Having mentioned that Boros Charm was lackluster, what other options do you have in replacing it?
I'm of the same opinion as Lantern, Charm is fine, but I didn't play any of the matchups where it was super useful. I wouldn't mind trying -2 Charm +1 Pridemage +1 Ghor Clan, but I think 4 Rampagers might be too many.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
This more or less. You got to also realize there are very few creatures that ghor's pump doesnt kill. But without getting into the cons and seem like someone who hates new ideas (and bare in mind, no I havent tested it.) lets look at whats good about it.
It kills creatures that cant normally die by pump or burn (titans, huge goyfs, hell, eldrazi.)
Its a destroy effect, meaning damage prevention isnt working on it.
Its Uncreature reliant, meaning you cant be blown out by random bolt, or having to burn and sac your creature to BLANK in combat to kill it.
It still pushes damage through and is reactive (Ghor clan, for the most part is proactive.
Isnt an activated ability, so pithing and the like dont stop it.
Alright, so theres some right off the bat that make it better... but lets look what ghors got over it, and the main reason why I just stick with ghor and not test it.
Ghor doesnt target the creature, which is important against hexproof or protection from red creatures.
Ghor can be a creature if board is empty. (above curve to boot.)
Ghor can pump for the kill when safe or needed.
ghor will generally deal more damage. Probably the same with kird ape but things like a 4/4 knight it will do far more.
So over all? their not the same, but ghor can do most of what ride can, but it can do quite a bit more, and what it lacks against ride, it only lacks slightly.
Having mentioned that Boros Charm was lackluster, what other options do you have in replacing it?
I'm of the same opinion as Lantern, Charm is fine, but I didn't play any of the matchups where it was super useful. I wouldn't mind trying -2 Charm +1 Pridemage +1 Ghor Clan, but I think 4 Rampagers might be too many.
I do too. Its just better for the curve as a lower amount. I went from 4 charms, to 2, two pridemages, and then drop them all togather about a few months ago.
But also, video soon, but the testing Ive done with lynxs has been pretty postitive. It was getting in for quite a lot of damage.
Noticed any cool new decks springing up with the onslaught fetches being legal now? Any grixis control or the like? Also, what does everyone think of that jeskai ascendancy combo deck. Kinda freaks me out.
Standard Mardu Midrange Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
Alright, so lets say your commander is Riku of Two Reflections. Combo commander, to be sure, but lets push this into the realm of absurd. You cast Palinchron and do your Riku thing to make infinite mana because we're going to need it. Forget about your extra Palinchron tokens. A million flying 4/5s is boring. So now you cast Enter the Infinite, because drawing your deck is important. Follow it up with a Obstinate Familiar because not decking yourself is equally important. Laboratory Maniac could work here too, but we're gonna go some more levels deep. Cast a Greater Good because we want a tasteful sac outlet. Follow this up with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season,Copy Enchantment, Clever Impersonator, Mycosynth Latice, Phyrexian Metamorph, and Copy Artifact giving you 6 double token effects. Here's where it gets fun now. Cast a Reef Worm. Sac it to greater good and get 256 Fish, which you sac to get 65,536 whales, which you sac to get 16,777,216 Krakens. Are we done yet? Nope! Cast Thromok the Insatiable, devouring all your krakens to make a 281,474,976,710,656/281,474,976,710,656 Thromok. Where do we go from here though? Let your opponent cast Death Mutation on him! Why, that's 7.20575940x10^16 tokens! Good thing we have Body Double to make another Thromok the Insatiable who will be a 5.19229686x10^33/5.19229686x10^33! Seems big enough, but not for us! Since we're red anyways, lets cast a Furnace of Rath, Dictate of the Twin Gods, and a Fire Servant! Now it's time to Fling your guy, dealing a spicy 4.15383749x10^34 damage to your opponent. To put that in perspective, there are an estimated 3x10^23 stars in the known universe. You dealt more damage than there are stars. That'll give your opponent something to think about. PROTIP: Dodge Spellskite decks
Noticed any cool new decks springing up with the onslaught fetches being legal now? Any grixis control or the like? Also, what does everyone think of that jeskai ascendancy combo deck. Kinda freaks me out.
