So below is the list I think I'll be using when Atarka's command. It might be a little to "big" which if it was Id probably cut a 2 drop or 3 drop for the last apes/lion. Atarkas command in my testing is SUPER worth having. It often is a 2 mana 6 damage spell. Thats insane.
Helixes should be Commands. Sideboard should have two Rending Volley, and 1 Dromaka's Command.
As much as I loved having 12 one drops, I cant really justify it, while getting pat cox flashbacks of him saying "Loam lion sucks" Its a little true. Modern is full of these +4 toughness dudes, I just think a better curve is better than a 1 mana 2/3 attacker.
I have decided to reset my zoo deck.. I have discovered that I have over tuned my deck to be inefficient. I have went back to my Naya Roots and plan on continuing with naya if/when I am going to get goyfs. Thank you Modern Masters 2 reprinting them, I don't know you guys but I am excited. I do have three slots in my sideboard currently open and can't decide what to put into the deck. I currently have leyline of punishment in the spot for life gain, but I have also thought about Vexing Shusher in the side board. what do you all think?
Vexing Shusher is fine. Modern isn't really dominated by control decks though. Regardless, You probably shouldnt run 4 rancor. When I was into rancor I was using 4 ghorclan, 2 rancor.
Speaking of Abzan Liege, my list is surprisingly similar to the list Jacob Wilson ran at the Pro Tour, except I'm using red instead of black as my third color. At this point, would it just be better off if I dropped red and splashed black? Basically I would be replacing Nacatl, Bolt, Helix, Restructive Revelry, and Molten Rain with Thoughtseize, Lingering Souls, Siege Rhino, Tasigur, and Abrupt Decay. Would that be worth the swap in colors?
I honestly have been playing Doran the past couple weeks. I just dont know where i want to be with zoo right now.
The next time i do play it, it will have 4 shaman of the great hunt in the maindeck.
I personally dont see lightning bolt being that well positioned and that is about the main reason to play red.
So below is the list I think I'll be using when Atarka's command. It might be a little to "big" which if it was Id probably cut a 2 drop or 3 drop for the last apes/lion. Atarkas command in my testing is SUPER worth having. It often is a 2 mana 6 damage spell. Thats insane.
Helixes should be Commands. Sideboard should have two Rending Volley, and 1 Dromaka's Command.
As much as I loved having 12 one drops, I cant really justify it, while getting pat cox flashbacks of him saying "Loam lion sucks" Its a little true. Modern is full of these +4 toughness dudes, I just think a better curve is better than a 1 mana 2/3 attacker.
I guess you kept in mind that Atarka's Command only hit Players, not Creatures while building the Deck?
How important does the Hymn-Effect become during playtesting?
Hymn? I don't follow which effect you're refering too. You mean anthem?
I'm aware it hits players. That being said, it on average games hits for boros charm damage, so I see it more akin to that.
~land drop effect: I used it once to get out a turn 3 ajani against rdw who was stuck on a land. Other than that, this modes been non existent (I havent tried bigger zoo tests yet.) There was a single other time where I thought I might do it against a death cloud deck that thought siezed me, but I opted to say "no lifegain this turn instead" since he had more mana then I care to count... then he casted primal command. So I did it right.
~Pump: I've used pump VERY offensively, alot of the time, to give ass to my critters to be a safe offensive... Only ever once defensively. That was when I had 2 commands and a brimaz out to kill stuff and win on the swing back. No, its mostly to give a 4 toughness ass (screw you bolt) Or to climb over walls or finks. I genrally get 3+ damage off on this mode.
~Bolt: this is the effect that has been pretty much what I use everytime. Theres only been a handful of times I havent bolted them as well.
~Prevent lifegain: I've actually used this more times than I thought I would. Lot of splash damage and life gain comin in against us because rdw I guess.
As far as the damage thing goes. I really wish we got the shock over the bolt... because the spell would be broken for us then, but its fine. I'm using a lot of removal actually, 4 bolts, 4 paths, 2 domris, 2 ajanis, 4 rampager if you wanna count that, and 3 command if you wanna count the pump as being pinch removal. If I felt I needed more removal, Id probably lower my curve to slip in 2-3 helixes. Take out the ajanis, domris, scoozes and see what I should do with it.
