Now, Eldritch Evolution, worth it? I can imagine saccing a dork to find a KOTR, or better, saccing a voice to get a token and search for WLL ( ) would be nice.
Your thoughts?
I don't like Evolution in Zoo, because it's card disadvantage; it just gives your opponent too many opportunities to blow you out. Let's look at the "ceiling and floor," a concept Patrick Chapin talked about in a recent podcast:
Ceiling: You Evolve your mana dork into a turn-2 Knight of the Reliquary. So what? This deck regularly plays one of its redundant 3-drop on turn 2 without saccing the mana dork in the process.
Ceiling: You Evolve your Voice into a 3-or-4 drop, leaving behind a token. This is probably the actual ceiling, as you actually get to cheat on mana a little, possibly getting your 4-drop down a bit earlier, and Voice mitigates the card disadvantage a little. Again, though, with a mana dork, big zoo decks can play their 4-drop on turn 3 anyways, without 2-for-1ing themselves.
Floor: You Evolve your mana dork into a turn-2 Knight of the Reliquary. Your opponent Paths your Knight. Or plays Liliana and now your knight doesn't have a mana dork to eat the -2 for her.
Bottom line: You want Evolution in a deck where the tutor effect is a big deal. Zoo decks tend to be very redundant, and thus don't need a tutor effect very badly; the fact that this particular tutor effect 2-for-1s you every time you cast it just seals the deal.
It's a Vanilla 5/5 that is able to put some work in Gruul Zoo Builds.
It evolves experiment one, can be dropped by a burning-tree emissary and is a good mid- and lategame-topdeck.
We drop our hand pretty quickly and should empty it around T3 - T4, so this enables the Fatty constantly.
It's a Vanilla 5/5 that is able to put some work in Gruul Zoo Builds.
It evolves experiment one, can be dropped by a burning-tree emissary and is a good mid- and lategame-topdeck.
We drop our hand pretty quickly and should empty it around T3 - T4, so this enables the Fatty constantly.
I don't even know how to evaluate Lupine Prototype. I mean it's a vanilla 5/5 I guess it grows Goyf when it dies? The not being able to do anything until a player is empty handed is a huge buzz kill.
It would also lead to situations where you have Path in hand and no creature on the other side of the battlefield.
Or when you know you opponent have a counterspell and you either cast you stuff to be countered in your turn or you don't attack with your creature.
I am moving myself from Kiki Chord for Zoo , do you guys have tested Nahiri, the Harbinger in Zoo?
Yes did well with it. But it doesn't progress the deck much. You either have the power on board and are winning or your winning with nahiri for emak. There was never once in a match that I would of lost if nahiri dint save me. It does close midrange decks quicker. if they don't see dreadbore, maelstrom, or lately heroes downfall.
M1: RG Tron (2-0)
M2: Abzan Company (2-0)
M3: RG Tron (2-0)
M4: Living End (0-2)
After going 3-0 being paired with 3 ~bad matches and playing another one in the fourth round, 3-1 seemed like I was in an insane day lol.
Deck felt great again and Domri always does good work. Probably running the same list tomorrow.
To get more value I have now cut Nacatl and play 2 WLL. I also play 2 Domri, 4 Bolt, 4 Path and 4 CoCo. Playtesting tomorrow, then Sunday qualifier time.
To get more value I have now cut Nacatl and play 2 WLL. I also play 2 Domri, 4 Bolt, 4 Path and 4 CoCo. Playtesting tomorrow, then Sunday qualifier time.
How many creatures you have on your list? 4 Company is too much for the deck, even more if you are playing 2 Domri along them. And WLL isn't a hit with it, also, which lower your odds of a good CC.
To play ~3 CC, you would want something like 27 creatures on your deck. If you don't have that, it won't be a good card.
and what you think about this? i am playing zoo all my life, now dont know if build this or kiki chord:S
Creatures
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
4 Wild Nacatl
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
with 3 CoCo the lowest creature count you can run and expect to hit consistently is 25. You only have 23. Just play more planeswalkers like Elspeth and Chandra instead since you're not using CoCo efficiently in this build.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
So you suggest to go with 2 CoCo and add Elspeth and another PW. Which would you take as I dont have Chandra. I do have Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, or 2 Arlinn Kord. And that is next to the 2 Domri already in there?
I'm saying either reduce number of CoCo for more creatures, or cut CoCo completely and play more planeswalkers instead. I think Chandra and Elspeth are the best 2, followed by Domri and Gideon/Arlinn.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
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4 Jund
3 Burn
3 Affinity
3 Bant Eldrazi
2 Grixis Control
2 RG Tron
2 Small Zoo
2 Abzan Coco
2 Elves
2 Mardu Midrange
I don't like Evolution in Zoo, because it's card disadvantage; it just gives your opponent too many opportunities to blow you out. Let's look at the "ceiling and floor," a concept Patrick Chapin talked about in a recent podcast:
Ceiling: You Evolve your mana dork into a turn-2 Knight of the Reliquary. So what? This deck regularly plays one of its redundant 3-drop on turn 2 without saccing the mana dork in the process.
Ceiling: You Evolve your Voice into a 3-or-4 drop, leaving behind a token. This is probably the actual ceiling, as you actually get to cheat on mana a little, possibly getting your 4-drop down a bit earlier, and Voice mitigates the card disadvantage a little. Again, though, with a mana dork, big zoo decks can play their 4-drop on turn 3 anyways, without 2-for-1ing themselves.
Floor: You Evolve your mana dork into a turn-2 Knight of the Reliquary. Your opponent Paths your Knight. Or plays Liliana and now your knight doesn't have a mana dork to eat the -2 for her.
Bottom line: You want Evolution in a deck where the tutor effect is a big deal. Zoo decks tend to be very redundant, and thus don't need a tutor effect very badly; the fact that this particular tutor effect 2-for-1s you every time you cast it just seals the deal.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator
It's a Vanilla 5/5 that is able to put some work in Gruul Zoo Builds.
It evolves experiment one, can be dropped by a burning-tree emissary and is a good mid- and lategame-topdeck.
We drop our hand pretty quickly and should empty it around T3 - T4, so this enables the Fatty constantly.
Green @ it's best
I don't even know how to evaluate Lupine Prototype. I mean it's a vanilla 5/5 I guess it grows Goyf when it dies? The not being able to do anything until a player is empty handed is a huge buzz kill.
Or when you know you opponent have a counterspell and you either cast you stuff to be countered in your turn or you don't attack with your creature.
I don't like this card at all.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
I am moving myself from Kiki Chord for Zoo , do you guys have tested Nahiri, the Harbinger in Zoo?
Yes did well with it. But it doesn't progress the deck much. You either have the power on board and are winning or your winning with nahiri for emak. There was never once in a match that I would of lost if nahiri dint save me. It does close midrange decks quicker. if they don't see dreadbore, maelstrom, or lately heroes downfall.
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Domri Rade
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
1 Dromoka's Command
M1: RG Tron (2-0)
M2: Abzan Company (2-0)
M3: RG Tron (2-0)
M4: Living End (0-2)
After going 3-0 being paired with 3 ~bad matches and playing another one in the fourth round, 3-1 seemed like I was in an insane day lol.
Deck felt great again and Domri always does good work. Probably running the same list tomorrow.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
How many creatures you have on your list? 4 Company is too much for the deck, even more if you are playing 2 Domri along them. And WLL isn't a hit with it, also, which lower your odds of a good CC.
To play ~3 CC, you would want something like 27 creatures on your deck. If you don't have that, it won't be a good card.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
2-3 oath at max. 4 is a little meh.. Add the 4th smiter
I now play 25 creatures. r497 I see what you mean with hitting CoCo targets.
This is my current setup but I'm not confident yet.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
PW - 2
2 Domri Rade
Lands - 21
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Arid Mesa
3 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Might cut 1 but not 2, seems to be a bit much. What is 'the Planeswalkers route'?