I've been working on making the switch to Naya Company and after some playtesting I took the deck to FNM. I finished 3-2 losing to Burn (misplay on my side), and Control (Supreme Verdict was the end for me...) and beating Burn twice and Jund once.
After some tinkering I'm wondering if the deck can handle two Ghost Quarters in the deck to help with land destruction. This is my idea going forward. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
I'm worried I'll end up shooting my eye out with all the fetches for shocks by taking out some of the basics but I feel there's room to advance this deck to utilize Knight of the Reliquary to it's full potential.
Because hes not an animal. This is zoo, not soldiers. Come on!
I joke. Because its better value to be able to make dudes indestructable in responce to a wipe. Grant it, id rather coco after a wipe than in reaponce.
I dont like ghost quarter in zoo. Were pretty greedy with mana costs. We want alot of green and white and at least 1 red. Probably better to run fulminators or blood moon effects.
In legacy your run wastelands. But its not
The reason why youd run worse lands like tech edge or quarter. In legacy you use wasteland as a way to stay in early game longer. As in, if you have 2 lands and i have two lands, its turn 2 where my deck is better than yours. If my thrid land is wasteland, and i kill your thrid land its still "turn 2"
Weird logic, but do you follow? When there is less lands on the field, we are better.
You cant do that in modern. Knight into quaurter turn 4 against tron and bloom is often too late.
So, I have scrapped my Landfall/Scapeshift Zoo game as it felt like it wanted to do one or the other and never both at the same time. I have been trying to find a variant of Zoo that fits my play-style and think I have landed on what Zoo I do best and that Voodoo is 4c Collected. I played a slightly neutered ver. this weekend at a PPTQ and was 3-1 till I hit the a 2 game slide, but really liked the way the deck performed and saw the potential with what I did have.
Here is what I played.
Round 1 Lantern Lock deck, I won 2-1, first game he got the lock on quick 2nd game 2 got the beats fast with T2 Geist into T3 Loxodon, game 3 T2 Stony sealed it.
Round 2 Bots lost 0-2, just way too fast and drew not enough removal, looking to move to mass artifact hate i.e. Hurkyl's Recall.
Round 3 Jund won 2-0, was able to out gas him on the threat vs. removal game CoCo sealed game 1, game 2 I get the T3 Geist and no answer 2 turns later.
Round 4 Infect won 2-1, Game 1I get beats early and keep him off one shoting me, game 2 I roll too slow and he gets in 3 good pokes, game 3 I have all the needed removal and a timely Negate didn't hurt.
Round 5 Titan Bloom lost 2-1, game 1 she goes off no answer, game 2 we play a fair game and Geist w/ Kessig seal it fast, game 3 um ya I have removal's then Thragtusk makes an appearance and by then I am out of removal.
ROund 6 Abzan Mid-Range lost 0-2, game 1 we trade blows and I am doing well with the beats and then I flood. Game 2 Flood from the get, too much removal for what I was able to muster up.
So going forward I have a pretty good Idea how I want the deck to look.
Any suggestions would be welcomed, except the obvious wheres the Tarmo's, maybe someday but not today, besides I like Geist a bit more. Another is that I do like Birds over Nobles for some reason in this build. They did win me a game against an Ensnaring Bridge, with exalted trigger. Right now Geist of Saint Traft is crazy good, as everyone seems to be coming with targeted removal and being able to drop it T2 off a Dork is sweet or flipping him off CoCo mid-late game after a wipe is Brutal. Negate out of the side is pretty sweet against any combo-style deck especially with a Thalia in play already putting on the pinch. I think Detention Sphere could be a good catch all removal as well so I want to try it out as a singleton.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BWGUB Sultai Constrictor BUG Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG Modern : GB Golgari Elves BGGR Atarka Goblins RG Pauper : W Heroic WGB Delve BG
4-0'd a DE with Paul Rietzl list. The grim lavamancers seem super awkward in the sideboard. It's a pretty solid deck. I guess you can play a fair green deck without thoughtseize and/or a combo and beat people who stumble.
I would definitely swap the nobles and birds in that list. Is it really not hurting you running 12 3 drops, especially with 4 of them being a legendary. I also push unified will over negate.
G1 he managed to establish the mindslaver lock at 1 life.
G2 he just had the answers to everything.
beat Abzan 2-0 in the 2nd match.
G1 managed to get a free smiter off that he couldnt find any removal for and rode it to victory alongside elspeth and kessig wolf run.