Your sideboard need some rework. Seems a bit random to me.
I had a smiliar change in my mind adding 3 Voices and 2 Wilt-Leaf Liege and cutting 3 Scooze and 2 Chandra, Pyromaster. Scooze hasn't been that impressiv for me, so Voice would make some aggro matchups better and is great against Abzan, Twin and Control. With Liege the deck would be more aggressiv and my Tarmos could fight my opponent ones without exalted. Smiter would just kill Rhino. Everything except Noble Hierarch would be out of Anger range.
What changes would you suggest for the sideboard? Also, should I just cut Ooze from the 75?
And this is my attempt at Tribal Zoo, which in paper I like very much but I havent got to try. For this I would have to buy the Geists and the Rhinos, and later on I guess a couple of Snapcasters.
I dont have in mind getting Tarmos anywhere near future, but I may be able to get a friend to lend them to me.
The deck is mostly just for local store / kitchen table (where Kitchen Finks fits very well, hehe). But anyways, here are my sideboard choices.
4 Destructive Revelry - Used to have a 2/2 split between Revelry and Ancient Grudge, and then I got owned by Bogles. So I figure to just up Revelry to 4 copies, to improve my Bogles matchup while still being decent against Affinity.
2 Kor Firewalker - For Burn and Storm, though with Helix and Finks, not sure if I need it
2 Rest In Peace - for Snapcaster, Goyf, graveyard shenanigans
2 Torpor Orb - for Twin, Snapcaster, Soul Sisters
1 Hushwing Gryff - Torpor Orb #3, not sure if it's worth being fancy flashing in a Hushwing in response to the opponent flashing in a Pestermite
4 Molten Rain - for Tron and greedy manabases. Might just swap those out for 2 Aven Mindcensor and 2 Fulminator Mage.
I have decided to reset my zoo deck.. I have discovered that I have over tuned my deck to be inefficient. I have went back to my Naya Roots and plan on continuing with naya if/when I am going to get goyfs. Thank you Modern Masters 2 reprinting them, I don't know you guys but I am excited. I do have three slots in my sideboard currently open and can't decide what to put into the deck. I currently have leyline of punishment in the spot for life gain, but I have also thought about Vexing Shusher in the side board. what do you all think?
Vexing Shusher is fine. Modern isn't really dominated by control decks though. Regardless, You probably shouldnt run 4 rancor. When I was into rancor I was using 4 ghorclan, 2 rancor.
[quote from="Metal_GuN »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/565682-zoo-video-primer?comment=2223"]Any help with this list? no Tarmos because of budget.
Altight.. well then I could run 1 more elspeth with only 2 rancor
Lantern, what do you think about Surrak, Hunt Caller from Dragons of Tarkir? Is he good in Zoo? A 5/4 for 4 that can give haste to all our guys and has pseudo-haste...
Lantern, what do you think about Surrak, Hunt Caller from Dragons of Tarkir? Is he good in Zoo? A 5/4 for 4 that can give haste to all our guys and has pseudo-haste...
Not a fan. When I think of things in terms of playability I generally use these standards:
1 cmc, reliable 2 powerful or above. Can die to bolt. Kird Ape, Steppe Lynx
2 cmc, must be bolt resistant. Pridemage can pop in response to bolt, voice replaces itself, goyf is goyf.
3 Cmc, must be able to void "removal" in one sence or another. Smitter beats "counterspell removal" Giest beats doomblade removal, Knight beats Bolt removal. It also must hit for 4 plus damage.
4 cmc, must be able to win the game on its own, almost impossible to easy remove, and be able to deal damage regardless of obstacles. Siege rhino has trample, ghor-clan has trample, ajani can helix, elspeth can jump things.
Surrak, as much as I wanna punch things in the face, doesnt do it. Even a 5/4 haste isnt really that great at 4 because thats our end game. His damage checks out alright, but his haste doesnt close games on its own, and he has no way to deal damage regardless of blockers.
I tried out 4x Eidolon of the Great Revel last night and it was fantastic. I ended up going 2-1-1 drawing with Esper control due to a bad play and then losing to Grixis Delver in the last round. Playing against Grixis Delver rekindled my hatred for Snapcaster Mage. I freaking hate that card, especially since their removal is so "big" in that only hexproof is good against them.
