 Death Shadows as of late. Perhaps I just need to hold my wad until I can kill them in one big burst so as to avoid pumping potential DS? Anyway, a PtE style effect seems useful in the SB but I just hate the idea of giving opp free lands as I find myself winning often times just on bottle necking their mana and not giving them a chance to cast multiple kill spells in a turn. Ramping them by 1 could mean an extra 1cmc kill spell on your dude allowing them time to stabilize and lock up the game.
Is Magus of the Moon useful at all? I'd probably bring it in against any non-red 3+color deck as well as Tron/Eldrazi to stem the bleeding long enough to assemble a board wide enough to alpha strike through a TKS/etc. I prefer the idea of my SB consisting of mainly creatures so as to benefit from atk com, ghor-clan, domri, whacker +1s, and so forth.
RBGJundRBG
UBRGrixis ControlUBR
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Surrak, the Hunt Caller
2 Rhonas the Indomitable
Land
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Arid Mesa
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Temple Garden
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
Planeswalker
2 Domri Rade
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Blood Moon
1 Stony Silence
1 Blessed Alliance
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Grim Lavamancer
Played this to a Top 8 in a 40 man win-a-case.
2-0 Counters Coco
I draw my removal spells and he dies. Match maybe lasted 10 minutes.
2-1 Grixis Death Shadow
He has non-functional draws the games I win.
1-2 Grixis Death Shadow
I get game two despite him drawing multiple F. Pushes and all of his Snapcaster Mages. I power through it and eventually land a goyf.
Game 3, he draws 4 fatal pushes and 3 snaps. Aight.
2-0 Bant Company
I win the dice roll and stick a Knight on t2. GG.
He mulls to 5 game 2 and floods. He eventually resolves a Settle the Wreckage for an absolute blowout, but he isn't able to recover from my manlands and Rhonas beats.
2-0 5 color humans
I draw removal spells game one and he fails to do combat math well. I get him on a random crackback where he didn't count quite enough.
Game 2 he resolves a t2 Mantis Rider, t3 Mantis Rider. I path the 1st when he swings on his turn 3. I untap and see that he has one card in hand. I'm at 8. I figure it only kills me if it's a Phantasmal Image. So I bolt before he untaps. Turns out, it was a Phantasmal Image.
Two turns later, and I've developed my board. He draws his 3rd Mantis Rider. Plays it, vials in Image, and tries to lethal me. I left knight back because attacking wasn't lethal. I float a white and fetch a Horizon Canopy. Crack it. Draw a Dromoka's Command -- which with a Knight in play and a mode that can target, I pop his Image and fight the Rider. He draws another Image to stabilize by copying my goyf and uses a Mage to bounce my knight. Turns out you can target Image with Kessig, which I do. He dies.
ID into top 8.
Top 8 against UW.
1-2.
I keep a loose hand game one, Bolt, Bolt, Helix, Nacatl, lands. I draw more lands and die.
Game 2, I mull to six and keep a weak 6. I stick a goyf and ride it for a bit. Eventually, I get it to be larger, force him to rev in response to a lethal kessig and can sneak a Gaddock Teeg under him. I'm able to sneak a bunch of stuff after Teeg since I'm safe from Verdict.
Game 3, he draws all 4 paths and multiple snaps. The last two paths were top decked -- him cardless, while I was presenting lethal. Lame.
Anyway, deck was fine. I enjoyed it. The room was very midrange heavy. No storm decks, 1 valakut, no other fast combo.
There aren't enough players talking about the deck to reach a consensus on the best build. For what it's worth I'll post my list. Now I ain't no big city mtg pro, just a humble fnm regular who enjoys siege rhino a bit too much. Having said that, this list has done me justice for years, requiring only slight sideboard tweaks as the meta evolved. I have been playing the same 60 since the twin era:
4x Arid Mesa
1x Blood Crypt
1x Forest
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Marsh Flats
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Wild Nacatl
2x Qasali Pridemage
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Siege Rhino
Sorcery (4)
4x Tribal Flames
Instant (10)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
2x Lightning Helix
2x Destructive Revelry
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Negate
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Stony Silence
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3x Leyline of Sanctity
Tribal Zoo video series
This version plays Hidden Herbalists, Burning-Tree Emissary, and Reckless Bushwhacker as a sort of combo. If you play a turn 1 dude, then turn 2 HH/BTE and Bushwacker, you can swing for 11-12 dmg. Follow up with burn on turns 3-4 to end the game.