G2 locked him out with blood moon.
lost to jund 0-2 in the last match.
G1 got outgrinded by liliana and removal spells and not drawing a single CoCo.
G2 more of the same. We had a clear board and he drew gas while i drew lands and dorks, again no CoCo.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I've been playing an Oscapo based Zoo a lot recently. No patience to make a full report, but I can provide some of my findings:
- Kessig Wolf Run has MASSIVELY over-performed.
- Playing 1x manland is great. (Currently on Raging Ravine)
- Ghost Quarter is still debatable. It's good against the manlands of Infect and Affinity. Against Tron, you can punish their suboptimal hands, but it won't save you from their good draws.
- I play a 4th CoCo in the SB and bring it in against all of the decks full of removal. It has been lovely. I won't ever go down to 3 in the 75.
- Down to 3 Qasali Pridemage to test out 1x Dromoka's Command. It appears that Command is not always relevant. But when it IS relevant, it is FANTASTIC, and is often relevant in some of our worse matchups.
- I haven't been sideboarding in Blood Moon as much as I expected. Outside of decks where it is actual hate (Tron, Amulet, Scapeshift), it is too passive or doesn't have enough impact. I think I'm going to restrict it to UWR and Abzan when I'm on the play.
- I don't have room for Choke in my SB, and I definitely miss it against Twin and Delver, but I haven't found it necessary in those matchups.
Sorry to hear that GoST any ideas to shape it up for next week?
My changes in the deck have really pulled some work. Voice is debateable, but command has been amazing out of the board. AND FIREY JUSTICE IS WAY BETTER THAN BONFIRE. Switch it right now if you havent. 5 for one is totally insane... But Ive been using it against junk and the like too.
Lantern, you gotta back up that Fiery Justice vs Bonfire claim! In addition to providing some reasoning, is this in Zoo with or without mana dorks? Because that is likely key to your experience.
My changes in the deck have really pulled some work. Voice is debateable, but command has been amazing out of the board. AND FIREY JUSTICE IS WAY BETTER THAN BONFIRE. Switch it right now if you havent. 5 for one is totally insane... But Ive been using it against junk and the like too.
You can't compare Justice and Bonfire. Justice has a limited amount of damage and against decks like Abzan it helps them to survive longer, whereas Bonfire helps us killing them faster and also can turn around whole games. Justice target creatures, which Bonfire isn't doing. Targeting creatures is bad against cards like Wild Defiance, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, Hexproof and so on). Against Elves you want to kill there whole board and not only 2 creatures (if they have a lord), the same goes for Merfolk. Against a full board of creatures, bonfire is better since it can kill more.
What does your list with Fiery Justice looks like?
Yeah, Bonfire is better than Fiery Justice when they have a completely full board and you either miracle it or have gross amounts of mana, but killing 3 guys with Fiery Justice is often more than enough combined with our Bolts/Paths/whatever else you're boarding in. There are a lot of early game scenarios where Bonfire looks really silly rotting in your hand like 2 elves, Archdruid, Spellskite, where Fiery Justice is just absurd. I find with Big Zoo the life isn't as relevant, because if we're killing them, we're usually killing them big time with huge creatures, not barely scraping lethal in.
I've been running Fiery Justice out of the board for over a year and it's always been one of my favorite board cards.
Same reasons above. You often hit for "3 damage" because of the life gain... but with blockers in the way (or elves that are about to win the game) you'd probably do less.
2-1 vs Merfolk
2-0 vs UWR Control
2-1 vs Abzan Company
2-0 vs UR Twin
Sunday I'll be playing at a 5k at my LGS and I'll probably have some borrowed Goyfs. I'm thinking about doing these changes:
-4 Loam Lion, +4 Tarmogoyf
-1 Pridemage, -1 Loxodon Smiter, +2 Ooze
SB: -1 Rest in Peace, +1 Thalia
I could drop Geist and blue entirely to play Goyfs and Oozes like in Osackpo's list, but Geist has been an absolute bomb for me that I want to stick with it. My creature curve would be 8 at CMC1, 9 at CMC2 and 10 at CMC3 and that seems fine.
I'll try the Oozes in those spots on Thursday, maybe. Since I will only have the Goyfs avaliable sunday, I'll stick with Loam Lions and try to think how they would go if they were Goyfs just for thought.