Two things I realized last night:
1. I'm not sold on Pridemage anymore. Might play Thalia, Voice, or something else in its place.
2. There is almost no need for basic mountain in the deck.
3. I hate Snapcaster Mage to death.
Here's the list I played, it was extremely consistent. Just wish I had drawn some removal the last match.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Experiment One
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
Land
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
3 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
I am not sure what else to do. I have no way to get goyfs.
CEldraziTron, UBMill, GWBogles
Legacy
GUInfect, CEldrazi
Standard
GRGR Pummeler
Helixes should be Commands. Sideboard should have two Rending Volley, and 1 Dromaka's Command.
As much as I loved having 12 one drops, I cant really justify it, while getting pat cox flashbacks of him saying "Loam lion sucks" Its a little true. Modern is full of these +4 toughness dudes, I just think a better curve is better than a 1 mana 2/3 attacker.
You dont have any 3 drops at all, meaning you could do 20 lands if not 19. As far noble heirch goes? Not worth it. Run E1.
Vexing Shusher is fine. Modern isn't really dominated by control decks though. Regardless, You probably shouldnt run 4 rancor. When I was into rancor I was using 4 ghorclan, 2 rancor.
I mean it looks fine. As others said, Grim is a little ackward with knight.
Noble Hierarch over birds.
I know the land base could prob need some work.
2x Forest
2x Mountain
2x Plains
2x Sacred Foundry
3x Stomping Ground
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Atarka's Command
4x Boros Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
Creature (20)
4x Ghor-Clan Rampager
4x Kird Ape
4x Loam Lion
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Wild Nacatl
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
3 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
CREATURES
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to exile
4 Lightning Helix
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Feed the Clan
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Celestial Purge
2 Blood Moon
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Other Spells: 18
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Hushwing Gryff
1 Torpor Orb
3 Molten Rain
I honestly have been playing Doran the past couple weeks. I just dont know where i want to be with zoo right now.
The next time i do play it, it will have 4 shaman of the great hunt in the maindeck.
I personally dont see lightning bolt being that well positioned and that is about the main reason to play red.
I might go back to big naya once collective company is legal
I guess you kept in mind that Atarka's Command only hit Players, not Creatures while building the Deck?
How important does the Hymn-Effect become during playtesting?
Green @ it's best
I'm aware it hits players. That being said, it on average games hits for boros charm damage, so I see it more akin to that.
~land drop effect: I used it once to get out a turn 3 ajani against rdw who was stuck on a land. Other than that, this modes been non existent (I havent tried bigger zoo tests yet.) There was a single other time where I thought I might do it against a death cloud deck that thought siezed me, but I opted to say "no lifegain this turn instead" since he had more mana then I care to count... then he casted primal command. So I did it right.
~Pump: I've used pump VERY offensively, alot of the time, to give ass to my critters to be a safe offensive... Only ever once defensively. That was when I had 2 commands and a brimaz out to kill stuff and win on the swing back. No, its mostly to give a 4 toughness ass (screw you bolt) Or to climb over walls or finks. I genrally get 3+ damage off on this mode.
~Bolt: this is the effect that has been pretty much what I use everytime. Theres only been a handful of times I havent bolted them as well.
~Prevent lifegain: I've actually used this more times than I thought I would. Lot of splash damage and life gain comin in against us because rdw I guess.
As far as the damage thing goes. I really wish we got the shock over the bolt... because the spell would be broken for us then, but its fine. I'm using a lot of removal actually, 4 bolts, 4 paths, 2 domris, 2 ajanis, 4 rampager if you wanna count that, and 3 command if you wanna count the pump as being pinch removal. If I felt I needed more removal, Id probably lower my curve to slip in 2-3 helixes. Take out the ajanis, domris, scoozes and see what I should do with it.
Right now I have access to the following core parts of Zoo:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
0 Any Shock land
CREATURES
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Loam Lion
4 Kird Ape
4 Experiment One
4 Rancor
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tribal Flames
4 Path to exile
4 Lightning Helix
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Domri
0 Different blue counter spells
Im not sure which path should I go, I though about this 2 lists:
3 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
2 Loam Lion
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to exile
4 Lightning Helix
1 Domri
This is my attempt at Big Zoo. For this I would have to buy the 3 Arid Mesa and the 4 Knights of the Reliquary.