I'm building a Cruel Control deck right now because Polluted Delta makes it a lot more viable and it's the only control deck that really appeals to me. As for the Jeskai Ascendancy deck, it doesn't really worry me since I run 4 Pridemages maindeck, and a good amount of removal, so unless they get the nut draw and kill me turn 2, I think I've got a pretty good game 1. If it gets really popular I may end up putting Rule of Law or Ethersworn Canonist in my sideboard, but I don't think it's come to that.
Noticed any cool new decks springing up with the onslaught fetches being legal now? Any grixis control or the like? Also, what does everyone think of that jeskai ascendancy combo deck. Kinda freaks me out.
I know one guy there is going to play esper, but didn't have time to proxy it out. Don't know about grixis since its missing path and a good manland.
I have been playing the Jeskai deck on cockatrice and actually want to build it in real life, since it actually can kill on turn 2 if you have a prob. The deck is pretty dumb.
I feel like you could drop to 18 lands safely in that deck Blue Nacatl. You don't have any 3 drops other than choke. This could bring in a couple more lions or something. Just a thought.
I'm ganna be playing Janksi's ascention all night tonight... For no other reason than to understand the deck and bring us counter measures.
From what I think so far... If you get in as much damage prior to turn 4ish, and burn them out, you might win before they get all their peices togather, as their life total drips to around 10ish for turn 3.
There's a thread on the Modern general forum debating about Destructive Revelry vs Ancient Grudge. I am just wondering, which one is better for Zoo? (mainly wondering about Naya colors)
There's a thread on the Modern general forum debating about Destructive Revelry vs Ancient Grudge. I am just wondering, which one is better for Zoo? (mainly wondering about Naya colors)
Honestly? Wear/Tear is the one I've come to like the most. Ancient Grudge is good against Affinity, but nothing else that runs artifacts is affected as strongly by the two for one nature of the card and Affinity isn't a horrible match up for Zoo anyways. I think the two damage on Revelry is largely irrelevant. Sure it's "nice" and its versatile, but always having to pay two mana for it is rough given that you aren't really planning on going past three or four lands anyway. Wear/Tear on the other hand, has all the versatility of Revelry, with the option to be cheaper, and takes up less space in the board, which is what I feel is most important. The nature of Zoo's board is to play the cards with the most impact because whether we draw them or not is luck, so they have to be game changing when we do.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
Alright then. I've come with some speical news. I hate jeskai ascendancy. Why do I hate it? Because it seems Jankai (see what I did there?) But its not. Its actually probably on par with current storm, if not slightly better. I wouldnt put it as high as twin or pod good, but its somewhere in between.
So I've been playing the deck... much to my dismay... inorder to understand how it funtions in an out. I'm at a point now where I can even tweek lists, so I'll call that a good stopping place for me. After that I played against it with my current zoo to find out more in terms of what it means for us.
What is jeskai ascendancy? Well it uses the card, along with mana dorks like birds of paradise, and 1 mana cantrips like Serum Visions to chain their deck togather, giving them a massive 20+/21 flying bird to kill with, and or Grapeshot. But they have other outs too. Got a blocker for the bird? Flesh//Blood still kills you. Got some way to null out the grape shot, they have things like Debt to the Deadless.
While this seems like a crappy combo at first glance isnt. What breaks it is Glittering Wish. For those of you unlegacyed, this deck is moderns FIRST wishboard deck. Yes its a real term. It means their side is actually apart of the deck construction. Unlike us, who rock a core with support cards and powerful sideboard cards to bring in against matches, wishboards sideboard is less of a sideboard and more of a breadbox. They use it as a real utility belt and find answers to whatever problem they need.
For example, if you mull to find layline of sancity, turning off grapeshot, they can find card]Debt to the Deadless[/card] and kill you anyways. Or get a Golgari Charm, break it, than kill you.
It also means while the deck, as Izzet mage explains, was a 4/12 deck (its a 2 card combo engine, ascendancy + dork) is now a 7/12 (3 ascendancies main, 1 side to wish for), giving more redundancy. The result is a fairly consistant combo, that can win on turn 2 rarely, turn 3 off and on, and turn 4 always. But it's not unbeatable. Heres how you can beat it!
1. Kill all the dorks.
This ones got a bit of a problem. Theres a lot of dorks, and they can play more. Its not the best plan, and it wont turn them off forever, but luckly zoo backs its game with a short clock and the slow down should be enough. Secondly they also run Sylvian Caritad Who we cant kill... so thats an issue too. If your going to do this, you need to get some action on the board first. Dont bolt the bird right away, nacatl. Get the clock going before you ping away. If they have the turn 2 kill, it aint ganna matter. Secondly, if they rock a Sylvian Caritad next, time to turn on full race mode. Just get in as much damage on the short run and add pressure. Bolt the face, not dorks now. This will force them to go off, and give a chance for fizzleing.
Again, killing all the dudes is much easier if you have a grim lavamancer, Fiery Justice or volcanic fallout/ pyroclasm in the side. Also worth noting, they dont play basics. Path is a 1 mana exile spell.
2. Break ascendancy
Pridemage, destructive revelry, wear//tear, natrualize, deglamer, Krosan Grip, whatever you got that kills an enchantment, works here. Not its not the end of the world for them, but its a major set back. It forces them either to find a way to deal with it from wishing (costing them extra mana then they have early if they rush it) or it makes them find a new one which is awesome for us.
3. Apply pressure and hope they melt
The deck still falters. its more constant than you'd think, but it still gets bad hands and bad draws. You might be able to win by simply attacking them and putting them on a 4 turn clock. If they start blocking with dorks, your probably going to win.
4. Hate on the combo.
You can just aim to hate on the combo. Some of these work well to lesser or greater degrees.
Thalia- is only good if they have one dork. Shes good against storm... but here she gets cancled out by the second dork. Dont get me wrong, shes still better than nothing.
Linvala- 4 mana is a lot... and we have to not be dead by then, but its gg for them generally if she lands.
Angel's Grace- Narrow card for sure, but its good game if you catch them on it. casted, they cant kill you in responce because of the splitsecond, and it forces them to empty their pool with most of the library exhausted.
Layline of Sanctity- Again, they can beat it through an attacking bird or debt or breaking it with a wished answer... but forcing them to use a wish on it means they need to draw said wish, and it also means a wish in their hand becomes less good, as it cant just be a ascendancy and call it a day. If you have it in the board, use it, but I wouldnt mull for it if you had too.
Gaddock TeegNot the best card in the world, but if its a version running a X kill condition, it works. It also stops treasure cruise, which is nice as thats the card that makes this deck work aside from glittering wish.
Unified will/Swan song/mana titheA one trick pony... but a game win is a game win. They arent expecting a zoo deck to counter them, so they probably will just go for it without wish. That being said they can wish for gutteral response to counter it. Counter the ascendancy, not the wish for ascendancy.
Nevermore and the like: Its a lot of mana, and a weird choice, but it works.
Chalice of the void set to 1. Ya know, if your freakin' insane. But hey, what eves. It doesnt KILL the deck, but it makes a headache for them. Its totally an option to do turn 1 nacatl, turn 2 chalaice. Don't know why youd have it. Just kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel here...
Thats a long post, but be sure to read it. Its how to win. My board hasnt actually shifted at all sans one stony becoming a destructive revelry. With 2 pridemages, 2 grims, 4 bolts, 4 helix, 3 paths, then 3 laylines, 1 path, 2 revelries in the side, I've got already a good enough game against it. We wont see a ton of it online, because like eggs, its pretty stupid to try to do it online with all the triggers.
You might see it at fmn. If you do, make them do the whole combo. I'm not really promoting being a metaphorical dick, but it is a full deck combo, meaning it very realistically can go to time, and if they can't win fast enough, thats not your problem. Be nice and give them full priority, let them shortcut if they ask to, but make them finish. They might fizzle, just make sure they are doing everything correctly, and ask them to explain things if you have too, or call a judge over if you want to ensure everything is going correctly.
I ain't going to talk about the ban hammer here, as its against our rules, but let me just say, this smells a lot like eggs.
Even though I don't play Zoo, I feel like this is a solid list of ways to beat the deck. Thanks for that, it seems most are calling for bans already instead of figuring out how to win against it. Do you really think the play will stay at eggs speed, I have felt that as people play it they will be much better able to manage their own combos. Being that it's not an infinite combo it's harder to loop, but it's still a rather simple idea.