My meta has a lot of Abzan/Jund, some UWR Controls/Twin/Burn and every now and then I face some Merfolk/Boggles/Affinity/Delver...
It's way too slow. For 3cc, it doesn't do enough.
Standard
UGRB Emerge
Modern
U Tron
Legacy
UWBRG The E.P.I.C. Storm
after Collected Company turns out to be really great,
i ask about the difference between running 4 Noble Hierarch or
instead 4 Birds of Paradise.
Does the Exalted Trigger matters a lot of Times or is it just negatable?
How often do you wish your Dork could produce R instead or G, W, U ?
Green @ it's best
I think loam lions have a shot with gideon. Working on a aggro build with him to see what happens.
After some tinkering I'm wondering if the deck can handle two Ghost Quarters in the deck to help with land destruction. This is my idea going forward. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
1 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Choke
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Stony Silence
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
I'm worried I'll end up shooting my eye out with all the fetches for shocks by taking out some of the basics but I feel there's room to advance this deck to utilize Knight of the Reliquary to it's full potential.
Why not try Frontline Medic?
I joke. Because its better value to be able to make dudes indestructable in responce to a wipe. Grant it, id rather coco after a wipe than in reaponce.
I dont like ghost quarter in zoo. Were pretty greedy with mana costs. We want alot of green and white and at least 1 red. Probably better to run fulminators or blood moon effects.
In legacy your run wastelands. But its not
The reason why youd run worse lands like tech edge or quarter. In legacy you use wasteland as a way to stay in early game longer. As in, if you have 2 lands and i have two lands, its turn 2 where my deck is better than yours. If my thrid land is wasteland, and i kill your thrid land its still "turn 2"
Weird logic, but do you follow? When there is less lands on the field, we are better.
You cant do that in modern. Knight into quaurter turn 4 against tron and bloom is often too late.
Here is what I played.
1x Breeding Pool
2x Flooded Strand
1x Forest
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Plains
3x Sacred Foundry
3x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Creature (26)
3x Birds of Paradise
2x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Kitchen Finks
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Loxodon Smiter
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Noble Hierarch
3x Qasali Pridemage
4x Wild Nacatl
3x Collected Company
1x Dromoka's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
1x Atarka's Command
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Bonfire of the Damned
2x Combust
2x Destructive Revelry
2x Negate
1x Pithing Needle
2x Stony Silence
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Round 1 Lantern Lock deck, I won 2-1, first game he got the lock on quick 2nd game 2 got the beats fast with T2 Geist into T3 Loxodon, game 3 T2 Stony sealed it.
Round 2 Bots lost 0-2, just way too fast and drew not enough removal, looking to move to mass artifact hate i.e. Hurkyl's Recall.
Round 3 Jund won 2-0, was able to out gas him on the threat vs. removal game CoCo sealed game 1, game 2 I get the T3 Geist and no answer 2 turns later.
Round 4 Infect won 2-1, Game 1I get beats early and keep him off one shoting me, game 2 I roll too slow and he gets in 3 good pokes, game 3 I have all the needed removal and a timely Negate didn't hurt.
Round 5 Titan Bloom lost 2-1, game 1 she goes off no answer, game 2 we play a fair game and Geist w/ Kessig seal it fast, game 3 um ya I have removal's then Thragtusk makes an appearance and by then I am out of removal.
ROund 6 Abzan Mid-Range lost 0-2, game 1 we trade blows and I am doing well with the beats and then I flood. Game 2 Flood from the get, too much removal for what I was able to muster up.
So going forward I have a pretty good Idea how I want the deck to look.
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Loxodon Smiter
1x Noble Hierarch
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Wild Nacatl
Instant (11)
3x Collected Company
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
1x Breeding Pool
2x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Kessig Wolf Run
2x Plains
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Stomping Ground
2x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Bonfire of the Damned
2x Destructive Revelry
1x Detention Sphere
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Negate
2x Stony Silence
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Any suggestions would be welcomed, except the obvious wheres the Tarmo's, maybe someday but not today, besides I like Geist a bit more. Another is that I do like Birds over Nobles for some reason in this build. They did win me a game against an Ensnaring Bridge, with exalted trigger. Right now Geist of Saint Traft is crazy good, as everyone seems to be coming with targeted removal and being able to drop it T2 off a Dork is sweet or flipping him off CoCo mid-late game after a wipe is Brutal. Negate out of the side is pretty sweet against any combo-style deck especially with a Thalia in play already putting on the pinch. I think Detention Sphere could be a good catch all removal as well so I want to try it out as a singleton.