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Underground Tomb
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Bird of Paradise
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Loxodon Smiter
3 Siege Rhino
OTHER SPELLS
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Tribal Flames
3 Path to exile
2 Lightning Helix
2 Lingering Souls
2 Mana Leak
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
And this is my attempt at Tribal Zoo, which in paper I like very much but I havent got to try. For this I would have to buy the Geists and the Rhinos, and later on I guess a couple of Snapcasters.
I dont have in mind getting Tarmos anywhere near future, but I may be able to get a friend to lend them to me.
4 Destructive Revelry - Used to have a 2/2 split between Revelry and Ancient Grudge, and then I got owned by Bogles. So I figure to just up Revelry to 4 copies, to improve my Bogles matchup while still being decent against Affinity.
2 Kor Firewalker - For Burn and Storm, though with Helix and Finks, not sure if I need it
2 Rest In Peace - for Snapcaster, Goyf, graveyard shenanigans
2 Torpor Orb - for Twin, Snapcaster, Soul Sisters
1 Hushwing Gryff - Torpor Orb #3, not sure if it's worth being fancy flashing in a Hushwing in response to the opponent flashing in a Pestermite
4 Molten Rain - for Tron and greedy manabases. Might just swap those out for 2 Aven Mindcensor and 2 Fulminator Mage.
Yes, meant that.
Do you think Goblin Rabblemaster could be worth a shot along with Command?
Green @ it's best
Vexing Shusher is fine. Modern isn't really dominated by control decks though. Regardless, You probably shouldnt run 4 rancor. When I was into rancor I was using 4 ghorclan, 2 rancor.
[quote from="Metal_GuN »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/565682-zoo-video-primer?comment=2223"]Any help with this list? no Tarmos because of budget.
Altight.. well then I could run 1 more elspeth with only 2 rancor
Modern
Small Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-03-15-small-zoo/)
Green/White Hatebears (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-02-15-hate/)
Legacy
Affinity (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/stega/)
Commander
Heavenly Inferno Kaalia of the Vast (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/heavenly-inferno-revised/)
That's a Handful Nekusar, the Mindrazer (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/thats-a-handful/)
Uprising Sliver Overlord (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/up-rising/)
Retired Decks
Jundassic (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jundassic/)
Melira Pod (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/22-09-14-melira-pod/)
Dark Naya Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/26-01-15-dark-naya-zoo/)
Naya Zoo (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-10-14-my-zoo/)
No it dies to bolt.
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Not a fan. When I think of things in terms of playability I generally use these standards:
1 cmc, reliable 2 powerful or above. Can die to bolt. Kird Ape, Steppe Lynx
2 cmc, must be bolt resistant. Pridemage can pop in response to bolt, voice replaces itself, goyf is goyf.
3 Cmc, must be able to void "removal" in one sence or another. Smitter beats "counterspell removal" Giest beats doomblade removal, Knight beats Bolt removal. It also must hit for 4 plus damage.
4 cmc, must be able to win the game on its own, almost impossible to easy remove, and be able to deal damage regardless of obstacles. Siege rhino has trample, ghor-clan has trample, ajani can helix, elspeth can jump things.
Surrak, as much as I wanna punch things in the face, doesnt do it. Even a 5/4 haste isnt really that great at 4 because thats our end game. His damage checks out alright, but his haste doesnt close games on its own, and he has no way to deal damage regardless of blockers.
I'll try to analyze things on that perspective from now on. Thanks a lot, Lantern =]
WGUBR 5c Humans
GWR Naya Zoo
Legacy:
GW GW Maverick
R Goblins
Two things I realized last night:
1. I'm not sold on Pridemage anymore. Might play Thalia, Voice, or something else in its place.
2. There is almost no need for basic mountain in the deck.
3. I hate Snapcaster Mage to death.
Here's the list I played, it was extremely consistent. Just wish I had drawn some removal the last match.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Stomping Grounds
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Kird Ape
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Qasali Pridemage <-- being cut
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Domri Rade
I'm thinking about running Surgical Extraction in the board, other than Choke what are some other good snapcaster board spells?
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