Do these people even know how to play zoo? Like really?
"The deck was getting flooded alot when I last recorded Modern zoo for channel fireball (ya know that list that was pure crap) so I decided to go up to 24 lands, and just cut all my utlity lands for horizon canopy. That should work.
Stop... Just stop jacob wilson. Aggro zoo with 24 lands, 4 oozes and 4 Ghorclans? Are you attempting to be midrange or zoo... Because you're ganna have to pick one... Like my list is higher curved, I grant you I extended it... But its still clearly aggro...
Even though I don't play Zoo, I feel like this is a solid list of ways to beat the deck. Thanks for that, it seems most are calling for bans already instead of figuring out how to win against it. Do you really think the play will stay at eggs speed, I have felt that as people play it they will be much better able to manage their own combos. Being that it's not an infinite combo it's harder to loop, but it's still a rather simple idea.
No clue. Im sure people with the know how for the deck will do it faster, but everythings slows down at a gp level.
Summ up the videos, since they arent worth watching:
Vs Delver
Game one, opponent mulls to 5. He gets a lynx and wild in opener. Opponent makes a play error that costs him the game.
Game two, He wins, Not an intresting game, tons of removal, then ghor sticks.
Vs merfolk
Opponent disconnects, and jacob says he could have won regardless... Probably untrue because he had no access to red and no good creatures. If you cant burn the lords, and you have an island, your probably going to lose.
Vs Delver
Did he just say ooze was better, because he didnt want to play fleece mane lion? Really? Like... If you were ganna play a 3/3 it would be flinthoof boar... Just sayin... Anyways Opponent gets stuck on a single land and loses.
Game 2 Yet another one lander. He should have lost for fetching a basic forest turn 1 when your running helix, ape, and boros charm...
Vs Tron
Game 1 he races and wins.
Game 2 He drew 2 molten rain, so he won.
Well there you go guys. 4-0ed... 1 because of a disconnect, 1 due to a huge player error, and 2 due to a guy being stuck on a single land. Dunno if you could count that "good testing"
Lantern what do you think about Doran + Mardu Ascendancy Zoo?
At a first glance it might be just a worse zoo. However being able to threaten "combo" kill (doran + ascendancy + any guy can get them down) might be slightly better than rampager.
Only watched the first match earlier before I went to work (CFB updates about 5am in the UK). Not a fan of the list for the reasons already covered by Lantern.
Additionally I'd say Steppe Lynx is already a sketchy choice if Wilson thinks it needs heavier land count to support, since we're open to flooding but not drawing a Lynx. At least something like Experiment One encourages us to run more creatures (something we're already in the market for), or something like Monastery Swiftspear works in a Delver shell because we already want spells en masse.
Plus the 'not drawing Lynx' scenario extends to Lynx getting killed. Ok, our creatures die to removal, but how much we want to go down a path that makes the rest of our deck worse (read land heavy with no manipulation) if there's a chance people adjust to Jeskai storm by running more early removal for dorks?
Summ up the videos, since they arent worth watching:
Vs Delver
Game one, opponent mulls to 5. He gets a lynx and wild in opener. Opponent makes a play error that costs him the game.
Game two, He wins, Not an intresting game, tons of removal, then ghor sticks.
Vs merfolk
Opponent disconnects, and jacob says he could have won regardless... Probably untrue because he had no access to red and no good creatures. If you cant burn the lords, and you have an island, your probably going to lose.
Vs Delver
Did he just say ooze was better, because he didnt want to play fleece mane lion? Really? Like... If you were ganna play a 3/3 it would be flinthoof boar... Just sayin... Anyways Opponent gets stuck on a single land and loses.
Game 2 Yet another one lander. He should have lost for fetching a basic forest turn 1 when your running helix, ape, and boros charm...
Vs Tron
Game 1 he races and wins.
Game 2 He drew 2 molten rain, so he won.
Well there you go guys. 4-0ed... 1 because of a disconnect, 1 due to a huge player error, and 2 due to a guy being stuck on a single land. Dunno if you could count that "good testing"
Ugh... yet another pointless Zoo video. I would like to say "ditto" to every negative comment I said about his last video, but to this current one.
I'd like like to see him to to innovate in a way that isn't stupid like piling lands in there.
Two things, Lantern:
1) Some Ascendancy Storm decks play 1 basic Island. Path isn't a guaranteed drawback-free kill.
2) Leyline of Sanctity is almost useless against Asc Storm. It doesn't stop the Storm player from drawing his library. The first Wish is still going to be for Ascendancy, Leyline doesn't change that - I'm not going to Wish for an answer to Leyline now and hope to draw into Ascendancy later, I'm going to Wish for Ascendancy now, start comboing off, and use one of the Wishes I drew midway through the combo to get rid of Leyline.
In general, you shouldn't use Leyline in your SB unless your deck has a weakness to discard. That's pretty much the only reason to play it. Leyline doesn't stop combo - they'll just find a bounce spell and kill you as per normal. Leyline stops discard - the earliest your opponent can play a discard spell is turn 1, and Leyline comes down on turn 0. Ad Nauseam for example is weak to discard, so it has Leyline in the SB. Bogle is another deck that can get wrecked by a T1 discard on the draw. For Bogle, Leyline also protects against Liliana's edict, so that's another plus.
I'm of the same opinion as Lantern, Charm is fine, but I didn't play any of the matchups where it was super useful. I wouldn't mind trying -2 Charm +1 Pridemage +1 Ghor Clan, but I think 4 Rampagers might be too many.
I do too. Its just better for the curve as a lower amount. I went from 4 charms, to 2, two pridemages, and then drop them all togather about a few months ago.
But also, video soon, but the testing Ive done with lynxs has been pretty postitive. It was getting in for quite a lot of damage.
Standard Mardu Midrange
Modern 4 Colour Delver, Naya Midrange
CommanderSidisi 1v1, Sliver Overlord, Intet the Dreamer, Mayael the Anima (shameless plug http://youtu.be/4zu4QRvGSo8)
I'm building a Cruel Control deck right now because Polluted Delta makes it a lot more viable and it's the only control deck that really appeals to me. As for the Jeskai Ascendancy deck, it doesn't really worry me since I run 4 Pridemages maindeck, and a good amount of removal, so unless they get the nut draw and kill me turn 2, I think I've got a pretty good game 1. If it gets really popular I may end up putting Rule of Law or Ethersworn Canonist in my sideboard, but I don't think it's come to that.
I know one guy there is going to play esper, but didn't have time to proxy it out. Don't know about grixis since its missing path and a good manland.
I have been playing the Jeskai deck on cockatrice and actually want to build it in real life, since it actually can kill on turn 2 if you have a prob. The deck is pretty dumb.
Although true, you can get 2-for-1'd on Ghor-clan rampager where as Ride Down...not so much.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
From what I think so far... If you get in as much damage prior to turn 4ish, and burn them out, you might win before they get all their peices togather, as their life total drips to around 10ish for turn 3.
Honestly? Wear/Tear is the one I've come to like the most. Ancient Grudge is good against Affinity, but nothing else that runs artifacts is affected as strongly by the two for one nature of the card and Affinity isn't a horrible match up for Zoo anyways. I think the two damage on Revelry is largely irrelevant. Sure it's "nice" and its versatile, but always having to pay two mana for it is rough given that you aren't really planning on going past three or four lands anyway. Wear/Tear on the other hand, has all the versatility of Revelry, with the option to be cheaper, and takes up less space in the board, which is what I feel is most important. The nature of Zoo's board is to play the cards with the most impact because whether we draw them or not is luck, so they have to be game changing when we do.
So I've been playing the deck... much to my dismay... inorder to understand how it funtions in an out. I'm at a point now where I can even tweek lists, so I'll call that a good stopping place for me. After that I played against it with my current zoo to find out more in terms of what it means for us.
What is jeskai ascendancy? Well it uses the card, along with mana dorks like birds of paradise, and 1 mana cantrips like Serum Visions to chain their deck togather, giving them a massive 20+/21 flying bird to kill with, and or Grapeshot. But they have other outs too. Got a blocker for the bird? Flesh//Blood still kills you. Got some way to null out the grape shot, they have things like Debt to the Deadless.
While this seems like a crappy combo at first glance isnt. What breaks it is Glittering Wish. For those of you unlegacyed, this deck is moderns FIRST wishboard deck. Yes its a real term. It means their side is actually apart of the deck construction. Unlike us, who rock a core with support cards and powerful sideboard cards to bring in against matches, wishboards sideboard is less of a sideboard and more of a breadbox. They use it as a real utility belt and find answers to whatever problem they need.
For example, if you mull to find layline of sancity, turning off grapeshot, they can find card]Debt to the Deadless[/card] and kill you anyways. Or get a Golgari Charm, break it, than kill you.
It also means while the deck, as Izzet mage explains, was a 4/12 deck (its a 2 card combo engine, ascendancy + dork) is now a 7/12 (3 ascendancies main, 1 side to wish for), giving more redundancy. The result is a fairly consistant combo, that can win on turn 2 rarely, turn 3 off and on, and turn 4 always. But it's not unbeatable. Heres how you can beat it!
1. Kill all the dorks.
This ones got a bit of a problem. Theres a lot of dorks, and they can play more. Its not the best plan, and it wont turn them off forever, but luckly zoo backs its game with a short clock and the slow down should be enough. Secondly they also run Sylvian Caritad Who we cant kill... so thats an issue too. If your going to do this, you need to get some action on the board first. Dont bolt the bird right away, nacatl. Get the clock going before you ping away. If they have the turn 2 kill, it aint ganna matter. Secondly, if they rock a Sylvian Caritad next, time to turn on full race mode. Just get in as much damage on the short run and add pressure. Bolt the face, not dorks now. This will force them to go off, and give a chance for fizzleing.
Again, killing all the dudes is much easier if you have a grim lavamancer, Fiery Justice or volcanic fallout/ pyroclasm in the side. Also worth noting, they dont play basics. Path is a 1 mana exile spell.
2. Break ascendancy
Pridemage, destructive revelry, wear//tear, natrualize, deglamer, Krosan Grip, whatever you got that kills an enchantment, works here. Not its not the end of the world for them, but its a major set back. It forces them either to find a way to deal with it from wishing (costing them extra mana then they have early if they rush it) or it makes them find a new one which is awesome for us.
3. Apply pressure and hope they melt
The deck still falters. its more constant than you'd think, but it still gets bad hands and bad draws. You might be able to win by simply attacking them and putting them on a 4 turn clock. If they start blocking with dorks, your probably going to win.
4. Hate on the combo.
You can just aim to hate on the combo. Some of these work well to lesser or greater degrees.
Thalia- is only good if they have one dork. Shes good against storm... but here she gets cancled out by the second dork. Dont get me wrong, shes still better than nothing.
Linvala- 4 mana is a lot... and we have to not be dead by then, but its gg for them generally if she lands.
Angel's Grace- Narrow card for sure, but its good game if you catch them on it. casted, they cant kill you in responce because of the splitsecond, and it forces them to empty their pool with most of the library exhausted.
Layline of Sanctity- Again, they can beat it through an attacking bird or debt or breaking it with a wished answer... but forcing them to use a wish on it means they need to draw said wish, and it also means a wish in their hand becomes less good, as it cant just be a ascendancy and call it a day. If you have it in the board, use it, but I wouldnt mull for it if you had too.
Gaddock TeegNot the best card in the world, but if its a version running a X kill condition, it works. It also stops treasure cruise, which is nice as thats the card that makes this deck work aside from glittering wish.
Unified will/Swan song/mana titheA one trick pony... but a game win is a game win. They arent expecting a zoo deck to counter them, so they probably will just go for it without wish. That being said they can wish for gutteral response to counter it. Counter the ascendancy, not the wish for ascendancy.
Eidilon of the rhetoric/ Rule of law/ Eidolon of the Great Revel/ethersworn cannonist Ding ding ding, you win! They have no good way to deal with these. They can wish for answers... but then it either hurts them or is all they can do for one turn. Either way, its a MAJOR speed bump, and you're not likely to win.
Spirit of the Labyrinth Also more or less kills them. Same as the above.
Nevermore and the like: Its a lot of mana, and a weird choice, but it works.
Chalice of the void set to 1. Ya know, if your freakin' insane. But hey, what eves. It doesnt KILL the deck, but it makes a headache for them. Its totally an option to do turn 1 nacatl, turn 2 chalaice. Don't know why youd have it. Just kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel here...
You might see it at fmn. If you do, make them do the whole combo. I'm not really promoting being a metaphorical dick, but it is a full deck combo, meaning it very realistically can go to time, and if they can't win fast enough, thats not your problem. Be nice and give them full priority, let them shortcut if they ask to, but make them finish. They might fizzle, just make sure they are doing everything correctly, and ask them to explain things if you have too, or call a judge over if you want to ensure everything is going correctly.
I ain't going to talk about the ban hammer here, as its against our rules, but let me just say, this smells a lot like eggs.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
"The deck was getting flooded alot when I last recorded Modern zoo for channel fireball (ya know that list that was pure crap) so I decided to go up to 24 lands, and just cut all my utlity lands for horizon canopy. That should work.
Stop... Just stop jacob wilson. Aggro zoo with 24 lands, 4 oozes and 4 Ghorclans? Are you attempting to be midrange or zoo... Because you're ganna have to pick one... Like my list is higher curved, I grant you I extended it... But its still clearly aggro...
vhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBDHWtbaCuA
No clue. Im sure people with the know how for the deck will do it faster, but everythings slows down at a gp level.
Vs Delver
Game one, opponent mulls to 5. He gets a lynx and wild in opener. Opponent makes a play error that costs him the game.
Game two, He wins, Not an intresting game, tons of removal, then ghor sticks.
Vs merfolk
Opponent disconnects, and jacob says he could have won regardless... Probably untrue because he had no access to red and no good creatures. If you cant burn the lords, and you have an island, your probably going to lose.
Vs Delver
Did he just say ooze was better, because he didnt want to play fleece mane lion? Really? Like... If you were ganna play a 3/3 it would be flinthoof boar... Just sayin... Anyways Opponent gets stuck on a single land and loses.
Game 2 Yet another one lander. He should have lost for fetching a basic forest turn 1 when your running helix, ape, and boros charm...
Vs Tron
Game 1 he races and wins.
Game 2 He drew 2 molten rain, so he won.
At a first glance it might be just a worse zoo. However being able to threaten "combo" kill (doran + ascendancy + any guy can get them down) might be slightly better than rampager.
Additionally I'd say Steppe Lynx is already a sketchy choice if Wilson thinks it needs heavier land count to support, since we're open to flooding but not drawing a Lynx. At least something like Experiment One encourages us to run more creatures (something we're already in the market for), or something like Monastery Swiftspear works in a Delver shell because we already want spells en masse.
Plus the 'not drawing Lynx' scenario extends to Lynx getting killed. Ok, our creatures die to removal, but how much we want to go down a path that makes the rest of our deck worse (read land heavy with no manipulation) if there's a chance people adjust to Jeskai storm by running more early removal for dorks?
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
Ugh... yet another pointless Zoo video. I would like to say "ditto" to every negative comment I said about his last video, but to this current one.
I'd like like to see him to to innovate in a way that isn't stupid like piling lands in there.
1) Some Ascendancy Storm decks play 1 basic Island. Path isn't a guaranteed drawback-free kill.
2) Leyline of Sanctity is almost useless against Asc Storm. It doesn't stop the Storm player from drawing his library. The first Wish is still going to be for Ascendancy, Leyline doesn't change that - I'm not going to Wish for an answer to Leyline now and hope to draw into Ascendancy later, I'm going to Wish for Ascendancy now, start comboing off, and use one of the Wishes I drew midway through the combo to get rid of Leyline.
In general, you shouldn't use Leyline in your SB unless your deck has a weakness to discard. That's pretty much the only reason to play it. Leyline doesn't stop combo - they'll just find a bounce spell and kill you as per normal. Leyline stops discard - the earliest your opponent can play a discard spell is turn 1, and Leyline comes down on turn 0. Ad Nauseam for example is weak to discard, so it has Leyline in the SB. Bogle is another deck that can get wrecked by a T1 discard on the draw. For Bogle, Leyline also protects against Liliana's edict, so that's another plus.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.