Current Decks
Standard : WB Orzhov Vampires BW GUB Sultai Constrictor BUG
Brawl : GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons BG
Modern : GB Golgari Elves BG GR Atarka Goblins RG
Pauper : W Heroic W GB Delve BG
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Lost to blue tron 0-2 in the 1st match.
G1 he managed to establish the mindslaver lock at 1 life.
G2 he just had the answers to everything.
beat Abzan 2-0 in the 2nd match.
G1 managed to get a free smiter off that he couldnt find any removal for and rode it to victory alongside elspeth and kessig wolf run.
G2 locked him out with blood moon.
lost to jund 0-2 in the last match.
G1 got outgrinded by liliana and removal spells and not drawing a single CoCo.
G2 more of the same. We had a clear board and he drew gas while i drew lands and dorks, again no CoCo.
- Kessig Wolf Run has MASSIVELY over-performed.
- Playing 1x manland is great. (Currently on Raging Ravine)
- Ghost Quarter is still debatable. It's good against the manlands of Infect and Affinity. Against Tron, you can punish their suboptimal hands, but it won't save you from their good draws.
- I play a 4th CoCo in the SB and bring it in against all of the decks full of removal. It has been lovely. I won't ever go down to 3 in the 75.
- Down to 3 Qasali Pridemage to test out 1x Dromoka's Command. It appears that Command is not always relevant. But when it IS relevant, it is FANTASTIC, and is often relevant in some of our worse matchups.
- I haven't been sideboarding in Blood Moon as much as I expected. Outside of decks where it is actual hate (Tron, Amulet, Scapeshift), it is too passive or doesn't have enough impact. I think I'm going to restrict it to UWR and Abzan when I'm on the play.
- I don't have room for Choke in my SB, and I definitely miss it against Twin and Delver, but I haven't found it necessary in those matchups.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
My changes in the deck have really pulled some work. Voice is debateable, but command has been amazing out of the board. AND FIREY JUSTICE IS WAY BETTER THAN BONFIRE. Switch it right now if you havent. 5 for one is totally insane... But Ive been using it against junk and the like too.
Legacy: Strawberry Shortcake, Aggro Loam, DnT+b
Modern: Devoted Karn
Vintage: Survival
Yeah, Bonfire is better than Fiery Justice when they have a completely full board and you either miracle it or have gross amounts of mana, but killing 3 guys with Fiery Justice is often more than enough combined with our Bolts/Paths/whatever else you're boarding in. There are a lot of early game scenarios where Bonfire looks really silly rotting in your hand like 2 elves, Archdruid, Spellskite, where Fiery Justice is just absurd. I find with Big Zoo the life isn't as relevant, because if we're killing them, we're usually killing them big time with huge creatures, not barely scraping lethal in.
I've been running Fiery Justice out of the board for over a year and it's always been one of my favorite board cards.
Same reasons above. You often hit for "3 damage" because of the life gain... but with blockers in the way (or elves that are about to win the game) you'd probably do less.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Loam Lion
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Loxodon Smiter
Spells (11)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Collected Company
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Rest in Peace
2 Hallow
2 Celestial Purge
2 Wear // Tear
1 Rending Volley
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Boros Charm
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Back to Nature
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Fiery Justice
2-1 vs Merfolk
2-0 vs UWR Control
2-1 vs Abzan Company
2-0 vs UR Twin
Sunday I'll be playing at a 5k at my LGS and I'll probably have some borrowed Goyfs. I'm thinking about doing these changes:
-4 Loam Lion, +4 Tarmogoyf
-1 Pridemage, -1 Loxodon Smiter, +2 Ooze
SB: -1 Rest in Peace, +1 Thalia
I could drop Geist and blue entirely to play Goyfs and Oozes like in Osackpo's list, but Geist has been an absolute bomb for me that I want to stick with it. My creature curve would be 8 at CMC1, 9 at CMC2 and 10 at CMC3 and that seems fine.
I'll try the Oozes in those spots on Thursday, maybe. Since I will only have the Goyfs avaliable sunday, I'll stick with Loam Lions and try to think how they would go if they were Goyfs just for thought.
My meta has a lot of Abzan/Jund, some UWR Controls/Twin/Burn and every now and then I face some Merfolk/Boggles/Affinity/Delver...
Any advices?
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn