So essentially you play the same old UR Delver before khans...
- L
Because DTT has no effect on this archetype in the slightest?
If you think that a 'couple' of cards can push an archetype over the top you don't know what consistency is...
- L
A lot of us played the deck pre-Khans, and let me put something in perspective for you.
The deck runs so many Cantrips that changing your deck by 3-5 cards makes a HUGE difference, especially when those cards read "Draw 3 cards" for 1 mana, or Forbidden Memories for 2.
After testing both versions, the Snapcaster/Dig Through Time version gives you more game across the entire field. The only reason that the Monastery Swiftspear version is more popular on MODO is due to the "MODO Motif". This is, play the cheapest most aggressive deck possible to allow me to duo queue and maximize my profit and minimize my thought process. This is the mind of a grinder.
IRL Magic, we can't duo queue. Therefore you have to ask yourself. Sure, adding Monastery Swiftspear increases the power, but at what cost? What happens if you fall behind even slightly? Then your top decking 1/2 haste creatures rather than Snaps, Counters or Interactive Spells.
What happens when you top deck treasure cruise over dig through time? Drawing 3 cards is awesome, but what if its 2 lands! Dig gives you the option to GET WHAT YOU WANT.
I played it before khans so i know what i'm talking about, and i assure you that 2 card doesn't change a deck, 8 cards do.
We are talking of two different deck i think. snap and DTT scream control to me, or at least midrange; pack a couple of geist and you have a deck. UWR midrange is the deck you are searching for, guaranteed (and maybe you are right in this MODO meta ).
Tempo UR delver is a different thing.
Also you example it's pretty useless: what if you oppo has 8 land and you draw a mana leak or a spell pierce? is it better than a 1/2 that could become easily a 3/4?
- L
I'd say that the deck that he is looking for is WUR Delver, not WUR Midrange.
I don't think it's that clear cut as Snap+DTT or Spear+TC. I've been playing with Snap+TC and I know others have as well. Having so few lands and fairly redundant cards makes me think 3 random cards is better than choose 2 of 7. Only paying U over UU is a bit of a bonus.
Dig is much more powerful, I'm just hesitant to go with Dig though because it's much harder to cast under a Blood Moon.
Because DTT has no effect on this archetype in the slightest?
If you think that a 'couple' of cards can push an archetype over the top you don't know what consistency is...
- L
A lot of us played the deck pre-Khans, and let me put something in perspective for you.
The deck runs so many Cantrips that changing your deck by 3-5 cards makes a HUGE difference, especially when those cards read "Draw 3 cards" for 1 mana, or Forbidden Memories for 2.
After testing both versions, the Snapcaster/Dig Through Time version gives you more game across the entire field. The only reason that the Monastery Swiftspear version is more popular on MODO is due to the "MODO Motif". This is, play the cheapest most aggressive deck possible to allow me to duo queue and maximize my profit and minimize my thought process. This is the mind of a grinder.
IRL Magic, we can't duo queue. Therefore you have to ask yourself. Sure, adding Monastery Swiftspear increases the power, but at what cost? What happens if you fall behind even slightly? Then your top decking 1/2 haste creatures rather than Snaps, Counters or Interactive Spells.
What happens when you top deck treasure cruise over dig through time? Drawing 3 cards is awesome, but what if its 2 lands! Dig gives you the option to GET WHAT YOU WANT.
I played it before khans so i know what i'm talking about, and i assure you that 2 card doesn't change a deck, 8 cards do.
We are talking of two different deck i think. snap and DTT scream control to me, or at least midrange; pack a couple of geist and you have a deck. UWR midrange is the deck you are searching for, guaranteed (and maybe you are right in this MODO meta ).
Tempo UR delver is a different thing.
Also you example it's pretty useless: what if you oppo has 8 land and you draw a mana leak or a spell pierce? is it better than a 1/2 that could become easily a 3/4?
- L
I'd say that the deck that he is looking for is WUR Delver, not WUR Midrange.
Dunno, as i said i feel like snap and DTT are more mid/late oriented than tempo/early, so geist and midrange seem a logic fit, but if you want to sponsor your pet deck go on.
- L
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"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
The deck putting up more results might have something to do with a 1500% increase in it's share if the metagame - we don't know what the previous list would've done with a similar meta share so we can only deduce that there's a correlation between the deck seeing more play and the deck putting up more results.
I'll also be very clear ~ time and time again we've seen that the early mtgo lists and SCG lists are not optimal. I've given last seasons Boros Burn in standard as a very telling example.
That's not to say Swidtsoear isn't a playable variant; only to infirm that saying the Snapcaster version that might only be 0.5% of the meta isn't putting up the sane results means nothing.
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Good to see others are catching on that Snapcaster is still good. So here's a question, Dig is the more powerful card but it's also much harder to cast. Why is it Dig+Snap or Swiftspear+TC? Why not Snap+TC?
So far from all the lists, I haven't seen anyone play Dig through time. I've only heard about everyone playing treasure cruise and eliminating snapcaster mages. And for the person who is listing Keranos and Batterskull??? Are you crazy? 5 mana is too much.
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I think snapcaster is still good in the deck along side Swiftspears. Just not as a 4 of. My current build which I've used at the past 3 modern FNM's (winning 1st place each time) uses this creature build.
4 delver
4 Swiftspears
3 young peezy
2 snaps
I think the full 4 conflicts to much with the delve cards. But I think 6 cards interacting with the GY is a fair number.
If you think that a 'couple' of cards can push an archetype over the top you don't know what consistency is...
- L
A lot of us played the deck pre-Khans, and let me put something in perspective for you.
The deck runs so many Cantrips that changing your deck by 3-5 cards makes a HUGE difference, especially when those cards read "Draw 3 cards" for 1 mana, or Forbidden Memories for 2.
After testing both versions, the Snapcaster/Dig Through Time version gives you more game across the entire field. The only reason that the Monastery Swiftspear version is more popular on MODO is due to the "MODO Motif". This is, play the cheapest most aggressive deck possible to allow me to duo queue and maximize my profit and minimize my thought process. This is the mind of a grinder.
IRL Magic, we can't duo queue. Therefore you have to ask yourself. Sure, adding Monastery Swiftspear increases the power, but at what cost? What happens if you fall behind even slightly? Then your top decking 1/2 haste creatures rather than Snaps, Counters or Interactive Spells.
What happens when you top deck treasure cruise over dig through time? Drawing 3 cards is awesome, but what if its 2 lands! Dig gives you the option to GET WHAT YOU WANT.
I played it before khans so i know what i'm talking about, and i assure you that 2 card doesn't change a deck, 8 cards do.
We are talking of two different deck i think. snap and DTT scream control to me, or at least midrange; pack a couple of geist and you have a deck. UWR midrange is the deck you are searching for, guaranteed (and maybe you are right in this MODO meta ).
Tempo UR delver is a different thing.
Also you example it's pretty useless: what if you oppo has 8 land and you draw a mana leak or a spell pierce? is it better than a 1/2 that could become easily a 3/4?
- L
I'd say that the deck that he is looking for is WUR Delver, not WUR Midrange.
Dunno, as i said i feel like snap and DTT are more mid/late oriented than tempo/early, so geist and midrange seem a logic fit, but if you want to sponsor your pet deck go on.
- L
While several WUR Delver players (primarily Sasky and Fargsby) are running Swiftspear, CurdBros, BlackDog, and I are still on the Geist plan. We aren't running Dig Through Time though.
Well, only been playing this deck for a couple weeks now (outside of the Delver decks back in Standard) so I'm still figuring out what works and what doesn't. Here's my latest attempt. Trying something with the sideboard, on the one hand the shocks are wasting 2 slots when they could be MB but on the other hand I found I really hated drawing my Breeding Pool when it was MB but there was nothing for the green to cast. Basically, I'm trying to splash a third color when the match calls for it, either having more threats against control or more aggressive artifact/enchantment destruction when necessary while still keeping the G1 advantage of being two colors.
I think time will tell if Dig Through Time is stronger than Treasure Cruise but I'm inclined to believe in my somewhat limited testing that if a deck can reliably meet the UU and values instant speed than Dig is stronger. I think it would help out in the mirror and gives this deck a much stronger late game.
It's possible that isn't where Delver wants to be, but I think that it gives this deck a very strong late game compared to some decks built on having a good late game.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
A lot of us played the deck pre-Khans, and let me put something in perspective for you.
The deck runs so many Cantrips that changing your deck by 3-5 cards makes a HUGE difference, especially when those cards read "Draw 3 cards" for 1 mana, or Forbidden Memories for 2.
After testing both versions, the Snapcaster/Dig Through Time version gives you more game across the entire field. The only reason that the Monastery Swiftspear version is more popular on MODO is due to the "MODO Motif". This is, play the cheapest most aggressive deck possible to allow me to duo queue and maximize my profit and minimize my thought process. This is the mind of a grinder.
IRL Magic, we can't duo queue. Therefore you have to ask yourself. Sure, adding Monastery Swiftspear increases the power, but at what cost? What happens if you fall behind even slightly? Then your top decking 1/2 haste creatures rather than Snaps, Counters or Interactive Spells.
What happens when you top deck treasure cruise over dig through time? Drawing 3 cards is awesome, but what if its 2 lands! Dig gives you the option to GET WHAT YOU WANT.
I played it before khans so i know what i'm talking about, and i assure you that 2 card doesn't change a deck, 8 cards do.
We are talking of two different deck i think. snap and DTT scream control to me, or at least midrange; pack a couple of geist and you have a deck. UWR midrange is the deck you are searching for, guaranteed (and maybe you are right in this MODO meta ).
Tempo UR delver is a different thing.
Also you example it's pretty useless: what if you oppo has 8 land and you draw a mana leak or a spell pierce? is it better than a 1/2 that could become easily a 3/4?
- L
I'd say that the deck that he is looking for is WUR Delver, not WUR Midrange.
Dunno, as i said i feel like snap and DTT are more mid/late oriented than tempo/early, so geist and midrange seem a logic fit, but if you want to sponsor your pet deck go on.
- L
While several WUR Delver players (primarily Sasky and Fargsby) are running Swiftspear, CurdBros, BlackDog, and I are still on the Geist plan. We aren't running Dig Through Time though.
I've actually switched to UR delver-pyro-snaps-DTT. I like it much more and have been getting better results (e.g. Came in 2nd in an event on saturday).
I played it before khans so i know what i'm talking about, and i assure you that 2 card doesn't change a deck, 8 cards do.
We are talking of two different deck i think. snap and DTT scream control to me, or at least midrange; pack a couple of geist and you have a deck. UWR midrange is the deck you are searching for, guaranteed (and maybe you are right in this MODO meta ).
Tempo UR delver is a different thing.
Also you example it's pretty useless: what if you oppo has 8 land and you draw a mana leak or a spell pierce? is it better than a 1/2 that could become easily a 3/4?
- L
I'd say that the deck that he is looking for is WUR Delver, not WUR Midrange.
Dunno, as i said i feel like snap and DTT are more mid/late oriented than tempo/early, so geist and midrange seem a logic fit, but if you want to sponsor your pet deck go on.
- L
While several WUR Delver players (primarily Sasky and Fargsby) are running Swiftspear, CurdBros, BlackDog, and I are still on the Geist plan. We aren't running Dig Through Time though.
I've actually switched to UR delver-pyro-snaps-DTT. I like it much more and have been getting better results (e.g. Came in 2nd in an event on saturday).
Also worth noticing, there were 3 other delver lists, 4CCC (me), an UWR with Jeskai Ascendancy and RUG Delver.
Those are the results from the Leiden GPT and resembles the meta I'm expecting in Delft next weekend. Are you sure they were all on the swiftspear plan? The local people I talked to and played against so far were all on the LSV plan.
When I saw this meta-analysis I was shocked. It has changed a lot and I fear for a lack of diversity. Even though I play UR Delver (and have been before Khans) I'd like to see treasure cruise banned.
The only reason that the Monastery Swiftspear version is more popular on MODO is due to the "MODO Motif". This is, play the cheapest most aggressive deck possible to allow me to duo queue and maximize my profit and minimize my thought process. This is the mind of a grinder.
IRL Magic, we can't duo queue. Therefore you have to ask yourself. Sure, adding Monastery Swiftspear increases the power, but at what cost? What happens if you fall behind even slightly? Then your top decking 1/2 haste creatures rather than Snaps, Counters or Interactive Spells.
Can anyone give their thoughts on my deck, haven't tested it since I haven't been able to buy the onslaught fetches. Would like to hear your thoughts. TIA.
A classic UWr control deck or something like blood moon can beat this deck, especially the aggro version. They counter your stuff, draw a bunch of cards, bolt your delver, sweep the board, smash with colonnade, shackles your pyro, sphinx rev for life, all the stuff they love doing. I've actually had real solid success against UR delver with a time warp/taking turns deck.
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Modern UB Tezzerator UBW Gifts B 8Rack
Legacy RB Goblins
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I'd say that the deck that he is looking for is WUR Delver, not WUR Midrange.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Dig is much more powerful, I'm just hesitant to go with Dig though because it's much harder to cast under a Blood Moon.
Dunno, as i said i feel like snap and DTT are more mid/late oriented than tempo/early, so geist and midrange seem a logic fit, but if you want to sponsor your pet deck go on.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
I'll also be very clear ~ time and time again we've seen that the early mtgo lists and SCG lists are not optimal. I've given last seasons Boros Burn in standard as a very telling example.
That's not to say Swidtsoear isn't a playable variant; only to infirm that saying the Snapcaster version that might only be 0.5% of the meta isn't putting up the sane results means nothing.
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
Because you can Dig for Snap + Bolt.
4 delver
4 Swiftspears
3 young peezy
2 snaps
I think the full 4 conflicts to much with the delve cards. But I think 6 cards interacting with the GY is a fair number.
While several WUR Delver players (primarily Sasky and Fargsby) are running Swiftspear, CurdBros, BlackDog, and I are still on the Geist plan. We aren't running Dig Through Time though.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
4 Island
1 Mountain
Creatures 12
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Treasure Cruise
2 Forked Bolt
2 Quicken
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
1 Spell Snare
2 Vapor Snag
2 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Smash to Smithereens
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Spellskite
1 Combust
It's possible that isn't where Delver wants to be, but I think that it gives this deck a very strong late game compared to some decks built on having a good late game.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I've actually switched to UR delver-pyro-snaps-DTT. I like it much more and have been getting better results (e.g. Came in 2nd in an event on saturday).
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Which event?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Oh ok, I thought that you meant a big event.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Sasky have you posted your list somewhere?
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
3 Delver lists in the top 8
Second place: 2 Monastery Swiftspear, 2 Snapcaster Mage
Third place: 4 Monastery Swiftspear, 2 Snapcaster Mage
Eighth place: 4 Monastery Swiftspear, 0 Snapcaster Mage
Those are the results from the Leiden GPT and resembles the meta I'm expecting in Delft next weekend. Are you sure they were all on the swiftspear plan? The local people I talked to and played against so far were all on the LSV plan.
When I saw this meta-analysis I was shocked. It has changed a lot and I fear for a lack of diversity. Even though I play UR Delver (and have been before Khans) I'd like to see treasure cruise banned.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678I think that this is relevant.
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
4x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Young Pyromancer
3x Snapcaster Mage
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Serum Visions
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Remand
3x Treasure Cruise
2x Spell Snare
2x Spell Pierce
2x Vapor Snag
2x Forked Bolt
1x Mutagenic Growth
3x Island
2x Mountain
1x Sulfur Falls
4x Polluted Delta / Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta / Flooded Strand
2x Wooded Foothills/ Bloodstained Mire
2x Blood Moon
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Combust
2x Shattering Spree
1x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Echoing Truth
2x Dragon's Claw
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins