Hi. This is a question to those using the 19 land bushwacker versions. Currently building this deck.. and in my area, Merfolk decks have a considerable presence. Are we favored against that deck or is the match-up 50/50 at best? Any tips on how to beat the fish using a bushwacker zoo list?
You should be faster than Fish, so just be aggressive. Your creatures are bigger than theirs until they get lords out, too, so you'll either run over their creatures and destroy their board or be hitting them for a ton.
Hi. This is a question to those using the 19 land bushwacker versions. Currently building this deck.. and in my area, Merfolk decks have a considerable presence. Are we favored against that deck or is the match-up 50/50 at best? Any tips on how to beat the fish using a bushwacker zoo list?
You should be faster than Fish, so just be aggressive. Your creatures are bigger than theirs until they get lords out, too, so you'll either run over their creatures and destroy their board or be hitting them for a ton.
This is 100% correct as long as they don't have an early spreading seas, which sometimes will win them the game on the spot. With this in mind, make plays that put more threats on the battlefield instead of saving for a more explosive bushwhacker turn. And pay attention to your mana. E.g. if you have two red/X shocks, play your non-red spells first to the extent you can so that you can still cast spells after a Spreading Seas. Also beware of Chalice - some lists will have it and will definitely board it in against you. Matchup feels 50/50 to me.
Hi. This is a question to those using the 19 land bushwacker versions. Currently building this deck.. and in my area, Merfolk decks have a considerable presence. Are we favored against that deck or is the match-up 50/50 at best? Any tips on how to beat the fish using a bushwacker zoo list?
You should be faster than Fish, so just be aggressive. Your creatures are bigger than theirs until they get lords out, too, so you'll either run over their creatures and destroy their board or be hitting them for a ton.
This is 100% correct as long as they don't have an early spreading seas, which sometimes will win them the game on the spot. With this in mind, make plays that put more threats on the battlefield instead of saving for a more explosive bushwhacker turn. And pay attention to your mana. E.g. if you have two red/X shocks, play your non-red spells first to the extent you can so that you can still cast spells after a Spreading Seas. Also beware of Chalice - some lists will have it and will definitely board it in against you. Matchup feels 50/50 to me.
Can confirm. Little zoo match up 5050. Big zoo with removal 65 35 favoed
Ok, thanks for the advice everyone.
There are two Merfolk players that I playtest with regularly.. one is mono blue and has Kira in the sideboard, the other one has a splash white with pte. In testings I've found it harder to go against the mono blue one, because having a glass spinner out gives my removal a hard time. Just one more question, is it right to board in 2 Grim Lavamancer? Have 2 lavamancers in the sideboard just for that deck, because I play with them often.
depending on if you go small or big, your out to kira for small is race and ghoring when vial is on 3, not burning dudes anymore unless you are sure no kira will happen. For big, bonfire of the damned or explosives deal with kira.
4-0 yesterday playing with the fully stock bushwacker list with narnams and herbalists. I am running 2 kari zev and am liking it
I'm playing an 8-fetch Bushwhacker version and I've been mulling about which and how many of the Revolt cards to incorporate. I'm intrigued by Kari Zev, since she's also a revolt trigger for the second main.
I've even toyed with the idea of dropping the BTE + Bushwhacker combo entirely in favor of HH + Strangleroot Geist, because being heavily invested in green makes it harder to make full use of the R from BTE (especially give we no longer want to run an 1G 2-drop).
However, I'm not sure how effective HH will be without having at least 10 fetches to fuel them, so I'm on the fence.
I think you definitely want a very large number of fetches in order to reliably hit Revolt on Hidden Herbalists.
1G 2-drops are just fine in this build. I'm happy to have a T2 of BTE-Flinthoof, especially after a 1-drop on T1, because I'm looking at 7 power on the board on T3 and I'm forcing my opponent to have multiple answers or get punched in the face for a boat load. I'm even happy to put down a Renegade off of BTE and lose the R, because that's still 6 power. The thing you really don't want are too many cards that can't be cast off for free mana, which means nothing that costs white and nothing that costs RR (no Goblin Bushwhacker).
Mull to 5 vs. Abzan and have him dead with SBD if he doesn't draw a 4th land for his Rhino. He does and I can't kill him on the crack back and only have one blocker ('cause I mulled to 5 and had no hand by turn 2). This is followed by a game 2 t2 Blood Moon. He natural draws his forest, singleton Hierarch, and singleton swamp and plays his spells while I flood out. I can understand fetching around Blood Moon but natural drawing? Jeez.
Cool.
Sultai draws 3 of his Fatal Pushes and multiple Snaps each game. I can beat, like, two or even three fatal pushes. Not 5 over 6 turns.
Compared to the builds that elconquistador and I have been advocating in this thread, he's more all in and significantly worse against goyf decks and snapcaster decks. He even admits that he can't beat Tarmogoyf at the end of his article. It can definitely be a good metagame call to build the deck this way, but probably not if Death's Shadow Jund picks up. The other big difference is 3 MD Rancor, which is something that our builds can certainly do. If I were still playing this deck, it's the next thing I would try. (I've moved on because the deck felt too inconsistent and in most metagames is just a worse version of Affinity)
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I was thinking, wouldn't death's shadow combo be good in the landfall variant? Run the battlerages and Shadows since you hurt yourself a lot with all the fetching anyways. It gives a little more reach and the battlerage gives more turn 3 win enabler.
With the format moving in the current direction of grindy decks + big mana decks, I've decided to splash in the Retreat to Coralhelm combo with the following list:
I'm still working on the board, but it's some configuration of Negate, Crumble to Dust, Planeswalkers, and some other spells. I'm really liking Blessed Alliance in the current metagame because you can make the Death Shadows players gain 4 life and kill their DS on the spot
You should be faster than Fish, so just be aggressive. Your creatures are bigger than theirs until they get lords out, too, so you'll either run over their creatures and destroy their board or be hitting them for a ton.
This is 100% correct as long as they don't have an early spreading seas, which sometimes will win them the game on the spot. With this in mind, make plays that put more threats on the battlefield instead of saving for a more explosive bushwhacker turn. And pay attention to your mana. E.g. if you have two red/X shocks, play your non-red spells first to the extent you can so that you can still cast spells after a Spreading Seas. Also beware of Chalice - some lists will have it and will definitely board it in against you. Matchup feels 50/50 to me.
Ok, thanks for the advice everyone.
There are two Merfolk players that I playtest with regularly.. one is mono blue and has Kira in the sideboard, the other one has a splash white with pte. In testings I've found it harder to go against the mono blue one, because having a glass spinner out gives my removal a hard time. Just one more question, is it right to board in 2 Grim Lavamancer? Have 2 lavamancers in the sideboard just for that deck, because I play with them often.
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I understand Greenwheel Liberator but I'm not sold on it. I would prefer Rancor instead (to get past all of those annoying Lingering Souls, etc)
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Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
I'm playing an 8-fetch Bushwhacker version and I've been mulling about which and how many of the Revolt cards to incorporate. I'm intrigued by Kari Zev, since she's also a revolt trigger for the second main.
I've even toyed with the idea of dropping the BTE + Bushwhacker combo entirely in favor of HH + Strangleroot Geist, because being heavily invested in green makes it harder to make full use of the R from BTE (especially give we no longer want to run an 1G 2-drop).
However, I'm not sure how effective HH will be without having at least 10 fetches to fuel them, so I'm on the fence.
1G 2-drops are just fine in this build. I'm happy to have a T2 of BTE-Flinthoof, especially after a 1-drop on T1, because I'm looking at 7 power on the board on T3 and I'm forcing my opponent to have multiple answers or get punched in the face for a boat load. I'm even happy to put down a Renegade off of BTE and lose the R, because that's still 6 power. The thing you really don't want are too many cards that can't be cast off for free mana, which means nothing that costs white and nothing that costs RR (no Goblin Bushwhacker).
2-0 Grixis Delver
2-1 Skred
0-2 Abzan
0-2 Sultai Delve
2-1 Titan Breach
Mow over the easy stuff.
Mull to 5 vs. Abzan and have him dead with SBD if he doesn't draw a 4th land for his Rhino. He does and I can't kill him on the crack back and only have one blocker ('cause I mulled to 5 and had no hand by turn 2). This is followed by a game 2 t2 Blood Moon. He natural draws his forest, singleton Hierarch, and singleton swamp and plays his spells while I flood out. I can understand fetching around Blood Moon but natural drawing? Jeez.
Cool.
Sultai draws 3 of his Fatal Pushes and multiple Snaps each game. I can beat, like, two or even three fatal pushes. Not 5 over 6 turns.
I Blood Moon Titan Breach games 2 and 3.
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hidden Herbalists
4 Kird Ape
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
2 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Vexing Devil
4 Wild Nacatl
Lands (17)
1 Forest
4 Arid Mesa
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Rancor
4 Atarka's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Strangleroot Geist
2 Tin Street Hooligan
2 Vexing Devil
2 Gut Shot
3 Path to Exile
Compared to the builds that elconquistador and I have been advocating in this thread, he's more all in and significantly worse against goyf decks and snapcaster decks. He even admits that he can't beat Tarmogoyf at the end of his article. It can definitely be a good metagame call to build the deck this way, but probably not if Death's Shadow Jund picks up. The other big difference is 3 MD Rancor, which is something that our builds can certainly do. If I were still playing this deck, it's the next thing I would try. (I've moved on because the deck felt too inconsistent and in most metagames is just a worse version of Affinity)
Indeed, does renegade rallied mean we can start playing lotus cobra again?
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Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
2 Retreat to Coralhelm
3 Collected Company
I'm still working on the board, but it's some configuration of Negate, Crumble to Dust, Planeswalkers, and some other spells. I'm really liking Blessed Alliance in the current metagame because you can make the Death Shadows players gain 4 life and kill their DS on the spot
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